Will Pagano get another Head Coaching job?

[AlanNC]

I don't think he will get another NFL head coach but College maybe.  He is really just a good coordinator acting as head coach.

[jimmy g]

1 hour ago, GoColtsWin said:

 Hard to stay ahead of the rest of the league(coaching-wise), unless you're Hoodie. JMO

I HATE saying this, but the Pats probably practiced defending against that stupid 2 man punt gimmick 100 times more than we practiced running it.

[Jason_]

5 hours ago, jeepnkal said:

2-4. lol

 

 

6-3 withOUT Luck.  1-0 in games starting a QB who's been with the team less than a week.  3 seasons of 11-5 with all of the FA blunders and wasted draft picks. 

 

So...lol back at ya

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

I said it years ago that Irsay was going to regret letting Bruce Arians go.

 

What's ol Bruce's  record so far this year with that significantly superior arizona roster?

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Another "uplifting" post.....

[GoColtsWin]

1 hour ago, jimmy g said:

I HATE saying this, but the Pats probably practiced defending against that stupid 2 man punt gimmick 100 times more than we practiced running it.

Yeah I hear you. Just tired of the gimmick plays, this staff seems to implement from time to time. It wreaks of unpreparedness and poor concepts/coaching. Just need sound football. You would think we could get that out of these grossly overpaid athletes/coaches/owners. 

[Mr Coffee]

10 hours ago, krunk said:

I seem to remember this guy named Romeo Crennel that got 2 head coaching jobs and he is definitely not somebody who should be a head coach.   See no reason why Pagano would not.

True, but Crennel is actually a decent to good DC.  Chuck had one year as a DC with one of the best linebackers to ever play the game, a HOF safety, and two other pro bowlers.  The truth is that no one really knows if Chuck is even a good DC.  Crennel at least has years of proving that he is, which is why he kept getting HC offers.

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, jeepnkal said:

And that has got us?

 

 

2012:   11-5       0-1 playoffs

2013:   11-5       1-1 playoffs

2014    11-5       2-1 playoffs

2015      8-8       Without Luck for 9 games, used 5 QB's

2016      TBA

 

The Big Picture problems we have are with the roster.    The coaching is much less the issue.     And that's what you see if you have "open eyes"...

 

[ztboiler]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

2012:   11-5       0-1 playoffs

2013:   11-5       1-1 playoffs

2014    11-5       2-1 playoffs

2015      8-8       Without Luck for 9 games, used 5 QB's

2016      TBA

 

The Big Picture problems we have are with the roster.    The coaching is much less the issue.     And that's what you see if you have "open eyes"...

 

"Open eyes" needs to lead to more questions about what has changed since 2014 than simply a lack of talent on D.

 

2014 was a flawed D without playmakers that still made some timely stops, manufactured a pass rush of 41 sacks, and held its own against teams not named NE and Pitt.

 

We can allow a new staff some time to figure things out....but there is no less talent on this D than there was in 2014.  As of now, we have a glaring coaching issue to accompany obvious roster shortages.

[throwing BBZ]

Now i am just going along with the theme here.
How about Irsay trading Chucky for a couple 2nd rounders?
Go Chuckie Go! No really, i mean Gooooo.  lol

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ztboiler said:

"Open eyes" needs to lead to more questions about what has changed since 2014 than simply a lack of talent on D.

 

2014 was a flawed D without playmakers that still made some timely stops, manufactured a pass rush of 41 sacks, and held its own against teams not named NE and Pitt.

 

We can allow a new staff some time to figure things out....but there is no less talent on this D than there was in 2014.  As of now, we have a glaring coaching issue to accompany obvious roster shortages.

 

A rare disagreement for you and I....

 

The talent is older.     Two years older.     They were old then,  and they're much older now.

 

We have at least 7 guys who play a lot on defensewho are 30 or over....   to my knowledge,  that's the most in the NFL this year.      That was one of the reasons given why the analytics people didn't like the Colts this past off-season.

 

They basically said too old.     Have that many old guys and you can lose games in the last 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter as we have done so many times this season.      At some point,  not only are you out of gas, and grasping instead of tackling,   but no one can make a play.        We could make a play two years ago....    we can't anymore.

