2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)

[Bluefire4]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

I don't know, Blue.....that's a team that cant get a witness..even for the King

This happened with the Heat a few years ago when they had LeBron. They still made the finals. They'll probably get their confidence back against us on Sunday. We have bigger problems than they do.

[BullsColtsFan1]

10 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I could care less about career highs that just means they shot too damn much LeBron stuffs the stat sheet better then almost any player in the history of the game an his size is absolutely perfect it's like he was made in a lab 

I don't disagree that LeBron has the perfect size and stuffs the stat sheet because he obviously does.  He's averaging like 26 8 and 7 or something crazy but Kobe had that killer instinct to take over games which LeBron doesn't have.  He'd rather pass at the end of games instead of taking the last shot himself.  I mean look who hit the clutch shots in game 7 of the finals last year, Kyrie.   Kobe also is 2nd at his position in assists as a 30,000 point scorer.  He should have been more selfish at times imo.  It's honestly a matter of an opinion.  I'll take Kobe every time but I couldn't question someone taking LeBron over Kobe.  Both are great players in their own way, can't really go wrong with either.  I just don't like LeBron's attitude.  He plays player, coach and GM, when they win he does it with so little, when they are losing, he doesn't have enough.  As far as best all around player of all time, he's up there but people tend to forget what Big O averaged and Wilt.  I'd say Westbrook is stuffing the stat sheet to this year? 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I don't disagree that LeBron has the perfect size and stuffs the stat sheet because he obviously does.  He's averaging like 26 8 and 7 or something crazy but Kobe had that killer instinct to take over games which LeBron doesn't have.  He'd rather pass at the end of games instead of taking the last shot himself.  I mean look who hit the clutch shots in game 7 of the finals last year, Kyrie.   Kobe also is 2nd at his position in assists as a 30,000 point scorer.  He should have been more selfish at times imo.  It's honestly a matter of an opinion.  I'll take Kobe every time but I couldn't question someone taking LeBron over Kobe.  Both are great players in their own way, can't really go wrong with either.  I just don't like LeBron's attitude.  He plays player, coach and GM, when they win he does it with so little, when they are losing, he doesn't have enough.  As far as best all around player of all time, he's up there but people tend to forget what Big O averaged and Wilt.  I'd say Westbrook is stuffing the stat sheet to this year? 

Westbrook will never be in discussions with James and Jordan just for the simple fact that he takes 75,000 %s a game to get his points and 90% his shot selection is poor as he'll 

[BullsColtsFan1]

My Bulls are 4-0 against the Cavs this year.  That's only the 2nd time in LeBron's career that he's been swept by a team during the regular season.  That's 20 wins in a row at home on TNT!  11-13 wins against the Cavs in the last 24 too. The bad news is the Bulls schedule consists of Atlanta(who they've struggled against) and all the other teams are below .500(which they struggle against), so don't get to worked up Pacers fans.  They have a golden opportunity though especially with the Pacers, Bucks and Heat's remaining schedule. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Westbrook will never be in discussions with James and Jordan just for the simple fact that he takes 75,000 %s a game to get his points and 90% his shot selection is poor as he'll 

He's not in the discussion with Jordan or LeBron but in the discussion as one of the best all around players to play the game.  Dude's averaging a triple double with bums(other than Oladipo).  No one's averaged a triple double since Oscar, it's dang near impossible to do.  If you put up 57 13 and 11, your pretty special imo. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

He's not in the discussion with Jordan or LeBron but in the discussion as one of the best all around players to play the game.  Dude's averaging a triple double with bums(other than Oladipo).  No one's averaged a triple double since Oscar, it's dang near impossible to do.  If you put up 57 13 and 11, your pretty special imo. 

Yeah I like Westbrook too he's got a boatload of talent I just think if he would play a little more careful and smarter he would be perfect 

[BullsColtsFan1]

7 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah I like Westbrook too he's got a boatload of talent I just think if he would play a little more careful and smarter he would be perfect 

More under control?  I'd agree with that.  He does turn it over a lot but he's got the ball in his hands 90% of the time.  He's probably asked to do the most out of any player in the league.  He's got a strong motor that's for sure.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, BullsColtsFan1 said:

More under control?  I'd agree with that.  He does turn it over a lot but he's got the ball in his hands 90% of the time.  He's probably asked to do the most out of any player in the league.  He's got a strong motor that's for sure.

