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4th and 1 and you throw to stone hands


GusBus24

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2 hours ago, grmasterb said:

I don't understand why Ferguson was in there at all for that series. 

I don't understand why Ferguson is on the team. Todman showed more elusiveness and catching ability in one preseason play than Ferguson has since he has been here. I honestly hope we drop him tomorrow for Jones but it will probably be McGill.

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Luck definitely could have and should have run but Allen stopped his route which allowed the defender to catch up and make a play on the ball. If Allen continued running Luck could have led him with that throw. I'm sorry but Allen is just too damn stiff...  he should never be in on 3rd and necessary over Doyle unless it's a run which it should have been but it wasn't. I promise you Doyle would have continued his route and caught that pass in stride. I'm sick of this team playing their favorites. Ferguson should not be getting more carries than Turbin. Allen should not be getting more targets than Doyle and none of the aforementioned should be getting more targets than Dorsett...

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48 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, it was a turnover.  It lost us the game.  It was something he alone could have successfully achieved but chose not to rather than being stopped by anyone.  I can't think of any other single plays that met all of those above criteria.  

 

And I don't make a habit of using, as my only argument, Drew Barrymore movies no matter the subject.  All this time I thought you were an adult male.  I apologize if I made a mistake.  Some would think Drew Barrymore film obsessions, you know where you actually love the film so much you use it to try and win a football disagreement, is the real "problem."  So no, I don't think I have any problem that a Drew Barrymore film would compare to, unless she was dealing with multiple near fatal illnesses? Outside of that, I'll just assume once again you wanted to disagree, attempt a weak personal attack on me for whatever reason and failed at it as you so often do.  

 

Apparently a troll gotta be a troll.  

Yes,   using an analogy makes me obsessed with Drew Barrymore films.   The point was you have a short memory.  And also you are wrong.   Now go play sing and play music to an empty audience

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2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

This!

 

Luck could EASILY have gotten a yard all the way up to the split second he threw it instead of just running for the yard.  I watched the play over and over and it was literally EASY for him to have gotten that yard running.  Certainly the worst decision and play of his career. 

 

Really? The WORST?? Wow.. I mean that was the play that ended the game for us, but it wasn't the play that lost us the game if that makes any sense.  The 5 drops, the pressure let up from the o line, definitely cost us the game.  

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Where the hell was Gore on that play?

The guy is only one of the best backs in NFL history. He would have given the defense something serious to be aware of. For a staff that loves to talk about having their best players on the field that sure was an inopportune time to change philosophy.

With Gore watching it made it obvious that we were passing.

*

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Luck could've and should've ran for the first.

 

My thinking of his decision not to was two fold.

 

1) He saw Allen get open who was a few yards ahead and decided to throw the ball instead.  I'm sure he was confident in Allen's ability to make the catch, it just so happens the Jags defender closed on the ball and made a pretty good play.  Those guys get paid too.

 

2) I wonder how much everybody, from the owner to the coaching staff, harping on him about "changing the way he plays" had any influence over his decision.  Sure he ran a cpl times earlier, but on this particular play I don't believe there was room for him to get the first and get down and slide avoiding what was going to be a certain hit by at least one if not two Jags defenders.  Did it factor in?  Maybe, maybe not....only Luck knows for sure.

 

One last note, a friend of mine posted on facebook (so take it for what you will, I'm not gonna fact check it) that the last two losing coaches of the London game have lost their jobs.  Another torch/pitchfork for all the Fire Pagano people to use.

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53 minutes ago, MR. Blueblood said:

Luck could've and should've ran for the first.

 

2) I wonder how much everybody, from the owner to the coaching staff, harping on him about "changing the way he plays" had any influence over his decision.  Sure he ran a cpl times earlier, but on this particular play I don't believe there was room for him to get the first and get down and slide avoiding what was going to be a certain hit by at least one if not two Jags defenders.  Did it factor in?  Maybe, maybe not....only Luck knows for sure.

 

One last note, a friend of mine posted on facebook (so take it for what you will, I'm not gonna fact check it) that the last two losing coaches of the London game have lost their jobs.  Another torch/pitchfork for all the Fire Pagano people to use.

Are you Bob Kravitz?

 

http://now.wthr.com/2dkQiXt

( Sent from WTHR )

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Whoever called that play was simply trying to reinvent the world. Way to cute.

 

Would have been easier simply spreading everyone out and just handing it off or roll AL on a designed roll out for a 1 yard run.

