Luck ranked 2nd on early season QB index

[NewColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Man you are delusional.

 

Vontae was not bad when we got him.  Miami had two great corners (Vontae and Sean Smith) that they got rid off.  Miami was having a fire sale.  Then you named a slew of dudes who "got better" yet are not here or have been getting roasted lately.  Mike Adams is the only guy you can even argue has gotten better since coming here.

 

Then you blame Pep for Luck not getting better.  That's a joke.  Pep didn't make Luck turn the ball over and Pep was running the same deep passes that Arians ran that had Luck getting hit a lot.  And when Luck had that glorious 40 TD year that everyone refers back to you weren't crying for Pep's head then.  But whatever you can have your scapegoat in Pep.

 

Then you argue Pagano is an average coach.  He's average to below average.  He has had multiple clock management issues.  That was just the most recent and glaring ones.  There has been many times that the Colts would score late in the fourth leaving too much time on the clock.  This one stood out the most because he called a TO to boot.

 

And you're bragging about 8-8 with 5 QBs.  But Houston went 9-7 with 4 QBs and actually won the division.  So you get no cookies for that one Pagano.

 

The mere fact that we have no returning talent in our secondary outside of Vontae (1st round pick we traded a 2nd round pick for) and Adams (35 year old journeyman) when Pagano has been here 4 years is an alarming fact.  He hasn't coached up ONE YOUNG GUY?  C'MON MAN!

 

First,  I didn't say Davis was bad.     I said he got better.      Big difference.      Huge difference.

 

Returning talent?     Take it up with Grigson.

 

As for what Pagano is...    you've just said he's average to below average,  so you've already moved off your position that he's a bad coach.

 

By the way,   you're new to the website.    It's not like you're the only one making the argument, a number of posters here agree with you.       So,  you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.    This horse has been beaten to death.

 

Good luck......

 

[Mr Coffee]

On 9/29/2016 at 0:43 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we don't have anymore key injuries over the next few weeks and of course Luck stays healthy I see no reason we cant pull a 2014! As in get to 5-2 after starting 0-2. It is 1 game at a time but looking at our next 4 opponents we should win those games = Jags, Bears in Indy, at Texans, and at Titans. Texans wont have Watt which is a huge blow and I think we are definitely better than the Titans. We have 3 Division games coming up and if we win all of those and get to 5-2 we will be in the driver seat.

I'm definitely optimistic about being 5-2, but I never underestimate division opponents.  The only potential loss I see over the next four games is the game in Houston.  Even without Watt, they may still give us a run for our money.

[tikyle]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First,  I didn't say Davis was bad.     I said he got better.      Big difference.      Huge difference.

 

Returning talent?     Take it up with Grigson.

 

As for what Pagano is...    you've just said he's average to below average,  so you've already moved off your position that he's a bad coach.

 

By the way,   you're new to the website.    It's not like you're the only one making the argument, a number of posters here agree with you.       So,  you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.    This horse has been beaten to death.

 

Good luck......

 

You implied Vontae was not great thus he was traded.  He was really good in as was Sean Smith in Miami and both were gone.  So I don't know if you are mincing words or just don't want to admit Pagano did not make them better.  The only plus I will give Pagano is that his bump and run system fit Vontae more than what they ran in Miami.

 

To me (a guy who graduated with a B to B+ average in HS, college and graduate school in engineering) below average is bad.  Actually average is not really acceptable either.  Not acceptable to be renewed.

 

If new to the website is I was on here since 2011, then yes I am new.

 

Also a good coach gets the most out of what he's given.  I will agree with you that Grigson hasn't given him much on defense.  But what has he developed in spite of that?  They both are to blame.

 

I just want to know what you can point to that shows Pagano is a good or average or whatever coach?  You've admitted he's below .500 outside of his division.  You only can point to Vontae Davis and Mike Adams out of like more than 20 secondary guys that hasn't developed under him.  The defense as a whole has gotten worse every year by ranking under him.  So other than winning the crappy AFC South what else you got?

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, tikyle said:

You implied Vontae was not great thus he was traded.  He was really good in as was Sean Smith in Miami and both were gone.  So I don't know if you are mincing words or just don't want to admit Pagano did not make them better.  The only plus I will give Pagano is that his bump and run system fit Vontae more than what they ran in Miami.

 

To me (a guy who graduated with a B to B+ average in HS, college and graduate school in engineering) below average is bad.  Actually average is not really acceptable either.  Not acceptable to be renewed.