He never stops that's for sure lol 

[2006Coltsbestever]

46 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I don't disagree that LeBron has the perfect size and stuffs the stat sheet because he obviously does.  He's averaging like 26 8 and 7 or something crazy but Kobe had that killer instinct to take over games which LeBron doesn't have.  He'd rather pass at the end of games instead of taking the last shot himself.  I mean look who hit the clutch shots in game 7 of the finals last year, Kyrie.   Kobe also is 2nd at his position in assists as a 30,000 point scorer.  He should have been more selfish at times imo.  It's honestly a matter of an opinion.  I'll take Kobe every time but I couldn't question someone taking LeBron over Kobe.  Both are great players in their own way, can't really go wrong with either.  I just don't like LeBron's attitude.  He plays player, coach and GM, when they win he does it with so little, when they are losing, he doesn't have enough.  As far as best all around player of all time, he's up there but people tend to forget what Big O averaged and Wilt.  I'd say Westbrook is stuffing the stat sheet to this year? 

Yeah everyone pretty much knows my Top 10 ever list and LeBron is on it but I have him at 10. I just don't think he's been better than Jordan, Magic, Kobe, or Bird regarding floor players. Regarding the Big's I would have Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, and Shaq rated higher than LeBron as well. That is 9 players so I put LeBron at 10. I rank LeBron slightly better than Oscar and it's only mainly due to his size as both are great all-around players but LeBron is near the perfect athlete. You also have Hakeem who I left out of the top 10. There have been so many greats that it is tough leaving off certain players. I didn't mention Karl Malone either, he never won a Championship but he is the greatest pure PF ever as many consider Duncan a Center.

[BullsColtsFan1]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah everyone pretty much knows my Top 10 ever list and LeBron is on it but I have him at 10. I just don't think he's been better than Jordan, Magic, Kobe, or Bird regarding floor players. Regarding the Big's I would have Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, and Shaq rated higher than LeBron as well. That is 9 players so I put LeBron at 10. I rank LeBron slightly better than Oscar and it's only mainly due to his size as both are great all-around players but LeBron is near the perfect athlete. You also have Hakeem who I left out of the top 10. There have been so many greats that it is tough leaving off certain players. I didn't mention Karl Malone either, he never won a Championship but he is the greatest pure PF ever as many consider Duncan a Center.

I can't really argue to much with your opinion.  I do believe Duncan is considered as a PF though, he didn't start playing Center until his later years 2010+.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I can't really argue to much with your opinion.  I do believe Duncan is considered as a PF though, he didn't start playing Center until his later years 2010+.

Yeah a lot of people consider him a Center but a lot of the media also say Duncan is the greatest PF ever. He plays both but he was a PF when Robinson was on that team no doubt.

[2006Coltsbestever]

LeBron has been the best player this decade IMO = 2010-2017 but it's a misconception to automatically put him in the Top 5 of all-time just because he has been the best player in a certain decade. He is an awesome athlete and someone you can build around to turn a franchise around obviously. Every player I have rated in front of him I can make great arguments to why they are better though. Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Russell, Duncan, and Shaq all have won more Championships so winning wise LeBron hasn't done anything those guys haven't done better. He has the same amount as Bird has = 3. Bird stayed with the same franchise and won 3 though. Bird also help save the league along with Magic during the 80's. I just love guys with killer instinct, always have and players like Jordan, Magic, Kobe, and Bird have it more than LeBron does. When it comes to Wilt, he did only win 2 Championships but statistically LeBron will never sniff his averages in Points or Rebounding. Dude scored 100 in 1 game as well. Anyone that ranks LeBron higher than Wilt was born yesterday. LeBron at #10 fits IMO, it is a great ranking and not a dis at all, Top 10 is the Elite of the Elite. I know some older people that think Oscar was even better but I wont go that far with it. I give LeBron the edge there. Gavin had Hakeem in his Top 10 when we did our lists a while back too. I have Hakeem barely missing.

[Colts_Fan12]

26 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LeBron has been the best player this decade IMO = 2010-2017 but it's a misconception to automatically put him in the Top 5 of all-time just because he has been the best player in a certain decade. He is an awesome athlete and someone you can build around to turn a franchise around obviously. Every player I have rated in front of him I can make great arguments to why they are better though. Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Russell, Duncan, and Shaq all have won more Championships so winning wise LeBron hasn't done anything those guys haven't done better. He has the same amount as Bird has = 3. Bird stayed with the same franchise and won 3 though. Bird also help save the league along with Magic during the 80's. I just love guys with killer instinct, always have and players like Jordan, Magic, Kobe, and Bird have it more than LeBron does. When it comes to Wilt, he did only win 2 Championships but statistically LeBron will never sniff his averages in Points or Rebounding. Dude scored 100 in 1 game as well. Anyone that ranks LeBron higher than Wilt was born yesterday. LeBron at #10 fits IMO, it is a great ranking and not a dis at all, Top 10 is the Elite of the Elite. I know some older people that think Oscar was even better but I wont go that far with it. I give LeBron the edge there. Gavin had Hakeem in his Top 10 when we did our lists a while back too. I have Hakeem barely missing.

