Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker

[Coltsfan0112]

Hypothetically speaking, say if Hooker or Adams falls to us would you pull the trigger? I know Grigson does BPA and Adams and Hooker are top 10 from what the scouts say. Adams has gotten Eric Berry comps and Hooker has gotten Ed Reed comps. I know pass rush is a bigger need but these guys can be Blue chip type players. I know they drafted T.j green and he obviously needs a lot of work so would you think they move Geathers to Ilb if it did happen? I think it's interesting because it could happen.

[krunk]

I'd be elated to have either one to be honest.  Assuming we went that route.

[jshipp23]

No..I think Desmond King could be an Ed Reed type Safety or play cb for us in the second..I like a guy who can play multiple positions..A good first 3 rounds for us would be Derek Barnett, Soloman Thomas in 1st, King or Vea in 2nd, and Foreman or Kamara in 3rd...I personally hope for Cook or Fournette in first and then McKinley, or Harris in 2nd, and Vea or Watt in 3rd...Hopefully we can get CB , ILB, NT in free agency...Lots of ways we could go and still knock it out of the park..We are in a VERY good position to make a major jump next year, and we might be the youngest team in the league by then...There is HOPE..

[jshipp23]

If we go Safety in 1st it has to be Peppers, and then we could convert him or Geathers to ILB based on who would most likely hold up better physically..Kill 2 birds with 1 stone...We draft a pure safety we still got to worry about ILB and if Geathers can hold up..We draft Peppers we have 2 guys who can play Safety or LB  ..Makes us more able to withstand injuries..

[Coltsfan0112]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

If we go Safety in 1st it has to be Peppers, and then we could convert him or Geathers to ILB based on who would most likely hold up better physically..Kill 2 birds with 1 stone...We draft a pure safety we still got to worry about ILB and if Geathers can hold up..We draft Peppers we have 2 guys who can play Safety or LB  ..Makes us more able to withstand injuries..

I'm not so high on Peppers, I like him but he's not a playmaker like Adams or Hooker. Those guys are some ball hawks

[throwing BBZ]

Never heard of them. How would they play in our front seven?

[DaColts85]

If the pick was just between those two as BPA I would go with Hooker.  Had a pretty good game against Clemson even though it was a beat down.  Has great ball hawking abilities that helps CB's over the top.

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I'm not so high on Peppers, I like him but he's not a playmaker like Adams or Hooker. Those guys are some ball hawks

To be fair to Peppers he played a lot of in the box safety and linebacker..If you look at the previous year he had like 10 pass breakups. ..I see him a a hybrid guy who can do both..If we go Hooker or Adams we will get a good player though for sure..

[DaColts85]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

To be fair to Peppees he played a lot of in the box safety and linebacker..If you look at the previous year he had like 10 pass breakups. ..I see him a a hybrid guy who can do both..If we go Hooker or Adams we will get a good player though for sure..

Peppers to me will be the next Deone Bucannon type guy or Mark Barron.  

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Peppers to me will be the next Deone Bucannon type guy or Mark Barron.  

Good comparison..Its basically a new position the Cardinals call it the "Moneymaker", makes receivers afraid to go over the middle..Buchanan and Kam Chancellor are these type guys..If we get Peppers Colts will have 2 with Geathers..I wouldn't mind this at all it brings that physicality and toughness we need..

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Good comparison..Its basically a new position the Cardinals call it the "Moneymaker", makes receivers afaid to go over the middle..Buchanan and Kam Chancellor are these type guys..If we get Peppers Colts will have 2 with Geathers..I wouldn't mind this at all it brings that physicality and toughness we need..

I understand what you would want but we also need a coverage guy.  If we have Geathers become this then having someone like Hooker back there would be great honestly.  I feel like that gives us two cover guys at different levels of the field.

[Boiler_Colt]

If either are there, yes, I think about it, but I don't think either will be. No way on Peppers, he is massively overrated.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

I understand what you would want but we also need a coverage guy.  If we have Geathers become this then having someone like Hooker back there would be great honestly.  I feel like that gives us two cover guys at different levels of the field.

Then you are basically giving up on Green already..That's fine, but I don't want to do that yet I think he is gonna be good...That's why King would be a good pick in 2nd because he could play FS for us till we can trust Green , then we can move King to CB once Green develops..

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

If either are there, yes, I think about it, but I don't think either will be. No way on Peppers, he is massively overrated.

Have you really watched Peppers? He isn't overrated, guys like him don't come around often..Just got to use him right..That's what coaches r paid to do..

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I understand what you would want but we also need a coverage guy.  If we have Geathers become this then having someone like Hooker back there would be great honestly.  I feel like that gives us two cover guys at different levels of the field.

You are right we need a coverage guy. The lack of beast coverage players on this team is disturbing.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Then you are basically giving up on Green already..That's fine, but I don't want to do that yet I think he is gonna be good...That's why King would be a good pick in 2nd because he could play FS for us till we can trust Green , then we can move King to CB once Green develops..

