Everything good comes from a loss against the Jags

[Yoshinator]

We are heading into the final week of what has been a disappointing season for the most part for the Colts. There have been a few positives, mainly the draft class this year, and some positive improvements from Luck. The final game, though, we need to root for a loss for the following 3 reasons:

 

1:) Have the Jags win and weaken their draft position. Admittedly this is the least important of the 3 reasons, and I'm naming it 1st. We have a chance to hurt a division rival by losing to them in week 17 and weaken their draft position and keep them from getting a blue chip player possibly. This could be the difference from them getting Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook, it could keep them from getting Myles Garrett and adding another huge defensive piece to an already young and solid defense that will have a new head coach next year. If Mitch Turbisky is on the Board, this could possibly stop them from getting him to replace Bortles should they want too. Lots of possible scenarios here.

 

2.) Have us lose to improve our draft position. We are currently 13th in the NFL draft as of now. We can probably get to 10th at best. Again though, as I mentioned with the Jags, that can be a talent difference. With a pick from 10-12, Grigson (or a new GM), can possibly get a top 8 overall talent on his big board for our team. If a few Offensive players are picked before us as well, that could leave us with an elite defensive player at a position just waiting for us. McDowell at DT, Humphrey at CB, Cunningham at ILB, Peppers or Williams at OLB. All of these guys are possible players to fall to us and I can almost guarantee 1 or 2 would fall to us if we lose in week 17, and the GM, whoever it may be, can choose the best one. You can even throw in Dalvin Cook if you want an rb.

 

3.) The most important reason, to get rid of Pagano and/or Grigson. I truly believe Irsay is still on the fence about getting rid of these guys. An 8-8 season could likely end in keeping both for one more year and wasting another year of Luck's precious career for us. Pagano is one of the worst coaches in football, bar none. He doesn't develop defensive players we draft, which is supposed to be his strength. The offense has shown more development than the defense, in fact. Grigson is ok, if he's truly changed into the GM we've seen the last two years, then he's probably worth keeping over an unknown. We don't know that though. That's a decision Irsay will have to make, and it has to be the right one. A loss Vs Jacksonville should tip the scales in favor of getting rid of one or both of them, and the possibility of them getting hired and Irsay not having to pay the full bill per se, should coerce him into making the right decision. It will probably only happen if we lose though.

[Colts1324]

10 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We are heading into the final week of what has been a disappointing season for the most part for the Colts. There have been a few positives, mainly the draft class this year, and some positive improvements from Luck. The final game, though, we need to root for a loss for the following 3 reasons:

 

1:) Have the Jags win and weaken their draft position. Admittedly this is the least important of the 3 reasons, and I'm naming it 1st. We have a chance to hurt a division rival by losing to them in week 17 and weaken their draft position and keep them from getting a blue chip player possibly. This could be the difference from them getting Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook, it could keep them from getting Myles Garrett and adding another huge defensive piece to an already young and solid defense that will have a new head coach next year. If Mitch Turbisky is on the Board, this could possibly stop them from getting him to replace Bortles should they want too. Lots of possible scenarios here.

 

2.) Have us lose to improve our draft position. We are currently 13th in the NFL draft as of now. We can probably get to 10th at best. Again though, as I mentioned with the Jags, that can be a talent difference. With a pick from 10-12, Grigson (or a new GM), can possibly get a top 8 overall talent on his big board for our team. If a few Offensive players are picked before us as well, that could leave us with an elite defensive player at a position just waiting for us. McDowell at DT, Humphrey at CB, Cunningham at ILB, Peppers or Williams at OLB. All of these guys are possible players to fall to us and I can almost guarantee 1 or 2 would fall to us if we lose in week 17, and the GM, whoever it may be, can choose the best one. You can even throw in Dalvin Cook if you want an rb.

 

3.) The most important reason, to get rid of Pagano and/or Grigson. I truly believe Irsay is still on the fence about getting rid of these guys. An 8-8 season could likely end in keeping both for one more year and wasting another year of Luck's precious career for us. Pagano is one of the worst coaches in football, bar none. He doesn't develop defensive players we draft, which is supposed to be his strength. The offense has shown more development than the defense, in fact. Grigson is ok, if he's truly changed into the GM we've seen the last two years, then he's probably worth keeping over an unknown. We don't know that though. That's a decision Irsay will have to make, and it has to be the right one. A loss Vs Jacksonville should tip the scales in favor of getting rid of one or both of them, and the possibility of them getting hired and Irsay not having to pay the full bill per se, should coerce him into making the right decision. It will probably only happen if we lose though.

Like I've said before, I never can root for the colts to lose. I have to much pride in the Colts to say we lost to JACKSONVILLE twice in 1 season. It also makes me feel better not having a losing season. Now if I knew for sure that Pagano would get fired if we lost, I might be okay rooting for a loss. I understand it helps our draft pick. I also understand winning does really nothing positive for the team other than helping their pride and ending the season on a good note. But I still will root for them to win come Sunday. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Colts1324 said:

Like I've said before, I never can root for the colts to lose. I have to much pride in the Colts to say we lost to JACKSONVILLE twice in 1 season. It also makes me feel better not having a losing season. Now if I knew for sure that Pagano would get fired if we lost, I might be okay rooting for a loss. I understand it helps our draft pick. I also understand winning does really nothing positive for the team other than helping their pride and ending the season on a good note. But I still will root for them to win come Sunday. 