You are making championships too important to your grading who cares that's a team acompishment not individual it's the same way with Peyton he's 100000 times better then Brady Brady just had better teams 

[dgambill]

I can't stand Lebron...but he is Magic on steroids though. Name one thing that Magic does better than Lebron....defense nope...driving to the hoop...nope...shooter...nope...passing nope. Leader push. Fact is Lebron is superior to Magic in every way....you guys might think killer attitude is this end all be all thing but Lebron understands basketball...understands situations and knows that in game ending scenerios the right play is to get the ball in Kyries hands...or Ray Allen. He makes the high percentage play...and when its him that is the high percentage play he makes it. Look...Lebron is one of my least favorite basketball players in the NBA but he is way better than Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan and just about anyone not named Michael Jordan. He makes everyone on his team better and is virtually unstoppable and a defensive nightmare...ask Iggy if you feel safe on a fast break. I'd imagine his plus minus and offensive efficiencies if you choose to look it up is off the charts. The guy is just a freak of nature....he is a top 5 talent hands down.....there is a reason why he makes the finals every year....and he hasn't always had the best team...although his complaints this year about the team around him was borderline cry baby for sure.

[dgambill]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, Bluefire4 said:

How does Vince Carter have 21 points???

This Vince Carter??

 

 

 

The man is like a fine wine. Honestly he is just a really special athlete. He will probably come back again next year too. A veteran leader that any team would kill to have.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You are making championships too important to your grading who cares that's a team acompishment not individual it's the same way with Peyton he's 100000 times better then Brady Brady just had better teams 

Championships are important but not the only thing I base my rankings on. I know Championships are just a one factor in ranking players. Stats and MVP's are too. LeBron does have 4 League MVP's so that puts him in top 10 automatically like it puts Peyton in the top 5 QB's as well (Peyton has won 5). I look at Stats too and what era players played in, LeBron's Stats as great as they are don't come close to Wilt or Kareem has done. They aren't as great as Jordan's either and Jordan even has more League MVP's with 5. Magic's Stats aren't gaudy but his career was cut short due to HIV, he still had over 10,000 Assists and he led his teams to 9 NBA Finals winning 5. Most people that put LeBron in the Top 5 or think he is in the same class as Jordan are people that are in the early 30's or younger. They don't remember the 80's. The 80's IMO was the best decade in Basketball. So era is important.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

50 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I can't stand Lebron...but he is Magic on steroids though. Name one thing that Magic does better than Lebron....defense nope...driving to the hoop...nope...shooter...nope...passing nope. Leader push. Fact is Lebron is superior to Magic in every way....you guys might think killer attitude is this end all be all thing but Lebron understands basketball...understands situations and knows that in game ending scenerios the right play is to get the ball in Kyries hands...or Ray Allen. He makes the high percentage play...and when its him that is the high percentage play he makes it. Look...Lebron is one of my least favorite basketball players in the NBA but he is way better than Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan and just about anyone not named Michael Jordan. He makes everyone on his team better and is virtually unstoppable and a defensive nightmare...ask Iggy if you feel safe on a fast break. I'd imagine his plus minus and offensive efficiencies if you choose to look it up is off the charts. The guy is just a freak of nature....he is a top 5 talent hands down.....there is a reason why he makes the finals every year....and he hasn't always had the best team...although his complaints this year about the team around him was borderline cry baby for sure.

Magic was a much better leader and more clutch, much better Passer too = making everyone around him better. When he wanted too he could score at will like LeBron. Magic was great and taking it to the hoop and not only that he became a 90% FT shooter toward the end of his career. LeBron has always been shaky with his jumpshot and FT shooting.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I do want to add, not liking LeBron has nothing to do with where I rank him either. No offense to BullsColts but I hated Jordan way more because he won every year and stopped Reggie Miller from winning in 1998 and I think he is the GOAT. So I am not biased at all, just realistic when factoring everything in. Now days every time someone new comes along, a lot of people seem to want to crown them GOAT. I am a Cubs fan and they just won the WS and are getting lots of love but I know nobody on their team is a GOAT nor are they the greatest team of all-time. They are a great 1 year Champion and Kris Bryant is a solid League MVP.

