Who Was Against Irsay's Decision To Retain Grigs/Pags From The Get Go?

[RollerColt]

7 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

You're wrong bro. Tell me this. With a franchise QB, probably high draft picks, over 60 million in cap space this offseason, and other really good pieces on offense.

Yeah, overreaction Monday got the best of me. The cap space is nice, I just hope we make the most out of that and not get aging vets past their prime...

[theanarchist]

On 10/17/2016 at 0:05 AM, presto123 said:

 Just wondering.......As soon as I heard the decision come down, I knew the writing was on the wall. Irsay made a huge mistake. Let me know which side of the fence you fell on at the time Irsay was making the decision. I felt like Pagano was brought here to be a defensive guru and he did very little to earn a second chance. Part of that was on Grigson which is why both of them should have been fired. Now we can only hope Irsay wakes up and sees the error of his ways.

I wanted Grigson gone but was willing to give Chuck another shot. There's a lot of season left and I'm really hoping Pagano can right this ship but I have no faith in Grigson and I see no reason to continue to let him make the personnel decisions of this team.

[lollygagger8]

I thought both them getting fired was a forgone conclusion. 

 

I was as certain of that, as I was with the Colts calling Xavier Rhodes' name in the 2013 draft. 

 

 

But we all know how both of those things turned out. 

[Rackeen305]

On 10/18/2016 at 6:55 PM, BOTT said:

This just in....BA and Chuck are close friends off the field.  He wasn't going to back stab his friend while he was fighting cancer.

 

i don't know who the rest of that rant was directed at.

Huh? stop taking things to the couch. if he didn't wanna take the job then that's 1 thing, if the job was never offered that'd another. there was no rant just facts.

[DougDew]

Last spring, I felt strongly that Grigson should be retained and was lukewarm on Pagano.  Today, I feel even stronger that Grigson should be retained and even less enthusiastic about Pagano.

[Rackeen305]

19 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Last spring, I felt strongly that Grigson should be retained and was lukewarm on Pagano.  Today, I feel even stronger that Grigson should be retained and even less enthusiastic about Pagano.

Can u imagine if we did the right thing and drafter CB XAVIER RHODES,  instead of a project in Werner. we would have 2 shut down corners in Vante, and Rhodes. just saying. it would be night and day. the D would be pretty tight.

[Valpo2004]

On 10/17/2016 at 1:05 AM, presto123 said:

 Just wondering.......As soon as I heard the decision come down, I knew the writing was on the wall. Irsay made a huge mistake. Let me know which side of the fence you fell on at the time Irsay was making the decision. I felt like Pagano was brought here to be a defensive guru and he did very little to earn a second chance. Part of that was on Grigson which is why both of them should have been fired. Now we can only hope Irsay wakes up and sees the error of his ways.

 

I was somewhat neutral on the whole thing.  I wasn't a huge fan of retaining him, but on the other hand I didn't exactly see a coach out there (Jim Harbaugh was not coming to Indy.) that I thought would be an improvement over him.  

 

So I suppose you could say I mildly supported keeping them just on the basis of "Who you gonna get that's better?"

 

[CanuckColtsFan]

I was and still am in support of both being retained. I'm a fan of continuity. People need time to develop a system. I know they've had five years and that Elway turned things around faster but not every team can mirror that. 

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Can u imagine if we did the right thing and drafter CB XAVIER RHODES,  instead of a project in Werner. we would have 2 shut down corners in Vante, and Rhodes. just saying. it would be night and day. the D would be pretty tight.

I agree.  Although, the thought on Rhodes was that he was a bit stiff, and Toler was playing pretty well then.  We definitely needed a pass rusher since Freeney was costing $14 million against the cap and was going to be released.

 

Actually, it would have worked perfectly if Werner was the player we had hoped.

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Huh? stop taking things to the couch. if he didn't wanna take the job then that's 1 thing, if the job was never offered that'd another. there was no rant just facts.

 I don't know what "taking things to the couch" means.

