Was Luck Pushed In To "Greatness"

[King Colt]

Watching NFL Total Access this morning it was said maybe the expectations and hype on Luck were not applicable to what he is so far. He could be just a good QB instead of one of the elites. I am not sure they are wrong. Maybe being the number one daft after the career of Manning added to the hype. Right now he is not setting the league on fire and by this stage he is not looking "elite". I am not criticizing him because I believe he is more than enough to guide a good team to a trophy so when they get a good team things will change. By the way the predictions for the Colts on this program this morning are 2-14 to 4-12. Can't say I agree with those numbers if their injured list gets better.

[WoolMagnet]

What is elite?

dan Marino with #s and no rings? 

Russel Wilson with no #s but a defense?

trent differ with a ring?

aaron Rogers isn't playing any better than luck.  Is he elite?

i see Andrew as an above average QB who, if given the tools, can get you there with a little luck. ( no pun intended)

i firmly believe he started last year with injuries (I think shoulder in buff game).  Who knows, but it was obvious he wasn't 100%.  The interceptions didn't bother me so much.  He'd improve on that.  My gut says he may not be 100% now.

but if I'm Irsay, I don't know that I'd trade him for any other QB, all things considered.  I expect him to have a long, productive career.

 

and I can think of many so-called elite QBs that couldn't get a "good team" a trophy.  However I can't think of a SINGLE QB that got a bad team to a trophy.

not even Peyton.

[shakedownstreet]

last week luck was great again, this week he's back in the gutter

 

like wooly said, there is no one i'd trade him for

[Bravo]

There was some pressure to be "great" obviously, but that's what being the first pick of the draft brings. Him taking the place of Peyton Manning also added some extra pressure from the media also.

 

There is still pressure for him to be great, However he has not been great yet to this point due to many reasons. One being the team that has surrounded him, two his health, and three his turnovers. There is no one the Colts would or should trade him for and Luck is here to stay for probably his whole career.

 

Will he ever be great!? Not sure, but he is good and with some help around him and good coaching there aren't too many quarterbacks that are better than him.

 

 

[backshoulderfade]

If you actually watch games, you see there are 3 guys in the NFL who can make the kind of throws Luck does. Rodgers, Luck himself, and now maybr Jameis Winston too.

 

He is going to be a top 5 QB statistically this year, too. Just wait. He might never be the best ever, but he certainly is a top QB in this league. Even before his prind.

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

If you actually watch games, you see there are 3 guys in the NFL who can make the kind of throws Luck does. Rodgers, Luck himself, and now maybr Jameis Winston too.

 

He is going to be a top 5 QB statistically this year, too. Just wait. He might never be the best ever, but he certainly is a top QB in this league. Even before his prind.

Andrew carried us to the playoffs his first two years...certainly...1st 3 arguably

....We seem to see a lot of people talking about the Colts without knowing much about them or bothering to..

...With that as the starting point......its obviously Andrew's fault if we were 8-8 last year....even if he didn't play in half the games....

..Now, its got to be mostly his fault we're 0-2...even thought we've scored 55 points with 2 turnovers, right?

 

I guess the rest of our team is so boring to the national media that its just more convenient to say its 'Andrew this' and 'Andrew that'

[IndyTrav]

If Luck becomes Matt Ryan I'm probably OK with it. I can see that being his "floor". But I will continually hope he becomes more. 

[SteelCityColt]

It was almost impossible for Luck to not be overhyped through the combination of the shift in the football media and the whole Suck for Luck build up. That and he was a darn good college QB. 

 

His play itself has been up and down but that's to be expected given the situation he found himself in in terms of the roster and the coaching staff.

 

The best way I think to brush stroke analyse him is anyone who I trust to analyse a QB still ranks him pretty highly. That and ask yourself the question. How many picks do you think we'd need to be in a better off position than having him on the team? 

[SilentHill]

2 hours ago, King Colt said:

Watching NFL Total Access this morning it was said maybe the expectations and hype on Luck were not applicable to what he is so far. He could be just a good QB instead of one of the elites. I am not sure they are wrong. Maybe being the number one daft after the career of Manning added to the hype. Right now he is not setting the league on fire and by this stage he is not looking "elite". I am not criticizing him because I believe he is more than enough to guide a good team to a trophy so when they get a good team things will change. By the way the predictions for the Colts on this program this morning are 2-14 to 4-12. Can't say I agree with those numbers if their injured list gets better.