[Jay Kirk]

4 hours ago, dgambill said:

I can't stand Lebron...but he is Magic on steroids though. Name one thing that Magic does better than Lebron....defense nope...driving to the hoop...nope...shooter...nope...passing nope. Leader push. Fact is Lebron is superior to Magic in every way....you guys might think killer attitude is this end all be all thing but Lebron understands basketball...understands situations and knows that in game ending scenerios the right play is to get the ball in Kyries hands...or Ray Allen. He makes the high percentage play...and when its him that is the high percentage play he makes it. Look...Lebron is one of my least favorite basketball players in the NBA but he is way better than Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan and just about anyone not named Michael Jordan. He makes everyone on his team better and is virtually unstoppable and a defensive nightmare...ask Iggy if you feel safe on a fast break. I'd imagine his plus minus and offensive efficiencies if you choose to look it up is off the charts. The guy is just a freak of nature....he is a top 5 talent hands down.....there is a reason why he makes the finals every year....and he hasn't always had the best team...although his complaints this year about the team around him was borderline cry baby for sure.

Its your opinion and your entitled , even though its flawed . All you must do , lets just look at the Stats  Bird against Lebron for the first 8 years lets say. Come back and talk then I already know the answer.

[2006Coltsbestever]

If we don't get it together, Toronto is going to run away with this! 57-50 Raps

[2006Coltsbestever]

Pacers lead, PG playing great right now. 60-59!

[2006Coltsbestever]

Raps back up 6, oh man!

[Jay Kirk]

Addressing todays NBA stars your not in the same gym with the likes of Bird Magic Jordan Russell , should I continue. Over all Lazy no D and a lot of whining . Lol they wouldn't have cut it in the Big Boy league of the past.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

Addressing todays NBA stars your not in the same gym with the likes of Bird Magic Jordan Russell , should I continue. Over all Lazy no D and a lot of whining . Lol they wouldn't have cut it in the Big Boy league of the past.

Most people that have LeBron ranked in the Top 5 or think he is the 2nd best or even the GOAT are in their early 30's or younger. I have argued this subject at nauseam that LeBron isn't near the GOAT with several people who are younger than me but they wont listen. He isn't better than Larry Bird or Magic Johnson, I have seen them all play for their whole career's LIVE, my opinion isn't king or anything but it's obvious to me who the better players are. If I was to ask a question to any LeBron fan, who would you take in an all-time Draft - LeBron or Wilt? LeBron or Kareem? LeBron or Shaq? Anyone that says LeBron has me wondering if they know the history of Basketball. But yet ESPN media in general put him up there with Jordan and he just by miracle passed everyone who ever played by winning a 3rd Championship. It's really funny. If he was even near Jordan he would never lose with the teams he has had. The Cavs are 34,000,000 million over payroll and they aren't winning it all this season. Jordan would never lose with the team LeBron has, they would probably win 70 games.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Pacers are going to lose this tonight, in danger of falling out of the Playoffs.

[dgambill]

30 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

Its your opinion and your entitled , even though its flawed . All you must do , lets just look at the Stats  Bird against Lebron for the first 8 years lets say. Come back and talk then I already know the answer.

You mean Larry Bird who came in 22 years old vs 18 year old Lebron. Larry who played on some of the most loaded Boston Celtic teams of all time? Larry was great but I'm sorry he was not as good as Lebron. It isn't that close really. Larry had so many more advantages over Lebron in who he played with it isn't even close. Larry played with like 4 or 5 of the NBAs 50 greatest of all time. Lebron has played with one. It's all opinions and I grew up watching Larry but I can't put him ahead of Lebron. There is no question Larry is a superior shooter but Lebron can do things on the court that no man can. I hate to give Lebron any props at all but putting Kobe or some of these other guys on his level that only effected portions of the game and not all facets is a disservice to him. I will admit Larry and Magic affected the game in a similar all encompassing way but Lebron is just a level above in how he makes his team better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You mean Larry Bird who came in 22 years old vs 18 year old Lebron. Larry who played on some of the most loaded Boston Celtic teams of all time? Larry was great but I'm sorry he was not as good as Lebron. It isn't that close really. Larry had so many more advantages over Lebron in who he played with it isn't even close. Larry played with like 4 or 5 of the NBAs 50 greatest of all time. Lebron has played with one. It's all opinions and I grew up watching Larry but I can't put him ahead of Lebron. There is no question Larry is a superior shooter but Lebron can do things on the court that no man can. I hate to give Lebron any props at all but putting Kobe or some of these other guys on his level that only effected portions of the game and not all facets is a disservice to him. I will admit Larry and Magic affected the game in a similar all encompassing way but Lebron is just a level above in how he makes his team better.