Yea I see what your saying now.  I would not give up on Green yet I was just thinking that if we picked out of the two discussed here then Green can work to get back on the field by becoming better.  Right now I think Hooker walks on to the field over him.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

Yea I see what your saying now.  I would not give up on Green yet I was just thinking that if we picked out of the two discussed here then Green can work to get back on the field by becoming better.  Right now I think Hooker walks on to the field over him.

He does right now for sure..But if Green starts to get it he will be scary...

[Boiler_Colt]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Have you really watched Peppers? He isn't overrated, guys like him don't come around often..Just got to use him right..That's what coaches r paid to do..

Yes, I have. I see a jack of all trades, master of none guy. Tell me what he does exceptionally well? Sure, he can play offense, defense, and special teams but he's not overly dominant at any of them. People are just enamored with his versatility. He's not good enough in coverage to be a full time safety and he's not big enough to be a full time linebacker. I for one would not spend the highest draft pick we've had since 2012 on a guy with no true position that you need to invent ways to use. At best he does what Geathers already does. There will be a better, less risky choice at 14/15.

[WarGhost21]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Have you really watched Peppers? He isn't overrated, guys like him don't come around often..Just got to use him right..That's what coaches r paid to do..

Peppers is an amazing athlete. He does a lot of things great. He isn't, however, a gamer. He isn't proficient in any one area, making it hard to figure out what to do with him. The reason he has gotten so much publicity is that he played in so many different positions. He played them all well, but he never excelled in any particular one. He is somewhat of a liability in coverage, and with Geathers being the same way, we need someone back there to cover. Green could definitely be that guy, but if the staff does decide to take a safety, Peppers would be lucky to make my top 3 options.

[krunk]

I'm down with the move if the plans become to move Geathers to ILB permanently.  Hooker or Adams are premium athletes and they know how to play the safety position.  Tandem of Jamal Adams and Green or Green and Hooker.

[jshipp23]

The way the things are going with injuries in the NFL now, I think guys who can do multiple things are very valuable...Belichik loves these kind of guys and has won a lot with them..

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Yes, I have. I see a jack of all trades, master of none guy. Tell me what he does exceptionally well? Sure, he can play offense, defense, and special teams but he's not overly dominant at any of them. People are just enamored with his versatility. He's not good enough in coverage to be a full time safety and he's not big enough to be a full time linebacker. I for one would not spend the highest draft pick we've had since 2012 on a guy with no true position that you need to invent ways to use. At best he does what Geathers already does. There will be a better, less risky choice at 14/15.

I think he can put on 15 lbs and be a hell of an inside linebacker...

[Coltsfan0112]

The reason why I think Adams and Hooker would be an excellent pick is that they play the run and pass very well. That is needed on this team. I'm not saying give up on Green but we can't assume he will get it. There is a chance he may never get it. But if he does it a good problem to have because then you'd have 2 that are excellent at both and move Geathers as a linebacker who can cover as well

[jshipp23]

Guys like London Fletcher and Mike Singletary were supposed to be too small too and they did ok..

[BCoop]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Guys like London Fletcher and Mike Singletary were supposed to be too small too and they did ok..

 

They were considered short, not small.

 

Both Geathers and Peppers would need to pack on 30-40 pounds to have the kind of mass and leverage Fletcher and Singletary had at ILB. That's just not a realistic expectation and certainly not something I'm risking another first round selection on when we need guaranteed playmakers in this draft.

[DaColts85]

8 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Guys like London Fletcher and Mike Singletary were supposed to be too small too and they did ok..

They were still like 230 or 235 though.

[GoColtsGo5150]

I wouldn't be upset at all if we were to take either Adams or Hooker with our first pick. They both have the makings of being blue chip defensive players ( something that we desperately need.) Overall, for me, Jamal Adams is probably my favorite player in this entire draft- so I would prefer him. IMO he can play both SS and FS, a valuable trait. This trait may allow him to come in and cover TEs right away or play in a 2 high look with Green whilst Geathers plays in the box as a linebacker. 

 

The way I see it is that Adams has a higher floor and is maybe one of the safer picks in this draft (his high end is an Eric Berry type player and the low end for me would be someone like Kenny Vacarro.)

Hooker on the other hand perhaps has a slightly higher ceiling (his high end for me would be a Harrison Smith and his low end would may be a Ha-Ha Clinton Dix.)

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

They were considered short, not small.

 

Both Geathers and Peppers would need to pack on 30-40 pounds to have the kind of mass and leverage Fletcher and Singletary had at ILB. That's just not a realistic expectation and certainly not something I'm risking another first round selection on when we need guaranteed playmakers in this draft.

The Colts website has Geathers listed at 220lb.  If that is true he'd need only 10-15 more lbs.  jerrell freeman played at 230-235.  He's a bigger body than Jerrell height wise.

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, GoColtsGo5150 said:

I wouldn't be upset at all if we were to take either Adams or Hooker with our first pick. They both have the makings of being blue chip defensive players ( something that we desperately need.) Overall, for me, Jamal Adams is probably my favorite player in this entire draft- so I would prefer him. IMO he can play both SS and FS, a valuable trait. This trait may allow him to come in and cover TEs right away or play in a 2 high look with Green whilst Geathers plays in the box as a linebacker. 