 

For what it's worth the 30+ club is  Jones, Langford,  Mathis, DQJ,  Walden,  Adams, Cole.     

 

[SurfinKal]

You Pagano defenders are incredible! The dudes a hack. Regression, the inablility to prepare his players and overall lack of game management are reasons the man should continue to be a HC? Thats what he has displayed since coaching here.

[SurfinKal]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

2012:   11-5       0-1 playoffs

2013:   11-5       1-1 playoffs

2014    11-5       2-1 playoffs

2015      8-8       Without Luck for 9 games, used 5 QB's

2016      TBA

 

The Big Picture problems we have are with the roster.    The coaching is much less the issue.     And that's what you see if you have "open eyes"...

 

Are you trying to prove a point by not winning super bowls?

 

And becuase i didnt mention the roster or Grigson doesnt mean i dont think he should take a long walk off a short pier too. That being said, Pags couldnt win the big one with Luck QB'ing Denvers roster. His game management is that bad.

[ztboiler]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

A rare disagreement for you and I....

 

The talent is older.     Two years older.     They were old then,  and they're much older now.

 

We have at least 7 guys who play a lot on defensewho are 30 or over....   to my knowledge,  that's the most in the NFL this year.      That was one of the reasons given why the analytics people didn't like the Colts this past off-season.

 

They basically said too old.     Have that many old guys and you can lose games in the last 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter as we have done so many times this season.      At some point,  not only are you out of gas, and grasping instead of tackling,   but no one can make a play.        We could make a play two years ago....    we can't anymore.

 

For what it's worth the 30+ club is  Jones, Langford,  Mathis, DQJ,  Walden,  Adams, Cole.     

 

Looking at it from the perspective of age as the causal agent gets pretty thin, when you go thru the specifics of roster and role comparison year to year.

 

Take out Cole and Jones.  Neither have played a significant role YTD and Jones didn't factor much in 2014.

 

Langford is a younger and more effective player than the man he replaced - Redding

 

Mathis maps to Werner, who is out of the league at any age....

 

Walden is having more impact as a pass rusher, not less.

 

Adams has seen no fall off that objective analysis can cite.  Terence Newman at 38 sends his regards.

 

I'm not a fan of DQ physically and never was, but his leadership component is still in the mix and it's hard to say he is much diminished from the limited guy we signed in 2014.  Never could and never will tackle anyone in space.

 

We need to look further than age.  Our DL is better, our ILBs  are worse w/o Freeman, OLB'S are no worse, and secondary is better if you like the safeties better like I do.  

 

2014 should inspire more questions than age addresses.

 

 

 

[OHColtfan]

If "Mr. 7-9" Jeff Fisher can be a HC in this league for years, if Pagano goes, he will get hired somewhere else at some point.  The NFL loves numbers and statistics, so his previous record (one year of which he really can't take credit for) will get him another job if he wants it.

 

It is just hard to see exactly what difference Pagano makes as a HC. Yes his players like him, but he doesn't seem to have a scheme or game plan or in game adjustments or any kind of specialty that makes him stand out. Can't really think of anything he has done that makes you say, "what an adjustment" or "that game plan really worked".  I like the guy, but I really can't point to anything really excellent he does (besides repeating tired platitudes) as a coach that makes me want to defend him or keep him here.

[Buddy Lee]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:56 AM, jeepnkal said:

This morning i went for a surf with a friend who is a SD Chargers fan and we talked about the coaching issues for both teams. I made the joke that after this season Pags will get fired and the only team crazy enough to pick him up as a head coach would be the Chargers.  We both laughed it off, but it got me thinking. After the well documented * poor head coaching job that he has done in Indianapolis would any team really want him? The guy is responsible for multiple ridiculous plays capped by the punt/hike against New England. IMO the guy should be handing gatorade to players on the bench.

Well he could have them chopping wood.

[OffensivelyPC]

21 hours ago, jeepnkal said:

2-4. lol

 

Just dont act all surprised if he isnt fired after this season.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, jeepnkal said:

You Pagano defenders are incredible! The dudes a hack. Regression, the inablility to prepare his players and overall lack of game management are reasons the man should continue to be a HC? Thats what he has displayed since coaching here.