I respect your opinion and you sound like you are around my age as well. Having said that I have never seen a player better than Magic at making his team better. His leadership and team play was unmatched IMO. Bird was similar and Bird's shooting was deadly. LeBron is a better athlete but better athlete doesnt always mean better player. Dominique Wilkins was twice the athlete Bird was and Bird smoked him on many head to head occassions like in the 1988 Semi's in Game 7. Vince Carter is one of the best athlete's of all-time and he isn't even a Top 50 player of all-time. A lot of people get caught up with LeBron's physique stature. I do think he is a Top 10 player of all-time so I am not a too much of a hater. I know plenty of people that think he isn't even that. My dad doesn't for example, he thinks Wilt is the GOAT as well. So many different opinions but that is what makes debates fun.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Pacers may be Golfing come Playoff time. Pathetic performance tonight down the stretch.

[dgambill]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I respect your opinion and you sound like you are around my age as well. Having said that I have never seen a player better than Magic at making his team better. His leadership and team play was unmatched IMO. Bird was similar and Bird's shooting was deadly. LeBron is a better athlete but better athlete doesnt always mean better player. Dominique Wilkins was twice the athlete Bird was and Bird smoked him on many head to head occassions like in the 1988 Semi's in Game 7. Vince Carter is one of the best athlete's of all-time and he isn't even a Top 50 player of all-time. A lot of people get caught up with LeBron's physique stature. I do think he is a Top 10 player of all-time so I am not a too much of a hater. I know plenty of people that think he isn't even that. My dad doesn't for example, he thinks Wilt is the GOAT as well. So many different opinions but that is what makes debates fun.

You mean when Wilkins went off on him for 47 points to birds 34? Bird got the last laugh but that's a horrible example and even though nique was my favorite player growing up he was never a lock down defender like Lebron. I mean do you remeber watching Lebron single handily destroying the Pistons and taking that AWFUL cavs team to the championship against the Spurs. Magic and Larry weren't playing with scrubs like that. They weren't playing with Deladova as the second best player two years ago and almost single handedly pushing GS to the limit. I'm not going to sit here and argue this anymore though. I'm physically getting nauseous just saying nice stuff about Lebron so I'm going to drop this....you all win...even though I won't agree. I feel dirty even saying this stuff about Lebron. I can't continue this discussion.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

You mean when Wilkins went off on him for 47 points to birds 34? Bird got the last laugh but that's a horrible example and even though nique was my favorite player growing up he was never a lock down defender like Lebron. I mean do you remeber watching Lebron single handily destroying the Pistons and taking that AWFUL cavs team to the championship against the Spurs. Magic and Larry weren't playing with scrubs like that. They weren't playing with Deladova as the second best player two years ago and almost single handedly pushing GS to the limit. I'm not going to sit here and argue this anymore though. I'm physically getting nauseous just saying nice stuff about Lebron so I'm going to drop this....you all win...even though I won't agree. I feel dirty even saying this stuff about Lebron. I can't continue this discussion.

That's cool. I just don't see or feel the invincibility that Jordan had when it comes to LeBron. Jordan never lost in a Finals, (Kobe was 5-2 in Finals as well which is highly respectable, Duncan 5-1) LeBron has feasted off of a weak Eastern Conference for years but has been very suspect in Finals play vs the West. A lot of people like to say LeBron has made 6 straight Finals and make it a huge deal but everyone that says that, knows damn good and well he would never of made 6 Finals in a row had he played in the West. He has had loaded teams over the last 6 seasons with Wade and Bosh and Allen, now with Irving and Love and every damn player they can pick up like even Korver (name 1 other team that is 34,000,000 over the Cap - that is ridiculous and unfair). I am done with it as well. Everyone has their different opinions and me having LeBron ranked 10th all-time and best player of this decade is far from hatred. Just because I don't think he is 2nd right with Jordan doesn't mean I don't think he isn't great. Regarding the Bird vs Nique example, Bird outdueled him in the 4th Qtr was my point and won the game and Nique was twice the Athlete he was. Bird also had his career high of 60 points vs Nique in a game, I think it was in 1985 at Atlanta where he was torching the whole Hawks team hittng 3's from 30 feet, etc..

