Colts Should Convert Either Green or Geathers into an ILB

[Defjamz26]

One of the biggest issues with our secondary is I feel like we basically have 2 young box safeties. While Geathers can cover short distances, Green can't cover at all. We don't need 2 SS's. I think one of them should be converted like Buccannon and Barron. Then draft a true FS, or leave Butler there for another 2 years while you groom someone.

 

Geathers is the best tackler and hitter on the team so I think he'd excel there. He could be your Will who you won't be nervous about leaving in coverage and then you draft a Raekwon McMillan who can move around.

 

Green is really fast and can go sideline to sideline although his tackling needs work. He'd be fine as a Mike LB who could go into zone coverage because Id never put him one on one. But you can have him just play the run and blitz.

[dudeski]

no thanks

 

lets get lbers that can play lber

 

and safeties that can play safety.  

 

 

[Smonroe]

Geathers already plays a nickel lb, right?  I don't know if either of those two could handle playing LB full time without injury.  But working them at LBs in pass situations?  If we had better talent at DBs, maybe.  

 

Green has potential.  I wasn't keen on the draft pick after last years NC game, but he may just need more experience.  

[NorthernBlue]

Green was a Corner at college I'm pretty sure. They are converting him full time to safety. So converting him again wouldn't be in best interest to the team.

 

Geathers, maybe but like some have said, not sure how Geathers can handle playing WILL full time without getting hurt often. I'd rather just draft and develop LBers who are better fit for the role.

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

One of the biggest issues with our secondary is I feel like we basically have 2 young box safeties. While Geathers can cover short distances, Green can't cover at all. We don't need 2 SS's. I think one of them should be converted like Buccannon and Barron. Then draft a true FS, or leave Butler there for another 2 years while you groom someone.

 

Geathers is the best tackler and hitter on the team so I think he'd excel there. He could be your Will who you won't be nervous about leaving in coverage and then you draft a Raekwon McMillan who can move around.

 

Green is really fast and can go sideline to sideline although his tackling needs work. He'd be fine as a Mike LB who could go into zone coverage because Id never put him one on one. But you can have him just play the run and blitz.

 

Green is not a box safety.     Not in his wildest dreams.

 

Remember,  the speculation by a number of posters and media outlets when we drafted him is that we wanted to convert him to Corner.

 

If not a Safety,  Corner is the likely spot for him.

 

He doesn't have the body to become a linebacker.    Ever.

 

He's being taught how to play safety in the NFL  just the way Le'Raven Clark is being taught how to play tackle in the NFL.        Welcome to the NFL in 2017.       Sometimes you have to take raw talent and develop it on your own.      And that's TJ Green.

 

[UKColt13]

I'd rather draft actual linebackers. 

 

Geathers and Green are likely our safeties of the future. 

 

Between DQ, EJax, Morrison and a draftee/FA or 2, we should be able to find at least 2 competent ILBs.

[Dustin]

They should convert Green to the waiver-wire.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

They should convert Green to the waiver-wire.

^This^ that's what you get in a second rounder picked by Grigson.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

^This^ that's what you get in a second rounder picked by Grigson.

 

 

Green's play was predictable.      And, of course,  Dustin knows this.

 

But his posts all have the same tone because he posts with his agenda.         When you become a hammer,  everything looks like a nail.

 

I'm not promising Green will work out.     I'm only saying that they took him for his raw tools which can't be coached and they hope to teach him on the job.       Pagano signed off on it,  and so did Irsay.

[mahagga73]

Venturi said Green couldn't tackle a blocking dummy last week. 

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Green's play was predictable.      And, of course,  Dustin knows this.

 

But his posts all have the same tone because he posts with his agenda.         When you become a hammer,  everything looks like a nail.

 

I'm not promising Green will work out.     I'm only saying that they took him for his raw tools which can't be coached and they hope to teach him on the job.       Pagano signed off on it,  and so did Irsay.