You are confusing people making contrary arguments as them being apologetic. Theres a such thing as playing devil's advocate without actually being the devil's advocate.  So why dont you just relax a little bit and talk footbalk without taking things so seriously. 

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, jeepnkal said:

You Pagano defenders are incredible! The dudes a hack. Regression

 

This season has been the first real sign of regression.  Up until Luck's injury last year, the team had PROGRESSED further each season.

 

Quote

, the inablility to prepare his players and overall lack of game management are reasons the man should continue to be a HC?

 

you don't progress further every year if you can't prepare players and if you lack game management skills....especially with questionable roster talent.  He's made mistakes, yes that's true...so has every single coach that has ever coached at any level. 

[Malakai432]

If Caldwell can do it, Pagano can do it!

[crazycolt1]

23 hours ago, BOTT said:

Here come the recycled defenses of Chuckles.

 

Chuck shouldn't get another HC job, but the NFL is full people who make horrible football decisions.  

On a different note finding the right combination of GMs, HCs and coaches is not as easy as you sitting behind your PC saying what should and shouldn't be done.

You have a problem with some who in your opinion defend Chuck because it don't match your opinion.

So much so you make it a point when the thread isn't even about what your talking about.

Good or bad knowing what you have and the unknown are two different things.

You call it the recycle of defending Chuck. How is recycling the negativity pointed at Chuck any different from the point of view who don't share your opinion?

Because I think Chuck does not need firing does not mean I am defending his decisions on the field. It goes deeper than that. It involves the whole picture as to the results of firing Chuck and the effects it could have on the team.

Patience was shown to Polian when it took him how many years to put a team together that could even win a playoff game? Nine years went by before a super bowl was won.

IMO patience is what is needed. If you don't agree that is fine but having an attitude against those who don't agree with your opinion sucks.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, jeepnkal said:

Are you trying to prove a point by not winning super bowls?

 

And becuase i didnt mention the roster or Grigson doesnt mean i dont think he should take a long walk off a short pier too. That being said, Pags couldnt win the big one with Luck QB'ing Denvers roster. His game management is that bad.

 

News Flash!      Only one team out of 32 can win the Super Bowl in any given year.      We didn't have teams that were good enough to win in 12, 13 or 14.      15 got wiped out by injuries.     

 

You think there aren't fans just like you who think their coach and GM suck and should be able to win the Super Bowl?

 

Here's the difference between us.....    you see the first three year and think,  the Colts should've done better.

 

I, and frankly, most others here,  see the first three years and think we mostly over achieved because of Luck and because rosters that are not filled with much talent play hard for Chuck Pagano.     That's his reputation.    Players play hard for him.       That's why we've gotten the most out of mediocre rosters.

 

And that's where we are now.    Another mediocre roster that is filled with guys 30 and over on defense.    We don't stop other teams because we're not coached all that well.      We don't stop the opponents because we don't have much defensive talent and the talent we have is old.   

 

 

[ztboiler]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

This season has been the first real sign of regression.  Up until Luck's injury last year, the team had PROGRESSED further each season.

 

 

you don't progress further every year if you can't prepare players and if you lack game management skills....especially with questionable roster talent.  He's made mistakes, yes that's true...so has every single coach that has ever coached at any level. 

Pagano does and should get every chance to turn this around, but preparation has always been an issue ie. Slow starts.  Preparation is the reason that Irsay didn't extend him in 2015, or so it would seem.

 

Completely agree that game management has not been a weakness overall. Thats just been a popular headline this year.

[richard pallo]

21 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

I said it years ago that Irsay was going to regret letting Bruce Arians go.

I don't think there is much Irsay could have done to prevent him from taking a head coaching job with another team.  You can refuse a teams request to interview but that's not going to make him happy.  Not to mention it would probably hurt your chances of hiring other assistants knowing , if they do a good job , there is a chance you could hold them back.  Chuck's job was also safe given the circumstances so as they say "timing is everything".  It just didn't work out in our case. 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, ztboiler said:

Looking at it from the perspective of age as the causal agent gets pretty thin, when you go thru the specifics of roster and role comparison year to year.

 

Take out Cole and Jones.  Neither have played a significant role YTD and Jones didn't factor much in 2014.

