What Are We Paying Allen For?

[lollygagger8]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you are going to show this drop why not show the 80 TD that he caught? That is still the longest of Lucks career I believe.

 

That's the one that unfortunately starts playing in my head as soon as someone says Fleener. 

 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

That's the one that unfortunately starts playing in my head as soon as someone says Fleener. 

 

Understandable for sure.

[Bravo]

The thing is, Fleener IS NOT putting up big numbers with Brees. Fleener has been absolute my terrible for the Saints.

 

Fleener had one good game where Drew Brees threw the ball 54 times.

 

The Saints have been throwing 40+ times a game and Fleener's stats are bad. Don't can't block and is lucky to hold onto the ball on every pas thrown to him.

 

IF Allen stays healthy, he does and will do so much more for the Colts than Fleener could ever do. Like others have said, the tight end position isn't just about getting receiving yards.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

 

No.     If Allen isn't catching then he's blocking.

 

And,  it's only week 4 of a 16 game schedule.      We've only played 3 games.

 

Why are you jumping to conclusions?       These things will work out over 16 games.

 

And if not,  after the 2017 season,  the team will be able to cut Allen.

 

But let's stay focused on this year for now.      And there's nothing wrong with Allen.

 

[Bravo]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

How he plays with the Saints is irrelevant. Jerry Hughes is the opposite example. 

 

If you can't measure Fleener by how he is playing with the Saints how can you measure his play at all!?!? 

 

If anything Fleeners #'s should be elevated by playing with the Saints and they are not. 

 

Not or saying we should be measuring Fleener splay anyway. He isn't on the Colts anymore and the Colts already paid Allen. People just need to move on. Lol

[MSColtsFan]

If it makes anyone feel better, it's a pretty deep TE draft class, so we could do this all over again soon. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I always assumed we were paying him to play football as a TE. He was definitely out there. 

 

Wait, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING HIM!?  Well I haven't been chipping in...  Maybe his average stats are a protest to not getting his money from us!! 

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you are going to show this drop why not show the 80 TD that he caught? That is still the longest of Lucks career I believe.

And his contribution right afternthat drop....I believe he made up for that... 

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, bravo4460 said:

 

If you can't measure Fleener by how he is playing with the Saints how can you measure his play at all!?!? 

 

If anything Fleeners #'s should be elevated by playing with the Saints and they are not. 

 

Not or saying we should be measuring Fleener splay anyway. He isn't on the Colts anymore and the Colts already paid Allen. People just need to move on. Lol

It is obvious. He was doing just fine here. And I expect he would have continued in that vain. The Saints is a different org, with different players. Brees doesn't change that. My reference to JH shows that players can have very varied success with different teams. 

 

For what it's worth, I'm already liking Doyle more than those other two....

[LockeDown]

Doyle has always passed the eye test.  He seems to be open and he always seems to make the catch.  

 

I wonder about our 3rd stringer now.  He might do better in our system than Allen.

[Mr Coffee]

9 hours ago, Dustin said:

Because playing TE is more than just about catching passes. 

 

Also Allen is well-needed short yardage chain-mover on the offense. 

Agree with this.  Allen has highly rated run blocking and pass blocking skills.  I believe that he is one of the highest rated TEs in this category, and with our O line woes, we need all of the help that we can get.  

[superrep1967]

9 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Jack Doyle > Coby Fleener

Doyle all day

[superrep1967]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Doyle has always passed the eye test.  He seems to be open and he always seems to make the catch.  

 

I wonder about our 3rd stringer now.  He might do better in our system than Allen.

How about Allen being trade bait in the off season.

[Gavin]

This just in....Jacks always had the ability to catch and run http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jack-doyle?id=2540232

 

Allen has been fine to. He is capable of more but the reason he wont get a lot more is because the offense wont rely a lot on TE's  week in and week out

[colts8718]

To be Doyles back up

[Carlos Danger]

I don't get this thread... What's wrong with Allen? He had a drop? 