I can appreciate that, but we are out of the playoffs at this point. Our pride is gone. We have nothing to be proud of. We can deliver an annoying blow to Jacksonville, if anything else. If we beat them, do you want them to have Leonard Fournette and pound the ball like Ezekiel Elliott for 10 years? There's nothing to fight for anymore. One day of happiness isn't worth the Jags having a Franchise RB or QB, and it certainly isn't worth Pagno and/or Grigson coming back. I ask that you think about it. I'm as competitive as they come in my everyday life, but there's no reason to want to win as a fan unless you are desperate for a meaningless victory to cope out the year. The future is more important for the 3 reasons I listed IMO.

[Colts1324]

23 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I can appreciate that, but we are out of the playoffs at this point. Our pride is gone. We have nothing to be proud of. We can deliver an annoying blow to Jacksonville, if anything else. If we beat them, do you want them to have Leonard Fournette and pound the ball like Ezekiel Elliott for 10 years? There's nothing to fight for anymore. One day of happiness isn't worth the Jags having a Franchise RB or QB, and it certainly isn't worth Pagno and/or Grigson coming back. I ask that you think about it. I'm as competitive as they come in my everyday life, but there's no reason to want to win as a fan unless you are desperate for a meaningless victory to cope out the year. The future is more important for the 3 reasons I listed IMO.

Like I said you have the right reasons. Me being stubborn, I can't really root for them to lose. Lol. And honestly I think Fournette is going to be average. Cook is a lot better IMO. So I would be really happy if Jacksonville got Fournette instead of Peppers, Humphrey, Garrett, or Mitch. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Colts1324 said:

Like I said you have the right reasons. Me being stubborn, I can't really root for them to lose. Lol. And honestly I think Fournette is going to be average. Cook is a lot better IMO. So I would be really happy if Jacksonville got Fournette instead of Peppers, Humphrey, Garrett, or Mitch. 

All right, fair enough, I won't try and coerce you anymore. I saw last week that Jacksonville put up a solid effort vs Tenn. I think it had something to do with Gus Bradley being fired. This will be a tougher matchup than most people think IMO. Will enjoy it for what it is, the last game of the season. Hopefully, our O-Line can do a solid job again. Another tough defense. They can make a statement in the final week.

[braveheartcolt]

Do you honestly think a meaningless week 17 game would sway an owner to make such a decision to either fire or keep his coach and/or his GM? I'm pretty sure he has already made up his mind. I hope we come out and lay 40 on those crappy Jags, and take our chances in the draft lottery next year......

 

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The most important reason, to get rid of Pagano and/or Grigson. I truly believe Irsay is still on the fence about getting rid of these guys. An 8-8 season could likely end in keeping both for one more year and wasting another year of Luck's precious career for us. Pagano is one of the worst coaches in football, bar none. He doesn't develop defensive players we draft, which is supposed to be his strength

Jared, 

 

1 of the main reasons I like you as a regular on here is that you have kahunas. You are never afraid to tell me what you really think. I'm not in favor of engaging in deliberate sabotage & losing games to a divisional rival on purpose. Remember, when other teams accused INDY of the 'Suck for Luck' NFL sweepstakes in 2011? Like we wanted Painter to throw picks to improve our draft placement on purpose. I didn't like it back then & I can't condone tanking now. 

 

Having said all that, if it means fresh blood in the front office & on the sidelines, I wouldn't be upset over that new development. I just can't endorse the idea of professional football players playing half caboose on the field. Could you imagine what would happen if both the Jags & Colts treated this last regular season like 3 & a half quarters of the ProBowl? You think NFL Network & ESPN diminishes our contributions as a football team on TV now. Man, they would have a field day mocking our organization if they believed we were only going through the motions as a team like a walk thru drill with zero contact at all. INDY would be perceived as the WWF of integrity & competition then. 

 

Am I pleased we got Luck in 2012? Sure I am. But, I always argue with folks who claim we threw in the towel on purpose. Say Jimmy cuts Pags, keeps Grigs, & drafts yet another WR or lineman that fizzles out again? Are we better off? Not really. 

[Yoshinator]

14 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Do you honestly think a meaningless week 17 game would sway an owner to make such a decision to either fire or keep his coach and/or his GM? I'm pretty sure he has already made up his mind. I hope we come out and lay 40 on those crappy Jags, and take our chances in the draft lottery next year......

 

It's the difference between a losing season or not, so yes I do. You don't play 15/16 of a season, you play all 16 games to gather as much info as possible. If we lose to the Jags, they could very well be fired when they weren't before.

