Grigson and Clark

[JMichael557]

Today we find out about our 3rd round draft pick. Several have commented on the fact that Grigson has gotten better in the draft but I am not so sure. While are last two drafts are sticking around you have to play somebody. I don't know if they are on the team do to being better picks or just because other roster movers were so poor. Last years draft you have Anderson ( I do not hold injury against a GM and hopefully he makes it all the way back). This year Kelly. The rest are still in air. Regardless if Clark plays poorly today then that has to be evaluated by Irsay.

[WoolMagnet]

A whole lotta common sense.

your point?

[TKnight24]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

Today we find out about our 3rd round draft pick. Several have commented on the fact that Grigson has gotten better in the draft but I am not so sure. While are last two drafts are sticking around you have to play somebody. I don't know if they are on the team do to being better picks or just because other roster movers were so poor. Last years draft you have Anderson ( I do not hold injury against a GM and hopefully he makes it all the way back). This year Kelly. The rest are still in air. Regardless if Clark plays poorly today then that has to be evaluated by Irsay.

Since Week 11, according to PFF Hassan Ridgeway is the #1 rated 3-4 defensive lineman I do believe. So I'd add him to the list of players that worked out thus far from that draft class 

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

A whole lotta common sense.

your point?

I was wondering the same thing....

[stitches]

I would not judge Clark or the pick harshly on this game. He was supposed to be redshirted for the year and is now trusted into starting a game because of series of injuries. If anything a good/OK game would signify immense progress and good things to come in the future.

[Coltfreak]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

I would not judge Clark or the pick harshly on this game. He was supposed to be redshirted for the year and is now trusted into starting a game because of series of injuries. If anything a good/OK game would signify immense progress and good things to come in the future.

Which is why it was a stupid pick.  You don't use a 3rd round pick on someone that cant even take the field yet.  5th-7th. Sure, but we could have had someone that could've played this yr with that pick

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

Today we find out about our 3rd round draft pick. Several have commented on the fact that Grigson has gotten better in the draft but I am not so sure. While are last two drafts are sticking around you have to play somebody. I don't know if they are on the team do to being better picks or just because other roster movers were so poor. Last years draft you have Anderson ( I do not hold injury against a GM and hopefully he makes it all the way back). This year Kelly. The rest are still in air. Regardless if Clark plays poorly today then that has to be evaluated by Irsay.

 

Today, Clark is going to look very good.

 

AND.......

 

He's going to look very, very bad.

 

Playing AT Minnesota is a terrible place for a rookie offensive lineman.

 

It's a domed stadium.     It's going to be very loud.    It'll be hard if not impossible to hear the snap count.    Then you add the fact that the Vikings defense is very good and led by their D-line and it adds up to a recipe for trouble.

 

If Clark has a poor game it is NOT right to pass judgement on a game like this.     In the grand scheme of things he wasn't supposed to play at all this year beyond special teams.      He was not supposed to play regular snaps.

 

Arizona took Florida tackle DJ Humphrey last year and the Cardinals didn't even allow him to dress for a single game.      Didn't even play special teams.      He had a complete redshirt year.      This year Humphrey has started every game.      That's what was supposed to happen for Clark.       And yet,  he's starting today.

 

He'll have his good moments today.    But he's going to have some bad ones too.     Give the kid a chance.  

 

One game is NOT a fair chance.

 

 

[NorthernBlue]

1 minute ago, Coltfreak said:

Which is why it was a stupid pick.  You don't use a 3rd round pick on someone that cant even take the field yet.  5th-7th. Sure, but we could have had someone that could've played this yr with that pick

It's debatable. You can make a case going both ways. The Colts got a guy in the third round who won't play/be useful this season. That's bad value.

 

On the other hand, they got a guy, who they think can potentially turn out to be a 1st round talent-or better- with a lot of coaching. The cost being a 3rd rounder and a season. Is it worth it? Well if Clark works out, I don't see why not. But if it doesn't, obviously people will be up in arms.

 

By the way, Clark was being mocked as early as a late 1st by some draft gurus. Mock's aren't that important, so take that how you will.

 

And one more thing, Clark isn't as big of a project as some here think he is. He's got the talent and size to play RT. He just needs to learn how to play the position at the NFL level, since at Texas Tech I'm pretty sure he literally never came out of a 2 point stance.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I'm just freaking praying that Andrew can walk out of the stadium after the game.

[runthepost]

If he starts getting uncomfortable then have Allen chip the ends not block the ends

[Coltfreak]

15 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

It's debatable. You can make a case going both ways. The Colts got a guy in the third round who won't play/be useful this season. That's bad value.

 

On the other hand, they got a guy, who they think can potentially turn out to be a 1st round talent-or better- with a lot of coaching. The cost being a 3rd rounder and a season. Is it worth it? Well if Clark works out, I don't see why not. But if it doesn't, obviously people will be up in arms.