 

He bails out the O-Line on a regular basis. He's a pretty reliable route runner and pass catcher. Doyle is good, but you need 2, really. 

[gacoop1]

Fleener & Allen are both overrated.  They both have the dropsies, not breakaway runners, get tackled easily on the spot. Could have gotten valued rookies this past draft.

[southwest1]

9 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

How he plays with the Saints is irrelevant. Jerry Hughes is the opposite example. 

While I can understand that point from a different city, different quarterback, & different coaching philosophy perspective BHC in terms of learning a new system in a new location. Production or the lack thereof does indeed matter somewhat. And Fleener hasn't exactly been an offensive asset in the Bayou yet.

 

So, their GM Loomis traded away 1 TE Jimmy Graham who can't block to Seattle for another one in Coby who rarely blocked either. Hmmm...

 

Will Fleener improve for the Saints? Sure he will, but because Fleener isn't helping New Orleans light it up in the end zone right now it means Pags was right to let the man go. Also, since Brees a SB Champion is his QB now it means that if Fleener can't be successful with Drew then who can he flourish under? 

[southwest1]

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

For what it's worth, I'm already liking Doyle more than those other two....

Doyle reminds me of when we had Jacob Tamme. Not a flashy guy. Just a TE who always ran good routes, knew where to find holes or open pockets in coverage, & had great hands. 

 

Don't underestimate Allen's solid blocking in the running game either. He's quite good in this area IMO. 

 

Not disputing your claims my friend. I just think Allen will show his value by week 7 or 8 that's all. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

I don't get this thread... What's wrong with Allen? He had a drop? 

 

He bails out the O-Line on a regular basis. He's a pretty reliable route runner and pass catcher. Doyle is good, but you need 2, really. 

A drop??   2 last week. One a dropped TD and a crucial 3rd. down drop.

At least he don't have as many drops as Gore.

[DougDew]

We're paying him to be no better than Jack Doyle.  Which was obvious last year when we signed him.

 

Neither Allen or Fleener were worth the contracts they commanded.

[VaAllDay757]

They only played 3 games so far.....so stop it with this being disappointed smh

[coltsfanej]

13 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Jack Doyle > Coby Fleener

I agree 100%. I actually like Doyle over either Fleener or Allen

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

They only played 3 games so far.....so stop it with this being disappointed smh

When can I be disappointed then please? 6 games? 10? Infinity and beyond? 

 

Buzz.

[RockThatBlue]

While its only 3 games in, if Fleener was re signed instead of Allen, many on this board would be crucifying him over that TD drop last week. Allen seems to get a pass for his drops, when ironically his and Fleeners drop rate are almost identical.

 

There would be a 5+ page thread talking about how soft and how much Fleener sucks if that was him dropping that TD last week. 

 

[Defjamz26]

18 hours ago, MSColtsFan said:

If it makes anyone feel better, it's a pretty deep TE draft class, so we could do this all over again soon. 

And that's kind of my line of thinking. They could have signed him to a 1 year deal and just drafted a guy this year. Doyle is giving us the same production for less money. I'm just not seeing how he's worth the money if there's someone else who can do what he does on the roster. 

 

I don't expect him to take over games because of how talented are receivers are but, with the contract he's got he should be offering more than he is. Hilton got payed and he's delivering on every dollar. 

[dudeski]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And that's kind of my line of thinking. They could have signed him to a 1 year deal and just drafted a guy this year. Doyle is giving us the same production for less money. I'm just not seeing how he's worth the money if there's someone else who can do what he does on the roster. 

 

I don't expect him to take over games because of how talented are receivers are but, with the contract he's got he should be offering more than he is. Hilton got payed and he's delivering on every dollar. 

He wouldn't have signed a 1 year deal

[Defjamz26]

22 minutes ago, dudeski said:

He wouldn't have signed a 1 year deal

We don't know that. The TE fad is dying in the NFL. Aside from Fleener, you don't see them getting big money to play elsewhere. Heck the Saints traded Graham away because they didn't think he was worth the money. It's not like someone was definitely going to hand an unproven player with an injury history a fat contract.