 

I'm pretty sure he did set the league on fire in 2014 when he lead the league in TD passes.

 

I'm not 100% sure what people expect of Andrew? He's already single handidly carried this team for the entirety of his career. He's never had a good RB, he's never had a good o-line and he's never had a good defense.

[NorthernBlue]

Like fans, Analysts are fickle. Right now we are 0-2. If in 6 weeks we're 5-3, guarantee they won't be talking about us that. 

 

Heres the thing, I know it sounds dumb but I think analysts are sometimes expected to know too much. I mean you got a handful of people talking about every single team in a 32 team league. There's no way they can know every single facet of every single team, so like 90% of their analysis is pretty cookie cutter and just based off looking at the stat sheet.

 

When analysing the colts, they probably saw three things. They're 0-2, Luck got sacked 6+ times, and he turned it over twice. So the easy thing to say is the "colts suck. Their Oline sucks and Luck sucks" 

[Everyone]

     I love how Luck was literally the best QB in the NFL week 1 and after he faced the Broncos(That makes everybody seem average/bad) He is now not even a good QB.  This kid will never get the credit he deserves because such lofty expectations were thrust upon him.  He is right now a top 10 QB, consistency is his biggest problem. When/if he figures that out he will jump to the top of the list and the #2 won't be particularly close to him.  I believe he get there and health permitting it may happen this year.

[ztboiler]

Luck has only 2 problems.  First, he had unprecedented success during the career phase where all other #1 pick QBs fail.  Second, turns out he's human.

[SteelCityColt]

12 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Luck has only 2 problems.  First, he had unprecedented success during the career phase where all other #1 pick QBs fail.  Second, turns out he's human.

 

I dunno about that part... the flip phone, Settler of Catan, designing new hospitals for children in his spare time. He's like some form of Superhero who also looks like a throw back to simpler times. Times when all a man had to worry about was taking down a mammoth and maybe a spot of cave painting. 

[luv_pony_express]

I don't see how a QB can be appropriately analyzed while he's playing behind the worst O-line in the league.

 

In other words, I'm pretty sure he's better than Jacoby Brissett.  But Brissett looked stellar the other night -- and I think that was less about him than it was the other guys around him.

 

Football is the ultimate team sport.

[luv_pony_express]

1 hour ago, NorthernBlue said:

Like fans, Analysts are fickle. Right now we are 0-2. If in 6 weeks we're 5-3, guarantee they won't be talking about us that. 

 

Heres the thing, I know it sounds dumb but I think analysts are sometimes expected to know too much. I mean you got a handful of people talking about every single team in a 32 team league. There's no way they can know every single facet of every single team, so like 90% of their analysis is pretty cookie cutter and just based off looking at the stat sheet.

 

When analysing the colts, they probably saw three things. They're 0-2, Luck got sacked 6+ times, and he turned it over twice. So the easy thing to say is the "colts suck. Their Oline sucks and Luck sucks" 

 

The Oline does suck.  It's obvious.  We can't run the ball, we can't keep our quarterback vertical, and we give up a ton of batted down balls.

 

Those symptoms all have a common denominator.

[ztboiler]

42 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

The Oline does suck.  It's obvious.  

Ahh...always good to hear the basic narrative. 

42 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

[Gavin]

Truth is the whole story wasn't being told or was but in smaller amounts and not on tv. While most of the sports media was selling you on him being the best QB prospect since John Elway what they did not sell you much is "There are times when Luck second-guessed passes and simply didn't see a breaking corner coming from another zone, such as the play that almost got Stanford beat toward the end of a high-energy USC game" and that's because fans in general do not want to hear that and that doesn't sell to an audience. Even top prospects are not finished products and Luck wasn't finished by any stretch of the imagination either. Physically he was a great prospect and mentally he was ahead of many prospects at his position but he still had a lot to learn.