That's why when you have sucked at drafting as bad as Grigson has go with a safer pick not a project in the 2nd round imo 

[MTC]

I feel like TJ Green is too small to be an ILB.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

26 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

One of the biggest issues with our secondary is I feel like we basically have 2 young box safeties. While Geathers can cover short distances, Green can't cover at all. We don't need 2 SS's. I think one of them should be converted like Buccannon and Barron. Then draft a true FS, or leave Butler there for another 2 years while you groom someone.

 

Geathers is the best tackler and hitter on the team so I think he'd excel there. He could be your Will who you won't be nervous about leaving in coverage and then you draft a Raekwon McMillan who can move around.

 

Green is really fast and can go sideline to sideline although his tackling needs work. He'd be fine as a Mike LB who could go into zone coverage because Id never put him one on one. But you can have him just play the run and blitz.

 

Green is 6'2" 205 and pretty long.  He has 4.3 speed, so bulking him up would likely take away arguably his best physical asset.  No way should he be converted to an ILB.  He has a lot of coverage 'potential', but needs to learn the game more before that may be realized (let's hope he can live up to his potential).  He is really built and has the physical skills of a true FS, whereas Geathers is built and has the physical skills of a SS. 

 

A lot of talk about how Green's size/speed could potentially be used to put him in situations to man-up against some of the bigger TE's (Gronk, etc.) in certain packages, and we've already seen Geathers being used a lot in a hybrid role on Nickel packages. 

 

These guys were both pretty raw when we drafted them -- Geathers seemed to make a big leap (aside from injuries) in terms of learning the NFL game from rookie year to year 2.  Let's hope Green can do the same.  If he can, we really should have prototypical combo of FS/SS in Green/Geathers for a while come.

 

Both Adams and Butler are unrestricted FAs as of right now.  IMO, it would be nice to bring one or both of them back, just in case Green doesn't make the leap from athlete to football player in year two.  Having viable 3rd and 4th safety options will also allow for both Geathers and Green to be used in hybrid roles in certain packages.

 

All that said, I think it would be a bad idea to try to convert either of them to a full time LBer. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dustin said:

They should convert Green to the waiver-wire.

The guy has freakish physical skills.  Myself, like you and probably many others, may have found going for him in round 2 to be a bit of a reach based on how raw he is as a football player, but at this point there isn't really (IMO) any need to wish anything for Green other than for him to develop and learn how to use his speed and physical skills to become a solid football player. 

 

He went to Clemson as a WR and was converted to safety as a sophomore. As a junior, he won the starting job on a very solid team and produced very well (95 tackles, 5.5 for loss, 2 forced fumbles, 3 pass break ups).  It does seem like a reach to go after a guy who started only one year (and came out as an underclassman) in round 2, but his physical traits are evident.  He was used almost as a 'sweeper' in Clemson, mostly playing deep coverage and as a speedster to disallow big plays from occuring.  His scouting reports pretty much all say he's got the physical talent, but will need some time on the bench watching to really learn how to be a football player (and not just an athlete) at the NFL level.

[RockThatBlue]

Green could never play linebacker, but he has potential. Landon Collins was trash last year, and this year he was rated one of the best safties in the NFL by just about everybody. If Collins can turn it around, theres no reason Green can't. Green is an even better athlete than Collins too. Green was never expected to be really good this year anyway, unfortunately injuries to Geathers and Adams forced him to play more. If you expected him to be good out of the gate, your expectations were a bit unrealistic, to say the least.

 

I think we should keep using Geathers how we already do. Hes basically already used as a linebacker. 