[dudeski]

51 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

We don't know that. The TE fad is dying in the NFL. Aside from Fleener, you don't see them getting big money to play elsewhere. Heck the Saints traded Graham away because they didn't think he was worth the money. It's not like someone was definitely going to hand an unproven player with an injury history a fat contract.

You may not know that.  I do.

 

an argument can be made that we overpaid.  Somebody would have paid him on a multi year deal.  

 

The te fad is not dying.  That is absurd 

[Denmayn27]

Allen has a drop and Doyle has 3 critical penalties that could've cost us the game. There stats are fairly similar through 3 games. Doyle is strictly a pass catcher and Allen is the all around TE. The Colts definitely made the right call.

[Carlos Danger]

14 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

A drop??   2 last week. One a dropped TD and a crucial 3rd. down drop.

At least he don't have as many drops as Gore

I saw.. I was just being facetious.

I don't think you can define Allen based on one iffy game. He has proven that he can be a TD machine in the right situation, imo. 

I like Doyle a lot, but I seriously doubt he ends up with better receiving stats than DA for the year.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

I saw.. I was just being facetious.

I don't think you can define Allen based on one iffy game. He has proven that he can be a TD machine in the right situation, imo. 

I like Doyle a lot, but I seriously doubt he ends up with better receiving stats than DA for the year.

You might be right but it wouldn't surprise me to see Doyle end up with better numbers at the end of the season. I say that because it seems Allen is used more for blocking that receiving.

It a good problem to have if they both make good contributions.

[rock8591]

RBs and FBs dying out, TE is getting more important than ever, now that teams know that players like Gronkowski and Graham (when he was in his prime) was an automatic 10 yards on every play, automatic TD in the red zone.

[aaron11]

this is not about fleener any more

 

i think we would have been fine if him and allen both left and we rolled with doyle and swoop

[VaAllDay757]

15 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

When can I be disappointed then please? 6 games? 10? Infinity and beyond? 

 

Buzz.

To be disappointed now is just stupid wait until the season is over atleast he just got the extension this year

[azcolt]

Allen has never been more than a third OT. No one should be surprised anymore.

[dudeski]

Problem here is most fans only see the te as pass catching.  They don't factor in blocking at all.  

 

Check out gores to run and see where Allen took his dude

[Dark Superman]

For the lack of production Allen has given us, I think his contract should have been more around the frame of 4-years, 18-20 million.

I believe the talent is there, but the guy just can't seem to turn it on during actual games. He must really light it up during practice in order to receive the contract the Colts have giving him. But then again we have a GM who loves to throw big money at aging players who don't produce. *couch* Laron Landry.

I was all for keeping Fleener over Allen.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

For the lack of production Allen has given us, I think his contract should have been more around the frame of 4-years, 18-20 million.

I believe the talent is there, but the guy just can't seem to turn it on during actual games. He must really light it up during practice in order to receive the contract the Colts have giving him. But then again we have a GM who loves to throw big money at aging players who don't produce. *couch* Laron Landry.

I was all for keeping Fleener over Allen.

 

If we offered had offered 4/20,  Dwayne Allen would be on another team.

 

The Colts didn't want that.       The Colts can get out of the deal easily after two years.     One things Grigson and his team do well is negotiate contracts.       The Colts are not in salary cap hell.      We give Allen two more years to show what he can do....   hopefully when healthy and the primary tight end.

 

One last thing.....    Grigson doesn't throw big money around easily.     We typically don't sign big expensive free agents,  which is what most fans here want him to do.

And Grigson has been right about that.....   most expensive free agents don't earn their money.

 

Grigson signs middle class and inexpensive free agents,  and a number of them have worked out.....   (cough, cough...)

 

 

[Hoosiernsavga]

Allen is a physical beast. But he has horrible hands and looks like he's running in a foot of sand. He seems to always be on the injury report if not already inactive. 

Doyle is a warrior he definitely doesn't have the physical attributes as Allen but he makes up for it in heart and guts! 

For the money I'm taking Doyle all day!