 

If new to the website is I was on here since 2011, then yes I am new.

 

Also a good coach gets the most out of what he's given.  I will agree with you that Grigson hasn't given him much on defense.  But what has he developed in spite of that?  They both are to blame.

 

I just want to know what you can point to that shows Pagano is a good or average or whatever coach?  You've admitted he's below .500 outside of his division.  You only can point to Vontae Davis and Mike Adams out of like more than 20 secondary guys that hasn't developed under him.  The defense as a whole has gotten worse every year by ranking under him.  So other than winning the crappy AFC South what else you got?

 

2011?      My apologies......    I have not seen your handle here until recently.     I thought you were new.

 

And if you've been here reading since 2011,  then you know the topic of Chuck Pagano has been beaten to death.       There are a number of people who agree with you.      There are a number of people who agree with me.        Those two groups don't agree on that much.......

 

So,  this feels like we've hashed this to death.......       let's move on....

 

Good luck and a belated welcome to the site......

 

[Mr Coffee]

On 9/29/2016 at 7:55 AM, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

Skip Bayless' list of op 5 QBs:

1.Tom Brady

2.Tom Brady

3.Tom Brady

4.Tom Brady

5.Tom Brady.

Skip is a known Brady homer and a luck hater.  Can't stand listening to him.

[Mr Coffee]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The defense is lack of personnel.

 

The slow starts is on the non-existing running game....   personnel,  the line and the RB's....

 

Bottom line:   11 wins in each of his first three years....   one year further into the playoffs his first three years.   And 8-8 with 5 different QB's last year.       THAT'S his resume.

 

Again.....     NOTHING says he's a bad coach.

 

Now,  you can make an argument over being an average coach....   or poor in certain areas....   but on balance,  there's nothing that says bad coach.      And the word around the NFL at the end of last season, was that if Irsay had fired Pagano,  teams were lining up to hire him.      That was from NFL.com

 

You admit that the slow starts are due to a non existent running game.  If that's the case, then why does Pagano insist on running early every single game?

[Mr Coffee]

6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Absolutely, I've said a few times on the forum, drafting defense is the way to win a SB. Elway did it right. I'm a bit biased towards Grigson because a lot of the picks he chose I was high on that hit. That doesn't mean you ignore the pass rush though. We're going to need to get a few of them next year.

Not a Grigs fan by any means, but I see him doing the smart thing and using the next draft to get an outstanding player for the D-Line.  He didn't do it this past draft because he was trying to shore up the O line to prevent Luck from getting killed.  I think the O line is noticeably better this year, and will continue to make strides in the right direction as the rooks get more experience.  

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, Mr Coffee said:

You admit that the slow starts are due to a non existent running game.  If that's the case, then why does Pagano insist on running early every single game?

 

Because you don't assume that you're not going to have a running game at the start.     You have to at least make the defense stop you.     You can't make yourself a one dimensional team --- especially at the start --- you have to force the other team to make that happen.

 

It's not just a Pagano thing.....   it's the view of whoever is his OC....    Arians, Hamilton and now Chud.

 

And if it was such faulty thinking,  don't you think Grigson and Irsay would say something to him?    Force him to change?       They just rehired him and he's still doing,   so the front office supports Pagano in this way.

 

And, this past week,  Gore went off for 70 yards in the first half.    The 2nd half fall-off is a reflection of the injuries on the o-line.

 

I know this is not popular here.....    you're not alone....   but football-wise,  this is reasonable thinking.

 

[Mr Coffee]

On 10/1/2016 at 2:36 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Because you don't assume that you're not going to have a running game at the start.     You have to at least make the defense stop you.     You can't make yourself a one dimensional team --- especially at the start --- you have to force the other team to make that happen.

 

It's not just a Pagano thing.....   it's the view of whoever is his OC....    Arians, Hamilton and now Chud.

 

And if it was such faulty thinking,  don't you think Grigson and Irsay would say something to him?    Force him to change?       They just rehired him and he's still doing,   so the front office supports Pagano in this way.

 

And, this past week,  Gore went off for 70 yards in the first half.    The 2nd half fall-off is a reflection of the injuries on the o-line.

 

I know this is not popular here.....    you're not alone....   but football-wise,  this is reasonable thinking.

 

Right, I understand what you're saying, but the game has changed over the years.  Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use the passing game to set up the run with the team that we have?  It just seems like it would be a better way to go with the personnel that we currently have.