[NewColtsFan]

53 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I can appreciate that, but we are out of the playoffs at this point. Our pride is gone. We have nothing to be proud of. We can deliver an annoying blow to Jacksonville, if anything else. If we beat them, do you want them to have Leonard Fournette and pound the ball like Ezekiel Elliott for 10 years? There's nothing to fight for anymore. One day of happiness isn't worth the Jags having a Franchise RB or QB, and it certainly isn't worth Pagno and/or Grigson coming back. I ask that you think about it. I'm as competitive as they come in my everyday life, but there's no reason to want to win as a fan unless you are desperate for a meaningless victory to cope out the year. The future is more important for the 3 reasons I listed IMO.

 

 

It's astounding to me, how little attention you pay....   and you're not alone....   all the young posters don't pay much attention....

 

We've lost our pride?      Really?

 

Then how and why did we win our last two games of the season last year?    You know, when you and all the other young posters were screaming for the Colts to tank the last two games of the year and get a top-10 pick and we won them with QB's 4 and 5 and finished 8 and 8.  

 

We blew our one shot at winning the division losing to Houston and then turned around and dominated Minnesota, who were favored to win at home.     We had nothing to play for and we beat them in every phase of the game.       We lost bad to Oakland.     Hard to win when Andrew is throwing two terrible picks and Gore fumbles.     Three key turnovers will typically get you beat.

 

We're likely going to beat J'Ville Sunday.    8 and 8 for two years in a row and all the young posters are screaming bloody murder and the sky is falling.      You have no idea how much worse it could get......

 

Be careful what you wish for......    you might just get it.....

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Jared, 

 

1 of the main reasons I like you as a regular on here is that you have kahunas. You are never afraid to tell me what you really think. I'm not in favor of engaging in deliberate sabotage & losing games to a divisional rival on purpose. Remember, when other teams accused INDY of the 'Suck for Luck' NFL sweepstakes in 2011? Like when wanted Painter to throw picks to improve our draft placement on purpose. I didn't like it back then & I can't condone tanking now. 

 

Having said all that, if it means fresh blood in the front office & on the sidelines, I wouldn't be upset over that new development. I just can't endorse the idea of professional football players playing half caboose on the field. Could you imagine what would happen if both the Jags & Colts treated this last regular season like 3 & a half quarters of the ProBowl? You think NFL Network & ESPN diminishes our contributions as a football team on TV now. Man, they would have a field day mocking our organization if they believed we were only going through the motions as a team like a walk thru drill with zero contact at all. INDY would be perceived as the WWF of integrity & competition then. 

 

Am I pleased we got Luck in 2012? Sure I am. But, I always argue with folks who claim we threw in the towel on purpose. Say Jimmy cuts Pags, keeps Grigs, & drafts yet another WR or lineman that fizzles out again? Are we better off? Not really. 

Appreciate it. We won't tank unless we specifically sit Luck, and if we did, no one would blame us for it as we are eliminated already. We also won't draft a WR, though we may draft Dalvin Cook. He's the only non-defensive player I see us taking though as Fournette will be long gone as well as Cam Robinson. I don't want Jax to become a solid franchise and legit threat to us. Texans and Titans are already threats now. Jags have a great defense, no need to give them a franchise QB or RB. If this can get us new blood in the office, then yes, I'm a Jags fan for a day. It's not just about draft position, it's about our future and Luck's future. I want a chance at a SB with Andrew Luck. We aren't getting another Manning or Luck at 1st overall again. Better make use of Luck while we have the chance.

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

It's astounding to me, how little attention you pay....   and you're not alone....   all the young posters don't pay much attention....

 

We've lost our pride?      Really?

 

Then how and why did we win our last two games of the season last year?    You know, when you and all the other young posters were screaming for the Colts to tank the last two games of the year and get a top-10 pick and we won them with QB's 4 and 5 and finished 8 and 8.  

 

We blew our one shot at winning the division losing to Houston and then turned around and dominated Minnesota, who were favored to win at home.     We had nothing to play for and we beat them in every phase of the game.       We lost bad to Oakland.     Hard to win when Andrew is throwing two terrible picks and Gore fumbles.     Three key turnovers will typically get you beat.

 

We're likely going to beat J'Ville Sunday.    8 and 8 for two years in a row and all the young posters are screaming bloody murder and the sky is falling.      You have no idea how much worse it could get......

 

Be careful what you wish for......    you might just get it.....

 

We beat Minnesota woohoo. We can't beat NE, we can't beat Pitt, we can't win the division anymore. Let me tell you this, I'm not upset because of our record. If it gets way worse, I can take it. Mediocrity is the worst thing you can be. You aren't making the playoffs and having a shot at winning the SB, and you aren't getting elite talent in the draft to improve. We also have Andrew Luck, the other posters and I have proper reason to have high expectations to win. We didn't draft RGIII and have to rebuild, if we did, my expectations would be low. We have a franchise QB, the weak link is pagano. If we are to get anywhere, he needs to go. Losing this game could be the key. The only way it gets worse is keeping Pagano, then we remain in a tailspin.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We beat Minnesota woohoo. We can't beat NE, we can't beat Pitt, we can't win the division anymore. Let me tell you this, I'm not upset because of our record. If it gets way worse, I can take it. Mediocrity is the worst thing you can be. You aren't making the playoffs and having a shot at winning the SB, and you aren't getting elite talent in the draft to improve. We also have Andrew Luck, the other posters and I have proper reason to have high expectations to win. We didn't draft RGIII and have to rebuild, if we did, my expectations would be low. We have a franchise QB, the weak link is pagano. If we are to get anywhere, he needs to go. Losing this game could be the key. The only way it gets worse is keeping Pagano, then we remain in a tailspin.