 

then what did the rest of your post have to do with Arians taking the colts job?  You know, that last part filled with "facts"

[Rackeen305]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

 I don't know what "taking things to the couch" means.

 

then what did the rest of your post have to do with Arians taking the colts job?  You know, that last part filled with "facts"

Me stating saying facts referred to my initial post where you commented on. do u remember now...now that we past 1st grade there Bobby. 

 

We have mods who care about language (cough, cough),  so to help you graduate to 2nd grade (Bobby), stop taking things to the Trump (trying to respect others.). Ohhhhhhh

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Me stating saying facts referred to my initial post where you commented on. do u remember now...now that we past 1st grade there Bobby. 

 

We have mods who care about language (cough, cough),  so to help you graduate to 2nd grade (Bobby), stop taking things to the Trump (trying to respect others.). Ohhhhhhh

 

Goood lord......

[braveheartcolt]

10 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Can u imagine if we did the right thing and drafter CB XAVIER RHODES,  instead of a project in Werner. we would have 2 shut down corners in Vante, and Rhodes. just saying. it would be night and day. the D would be pretty tight.

Yes, I can imagine this hindsighted hypothetical shoodawoodacooda scenario, and we would still have the worst Linebackers in the history of the League. Now what do I do? 

[Rackeen305]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  Although, the thought on Rhodes was that he was a bit stiff, and Toler was playing pretty well then.  We definitely needed a pass rusher since Freeney was costing $14 million against the cap and was going to be released.

 

Actually, it would have worked perfectly if Werner was the player we had hoped.

Negative. Even Gigs and PAGS said that converting Werner from DE to OLB was a project. you don't take projects in the first round. I believe Gigs learned his first real hard lesson as GM with this Mess up. As you can see, we drafted a "project" in OT La'raven Clark in the 3rd this time around.  

[southwest1]

Honestly, I thought Pagano was gone since his contract was basically up & since I don't exactly run the Grigson fan club either; I figured both gentlemen were gone. 

 

When both guys remained intact & received new deals, I was stunned. What the hades for? Talk about a head scratcher. Locker room chemistry matters of course, but so does protecting the QB & running the ball.

 

The NFL is not a nice guy business; It's a fix your flaws & leap forward from last season business. 

 

If you asked me to split the baby or corner me & force me to keep one: Fire Ryan & give Chuck 1 last shot or season. 

[Coltsman1788]

I wanted the Colts to clean house during the off season.  I was shocked when Irsay decided to not just keep but to extend both for 4 more years.   However, I was willing to see how it played out.  Today, I still feel that Irsay made a mistake with that decision.  I really like Chuck as a man but I have doubts that he has what it takes to get the Colts a Lombardi. I don't think much of Griggson as a GM based on his body of work to date and limited experience in this role.  It will take a deep post season run (not likely) for me to be content with retaining this tandem beyond this season.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Negative. Even Gigs and PAGS said that converting Werner from DE to OLB was a project. you don't take projects in the first round. I believe Gigs learned his first real hard lesson as GM with this Mess up. As you can see, we drafted a "project" in OT La'raven Clark in the 3rd this time around.  

Positive.  At the time, drafting the best pass rusher available at pick 24 was the smart decision.  While drafting for need is not the preferred route, Freeny's contract and Mathis' age made OLB an exceptional need, especially since neither could play the run in the new 34 scheme we were installing.

 

Taking Rhodes would have meant we would have either put him on the bench behind Toler, or play him and cut Toler with some salary cap dead money.  And before people start squawking about Toler, a the time, the Colts were switching to a press man CB scheme away from the zone, and Toler was a pretty good press man CB, who displayed that until his injury bug continued (when signed, Toler's play was not questioned, it was his knee injury and injury history)

 

At the time, if Rhodes was drafted, we would have had three good CBs, with #1, #2 draft picks and good money devoted to the position, but only the ability to play 2....with virtually no OLB on the roster.  Too many CBs and not enough OLBs.

 

Picking Rhodes would have been an extremely stupid decision at the time.  But now, hindsight makes it look the opposite.

