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For the older people: Elway didn't want to play for the Irsays, right?

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1 minute ago, JColts72 said:

True, he did not want to play for the father and Coach Kursh. That was a horrible trade deal with Denver. It set the Colts way back except fro the brief time with Dickerson and until Peyton arrived.

Jason Whotlock and Cowherd was talking about how horribly this organization is rum and Whitlock mentioned Elway and his unwillingness to play for the Irsays.  I bet Jim wouldn't even give Peyton control like Elway has in Denver.  

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2 minutes ago, YourNextGM said:

Jason Whotlock and Cowherd was talking about how horribly this organization is rum and Whitlock mentioned Elway and his unwillingness to play for the Irsays.  I bet Jim wouldn't even give Peyton control like Elway has in Denver.  

Elway was  sleek as he used the Yankees as leverage. 30 for 30 had 83 draft special on that 1st round and there was a possible offer for Danny White and/or their monster d player, Randy?? 

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Elway did not want to play for Robert Irsay and he had other options.

 

Only a complete * though would compare a Robert Irsay run organization to a Jim Irsay run organization.  I, like many, think Grigson is a bad GM, but making a bad hire does not mean it's a poorly run organization it just means it was a bad hire.

 

It's obvious that Jim Irsay loves the Colts and the city if Indy and he has made it his life.  Robert Irsay made it clear that he wanted to own a football team, he didn't care which team he owned, he did not care about the players or the organization, he only cared for what owning an NFL team did for him.

 

But Jim Irsay, who does things like took a player, Gill, who played a few snaps in two games for the Colts in the regular season, when it was discovered had a serious drinking problem(found in a ditch, barefoot and unable to stand or talk), paid for his rehab and kept him on the roster so he would get a paycheck while going through rehab.  Or giving a SB ring to Edge, because as Irsay told him, he may not have been on the active roster when the Colts won the Superbowl but he was still a Colt and responsible for helping the Colts get there.

 

No, the Colts are in a spot because of some bad hires and bad decisions but that is not the same as a poorly run organization, especially not poorly run like his father did.

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3 hours ago, JColts72 said:

True, he did not want to play for the father and Coach Kursh. That was a horrible trade deal with Denver. It set the Colts way back except fro the brief time with Dickerson and until Peyton arrived.

No.

 

He didn't want to play for the Colts who were door mats when Elway came out.

Had nothing to do with Irsay if I remember correctly

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3 hours ago, YourNextGM said:

Jason Whotlock and Cowherd was talking about how horribly this organization is rum and Whitlock mentioned Elway and his unwillingness to play for the Irsays.  I bet Jim wouldn't even give Peyton control like Elway has in Denver.  

 

I already regret engaging on this absolutely inane and thoughtless topic, but I can't help it... 

 

Why should Peyton be given control of anything, anywhere? Because he used to play for the Colts? That's not how it works, and it's not why/how Elway got control in Denver.

 

John Elway is an experienced and accomplished businessman, with several successful businesses that he has owned and/or operated over the past 30 years. For seven years, he owned and ran a successful AFL team, and was eventually made chairman of the executive committee. Over a couple of years, he was offered and worked his way into a high level position with the Broncos, but wasn't calling all the shots. He had a head coach and a GM who were in charge of personnel. Elway's role was one of oversight and stewardship. It wasn't until 2012 that Elway became GM and was in charge of day to day football operations.

 

That's 14 years after he retired, and spent all that time running businesses and learning team management and whatnot. He has never been a figurehead, he's a businessman who understands the business world, and understands the business of football. As much as anyone else, he has earned his position as GM of the Broncos. He wasn't given anything.

 

Peyton Manning should not be given anything. If he wants to work in a front office or as a GM -- and there's no certainty that he does, by the way -- he should work his way into it, learn the business, work with some smart, experienced people, and get his bearings as an executive. Then maybe, at some point a few years down the line, he'll qualify for consideration. Until then, it's nonsensical to prattle on about Irsay not giving Manning control of his football team. 

 

/rant

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7 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

Welp, I'm off the forum for the week. Its amazing what losses can do to this place. This is getting out of hand lol 

 

I'll be back Friday or so to update you guys on injuries & all that good stuff 

Appreciate it!

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9 hours ago, YourNextGM said:

 

I'm hard on Andrew,  but he screwed up coming here.  I don't know his options,  but he should have pulled an Eli or just became an architect.  

 

Elway's objection had to do with Jim Irsay's FATHER,  not Jim.

 

And it had to do with the HC,  Frank Kush.

 

It has NOTHING to do with Jim.      I doubt Jim Irsay was on anyone's radar back in the early 80's.

 

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9 hours ago, JColts72 said:

True, he did not want to play for the father and Coach Kursh. That was a horrible trade deal with Denver. It set the Colts way back except fro the brief time with Dickerson and until Peyton arrived.