 

Remember,  one of the two years we didn't make the post-season,  we didn't have a guy named Andrew Luck.

 

As for nothing beating New England and Pittsburgh.....   most teams aren't beating them either.    We're hardly unique.

 

Look,  I jumped off the Grigson band-wagon a year ago.    Too many misses in the draft and free agency which is why we are where we are.

 

I'm just saying many other clubs are struggling and some have it worse than us.     And perhaps you haven't noticed that the two teams who were in the Super Bowl....    Carolina is under 500 and Denver may not make the playoffs either.      This game is HARD!

 

You may get your wish....    Irsay may cut both Grigson and Pagano....   but that's no guarantee that things will get better.       They might.....    but it's just as likely that they won't.....

 

And that's the thing that I think most her don't understand.     Things could be worse....   A LOT worse!

 

[southwest1]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Appreciate it. We won't tank unless we specifically sit Luck, and if we did, no one would blame us for it as we are eliminated already. We also won't draft a WR, though we may draft Dalvin Cook. He's the only non-defensive player I see us taking though as Fournette will be long gone as well as Cam Robinson. I don't want Jax to become a solid franchise and legit threat to us. Texans and Titans are already threats now. Jags have a great defense, no need to give them a franchise QB or RB. If this can get us new blood in the office, then yes, I'm a Jags fan for a day. It's not just about draft position, it's about our future and Luck's future. I want a chance at a SB with Andrew Luck. We aren't getting another Manning or Luck at 1st overall again. Better make use of Luck while we have the chance.

I know your heart is in the right place as in making the most of Andrew's yrs here as our fearless leader avoiding any more lacerated kidneys, concussions, & shoulder setbacks...So, I'm not going to condemn you like other forum members might be inclined to.

 

I agree with you on the Titans & Texans being legitimate foes now as in constructing better defenses than we currently have right now too. 

 

I just don't get why some fans are so afraid of change. We already know what we have with our current HC & GM: A team that struggles if you shutdown TY, Dorsett can't produce a touchdown unless the play is a blown coverage, we still struggle on punt returns or we fail to kneel on touchbacks when Luck needs decent field position to win games late; & it really bothers me when I see false starts on TV inside LOS all throughout Pagano's tenure as head coach. I can't lie. 

 

If Jeff Fisher got the boot with the Rams after 5 yrs, why is Chuck Pagano any different? 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Remember,  one of the two years we didn't make the post-season,  we didn't have a guy named Andrew Luck.

 

As for nothing beating New England and Pittsburgh.....   most teams aren't beating them either.    We're hardly unique.

 

Look,  I jumped off the Grigson band-wagon a year ago.    Too many misses in the draft and free agency which is why we are where we are.

 

I'm just saying many other clubs are struggling and some have it worse than us.     And perhaps you haven't noticed that the two teams who were in the Super Bowl....    Carolina is under 500 and Denver may not make the playoffs either.      This game is HARD!

 

You may get your wish....    Irsay may cut both Grigson and Pagano....   but that's no guarantee that things will get better.       They might.....    but it's just as likely that they won't.....

 

And that's the thing that I think most her don't understand.     Things could be worse....   A LOT worse!

 

I believe Luck went 2-5 in games he started last year. He was nothing but a burden to us. I agree most teams aren't beating NE and Pitt, but most teams don't have Andrew Luck and high expectations. There is a lot of Variance in football, but we are in a regression now. We are actually getting worse. The division is getting better. Pagano can't develop defensive players. If things get worse, it's better than mediocre. We have Luck, we have half the equation. I truly believe any coach can win 6 games with a healthy Luck. Anything but mediocre is fine with me. Either we get elite talent in the draft, or we improve our coaching and give NE and Pitt tough battles. Worst you can be is the irrelevent middle.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I know your heart is in the right place as in making the most of Andrew's yrs here as our fearless leader avoiding any more lacerated kidneys, concussions, & shoulder setbacks...So, I'm not going to condemn you like other forum members might be inclined to.

 

I agree with you on the Titans & Texans being legitimate foes now as in constructing better defenses than we currently have right now too. 

 

I just don't get why some fans are so afraid of change. We already know what we have with our current HC & GM: A team that struggles if you shutdown TY, Dorsett can't produce a touchdown unless the play is a blown coverage, we still struggle on punt returns or we fail to kneel on touchbacks when Luck needs decent field position to win games late; & it really bothers me when I see false starts on TV inside LOS all throughout Pagano's tenure as head coach. I can't lie. 