 

Which is why I support Grigson.  I have never faulted any decision he has made at the time, given the circumstances at the time (except TR trade).  Whether or not they work out...well....to quote Polian....A GM is right about first round picks about 60% of the time.

[coltsfeva]

 I want to see how this season plays out. We really don't know the details of how players are being coached. All I know is that the players (who want to win a championship as much, if not more than we want them to win one) respect Pagano and believe he is the coach who can get them there.

   As far as Grigson, yeah, he has "struck out" in both the draft and FA. NO GM in the league hits on all decisions. He's made some good choices as well, but fans look past that.

   I would argue that the talent is there, but the Colts have beaten themselves at times. And the players have to take responsibility for that.

 Also, the team has yet to get completely healthy. Because of that, inexperience has played a role in this year's record and we've seen a lot of mental errors.

  People think you can wave a "magic wand" and bring in someone new to make the Colts able to compete for a championship. (Don't forget  Belichick had some rough years in Cleveland, before he was successful).  

  Here's my question to all who want them gone:  Should the Colts win the championship before their contracts expire, would you have the objectivity to admit you were wrong? Just sayin.....                    

[King Colt]

Judging from what was written I thought one of them would go but not so for reasons unknown yet today. Colts players like Pagano.

[Rackeen305]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Positive.  At the time, drafting the best pass rusher available at pick 24 was the smart decision.  While drafting for need is not the preferred route, Freeny's contract and Mathis' age made OLB an exceptional need, especially since neither could play the run in the new 34 scheme we were installing.

 

Taking Rhodes would have meant we would have either put him on the bench behind Toler, or play him and cut Toler with some salary cap dead money.  And before people start squawking about Toler, a the time, the Colts were switching to a press man CB scheme away from the zone, and Toler was a pretty good press man CB, who displayed that until his injury bug continued (when signed, Toler's play was not questioned, it was his knee injury and injury history)

 

At the time, if Rhodes was drafted, we would have had three good CBs, with #1, #2 draft picks and good money devoted to the position, but only the ability to play 2....with virtually no OLB on the roster.  Too many CBs and not enough OLBs.

 

Picking Rhodes would have been an extremely stupid decision at the time.  But now, hindsight makes it look the opposite.

 

Which is why I support Grigson.  I have never faulted any decision he has made at the time, given the circumstances at the time (except TR trade).  Whether or not they work out...well....to quote Polian....A GM is right about first round picks about 60% of the time.

Time out, you say making the Werner pick was right but the TRICH trade a mistake how? when we traded for TRich we felt like we had a chance at making a deep run in the playoffs. And didnt have a capable healthy RB at the time. that was just bad luck, considering he had played OK his 1st season in Cleveland.  picking Rhodes was a stupid choice? how u figure? Toler who was never proven in AZ right. plus the league was and still utilizing 3 WE sets or spread sets. So much so that our current team puts SS Geathers in on 3rd and Long right? So your argument doesn't hold.

PAGS, who worked Werner out at FSU was looking for an OLB like he had in Baltimore. what's the white olb name..oh yea Kruger who then signed with Cleveland.It was a desperate move since we couldn't sign Kruger as a free agent.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Time out, you say making the Werner pick was right but the TRICH trade a mistake how? when we traded for TRich we felt like we had a chance at making a deep run in the playoffs. And didnt have a capable healthy RB at the time. that was just bad luck, considering he had played OK his 1st season in Cleveland.  picking Rhodes was a stupid choice? how u figure? Toler who was never proven in AZ right. plus the league was and still utilizing 3 WE sets or spread sets. So much so that our current team puts SS Geathers in on 3rd and Long right? So your argument doesn't hold.

PAGS, who worked Werner out at FSU was looking for an OLB like he had in Baltimore. what's the white olb name..oh yea Kruger who then signed with Cleveland.It was a desperate move since we couldn't sign Kruger as a free agent.

I agree a lot.  The TR trade was not as bad as people think.  At the time, I believe the Colts had no viable RBs to play.  Bradshaw was hurt and DBrown was always banged up.  I think the thinking was to get a RB who could play the season (playoff contender then) and also the future since he was young. 