[2006Coltsbestever]

Warriors just polished off Houston again. 10 straight wins. They are cruising without Durant, Curry just destroying Houston! Go Warriors, get your Title back so the LeBron GOAThype can end. Cavs want no part of the Warriors this season and they know it after what took place last season. I am not even a Warriors fan but I am going to enjoy the Playoffs  

[Jay Kirk]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

You mean Larry Bird who came in 22 years old vs 18 year old Lebron. Larry who played on some of the most loaded Boston Celtic teams of all time? Larry was great but I'm sorry he was not as good as Lebron. It isn't that close really. Larry had so many more advantages over Lebron in who he played with it isn't even close. Larry played with like 4 or 5 of the NBAs 50 greatest of all time. Lebron has played with one. It's all opinions and I grew up watching Larry but I can't put him ahead of Lebron. There is no question Larry is a superior shooter but Lebron can do things on the court that no man can. I hate to give Lebron any props at all but putting Kobe or some of these other guys on his level that only effected portions of the game and not all facets is a disservice to him. I will admit Larry and Magic affected the game in a similar all encompassing way but Lebron is just a level above in how he makes his team better.

I see the where your coming from to an extent , however I still don't think these players today could deal with the Physicality of the past. I will take top 10 no more and not because of dislike. Hes a great player . Best ever ? Not by a long shot. IMO that title belongs to Big O.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

I see the where your coming from to an extent , however I still don't think these players today could deal with the Physicality of the past. I will take top 10 no more and not because of dislike. Hes a great player . Best ever ? Not by a long shot. IMO that title belongs to Big O.

Jay we are probably viewed as grumpy old men by some in here . As we go way back, I started watching in the 70's but mainly grew up with the 80's as a teenager. I don't think there was a more physical decade than the 80's with teams like the Celtics and Pistons into the early 90's with those Knicks teams. Most players today couldn't handle the physicality of teams like that. Imagine the first time Rick Mahorn or Bill Laimbeer close lined LeBron, LeBron would be lying on the floor for 20 minutes rolling around. He barely gets hit and does that now at times. I am with you on the subject, LeBron is in the Top 10 but not even close to the GOAT. I have him and Big O pretty even for that 10th spot. I still think it's between Jordan and Magic for GOAT, I give the nod to Jordan but to me Magic was the better Leader.

[RockThatBlue]

With all the expectations this season, not making the playoffs would be a colossal failure. But we would at least get a pretty good draft pick.

[RockThatBlue]

On 3/30/2017 at 11:14 PM, oldunclemark said:

I don't think people are seeing the Cavs clearly......lost 10 of 16

They have a regular season slump almost every year. They'll be fine.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

With all the expectations this season, not making the playoffs would be a colossal failure. But we would at least get a pretty good draft pick.

I cant remember a more disappointing season where expectations were so high. I may have to go back to 2005 when the malice at the Palace happened, Reggie's last season. That tore our team apart in 2005. We were a top 3 team that season along with the Pistons and Spurs before that. In 2015 PG was out so I didn't expect much that season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

They have a regular season slump almost every year. They'll be fine.

I think so too. I think they win the East but I like the Warriors to win it all.

[oldunclemark]

9 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

They have a regular season slump almost every year. They'll be fine.

Cleveland vs. Toronto...who wins?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Cleveland vs. Toronto...who wins?

Cleveland. Only 2 teams that can/WILL beat Cleveland are out West = Warriors and Spurs.

[Jay Kirk]

45 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jay we are probably viewed as grumpy old men by some in here . As we go way back, I started watching in the 70's but mainly grew up with the 80's as a teenager. I don't think there was a more physical decade than the 80's with teams like the Celtics and Pistons into the early 90's with those Knicks teams. Most players today couldn't handle the physicality of teams like that. Imagine the first time Rick Mahorn or Bill Laimbeer close lined LeBron, LeBron would be lying on the floor for 20 minutes rolling around. He barely gets hit and does that now at times. I am with you on the subject, LeBron is in the Top 10 but not even close to the GOAT. I have him and Big O pretty even for that 10th spot. I still think it's between Jordan and Magic for GOAT, I give the nod to Jordan but to me Magic was the better Leader.

See lol I go even farther back I watched Wilt,  Big O , Havlacheck , West, Russell so on .