 

If Jeff Fisher got the boot with the Rams after 5 yrs, why is Chuck Pagano any different? 

Lack of discipline and effort bothers me. It's a coaching problem IMO. No one takes responsibility, and it's the same inconsistencies every week. We should be dominating weak teams and competing with playoff teams, instead we are fighting to beat weak teams, and losing o playoff teams. We beat the Packers, yes, but if we played them today, they'd beat us by two tds. I don't see things getting better until Pagano is gone, and that's the sad truth.

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I believe Luck went 2-5 in games he started last year. He was nothing but a burden to us. I agree most teams aren't beating NE and Pitt, but most teams don't have Andrew Luck and high expectations. There is a lot of Variance in football, but we are in a regression now. We are actually getting worse. The division is getting better. Pagano can't develop defensive players. If things get worse, it's better than mediocre. We have Luck, we have half the equation. I truly believe any coach can win 6 games with a healthy Luck. Anything but mediocre is fine with me. Either we get elite talent in the draft, or we improve our coaching and give NE and Pitt tough battles. Worst you can be is the irrelevent middle.

 

If you're going to write lines like "Luck was nothing but a burden to us" then there's simply no bridging the gap between us.       That's among the 10 worst things anyone has written in the 5 years I've been here.    Luck may have struggled but there were lots of reasons for it.      That kind of line makes one think that maybe you believe we'd be better off without him?      I mean,  come on.....

 

As for Pagano can't develop anyone?      Ready?

 

Vonte Davis, Mike Adams,  Dwight Lowery,  Darius Butler.     He doesn't get credit for Kendall Langford or Jerrell Freeman?       How about Eric Walden?     Edwin Jackson?      TJ Green and Hassan Ridgeway?     

 

And who were all the big time talent that were brought in?      Werner -- out of football.   Chapman -- out of football.   Newsome --- out of football.    Landry -- out of football.    DJ Smith -- cut after a year and a half.

 

Are you getting a different picture now?       First,  we've had very little talent on that side of the ball.    Second, Pagano has developed plenty of them.     It's hard to see the development when you hate someone as much as you do Pagano.      

 

You don't go 11-5 the first 3 years and a round further in the post-season each year,  all with a roster that was average to below average,  if the guy can't coach.      He actually can.    But the haters don't see it because they don't want to.

 

 

 

[southwest1]

In the interest of fairness, I like Pagano as a person, but I'm convinced now, he will never win a ring for us. I don't wanna sniff a SB title. I want to win one. I don't keep guys around because they are upstanding citizens off the field. I know Grigson watches numerous hours of college tape, but how can a former linemen himself be so bad at protecting Luck? I've never been able to figure that one out. It's like a cement expert who pours uneven driveways or demolition expert whose buildings don't always collapse where they are supposed to. 

 

I've heard other people say that a lot of coaches struggle to win against Pittsburgh & NE. I don't care about 31 other teams vs those squads just how INDY fares in a head to head battle without getting embarrassed & annihilated. Part of that is we don't have a formidable defense. I know that. 

 

Sure, things could get worse, but you don't solve a problem by pretending a Championship is only a couple seasons away & before long it's ten yrs later with no Lombardi trophy to accompany our 2006 one. Look, I know what the fear is going through coaches like a ferris wheel like Al Davis was known for. I get it. I just know this regime's effectiveness is over & Joe Philbin's improvements although impressive aren't next level great enough to keep this staff intact. 

 

If I saw signs that this team wasn't repeating the same mistakes in games, I'd be willing to ride it out. But, I just don't see INDY moving forward in measurable Championship ways & I'm out until we start making new strides when games really start to matter after Halloween & Thanksgiving. 

 

I will still watch INDY of course, but won't necessarily get excited perse.

[Yoshinator]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If you're going to write lines like "Luck was nothing but a burden to us" then there's simply no bridging the gap between us.       That's among the 10 worst things anyone has written in the 5 years I've been here.    Luck may have struggled but there were lots of reasons for it.      That kind of line makes one think that maybe you believe we'd be better off without him?      I mean,  come on.....

 

As for Pagano can't develop anyone?      Ready?

 

Vonte Davis, Mike Adams,  Dwight Lowery,  Darius Butler.     He doesn't get credit for Kendall Langford or Jerrell Freeman?       How about Eric Walden?     Edwin Jackson?      TJ Green and Hassan Ridgeway?     

 

And who were all the big time talent that were brought in?      Werner -- out of football.   Chapman -- out of football.   Newsome --- out of football.    Landry -- out of football.    DJ Smith -- cut after a year and a half.

 

Are you getting a different picture now?       First,  we've had very little talent on that side of the ball.    Second, Pagano has developed plenty of them.     It's hard to see the development when you hate someone as much as you do Pagano.      

 

You don't go 11-5 the first 3 years and a round further in the post-season each year,  all with a roster that was average to below average,  if the guy can't coach.      He actually can.    But the haters don't see it because they don't want to.