[krunk]

I can agree with using Geathers as a WLB. Lets stop acting like we've never seen a safety converted to linebacker. Especially a guy who is already 220lbs. He probably could easily add 15 more lbs on a 6'2" frame. It ain't like he'd be the only 6'2" linebacker in the league. I'm down with that move if Ted decides he wants to go that route. He already said he hasn't ruled it out.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

13 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Green could never play linebacker, but he has potential. Landon Collins was trash last year, and this year he was rated one of the best safties in the NFL by just about everybody. If Collins can turn it around, theres no reason Green can't. Green is an even better athlete than Collins too. Green was never expected to be really good this year anyway, unfortunately injuries to Geathers and Adams forced him to play more. If you expected him to be good out of the gate, your expectations were a bit unrealistic, to say the least.

 

I think we should keep using Geathers how we already do. Hes basically already used as a linebacker. 

Collins rookie season was not trash, it was miles better than Greens. 

Let's just get some actual LBs.

[krunk]

I cant see Green at LB other than on passing downs. Drafting another safety would give us a lot of versatility on passing downs i will say that. This team really prefers to use safeties to answer pass coverage match up issues any way. Id be down with a Hooker or Adams if we did it.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's why when you have sucked at drafting as bad as Grigson has go with a safer pick not a project in the 2nd round imo 

 

Perhaps you didn't read the last sentence.

 

Pagano and Irsay both signed off on this.       This was an organizational decision.      

 

It has worked so far with Clark.     And it's WAY too soon to know if it will work or not with Green.

 

But this was not done by Grigson alone.     Everyone was in on this.

 

 

[CR91]

well geathers is already used like a LBer in certain packages

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Green could never play linebacker, but he has potential. Landon Collins was trash last year, and this year he was rated one of the best safties in the NFL by just about everybody. If Collins can turn it around, theres no reason Green can't. Green is an even better athlete than Collins too. Green was never expected to be really good this year anyway, unfortunately injuries to Geathers and Adams forced him to play more. If you expected him to be good out of the gate, your expectations were a bit unrealistic, to say the least.

 

I think we should keep using Geathers how we already do. Hes basically already used as a linebacker. 

 

Landon Collins was trash in 2015?

 

You may be right,  but I don't recall reading that anywhere.

 

And all we read here on this website were posters saying "Look,  we could've had Landon Collins, and we took Phillip Dorsett!" 

 

Any chance you're confusing him with someone else?

 

[krunk]

With Green there is a lot of upside though. With a little molding he can play about 3 different positions ranging from Dime linebacker to safety to cornerback situationally or eventually full time. I can see why they picked him as they valued the versatility. You dont find many safeties that have the natural ability to do all that. He needs to understand whats going on on the field though. We will see what 2017 looks like. 2016 wasn't good but many expected a learning curve.

[Buddy Lee]

47 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

I'd rather draft actual linebackers. 

 

Geathers and Green are likely our safeties of the future. 

 

Between DQ, EJax, Morrison and a draftee/FA or 2, we should be able to find at least 2 competent ILBs.

I agree that we. need to obtain a couple of starting caliber ILBs. Opposing teams  can chew our D up by throwing across the middle. Travis Kelce etc. Because neither DQ nor Morrison can cover. I don't have an opinion on Poundcake yet.

[RockThatBlue]

Maybe trash is a strong word, but he was not very good, especially in coverage (similar to Green)

 

My point is its too early to give up on him. I had my frustrations with him, especially the really dumb penalties, but it would be foolish to give up after one year. Plenty of players sucked in their rookie year and got better anyway. If he gets good coaching, I think he has a ton of potential. 

[Superman]

Green has major issues, he plays out of control, lacks discipline, and can't track the ball in the air. He is very raw. The plan had to be to work in him gradually, have him play in certain packages where his athleticism could be used without exposing his weaknesses.

 

Instead, he started in Week 1. 

 

It makes no sense to write him off after his rookie season. He needs a lot of coaching, and he needs to get himself under control and form tackle instead of lowering his head and trying to hit stick. If he refines his game, he can be a playmaker. If not, he'll be LaRon Landry, sans steroids.

[chrisfarley]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

They should convert Green to the waiver-wire.

Ouch.  You see no position for him on the 53?  At our current talent level?