 

By the way, Clark was being mocked as early as a late 1st by some draft gurus. Mock's aren't that important, so take that how you will.

 

And one more thing, Clark isn't as big of a project as some here think he is. He's got the talent and size to play RT. He just needs to learn how to play the position at the NFL level, since at Texas Tech I'm pretty sure he literally never came out of a 2 point stance.

I would love to be wrong on this one 

[Colt Overseas]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Today, Clark is going to look very good.

 

AND.......

 

He's going to look very, very bad.

 

Playing AT Minnesota is a terrible place for a rookie offensive lineman.

 

It's a domed stadium.     It's going to be very loud.    It'll be hard if not impossible to hear the snap count.    Then you add the fact that the Vikings defense is very good and led by their D-line and it adds up to a recipe for trouble.

 

If Clark has a poor game it is NOT right to pass judgement on a game like this.     In the grand scheme of things he wasn't supposed to play at all this year beyond special teams.      He was not supposed to play regular snaps.

 

Arizona took Florida tackle DJ Humphrey last year and the Cardinals didn't even allow him to dress for a single game.      Didn't even play special teams.      He had a complete redshirt year.      This year Humphrey has started every game.      That's what was supposed to happen for Clark.       And yet,  he's starting today.

 

He'll have his good moments today.    But he's going to have some bad ones too.     Give the kid a chance.  

 

One game is NOT a fair chance.

 

 

 

Completely agree. 

 

There's no doubt he is going to get beat plenty of times in his career, that's the only way he will learn and better himself. That goes for the best of linemen. I hope he can have a solid performance, and something he can build on for the future.

 

[JMichael557]

Ridgeway was a good pick and Haig may turn out to be a good Pick. However your team really turns on picks 1-3 and that is where Grigson has failed miserably. I do not expect Clark to be all world today but I do expect him to be at least as good as Haig. The point is that this just gives Irsay more information to determine Grigson's fate.

[csmopar]

29 minutes ago, runthepost said:

If he starts getting uncomfortable then have Allen chip the ends not block the ends

we seen how well Allen blocks........... Clowney ring a bell?

[NorthernBlue]

There's no reason, especially with that defense against this O line, for the Colts to constantly be looking for the deep ball. Chud better have some short routes and a plan to get the ball out of Andrew's hand quickly. 

[Gavin]

Neither Jack or Dwayne have blocked well this season consistently actually.....some of that isplay design. Both are solid receiving TE's. Allen has gotten to much flack. Its a 16 game season. Players will have a handful of bad games a year no matter who your name is

 

As to Clark.....The key early on for him will be to give as good as he is getting and don't make a habit of oversetting and getting beat inside giving up a direct path to Luck. If he gets beat to the inside his long arms will much less affective. When he gets beat it needs to be around the arc. He needs to keep his hands up at all times

[runthepost]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

we seen how well Allen blocks........... Clowney ring a bell?

That's why I said chip the ends for Clark 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

4 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

It's debatable. You can make a case going both ways. The Colts got a guy in the third round who won't play/be useful this season. That's bad value.

 

On the other hand, they got a guy, who they think can potentially turn out to be a 1st round talent-or better- with a lot of coaching. The cost being a 3rd rounder and a season. Is it worth it? Well if Clark works out, I don't see why not. But if it doesn't, obviously people will be up in arms.

 

By the way, Clark was being mocked as early as a late 1st by some draft gurus. Mock's aren't that important, so take that how you will.

 

And one more thing, Clark isn't as big of a project as some here think he is. He's got the talent and size to play RT. He just needs to learn how to play the position at the NFL level, since at Texas Tech I'm pretty sure he literally never came out of a 2 point stance.

I see your point. However, going into off-season this team had plenty of holes, needs.

None of them were addressed in FA, in fact we lost 2 starters(ILB & vertical receiving TE). That made each of our draft picks so much more important and didn't afford us the luxury of using a 3rd rd. pick on a developmental pick, especially a OT which is extremely hard to get quality play from rookies.

[Bruce MacGillivray]

Have to love it when all the experts here get it wrong

[Coltfreak]

He has a ways to go but he did pretty well today.    There is hope

[jshipp23]

I was very impressed with Clark for his first game..Looked good in run blocking and held up in pass blocking..With added strength next year he will be a force at RT for us....Last 2 drafts by Grigson have been impressive...Injuries have hurt us more than anything...

[AZColt11]

44 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I was very impressed with Clark for his first game..Looked good in run blocking and held up in pass blocking..With added strength next year he will be a force at RT for us....Last 2 drafts by Grigson have been impressive...Injuries have hurt us more than anything...

.....and coaching.

[jshipp23]

6 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

.....and coaching.