 

-He is still learning to pick up some blitzes

-He is still sticking in the pocket a bit to long on some plays where guys are not getting open

-He is still learning to just let the ball go and trust his reads at times. He has double pumped sometimes in the first 2 games. however when you have wr's that don't routinely get out of there breaks quickly or know how to be deceptive or sharp in there routes and cuts then your going to hesitate and double pump on your throws at times

 

Luck has his faults. Colts brass has found every conceivable way however to leave those faults exposed or show they don't know how to properly build a roster around Luck.

 

 

 

 

[luv_pony_express]

4 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

 

Ahh...always good to hear the basic narrative.

 

Basic narrative or not, it's undeniably true.  It was our biggest single problem last year, and it seems apparent that it still is.

 

A football team can't do much of anything if it's typically getting dominated up front.

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

I don't see how a QB can be appropriately analyzed while he's playing behind the worst O-line in the league.

 

In other words, I'm pretty sure he's better than Jacoby Brissett.  But Brissett looked stellar the other night.

 

Football is the ultimate team sport.

 

 

I often hear that, but wonder what criteria people base this on?  I mean, is it QB hits?  OK, Luck has been hit more in the last 5 years than any other QB.  Sacks?  Only Cutler and Dalton have been sacked more in 2016, that's true.

 

But the line was supposed to have improved this year.  And last year, they were_not_ranked the worst, by 2 separate sites.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-the-2016-season/

 

I think Good looked ok at Tackle last year, but bad at guard, and Reitz just as bad at tackle.  Nevertheless, I do not think we have the worst O line in the NFL.  But we could sure stand to get better, especially on the right side.

 

We get dominated at times because the line is average at best.  But not every team will dominate them.

[NorthernBlue]

20 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Basic narrative or not, it's undeniably true.  It was our biggest single problem last year, and it seems apparent that it still is.

 

A football team can't do much of anything if it's typically getting dominated up front.

Okay so this is really freaky. I didn't say that, but when you quoted it, it made it look like I did. spooky.

 

But yeah its still basic narrative. Yes the teams line sucks, but they're young and growing. And they went up against amazing Dlines weeks 1 and 2. So to expect them to be amazing right away is unrealistic. 

[YourNextGM]

6 hours ago, backshoulderfade said:

If you actually watch games, you see there are 3 guys in the NFL who can make the kind of throws Luck does. Rodgers, Luck himself, and now maybr Jameis Winston too.

 

He is going to be a top 5 QB statistically this year, too. Just wait. He might never be the best ever, but he certainly is a top QB in this league. Even before his prind.

LOL @ Winston and Luckmaking throws Ben and Romo can't. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

I'm pretty sure he did set the league on fire in 2014 when he lead the league in TD passes.

 

I'm not 100% sure what people expect of Andrew? He's already single handidly carried this team for the entirety of his career. He's never had a good RB, he's never had a good o-line and he's never had a good defense.

People want him to be Peyton Manning and he's not but if you look at his career so far it has been Very Good overall regarding stats = TD passes and Yards and Good regarding overall wins. He already has 3 Playoff wins and a Title Game appearance. He isn't a Top 5 QB in todays league but he's Top 10 = Very Good on a scale of Average, Above Average, Good, Very Good, and Great. He played better than any other QB in the league in Week 1 but because we lost giving up 39 points it gets overlooked. Cant base much on last week as the Broncos make most QB's look bad and we still had a chance to win at the end. Cam has had 2 bad games vs them one being the SB, Brady was even getting knocked around by them in last seasons AFC Title Game making mistakes. Andrew isn't Great YET but he is Very Good, the guy has had no run game his entire career and he still wins 60% of his starts. The Colts have had 1 game where a rusher has went 100 Yards in his entire career, with that kind of stat most QB's would lose every week.

[Beizy317]

Luck is not the problem here, it's the team that has been assembled around him. 

[jbaron04]

Can tell if it's his wr not working back to the ball or what but his come back throws always are the ones to get picked 

[gacoop1]

$141 million dollar bust!

[Malakai432]

13 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

What is elite?

dan Marino with #s and no rings? 