 

 

 

First off, Pagano didn't go 11-5 his first three years. He only won 2 games his first year (due to reasons out of his control, but it was arians coaching). Pagano isn't worthy of being hated. He's not Bill Belichick, he's not Pete Carroll, he's not even Jim or John Harbaugh. He is basically Irrelevent, and most good coaches love him because he's easy to outsmart and outstrategize. Luck is a great QB, I meant he was a burden last year because he was hurt all year. He shouldn't of been starting at all, then he got a lacarated kidney against the Broncos. Most of those names you named were free agents that had experience. Pagano didn't make them any better. Vontae's case was mental, as he had character concerns when we got him and Pagano was able to turn him into a great football player by talking to and motivating him. TJ Green is playing pretty bad right now. I'll give you Edwin Jackson and Hassan Ridgeway. Lets see if someone on defense can improve in year 2 that has been drafted under Pagano, that has yet to happen.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

In the interest of fairness, I like Pagano as a person, but I'm convinced now, he will never win a ring for us. I don't wanna sniff a SB title. I want to win one. I don't keep guys around because they are upstanding citizens off the field. I know Grigson watches numerous hours of college tape, but how can a former linemen himself be so bad at protecting Luck? I've never been able to figure that one out. It's like a cement expert who pours uneven driveways or demolition expert who buildings don't always collapse where they are supposed to. 

 

I've heard other people say that a lot of coaches struggle to win against Pittsburgh & NE. I don't care about 31 other teams vs those squads just how INDY fares in a head to head battle without getting embarrassed & annihilated. Part of that is we don't have a formidable defense. I know that. 

 

Sure, things could get worse, but you don't solve a problem by pretending a Championship is only a couple seasons away & before long it's ten yrs later with no Lombardi trophy to accompany our 2006 one. Look, I know what the fear is going through coaches like a ferris wheel like Al Davis was known for. I get it. I just know this regime's effectiveness is over & Joe Philbin's improvements although impressive aren't next level great enough to keep this staff intact. 

 

If I saw signs that this team wasn't repeating the same mistakes in games, I'd be willing to ride it out. But, I just don't see INDY moving forward in measurable Championship ways & I'm out until we start making new strides when games really start to matter after Halloween & Thanksgiving. 

 

I will still watch INDY of course, but won't necessarily get excited perse.

If we keep on at this pace, it'll be at least 3 years before we contend. We'll have to rebuild the defense, get an rb that can take the pressure off Luck somewhat, and also overcome Pagano's defeciences. The best thing that can happen is to get a new coach as soon as possible. If he's inexperienced but shows potential, then he should learn on the job and be good enough to take us to the SB when the team is rebuilt, and if he's good enough from the start, we may get there sooner. We just need a coach that is willing to learn from his mistakes and get the best out of the team.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

First off, Pagano didn't go 11-5 his first three years. He only won 2 games his first year (due to reasons out of his control, but it was arians coaching). Pagano isn't worthy of being hated. He's not Bill Belichick, he's not Pete Carroll, he's not even Jim or John Harbaugh. He is basically Irrelevent, and most good coaches love him because he's easy to outsmart and outstrategize. Luck is a great QB, I meant he was a burden last year because he was hurt all year. He shouldn't of been starting at all, then he got a lacarated kidney against the Broncos. Most of those names you named were free agents that had experience. Pagano didn't make them any better. Vontae's case was mental, as he had character concerns when we got him and Pagano was able to turn him into a great football by talking to and motivating him. TJ Green is playing pretty bad right now. I'll give you Edwin Jackson and Hassan Ridgeway. Lets see if someone on defense can improve in year 2 that has been drafted under Pagano, that has yet to happen.

 

On the Pagano first year.....

 

I'd be willing to concede that point IF we hadn't done just as well in years 2 and 3.  

 

But we did.     We went 11-5 in years 2 and 3 and that's with Pep as the OC and not Arians and not a great roster.     That tells me that had Pags been the HC all the way through the first year,  nothing would be different. Because we still would've had Arians right next to him as the OC.   Remember, we had Reggie Wayne go down one of those years and Robert Mathis go down one of those years.   Top players.   But we kept winning.   Pagano established the culture that Arians inherited.     So, I see no reason not to give Pagano the credit for year one.   

I've never called Pagano a great coach.    And I agree that we're not likely to win a SB with him.    I agree.

 

But I'd like him to be the guy that gets us most of the way there.     THAT,  I think he can do.     It may take a Gruden or Harbaugh or someone else to take us the rest of the way,   but I think Pagano deserves one more year.      I appreciate that you'll disagree with that......     and that's what makes the world go round and round.    A difference of opinion.

 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

On the Pagano first year.....

 

I'd be willing to concede that point IF we hadn't done just as well in years 2 and 3.  