I agree with that trust me...Didn't want to beat a dead horse though...We have talent on this team,  I think Grigson gets a bad rap....Pagano is the problem and has consistently held us back...

[jshipp23]

We aren't that far away, get a few difference makers on defense in free agency and PAY UP for them... Draft a thoroughbred RB and focus rest of the draft on defense and I think we will be a 12-4 contending team even if we keep Pagano...I really like our o-line now, and it will just get better and better ..

[AZColt11]

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I agree with that trust me...Didn't want to beat a dead horse though...We have talent on this team,  I think Grigson gets a bad rap....Pagano is the problem and has consistently held us back...

I would not say Grigs is infallible here.  His 2013 and 2014 drafts pretty much sucked and his FA's misses are more numerous than his hits.  I DO think he's gotten a bit better with these last 2 drafts, even though I'm not sure Dorsett was a 1st rounder.  But definitely better than 2013 and 2014.

[jshipp23]

Just now, AZColt11 said:

I would not say Grigs is infallible here.  His 2013 and 2014 drafts pretty much sucked and his FA's misses are more numerous than his hits.  I DO think he's gotten a bit better with these last 2 drafts, even though I'm not sure Dorsett was a 1st rounder.  But definitely better than 2013 and 2014.

Every GM has misses...The trent trade and werner pick haunts him...We never pick high in the draft either...He has also traded for Davis,  picked Walden and Adams and Jackson in F.A...Found guys like edwin jackson, freeman, swoope...I think he needs to go after after a few top level free agents instead of getting more mid-level guys..Last 2 drafts were good...1st draft was good..2 in the middle not so much, but they were bad drafts for a lot of teams those years weren't loaded with talent....      I haven't given up on Dorsett yet..

[AZColt11]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Every GM has misses...The trent trade and werner pick haunts him...We never pick high in the draft either...He has also traded for Davis,  picked Walden and Adams and Jackson in F.A...Found guys like edwin jackson, freeman, swoope...I think he needs to go after after a few top level free agents instead of getting more mid-level guys..Last 2 drafts were good...1st draft was good..2 in the middle not so much, but they were bad drafts for a lot of teams those years weren't loaded with talent....      I haven't given up on Dorsett yet..

Would agree, and I've been a Dorsett flag bearer to date.  I just think had we taken a pass-rusher 1st and gotten Dorsett in the 2nd then nobody would have much of an issue with him.  And I think he would have been around in the 2nd.  But definitely better of late.

[jshipp23]

In free agency make Jamie Collins #1 priority team him with EJax and use Morrison on run downs...Also grab a #2 corner and edge rusher pay for quality...

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

I see your point. However, going into off-season this team had plenty of holes, needs.

None of them were addressed in FA, in fact we lost 2 starters(ILB & vertical receiving TE). That made each of our draft picks so much more important and didn't afford us the luxury of using a 3rd rd. pick on a developmental pick, especially a OT which is extremely hard to get quality play from rookies.

Everyone in the draft is a developmental pick. The only exception is maybe RBs because the transition is pretty easy. But all players are developmental picks and there's no right or wrong place to draft guys like that.  Some players develop quicker than others, and those are usually the guys drafted super high.  Treadwell is having a redshirt year because he hasn't learned the playbook yet and is learning to run routes. And he was a 1st rounder l.

[RockThatBlue]

11 hours ago, stitches said:

I would not judge Clark or the pick harshly on this game. He was supposed to be redshirted for the year and is now trusted into starting a game because of series of injuries. If anything a good/OK game would signify immense progress and good things to come in the future.

I think immense progress was signaled. He played pretty dang good.

[RockThatBlue]

10 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

There's no reason, especially with that defense against this O line, for the Colts to constantly be looking for the deep ball. Chud better have some short routes and a plan to get the ball out of Andrew's hand quickly. 

I think Chud read your post NB.

[NorthernBlue]

38 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think Chud read your post NB.

The way the offense looked today........I mean that's the way I want them looking every week. Don't necessarily lean on the running game, but use it as a compliment to the short passing game, to allow Luck and co to get in rhythm.  Take your deep shots when they're there, and use precise strikes to find first downs and keep the other teams offense off the field.

 

I would like to see a balanced offense, not one that lives and dies by the long ball. Yes, that is the strength of this team, and even when the other team has the vertical routes shut down, the Colts still find ways to get TY open for a big play (check, last week). But a balanced approach to offense is not only more sustainable I think, but all around benefits everybody (and helps cover for deficiencies) on the team. The RBs, the WRs, the TEs, the QB and most importantly, the O line.

[Dark Superman]

I can see Ridgeway becoming a stud. If the Colts can add some LB talent and continue to add pieces this defense could potentially be good.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think immense progress was signaled. He played pretty dang good.