 

I'm starting to think it's more Chuck then anything. How can several OC's not get this team running a solid plan to keep D's off balance with guys like Luck, Gore and TY?

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4 hours ago, Vinatieri4 said:

 

Really? The WORST?? Wow.. I mean that was the play that ended the game for us, but it wasn't the play that lost us the game if that makes any sense.  The 5 drops, the pressure let up from the o line, definitely cost us the game.  

It came down to that play.  Name the worse play by Luck?  I am very interested in hearing what you think it is? If you can't name a specific worse play of Luck's career, then you're simply being a contrarian with nothing to back it up.  

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5 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

It came down to that play.  Name the worse play by Luck?  I am very interested in hearing what you think it is? If you can't name a specific worse play of Luck's career, then you're simply being a contrarian with nothing to back it up.  

I will say this, to me this feels like the worse loss in his career considering we were 1-2 and the Jags are simply not that good. In Luck's starts over his 5 seasons I cant remember a more shocking loss. He should've ran the ball on 4th and 1 but it's easy to play armchair QB now LOL

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11 hours ago, GusBus24 said:

4th and 1 and you throw to Allen who can't catch a cold! Where is Gore? Why didn't Luck step forward one yard? Terrible coaching! 

 

That was not a designed play to Allen.

 

The play broke down,  Luck had a mini-scramble,  Allen came open,  and the pass was dropped or broken up.

 

That was not called in the huddle for Allen.       I don't know why you think it was...........?

 

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15 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

The ball was swatted away.  Had nothing to do with allens hands.   It was a terrible formation and terrible play call

I am talking about all his other drops that game and this year! Face it dude can't catch he's an over priced blocker

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Absolute abysmal play call. Let Luck run it, or Gore or Turbin run it!! 

 

(the problem with this, this coaching staff has got Luck scared to run, and they'll keep handing it off to Ferguson who cannot run in between tackles at all

 

Furguson had more carries than Turbin. What planet does that make sense??!  

 

 

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I was at the game and Luck had a stinker.... The O-line didn't help, but Luck just played bad....  

He shouldn't have thrown it to Allen, he could've easily stepped forward for the yard and got down before taking any punishment. That is on Luck, not the coaching.... Now, as for the offensive game plan for the rest of the game, that IS on the coaching.... The penalty flag was our best offensive player on Sunday. 

 

So disappointing to have waited all these years to see the Colts in London, only to see that paltry performance, if you can even call it that. Stay true to blue, but i am a bit disappointed by that one.

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From Don Banks over at NFL.com :

 

"Indy quarterback Andrew Luck is never going to last the season (again) if he keeps taking this kind of pounding behind that porous Colts' offensive line (six more sacks on Sunday, and a reported 13 QB hits). But strangely, the one time I thought Luck should have definitely taken off and run, he didn't. That being that crucial fourth-and-1 near midfield the Colts faced with 1:36 remaining and trailing by a field goal. Luck appeared to have room to pick up the first down, but instead threw for tight end Dwayne Allen, who didn't come down with it. But strangely, the one time I thought Luck should have definitely taken off and run, he didn't. That being that crucial fourth-and-1 near midfield the Colts faced with 1:36 remaining and trailing by a field goal. Luck appeared to have room to pick up the first down, but instead threw for tight end Dwayne Allen, who didn't come down with it.

 

But while we're at it, what in the name of Norm Bulaich is Frank Gore doing on the sideline on that fourth-and-1? If Gore's not out there for that play, and the likely ball carrier, why is he on Indy's roster? IfColts coach Chuck Pagano has to sit next to always-excitable owner Jim Irsay on the long flight home, I'd suggest wearing his ear buds and a sleeping mask over his eyes."

...........................................

I agree with what Don Banks says.

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After re-watching this play several times, it's clear that Luck made the proper decision. People who have not gone back and re-watched this play are clearly miss-remembering how things unfolded. 

 

People insist that Luck needed to take two more steps and he would've had the first down. In reality, Luck was in the shotgun when he took the snap (4 yards behind the LOS) and then he took a 2 step drop. He moved towards his left and moved up in the pocket. When he threw the ball he was 5-yards away from the first down marker, with a defender bearing down on him to his right and a defender bearing down on him from behind. It's eerily similar to how Luck was injured in the Denver game.