 

That was a very good strategy.  It just turned out that the player was lazy and had no vision.

 

My dislike for the trade was using a 1st round pick on a RB when you have a franchise QB that your offense will be centered around.

 

I think Toler was regarded as a capable #2 press man CB, but did not play a lot in AZ because of injuries.  He was actually a decent #2 until the season where he tore the groin.  Vontae, Toler, Landry, and Bethea, actually made a good press secondary the first year they were together.  A high pick on a CB was not really needed.  What was lacking was a OLB that could play the position more completely than Freeny and Mathis.  Unfortunately, Werner was not that player.  Then Landry's play fell off making the secondary worse with Toler not being the same either.

 

The strategy of filling in the holes where needed at the time was sound, and even the consensus at the time was that both TR and Werner were worthy of low first round picks.  Hindsight tells us they weren't worth much at all, so the Colts wasted their picks and Grigs looks bad.

[colts8718]

 

[MacDee1975]

I wanted both of these guys gone, but wasn't that upset when they got resigned because their weren't much better options out there.

 

More and more I think Pagano is the weak link:  we've been in position to win every game this year, suggesting to me the talent isn't as bad as it's made out to be.  Sloppy, penalty ridden, undisciplined, unprepared teams are what I see each week, and that falls 100% on the head coach.  Not to mention he was supposed to be some sort of defensive guru, but the defense has been absolute garbage from the moment he took over.

[BOTT]

10 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

 I want to see how this season plays out. We really don't know the details of how players are being coached. All I know is that the players (who want to win a championship as much, if not more than we want them to win one) respect Pagano and believe he is the coach who can get them there.

   As far as Grigson, yeah, he has "struck out" in both the draft and FA. NO GM in the league hits on all decisions. He's made some good choices as well, but fans look past that.

   I would argue that the talent is there, but the Colts have beaten themselves at times. And the players have to take responsibility for that.

 Also, the team has yet to get completely healthy. Because of that, inexperience has played a role in this year's record and we've seen a lot of mental errors.

  People think you can wave a "magic wand" and bring in someone new to make the Colts able to compete for a championship. (Don't forget  Belichick had some rough years in Cleveland, before he was successful).  

  Here's my question to all who want them gone:  Should the Colts win the championship before their contracts expire, would you have the objectivity to admit you were wrong? Just sayin.....                    

 

When will people like you admit Grigson isn't any good at his job?  What will it take? How many first rounders must he squander?   How may FA busts does he have to sign?  

The whole "all GM's swing and miss" argument is getting tiresome.  Almost as tiresome as "Trent just needs to learn the playbook"

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

 

When will people like you admit Grigson isn't any good at his job?  What will it take? How many first rounders must he squander?   How may FA busts does he have to sign?  

The whole "all GM's swing and miss" argument is getting tiresome.  Almost as tiresome as "Trent just needs to learn the playbook"

They won't ever learn. They quote me and tell me how wrong I am for calling him a dumb *** everyday. he just needs more time they say. some try and say he's on the right path now like wth are you all smoking. 

[Superman]

19 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Negative. Even Gigs and PAGS said that converting Werner from DE to OLB was a project. you don't take projects in the first round.

 

Nonsense. 

[Superman]

Against? Meh, I wasn't diametrically opposed to them staying, but I thought they were gone. Especially Pagano.

 

I said before the season started, with all the noise about him not getting extended, that he needed to prove he was the guy the Colts needed moving forward. I don't think he proved that in 2015, so I expected him to be gone.

 

Grigson has made several mistakes, including some big ones. I wouldn't have been surprised if he was dismissed also, but I thought that was more of a 50/50 kind of deal. I don't think he's been as bad as some say, but he's definitely left a lot of meat on the bone. 

[dudeski]

On 10/17/2016 at 1:38 AM, Bluefire4 said:

I thought it was the best move just with how we ended the year last year with all the quarterback controversy we had. But I really wanted to give Pagano another chance and dump Grigson. This offseason and regular season so far really has me feeling the same way.

 what?