 

But we did.     We went 11-5 in years 2 and 3 and that's with Pep as the OC and not Arians and not a great roster.     That tells me that had Pags been the HC all the way through the first year,  nothing would be different. Because we still would've had Arians right next to him as the OC.   Remember, we had Reggie Wayne go down one of those years and Robert Mathis go down one of those years.   Top players.   But we kept winning.   Pagano established the culture that Arians inherited.     So, I see no reason not to give Pagano the credit for year one.   

I've never called Pagano a great coach.    And I agree that we're not likely to win a SB with him.    I agree.

 

But I'd like him to be the guy that gets us most of the way there.     THAT,  I think he can do.     It may take a Gruden or Harbaugh or someone else to take us the rest of the way,   but I think Pagano deserves one more year.      I appreciate that you'll disagree with that......     and that's what makes the world go round and round.    A difference of opinion.

 

 

Fair enough, I disagree, but respect your opinion, as you are a very intelligent poster that I can always learn from. We'll see what happens at the end of the season. This game may have an effect if we do lose.

[southwest1]

28 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If we keep on at this pace, it'll be at least 3 years before we contend. We'll have to rebuild the defense, get an rb that can take the pressure off Luck somewhat, and also overcome Pagano's defeciences. The best thing that can happen is to get a new coach as soon as possible. If he's inexperienced but shows potential, then he should learn on the job and be good enough to take us to the SB when the team is rebuilt, and if he's good enough from the start, we may get there sooner. We just need a coach that is willing to learn from his mistakes and get the best out of the team.

Your first sentence is so accurate that it's scary. I also concur with your overall premise that the reason Irsay hired him: His defensive skill set hasn't exactly been demonstrated with flying colors. That's the nicest way I can say it.

 

Are the quality players on defense deficient as a cohesive unit unlike say the Giants for example? Absolutely they are. But, wouldn't you think by week 16 fans would notice a significant difference on say pass rush from week 1 until now? Anybody can learn technique if your mentor/HC knows what they are doing. 

 

I'm pretty sure Jimmy likes fresh new coordinators who are unproven yet driven. However, I value experience & you get what you pay for meaning quality or an established record of success. I know; I know. Marvin Lewis hasn't won a playoff game in like 12 yrs. I just respect his OL, his DL, & his ability to open holes for running backs. Hades, I'm even open to interviewing DC Paul Guenther. 

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Fair enough, I disagree, but respect your opinion, as you are a very intelligent poster that I can always learn from. We'll see what happens at the end of the season. This game may have an effect if we do lose.

 

That's my fear.....

 

If we find a way to lose this game,  I think all bets are off....     

 

Nothing would surprise me.....     so, my anxiety level is a little high for this last game....

 

EDIT NOTE:   Thanks for the very kind words.     I appreciate them very much, especially since I know I rub a number of posters the wrong way....

 

Thanks again....                      

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Your first sentence is so accurate that it's scary. I also concur with your overall premise that the reason Irsay hired him: His defensive skill set hasn't exactly been demonstrated with flying colors. That's the nicest way I can say it.

 

Are the quality players on defensive deficient as a cohesive unit unlike say the Giants for example? Absolutely they are. But, wouldn't you think by week 16 fans would notice a significant difference on say pass rush from week 1 until now? Anybody can learn technique if your mentor/HC knows what they are doing. 

 

I'm pretty sure Jimmy likes fresh new coordinators who are unproven yet driven. However, I value experience & you get what you pay for meaning quality or an established record of success. I know; I know. Marvin Lewis hasn't won a playoff game in like 12 yrs. I just respect his OL, his DL, & his ability to open holes for running backs. Hades, I'm even open to interviewing DC Paul Guenther. 

I can go both ways on the subject. I like a young, hungry and driven, new coach, but an experienced, veteran coach that has been there before is just as good. It'll depend on who's available, and who's willing to coach the team.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's my fear.....

 

If we find a way to lose this game,  I think all bets are off....     

 

Nothing would surprise me.....     so, my anxiety level is a little high for this last game....

 

Mine is a bit too. I said I'm a Jacksonville fan for a day, but my heart is in the right place. I want what is best for the team just like everyone here. We just have different ways of how we feel about it right now with how the season currently went. Whatever happens, happens. Have to trust Irsay at this point.

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It'll depend on who's available, and who's willing to coach the team.

True, I just think a variety of former coaches & current coordinators would be salivating like Pavlovian dogs at the sound of a bell in a classic conditioning experiment to work side by side with Andrew Luck. I'd love to make Chewbacca a SB Champion twice over just to make Skip Bayless eat his own words on the 1st ballot HOF joke he always throws in his direction. It infuriates me actually. Yeah just keep yapping Skip. Your day will come. Trust me. 

 

You just need to find a new guy who can please Irsay & be okay with an erratic pick every now & then. Most of his turnovers are trying to compensate for WR drops or a less than stellar screen game that safeties & DBs seldom bite on in order to create separation & move the chains. 

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Mine is a bit too. I said I'm a Jacksonville fan for a day, but my heart is in the right place. I want what is best for the team just like everyone here. We just have different ways of how we feel about it right now with how the season currently went. Whatever happens, happens. Have to trust Irsay at this point.