I think he didn't embarrass himself, which is all we could ask at this point and against this sort of competition really. Without me analyzing every snap(meaning that's what is my impression while watching the game, not watching him specifically), it seemed like he was getting pushed back quite a bit in pass protection. He seems to need more work in the gym and on maintaining his leverage, but his crazy length showed up a few times where he gave Luck just enough time to get rid off the ball before the defender reached him.

[akcolt]

8 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

I was very impressed with Clark for his first game..Looked good in run blocking and held up in pass blocking..With added strength next year he will be a force at RT for us....Last 2 drafts by Grigson have been impressive...Injuries have hurt us more than anything...

The last 2 drafts have been impressive? 2015 the first 2 days we took 1st Dorsett 3rd Smith & Anderson. That's not very impressive to me.

 

Last year we went with Kelly Green Clark. The jury is still out on TJ and Clark. You have to hit a high percentage the first two days to build. We have not. 

 

The lack of talent is on Grig's. 

 

 

 

[jshipp23]

3 hours ago, akcolt said:

The last 2 drafts have been impressive? 2015 the first 2 days we took 1st Dorsett 3rd Smith & Anderson. That's not very impressive to me.

 

Last year we went with Kelly Green Clark. The jury is still out on TJ and Clark. You have to hit a high percentage the first two days to build. We have not. 

 

The lack of talent is on Grig's. 

 

 

 

Anderson, Parry, Goode, and Geathers??? Dorsett is talented as well, it took Wayne 3 years to start emerging..It's a confidence thing for Dorsett right now as well as not getting opportunities. ...He had a bad game lots of drops and now he is a bum....Give him another year...Imo Grigsons worst mistake was taking Werner when he could've grabbed Xavier Rhoades...Even Belichik misses plenty in the draft and free agency, difference is he is the greatest COACH of all time...At the time of Richardson trade we were desperate..At the time many were for it...

[Jdubu]

21 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Which is why it was a stupid pick.  You don't use a 3rd round pick on someone that cant even take the field yet.  5th-7th. Sure, but we could have had someone that could've played this yr with that pick

I don't know whether or not Clark will or won't be a dynamic player or not but you can just relate this pick to a guy who is picked high first round, gets his knee blown out in training camp and has his first season wiped out. Comes back and plays next year and has to still get up to NFL speed and skill level. At least our pick was a 3rd round pick with high praise from many and he was abale to learn at a slower pace (even if we really needed another player to play this year) and he was able to contribute finally late this season. At least he didn't embarrass himself in the game or get Luck killed.

 

So the moral here is, he wasn't a high first round picked lost to season injury before starting and he was a 3rd pick. If he comes back to start at RT and looks like what they thought he would become, isn't that a win?

[Jdubu]

21 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Ridgeway was a good pick and Haig may turn out to be a good Pick. However your team really turns on picks 1-3 and that is where Grigson has failed miserably. I do not expect Clark to be all world today but I do expect him to be at least as good as Haig. The point is that this just gives Irsay more information to determine Grigson's fate.

So now Grigson can walk into Irsays office today and say see, I told you this is what me and my scouts saw in this young man. What's Irsay's response? Nice job Griggs!!

[Jdubu]

39 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Anderson, Parry, Goode, and Geathers??? Dorsett is talented as well, it took Wayne 3 years to start emerging..It's a confidence thing for Dorsett right now as well as not getting opportunities. ...He had a bad game lots of drops and now he is a bum....Give him another year...Imo Grigsons worst mistake was taking Werner when he could've grabbed Xavier Rhoades...Even Belichik misses plenty in the draft and free agency, difference is he is the greatest COACH of all time...At the time of Richardson trade we were desperate..At the time many were for it...

I agree with everything you said here except even though we were desparate, I still would never ever have given up a first round pick for any RB. Bell and Elliot are maybe as close to I would go in offering that up right now but Trent wasn't that guy. Wasn't happy when I first heard it and never changed my mind. He was an absolute coach killer. I'm shocked Pagano survived that. 

[Colt Overseas]

10 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

The way the offense looked today........I mean that's the way I want them looking every week. Don't necessarily lean on the running game, but use it as a compliment to the short passing game, to allow Luck and co to get in rhythm.  Take your deep shots when they're there, and use precise strikes to find first downs and keep the other teams offense off the field.

 

I would like to see a balanced offense, not one that lives and dies by the long ball. Yes, that is the strength of this team, and even when the other team has the vertical routes shut down, the Colts still find ways to get TY open for a big play (check, last week). But a balanced approach to offense is not only more sustainable I think, but all around benefits everybody (and helps cover for deficiencies) on the team. The RBs, the WRs, the TEs, the QB and most importantly, the O line.

 

Agreed, the sad thing is we have actually seen the Colts play like this before, against the Broncos and Pats last year and against the Lions this year. We are here against this week all agreeing that this is the vision for the offense we want to see going forward. 

 

But will it happen...