[WarGhost21]

Jeez. Is this forum always this harsh on early draft picks going into year 2 that didn't perform well in the first year?

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

Jeez. Is this forum always this harsh on early draft picks going into year 2 that didn't perform well in the first year?

Yes

[Colts_Fan12]

55 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Perhaps you didn't read the last sentence.

 

Pagano and Irsay both signed off on this.       This was an organizational decision.      

 

It has worked so far with Clark.     And it's WAY too soon to know if it will work or not with Green.

 

But this was not done by Grigson alone.     Everyone was in on this.

 

 

So they all suck at drafting then?

[Indyfan4life]

19 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Jeez. Is this forum always this harsh on early draft picks going into year 2 that didn't perform well in the first year?

Sadly. Everyone thinks we should have day one superstars in every position of every draft. 

[UKColt13]

1 hour ago, Buddy Lee said:

I agree that we. need to obtain a couple of starting caliber ILBs. Opposing teams  can chew our D up by throwing across the middle. Travis Kelce etc. Because neither DQ nor Morrison can cover. I don't have an opinion on Poundcake yet.

 

So far it seems to be that DQ and Morrison have the instincts but lack the athleticism to cover properly, and vice versa for EJax.

[mahagga73]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

They should convert Green to the waiver-wire.

If Grigson knew how to build a defense he would be on the practice squad. 

[NewColtsFan]

50 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

So they all suck at drafting then?

 

And yet they had a really good draft?      How did that happen?

 

Maybe they see a picture that's different than the one you see?

 

Maybe they're looking at more than just 2016.     They're trying to develop talent that will play important roles for them in 17 and 18 and 19 and so on....

 

Your arguments basically sound like this....     "I'm a fan and I know more and better than the Owner, the General Manager and the Head Coach."   

 

I don't think that's a strong argument for anyone.....

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

59 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Jeez. Is this forum always this harsh on early draft picks going into year 2 that didn't perform well in the first year?

Yup!  6th round picks who don't produce in year one are labeled "busts". 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Now to the topic...I prefer Geathers in the role he is now where he plays LB in the nickel and is a Safety on other downs.  But that is just me and I build homes for a living, not football teams

 

[Colts_Fan12]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

And yet they had a really good draft?      How did that happen?

 

Maybe they see a picture that's different than the one you see?

 

Maybe they're looking at more than just 2016.     They're trying to develop talent that will play important roles for them in 17 and 18 and 19 and so on....

 

Your arguments basically sound like this....     "I'm a fan and I know more and better than the Owner, the General Manager and the Head Coach."   

 

I don't think that's a strong argument for anyone.....

 

I dont get the whole "you are a fan so your automatically dumber then Grigson and Pagano" thing it's sad that people on a msg board woukd have put together better drafts then the jack *** being paid millions. 

[twfish]

No, I beleive green can transform into a good free safety that can really hit. Aside this organization doesn't really care if one is free and one is strong

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I dont get the whole "you are a fan so your automatically dumber then Grigson and Pagano" thing it's sad that people on a msg board woukd have put together better drafts then the jack *** being paid millions. 

Very doubtful

[TheRustonRifle#7]

14 minutes ago, twfish said:

No, I beleive green can transform into a good free safety that can really hit. Aside this organization doesn't really care if one is free and one is strong

That is my opinion as well...

[Dark Superman]

If the Colts can land someone like Eric Berry or Hooker or Adams in the draft, you could see Geathers dropping down into the box and playing more of a LB role for the Colts. TJ Green showed some flashes that he could be a solid player for us, but he's still very raw and Geathers is without a doubt our best safety.

 

Would really love to see the Colts draft Hooker, the guy is a Ed Reed clone and would be a huge playmaker for us if he falls to 14.

[Dark Superman]

The Colts need to add another safety and continue to develop Green and Geathers, but I think we need to add a proven or a stud in the draft and allow Geathers to roam the field.