 

Here is a link to the "highlights" from the game. Go to the 2:50 marker and re-watch the play. Luck made a good decision in light of just having just missed a season due to injury on a very similar play.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000714687/article/frustrated-luck-im-tired-of-almost-after-latest-loss

 

It was the right decision -- the placement of the ball was not good.

 

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On 10/2/2016 at 1:05 PM, GusBus24 said:

4th and 1 and you throw to Allen who can't catch a cold! Where is Gore? Why didn't Luck step forward one yard? Terrible coaching! 

 

Uhh?

 

There is mucho blame to go around for the entire game but on that particular play, it is all on Luck.  Blaming coaches for that is categorical nonsense.

 

Luck lacked situational awareness on that play - big time.  First off, just get the damn first down and the easiest way to do that as that particular play developed was to run for it.  Secondly, given the way the game had developed, throwing to Allen when he was wide open was a crap shoot.  And on the fateful play, it was a contested throw.  This is like a point guard passing to your ooff of a center on the fast break.  He should have known better.

 

There are many things that make me worry about this season and while Luck is the least of those worries, he is not without blame either.

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37 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Was the previous play to T.Y. a possible first down? I know all challenges have to come from upstairs inside the 2:00 minutes but I did wonder about that.

 

If the first down markers were back about a yard and half, then yes it would have been worthy of a challenge.

 

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7 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Uhh?

 

There is mucho blame to go around for the entire game but on that particular play, it is all on Luck.  Blaming coaches for that is categorical nonsense.

 

Luck lacked situational awareness on that play - big time.  First off, just get the damn first down and the easiest way to do that as that particular play developed was to run for it.  Secondly, given the way the game had developed, throwing to Allen when he was wide open was a crap shoot.  And on the fateful play, it was a contested throw.  This is like a point guard passing to your ooff of a center on the fast break.  He should have known better.

 

There are many things that make me worry about this season and while Luck is the least of those worries, he is not without blame either.

Please review the post immediately above this post for reference on that last play. Could Luck have run for the first down? Possibly, although it would've been contested by 2 D-lineman. (This was a very similar situation that he faced in the Denver game). I am glad that in critical moments, Luck has now shown that he has learned to protect himself, especially when the team around his in not able to do it for him.

 

IMO, Luck made the right decision, however, the ball placement was poor.

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48 minutes ago, Flash said:

Please review the post immediately above this post for reference on that last play. Could Luck have run for the first down? Possibly, although it would've been contested by 2 D-lineman. (This was a very similar situation that he faced in the Denver game). I am glad that in critical moments, Luck has now shown that he has learned to protect himself, especially when the team around his in not able to do it for him.

 

IMO, Luck made the right decision, however, the ball placement was poor.

 

I did read the post and saw the play both live and on replay.  Simply put I don't share the same conclusion.

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On 10/2/2016 at 11:59 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will say this, to me this feels like the worse loss in his career considering we were 1-2 and the Jags are simply not that good. In Luck's starts over his 5 seasons I cant remember a more shocking loss. He should've ran the ball on 4th and 1 but it's easy to play armchair QB now LOL

I think contrary to a few opinions here, that many of us were screaming in real time for him to run Andrew run!

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On 10/2/2016 at 9:15 PM, ColtfreakDVA said:

You are just being supercilious. O.o

Great word, but I think any victim of endless yet empty harassment by web trolls is by default superior. And anyone trolling me is neither deserving of respect nor likely to get it.  Disagreement and debate with facts, examples and opinions are great,  Simply being contrary with zero backing substance is trolling. If you sympathize with trolls, that is your problem, not mine.

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The defender got a finger on it.  

It hit Allen's hands.  

He should have caught it.  

 

Luck could have easily made the first down, but maybe he wasn't sure where exactly that was.  

PLUS he's been hearing all off-season that he needs to avoid contact.  

  

I blame the bad play call, Allen not catching the ball, and Luck for listening to the owner, GM and coach.  

  

You just have to let Andrew play and the Colts are holding him back.  

There's a reason he has so many 4th quarter comebacks.  

 

Get down early and they tell Andrew to "go ahead and play".

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1 hour ago, ricker182 said:

The defender got a finger on it.  

It hit Allen's hands.  

He should have caught it.  

 

 

I saw that too but after watching it over and over I wondered why he didn't come back to the ball as he knew the coverage was closing in quickly.  Seems like had he stepped forward a bit he would have caught it and still made the yardage.