 

Langford is a younger and more effective player than the man he replaced - Redding

 

Mathis maps to Werner, who is out of the league at any age....

 

Walden is having more impact as a pass rusher, not less.

 

Adams has seen no fall off that objective analysis can cite.  Terence Newman at 38 sends his regards.

 

I'm not a fan of DQ physically and never was, but his leadership component is still in the mix and it's hard to say he is much diminished from the limited guy we signed in 2014.  Never could and never will tackle anyone in space.

 

We need to look further than age.  Our DL is better, our ILBs  are worse w/o Freeman, OLB'S are no worse, and secondary is better if you like the safeties better like I do.  

 

2014 should inspire more questions than age addresses.

 

 

 

 

We're still not seeing the same thing....

 

Cole and Jones were expected to perform key rolls.    Jones missed the first month and now is playing his way into shape.     Langford has been hurt and playing at less than 100 percent and is slowly rounding into shape.

 

Werner didn't play that much.    Mathis was supposed to be our one defender who could bring pressure.    He's not.     So, no comparison.

 

Walden is having a surprisingly good year.

 

Adams has seen no fall off?      Are we watching the same game?     Our pass defense gets shredded every week.      He's got to be responsible for some of that.      And citing Terrenece Newman playing well at 38 doesn't advance your argument.     Anyone can find an exception to the rule.

 

Ultimately the point is....   all of these guys were supposed to help.    And they're not very much.    Who is supposed to stop opposing offenses?

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I definitely could see Pagano getting another Head Coaching job if we did fire him. Caldwell did. In Luck's first 3 years nobody had any complaints about Pagano. He went 2-2 in his first season = games actually Coached, then 11-5 two years in a row + a deep Playoff run. Some bad team would hire him IMO after firing their Coach.

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Just dont act all surprised if he isnt fired after this season.

I will be shocked.  Then again, I was shocked last year.

[BOTT]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I definitely could see Pagano getting another Head Coaching job if we did fire him. Caldwell did. In Luck's first 3 years nobody had any complaints about Pagano. He went 2-2 in his first season = games actually Coached, then 11-5 two years in a row + a deep Playoff run. Some bad team would hire him IMO after firing their Coach.

Oh, people had complaints......

 

but people will defend him with the "Mark Sanchez" argument.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Oh, people had complaints......

 

but people will defend him with the "Mark Sanchez" argument.

Yeah there were complaints but not like now. I should've said minimal complaints instead of nobody had any. I never have thought he has been a Great Coach but he did Good his first 3 seasons here.

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah there were complaints but not like now. I should've said minimal complaints instead of nobody had any. I never have thought he has been a Great Coach but he though he did Good his first 3 seasons here.

It's a weird team.  Even when they were making the playoffs, they looked like the gang that couldn't shoot straight just as often as they looked like contenders.

 

my biggest problem with Chuck?  I don't think he's overly intelligent.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

It's a weird team.  Even when they were making the playoffs, they looked like the gang that couldn't shoot straight just as often as they looked like contenders.

 

my biggest problem with Chuck?  I don't think he's overly intelligent.  

Yeah even when we were winning in 2013 and 2014 the team was just getting by with a ton of close wins. Having said that, the sign of a Good team is closing games to our credit and Coaching deserves some credit there. I mean down 38-10 to KC in the Playoffs and we comeback and close for example. We haven't done that this season. Sorry for the typo's, I corrected them above but you had already copied my Post . 

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah even when we were winning in 2013 and 2014 the team was just getting by with a ton of close wins. Having said that, the sign of a Good team is closing games to our credit and Coaching deserves some credit there. I mean down 38-10 to KC in the Playoffs and we comeback and close for example. We haven't done that this season. Sorry for the typo's, I corrected them above but you had already copied my Post . 

I'm talking about when the team gets blown out or just doesn't look like a team that's prepared to play.  Honestly, even during the first few years of this era, I never believed this team was really all that good.

[ztboiler]

48 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're still not seeing the same thing....

 

Cole and Jones were expected to perform key rolls.    Jones missed the first month and now is playing his way into shape.     Langford has been hurt and playing at less than 100 percent and is slowly rounding into shape.