 

you are still in favor of pagano?  

[Bluefire4]

2 minutes ago, dudeski said:

 what?

 

you are still in favor of pagano?  

With all the injuries and lack of talent I'm surprised at how well we have stayed in games. 

[dudeski]

3 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

With all the injuries and lack of talent I'm surprised at how well we have stayed in games. 

pagano might be the worst coach in the history of the colts

 

you should watch a colts game from time to time.  

[Bluefire4]

1 hour ago, dudeski said:

pagano might be the worst coach in the history of the colts

 

you should watch a colts game from time to time.  

I watch every game. You'll probably say this about every coach we ever have until a super bowl is won. People were screaming for Dungy to go, people were screaming for Caldwell to go, now people are screaming for Pagano to go. Even if we got Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban or other ridiculous coaching options people are suggesting, within two years of marginal success they would be vilified as well.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I watch every game. You'll probably say this about every coach we ever have until a super bowl is won. People were screaming for Dungy to go, people were screaming for Caldwell to go, now people are screaming for Pagano to go. Even if we got Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban or other ridiculous coaching options people are suggesting, within two years of marginal success they would be vilified as well.

Dungy deserved some criticism, but I don't recall tons of people screaming for him to go.  Pagano continually makes silly in game decisions and his teams are undisciplined and often look unprepared.

[Bluefire4]

5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Dungy deserved some criticism, but I don't recall tons of people screaming for him to go.  Pagano continually makes silly in game decisions and his teams are undisciplined and often look unprepared.

I get the undisciplined part but I don't think they are unprepared. They play the pass well when the corners are healthy and they know what they need to do to stop the run and tight ends. I don't think we have the talent to stop it.

 

And the same thing could be said about Dungy being unprepared. Even the super bowl season every week he knew the other team was going to run down our throats and they didn't stop the run the entire regular season. No matter how prepared you are the players have to go out and execute.

[BOTT]

37 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I get the undisciplined part but I don't think they are unprepared. They play the pass well when the corners are healthy and they know what they need to do to stop the run and tight ends. I don't think we have the talent to stop it.

 

And the same thing could be said about Dungy being unprepared. Even the super bowl season every week he knew the other team was going to run down our throats and they didn't stop the run the entire regular season. No matter how prepared you are the players have to go out and execute.

The colts play the pass well when healthy?  News to me.

 

dungy's teams didn't look unprepared and sloppy. They were just untalented and undersized in the middle. Pagano's teams have, throughout his tenure, often looked unprepared/unenthusiastic/sloppy.  Dumb penalties at critical moments, dumb decisions by players who return to repeat their mistakes, etc. Then there is Chuck who still makes the same mistakes with time management and when to punt/not punt.

 

I get that Chuck is behind the 8 ball because of Grigson, but that doesn't excuse everything.

[Rackeen305]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Nonsense. 

Are you Donald Trumping me? "Wrong", "Nonsense". At least when I disagreed I stated my reason.  

 

So technically your conjecture ( an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.) nonsense was exactly that, NONSENSE.

[crazycolt1]

The thing about this thread is making a comment in it leads to negativity no matter if you agree or not. 

Because I don't agree that Grigson or Pagano needs to be fired I am automatically labeled a defender or a homer.

Trying to explain my reasons does no good because the attitude is if you don't agree then your opinion is not welcome and it becomes more of a personal attack.

[SilentHill]

On 1/4/2016 at 10:14 PM, SilentHill said:

Here's to another season of eating grit, chopping wood, playing our tails off, and rolling balls of butcher knives!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 10/17/2016 at 1:05 AM, presto123 said:

 Just wondering.......As soon as I heard the decision come down, I knew the writing was on the wall. Irsay made a huge mistake. Let me know which side of the fence you fell on at the time Irsay was making the decision. I felt like Pagano was brought here to be a defensive guru and he did very little to earn a second chance. Part of that was on Grigson which is why both of them should have been fired. Now we can only hope Irsay wakes up and sees the error of his ways.

How long are we gonna beat this dead horse .