Colts got Chris Hinton, Mark Herman, and picks that became Ron Solt and Rohn Stark, if I remember right.  Three of those four became All Pro, so I'm totally sure it set them back as far as the story is told...

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Elway's objection had to do with Jim Irsay's FATHER,  not Jim.

 

And it had to do with the HC,  Frank Kush.

 

It has NOTHING to do with Jim.      I doubt Jim Irsay was on anyone's radar back in the early 80's.

 

Correct. Jim Irsay had nothing to do with any of this. It was his father who Elway didn't want to play for but it was also 2 other factors = he didn't want to play in the city of Baltimore which has bad winters and at the time had a crappy field, and he didn't want to play for Frank Kush. Regarding Jim Irsay here in Indianapolis, he has ran the Colts really well since the late 90's as owner. He shouldn't have given Pagano and Grigs those extensions but that is called making a couple of bad decisions. Since Jim Irsay has taken over as owner we have the 2nd most Regular Season wins in the NFL and have won a Lombardi trophy but no matter how much you preach this to the people that think Jim Irsay is a bad owner they seem to not be able to get it through their thick head.

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2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Something to think about. What if Elway did play for the colts?

At that time we were a terribly run team starting at the top. Would Elway have led the colts to any super bowls? Would Elway have had a hall of fame career?

Colts never would have got Manning if Elway stayed probably. The Colts almost made the SB with Harbaugh and had a good core in the late 80s so it's possible they may have made a SB or 2 with Elway.  As it was they needed SD to do something stupid and win their last game of 1997. 

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Elways dad coached Stanford and hated Kush who was ASU coach and repeatedly kicked his asterisk. Elway threatening baseball , asking to be traded was his father's thing and he went along with it. I don't think John, at 21 or whatever had that much to do with it besides being a pawn in a beef and Bob Irsay became an excuse. 

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3 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

Colts never would have got Manning if Elway stayed probably. The Colts almost made the SB with Harbaugh and had a good core in the late 80s so it's possible they may have made a SB or 2 with Elway.  As it was they needed SD to do something stupid and win their last game of 1997. 

Very true and as much as I think Elway was a Great QB, Manning was better IMO.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Very true and as much as I think Elway was a Great QB, Manning was better IMO.

Manning was a considerably better passer . Only Bob Kravitz thinks Elway was the goat. In fact, in Elways prime he was considered about the 3rd, 4th best QB. Montana, Marino , etc. He hung around long enough to get 2 rings, but those teams won because of TD number one and a dominant Oline 2. The AFC was considerably weaker than the NFC  back then in the 80s and the Broncos were a good team but they got killed in those SB like nobodys business. 

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10 hours ago, YourNextGM said:

Jason Whotlock and Cowherd was talking about how horribly this organization is rum and Whitlock mentioned Elway and his unwillingness to play for the Irsays.  I bet Jim wouldn't even give Peyton control like Elway has in Denver.  

Chris Hinton was a good player . That being said, they passed on trade offers much better early, Irsay still wouldn't budge off making Elway stay, and then when it became clear Elway meant business they panicked and made a weak trade. I think the best offer they got was from the Raiders , who offered all kinds of picks, a Cowboys deal before the Boys Vikings thing with Walker. 

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Just now, mahagga73 said:

Manning was a considerably better passer . Only Bob Kravitz thinks Elway was the goat. In fact, in Elways prime he was considered about the 3rd, 4th best QB. Montana, Marino , etc. He hung around long enough to get 2 rings, but those teams won because of TD number one and a dominant Oline 2. 

I was too young to see Unitas play live but have seen film on him and know of his accolades. A Top 5 list could easily look like this Montana 1, Unitas 2, Brady 3, Manning 4, Elway 5 for example. I would put Elway in my Top 5 so it was close between he and Manning. One thing that separates Manning from almost everyone is his ability to change into the right play at the line and also carry a bad team. Accolades wise nobody will ever win 5 League MVP's either like he did or win 2 SB's with 2 different teams as a starter.

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15 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Something to think about. What if Elway did play for the colts?

At that time we were a terribly run team starting at the top. Would Elway have led the colts to any super bowls? Would Elway have had a hall of fame career?

No.  Can't change just one man in history, and have things stay as they happened.

 

From the 1980s Colts, take off Chris Hinton, Ron Solt, Rohn Stark and Mark Herman. We got those in return for Elway.  Then the Colts lost enough to draft Cornelius Bennet, and when he held out- trade him for Eric Dickerson.  So, I can guess that comes down to no one to block for Elway, and no one except Randy McMillan to run the ball.

 

Here's the 1983 Colts roster. I don't see Elway taking that bunch to any Super Bowls...

 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/baltimore-colts/roster/1983

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