 

The way I see it is that Adams has a higher floor and is maybe one of the safer picks in this draft (his high end is an Eric Berry type player and the low end for me would be someone like Kenny Vacarro.)

Hooker on the other hand perhaps has a slightly higher ceiling (his high end for me would be a Harrison Smith and his low end would may be a Ha-Ha Clinton Dix.)

Adams is supposed to be very good in coverage.

[DaColts85]

Geathers would not need to much more to be an effective ILB.  The problem no one looks at is whether he would even translate to that position well.  You need instincts to be a great ILB so just plugging him in doesn't mean you get an upgarde over Morrison or either Jackson's if we keep D'Qwell.

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

They were considered short, not small.

 

Both Geathers and Peppers would need to pack on 30-40 pounds to have the kind of mass and leverage Fletcher and Singletary had at ILB. That's just not a realistic expectation and certainly not something I'm risking another first round selection on when we need guaranteed playmakers in this draft.

Singletary was 230 and nowhere near the athlete Peppers is..Peppers is 210, he could put on 15 lbs by training camp. ..

[BCoop]

Just now, krunk said:

The Colts website has Geathers listed at 220lb.  If that is true he'd need only 10-15 more lbs.  jerrell freeman played at 230-235.  He's a bigger body than Jerrell height wise.

 

If I'm determined to move geathers to ILB full-time, I want him at 245lbs minimum at his height. He's already had nagging injury issues. He would never last at 225-235 at that position for a full season.

[BCoop]

5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

They were still like 230 or 235 though.

 

On a much shorter frame as well. Those guys were thick and possessed great leverage inside. 

[DaColts85]

Just now, BCoop said:

 

If I'm determined to move geathers to ILB full-time, I want him at 245lbs minimum at his height. He's already had nagging injury issues. He would never last at 225-235 at that position for a full season.

Why 245?  I don't see how that really matters.  If he was 235 he still can make an impact.  Size wise I do not see the issue but rather the fact he might not be good at the position regardless of size.

[DaColts85]

Just now, BCoop said:

 

On a much shorter frame as well. Those guys were thick and possessed great leverage inside. 

The league is way different now as well.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

If I'm determined to move geathers to ILB full-time, I want him at 245lbs minimum at his height. He's already had nagging injury issues. He would never last at 225-235 at that position for a full season.

I don't think we got a linebacker on this team at 245!  Just about every colts linebacker we've had under this regime has been 230-235lbs.  Especially the Will lb.  Biggest Mike we have is Dqwell Jackson at 242.  Will is what Geathers would be.  Edwin Jackson plays the Will at 230 and he's 6 feet.

[BCoop]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think we got a linebacker on this team at 245!  Just about every colts linebacker we've had under this regime has been 230-235lbs.  Especially the Will lb.  Biggest Mike we have is Dqwell Jackson at 242.  Will is what Geathers would be.

 

We also don't have any 6'2" ILB. Look, if you guys want someone that has never played ILB and is too slender for the position to anchor a 3-4 defense, I don't know what to tell you. It's not the right move for his skillset or frame.

 

In addition, the argument is to move him there because you want spend a 1st round pick on a guy (Peppers) that has shown no ability to be a ball-hawk coverage player at safety while pairing him with another safety (Green) that showed nothing but a fast 40 his rookie year.

 

I'm not taking that risk when we can actually get a prospect at ILB or Safety that has elite level traits for the position at that pick. Why create yet another project when there are better options that fit our current personnel?

[jshipp23]

If you want a ballhawk free safety who can also tackle just grab Desmond King in the 2nd..Best ball skills in the draft and one of the best tacklers..Save the 1st round for a bluechip OLB or DLine they are much harder to find..Assuming Fournette or Cook aren't there, if they are you gotta hitch that wagon..

[krunk]

Just now, BCoop said:

 

We also don't have any 6'2" ILB. Look, if you guys want someone that has never played ILB and is too slender for the position to anchor a 3-4 defense, I don't know what to tell you. It's not the right move for his skillset or frame.

 

In addition, the argument is to move him there because you want spend a 1st round pick on a guy (Peppers) that has shown no ability to be a ball-hawk coverage player at safety while pairing him with another safety (Green) that showed nothing but a fast 40 his rookie year.

 

I'm not taking that risk when we can actually get a prospect at ILB or Safety that has elite level traits for the position at that pick.

That's up to the staff who already has not ruled it out as per the words of Monachino.  My position is if they are confident with that move then I'm cool with them picking up Adams or Hooker.  Doesn't stop you from picking up other positions.

[BCoop]

Just now, krunk said:

That's up to the staff who already has not ruled it out as per the words of Monachino.  My position is if they are confident with that move then I'm cool with them picking up Adams or Hooker.  Doesn't stop you from picking up other positions.

 

Just for clarification because I don't think I was clear in my prior posts. I have no problem drafting Adams or Hooker. Put them at FS and let Geathers continue as SS. He can slide down in the box on passing downs and Green can come in if the matchups dictate that.

 

My post was in reference to drafting Peppers and making either him or Geathers a full-time ILB. I don't see that working long-term. As always, that's just my opinion.