 

Yes this is hindsight but the last 20 times I watched it I am now convinced he should have. :pcsmash:

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On 2016-10-03 at 11:04 AM, Flash said:

After re-watching this play several times, it's clear that Luck made the proper decision. People who have not gone back and re-watched this play are clearly miss-remembering how things unfolded. 

 

People insist that Luck needed to take two more steps and he would've had the first down. In reality, Luck was in the shotgun when he took the snap (4 yards behind the LOS) and then he took a 2 step drop. He moved towards his left and moved up in the pocket. When he threw the ball he was 5-yards away from the first down marker, with a defender bearing down on him to his right and a defender bearing down on him from behind. It's eerily similar to how Luck was injured in the Denver game.

 

Here is a link to the "highlights" from the game. Go to the 2:50 marker and re-watch the play. Luck made a good decision in light of just having just missed a season due to injury on a very similar play.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000714687/article/frustrated-luck-im-tired-of-almost-after-latest-loss

 

It was the right decision -- the placement of the ball was not good.

 

You're actually on to something there. I really feel like a run was the way to go. Just let Gore get that yard.

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Tough one. I like the play call. I feel everyone watching expected a run. With that being said, in the situation Luck put himself in. He needed to take the play into his own hands and get the first down. With the ball in your hands, go get that first down and continue to drive down the field. 

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On 10/3/2016 at 1:04 PM, Flash said:

After re-watching this play several times, it's clear that Luck made the proper decision. People who have not gone back and re-watched this play are clearly miss-remembering how things unfolded. 

 

People insist that Luck needed to take two more steps and he would've had the first down. In reality, Luck was in the shotgun when he took the snap (4 yards behind the LOS) and then he took a 2 step drop. He moved towards his left and moved up in the pocket. When he threw the ball he was 5-yards away from the first down marker, with a defender bearing down on him to his right and a defender bearing down on him from behind. It's eerily similar to how Luck was injured in the Denver game.

 

Here is a link to the "highlights" from the game. Go to the 2:50 marker and re-watch the play. Luck made a good decision in light of just having just missed a season due to injury on a very similar play.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000714687/article/frustrated-luck-im-tired-of-almost-after-latest-loss

 

It was the right decision -- the placement of the ball was not good.

 

Flash, 

 

Finally, someone who actually supports their disagreement with a sound argument.  Thank you for that.  

 

In your response you make a good point if the purpose of Luck playing QB is to avoid injury at all cost, including losing games.  If that is the beginning and end of his purpose, then you've won the argument,  I see it differently however.  Let's say he literally was risking a major injury on that play (I disagree, but for the sake of forwarding the argument), the pressure was coming just as you say, from the right and from behind,  He has two options at that point, move to safety, or throw the ball and hope he doesn't get hit anyway.  But, I believe he also MUST add to that decision whether they can win or lose based on what he does.  

 

By losing the game, he's now put far more pressure on the entire team to take "at all costs" type risks the rest of the season, including himself.  From the coaching staff to executives to every active and inactive player, 1-3 puts all of them in danger, not just of injury, and I would argue that pressure to play injured, to come back early from injury or to simply play injured just skyrocketed.  If the reason he didn't move left, away from pressure and towards a first down, was fear of injury over fear of losing, he has, by that decision, put everyone at all levels of the team, in more dangerous conditions going forward,   The risk assessment was faulty.  

 

The far lower risk was to evade the pressure towards the first down.  You said the distance was farther than 2 yards, let's say it was.  If he moves toward safety and somehow fails to get the needed yardage, I think it is still a better and safer decision. Tossing the ball put him in all sorts of danger if he was under the pressure you described.  QBs regularly get clobbered on completed passes legally.  Regardless of whether the distance forward and to the left was 2 yards to a first down or 5 yards, it was the place where there wasn't two guys ready to crush him and for a fast, agile and powerful runner like Luck, even if it was the full 5 yards, it was wide open and he more likely than not would have made it to a first down on the edge of game tying field goal range with plenty of time to go. Throwing the ball was an all or nothing proposition with both the passer and receiver under duress.  At worst, the risk was cut in half by eliminating one of two players who could each fail.  

 

You may still disagree Flash, but I do appreciate someone who makes an intelligent argument to support his point, whether it agrees with mine or not contrary to trolldom lore.  Now others can add their views or weigh the points for themselves.  But for those who just troll either side with empty contrarian statements for the sake of obstinance against a person rather than a topic, it isn't debate or disagreement or fun conversation...it's just stereotypical Internet trolldom. 

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