 

Werner didn't play that much.    Mathis was supposed to be our one defender who could bring pressure.    He's not.     So, no comparison.

 

Walden is having a surprisingly good year.

 

Adams has seen no fall off?      Are we watching the same game?     Our pass defense gets shredded every week.      He's got to be responsible for some of that.      And citing Terrenece Newman playing well at 38 doesn't advance your argument.     Anyone can find an exception to the rule.

 

Ultimately the point is....   all of these guys were supposed to help.    And they're not very much.    Who is supposed to stop opposing offenses?

 

Ahhh, I started to respond but caught myself when I re-read your post.  We aren't going to get there from here.

[OffensivelyPC]

57 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I will be shocked.  Then again, I was shocked last year.

To me, the deficiencies with this team were so obvious it couldnt be done in one offseason. It just couldnt.

 

I have to believe that if our owner is ever going to put together a SB winning organization, he knew that when he offered the extensions.  Assuming all that, you dont give an HC and GM a 4 year extension knowing theres a high probability they arent sniffing the SB this year, and then fire them when they dont. 

 

So i mean, if their job hinges on making the playoffs, then Irsay shouldve just been smart enough to cut ties this past offseason. And if he wasnt, we are just throwing away 2016. Because, * it, continuity.

 

So to me, these guys are getting minimum 2 years and the real potential of getting fired depends on the 2017 season.  Thats why i say no one should be surprised if they're brought back.

[BOTT]

18 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

To me, the deficiencies with this team were so obvious it couldnt be done in one offseason. It just couldnt.

 

I have to believe that if our owner is ever going to put together a SB winning organization, he knew that when he offered the extensions.  Assuming all that, you dont give an HC and GM a 4 year extension knowing theres a high probability they arent sniffing the SB this year, and then fire them when they dont. 

 

So i mean, if their job hinges on making the playoffs, then Irsay shouldve just been smart enough to cut ties this past offseason. And if he wasnt, we are just throwing away 2016. Because, * it, continuity.

 

So to me, these guys are getting minimum 2 years and the real potential of getting fired depends on the 2017 season.  Thats why i say no one should be surprised if they're brought back.

 

i don't think for a second he believed this team would look this bad and be bottom dwellers in the worst division in football. Chuck still looks like a bumbling fool and Grigson has proven once again he is clueles in free agency.

 

If Jimbo gives those two 6 years, he deserves what he gets.

[OffensivelyPC]

12 hours ago, BOTT said:

 

i don't think for a second he believed this team would look this bad and be bottom dwellers in the worst division in football. Chuck still looks like a bumbling fool and Grigson has proven once again he is clueles in free agency.

 

If Jimbo gives those two 6 years, he deserves what he gets.

we will see. Theres not a lot that separates playoff losers and bottom dwellers except draft positioning after you lose...and no one shouldve expected a super bowl appearance.

[King Colt]

The Packers are hinting at firing the head coach. Maybe the selection of candidates will influence Irsay.

[coltsva]

22 hours ago, King Colt said:

The Packers are hinting at firing the head coach. Maybe the selection of candidates will influence Irsay.

That's always a key factor. Who else is out there?

Do you hire a mediocre retread? 

Do you hire an unproven college guy or coordinator? 

Now if Harbaugh called Irsay and said "if the Colts job opens up, I'm interested," I think Pagano would be gone. But how many unemployed coaches are out there who want to coach again, want to coach the Colts, and are a clear upgrade. 

 

 

[BOTT]

9 minutes ago, coltsva said:

That's always a key factor. Who else is out there?

Do you hire a mediocre retread? 

Do you hire an unproven college guy or coordinator? 

Now if Harbaugh called Irsay and said "if the Colts job opens up, I'm interested," I think Pagano would be gone. But how many unemployed coaches are out there who want to coach again, want to coach the Colts, and are a clear upgrade. 

 

 

Clear upgrade wouldn't be difficult.   That's like fretting over the replacement of a 2002 Pontiac Aztec.

[coltsva]

6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Clear upgrade wouldn't be difficult.   That's like fretting over the replacement of a 2002 Pontiac Aztec.

LOL, I like that. I do agree that an upgrade is out there, and I'd be willing to try another "hot prospect" if the only other alternative was keeping Pagano.