 

 

JC.....

 

Scroll back up to my previous post to you.....     I added a few more words just for you while you were typing your response to me.      So, it looks like you missed them, and I wanted to make sure you aw them.

 

And then....

 

GO TO SLEEP!!       That's where I'm headed......        

[Yoshinator]

Just now, southwest1 said:

True, I just think a variety of former coaches & current coordinators would be salivating like Pavlovian dog at the sound of a bell in a classic conditioning experiment to work side by side with Andrew Luck. I'd love to make Chewbacca a SB Champion twice over just to make Skip Bayless eat his own words on the 1st ballot HOF joke he always throws in his direction. It infuriates me actually. Yeah just keep yapping Skip. Your day will come. Trust me, 

 

You just need to find a new guy who can please Irsay & be okay with an erratic pick every now & then. Most of his turnovers are trying to compensate for WR drops or a less than stellar screen game that safeties & DBs seldom bite on in order to create separation & move the chains. 

This sounds exactly like Jon Gruden lol!

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

JC.....

 

Scroll back up to my previous post to you.....     I added a few more words just for you while you were typing your response to me.      So, it looks like you missed them, and I wanted to make sure you aw them.

 

And then....

 

GO TO SLEEP!!       That's where I'm headed......        

Thank you very much, have a good night sleep and I'll do the same!

[southwest1]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

This sounds exactly like Jon Gruden lol!

 What in the spider y banana is going on here my man? A spin off that ole "Blazing Saddles" line- "What in the wide world of sports is a going on here? 

 

I know; I know. Keep your day job. Nice chatting with you all.

 

"Say Goodnite Gracie.Goodnite." -- Comedian George Burns. 

[UKColt13]

I actually agree. A loss does more for us than a win does.

 

Weakens the Jags draft position, improves ours. Makes a FO clear out more likely.

 

Makes complete sense to me. I don't know why we wouldn't rest Luck since he's been on the injury report most of the year.

[braveheartcolt]

5 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

I actually agree. A loss does more for us than a win does.

 

Weakens the Jags draft position, improves ours. Makes a FO clear out more likely.

 

Makes complete sense to me. I don't know why we wouldn't rest Luck since he's been on the injury report most of the year.

Because 66,000 people have spent their hard earned cash to see the game. Going to a game is a day out, and you get a better feeling from seeing your team win than lose. All this I hope we lose nonsense is selfish. If anyone is actually going to the game, and still wants their team to lose, then fair enough.....

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Because 66,000 people have spent their hard earned cash to see the game. Going to a game is a day out, and you get a better feeling from seeing your team win than lose. All this I hope we lose nonsense is selfish. If anyone is actually going to the game, and still wants their team to lose, then fair enough.....

 

I disagree, and actually think wanting team to win this game just like wanting win the last 2 games last season are SELFISH!

When wanting your team to win meaningless games that will hurt your draft position and more importantly may help keep incompetent people running this franchise is selfish. Putting temporary enjoyment for 1 afternoon OVER the teams best path for possible long term success is selfish.

Regardless though if a colt fan wants a win or loss Sunday doesn't really matter because the players & coaches will go all out and play to win. They won't lay down.

Hopefully neither will the Jags.  

 

[UKColt13]

.

[SilentHill]

Let's Go Jaguars!

[UKColt13]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Because 66,000 people have spent their hard earned cash to see the game. Going to a game is a day out, and you get a better feeling from seeing your team win than lose. All this I hope we lose nonsense is selfish. If anyone is actually going to the game, and still wants their team to lose, then fair enough.....

 

Wanting the team to win a meaningless game even though it hurts the team in the medium and long term is the selfish thing. I'd be content to go to a game knowing that the team is doing what's best for them.

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Because 66,000 people have spent their hard earned cash to see the game. Going to a game is a day out, and you get a better feeling from seeing your team win than lose. All this I hope we lose nonsense is selfish. If anyone is actually going to the game, and still wants their team to lose, then fair enough.....

Since who I am rooting for will not affect the outcome of the game, I'll root for the Colts to win, as usual. If they lose, I'll look for the positives that could and will come from the loss. 

 

As for this game determining the fate of this regime..,I would hope that Irsay has made that determination, and if he is moving on from Pagano and/or Grigson, has already spoken with several unemployed coaches or college coaches about the soon to be vacant Colts job(s).

[DalTXColtsFan]

grunch

 

I was thinking that this Jags game will go a long way toward determining whether or not Pagano gets another year.  If the players play the last game with 100% of their heart, hustle and effort, that will tell me the team still wants to play for him and that he hasn't "lost the locker room".

[coltsva]

I don't doubt the effort and heart will be there. It's the preparation and execution that I'm interested in seeing.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

I actually agree. A loss does more for us than a win does.

 

Weakens the Jags draft position, improves ours. Makes a FO clear out more likely.

 

Makes complete sense to me. I don't know why we wouldn't rest Luck since he's been on the injury report most of the year.

I want luck to sit too the freak accidents were crazy last week why risk injury in a pointless game