Russel Wilson with no #s but a defense?

trent differ with a ring?

aaron Rogers isn't playing any better than luck.  Is he elite?

i see Andrew as an above average QB who, if given the tools, can get you there with a little luck. ( no pun intended)

i firmly believe he started last year with injuries (I think shoulder in buff game).  Who knows, but it was obvious he wasn't 100%.  The interceptions didn't bother me so much.  He'd improve on that.  My gut says he may not be 100% now.

but if I'm Irsay, I don't know that I'd trade him for any other QB, all things considered.  I expect him to have a long, productive career.

 

and I can think of many so-called elite QBs that couldn't get a "good team" a trophy.  However I can't think of a SINGLE QB that got a bad team to a trophy.

not even Peyton.

 

Yeah Cam Newton also played like utter garbage today and hasn't been good this year at all and all we hear about is Luck this, Luck that especially in the media.  The fact of the matter is Luck is outperforming Cam this year by a good margin on what many could consider an inferior team.

 

I'll be the first to admit my criticism of Luck has been there as well but a lot of good  QBs aren't playing good this year.  Still plenty of season left in a garbage division to turn this thing around. I don't even think Luck is really playing bad, it just seems like we continue to see the same mistakes which is what is frustrating. 

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, King Colt said:

Watching NFL Total Access this morning it was said maybe the expectations and hype on Luck were not applicable to what he is so far. He could be just a good QB instead of one of the elites. I am not sure they are wrong. Maybe being the number one daft after the career of Manning added to the hype. Right now he is not setting the league on fire and by this stage he is not looking "elite". I am not criticizing him because I believe he is more than enough to guide a good team to a trophy so when they get a good team things will change. By the way the predictions for the Colts on this program this morning are 2-14 to 4-12. Can't say I agree with those numbers if their injured list gets better.

 

 

Oh,  Dear God.......     How do I make this stop?!?     

[King Colt]

Seems to me when it is said he is getting hit too often due to his inability to take the fall 100% of the people on the various shows agree. When he fumbled in the SD game that lead to their TD look at how he stood erect and stepped forward in to the tacklers instead of going down. Don't forget also he now has a shoulder issue.

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

$141 million dollar bust!

You have to be kidding me. You have even topped yourself with nonsense on top of nonsense.

I noticed you haven't taken me up on the bet yet. Why is that?

[superrep1967]

16 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

last week luck was great again, this week he's back in the gutter

 

like wooly said, there is no one i'd trade him for

That's exactly right I wouldn't either. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Andrew Luck is a great football player.  He has had bad games but he's also had tons of really good games.  I like the fact that he's athletic, strong and fast for a QB.  There aren't many QB's I would take over him right now in the league.  He's young too.  Yes he should limit his mistakes but he's a dang good player imo.  I just think he needs a little more to work with. 

[life long]

He looked good all season to me. If you have a qb who does as much as luck, mistakes will happen. Peyton turned the ball over a lot his earlier years too. Personally I think he has a chance to have a great career in indy. To win superbowls you need a complete team. The closer this team gets to having a better roster, which imo they have been, then I think we can enjoy being perennial contenders. Obviously injuries will always play a factor every year, but I'm hoping we get and stay healthy this year. If so I think we could beat anyone even with our lack of an elite pass rusher and rb. Mathis will hopefully play better , I think gore has played well but hopefully we grab a rb and rush lb in the first two rounds of the next draft.

[RockThatBlue]

23 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

$141 million dollar bust!

Go away.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

And those are the same "experts" who continually hyped RGThrough. If Luck "just wins" (Tebow) I could care less what they think.

 

Pushed into greatness? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Was Peyton "pushed into greatness"? They both were handed a situation and performed to the best of their abilities. So far I choose Luck. He has been making more of what he was given. Is he reckless? Yes sometimes. I will take that any day over a timid play it safe game manager or someone who curls into the fetal position at the least sign of the pocket collapsing.

 

"Do or do not. There is no try."

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:04 AM, King Colt said:

Watching NFL Total Access this morning it was said maybe the expectations and hype on Luck were not applicable to what he is so far. He could be just a good QB instead of one of the elites. I am not sure they are wrong. Maybe being the number one daft after the career of Manning added to the hype. Right now he is not setting the league on fire and by this stage he is not looking "elite". I am not criticizing him because I believe he is more than enough to guide a good team to a trophy so when they get a good team things will change. By the way the predictions for the Colts on this program this morning are 2-14 to 4-12. Can't say I agree with those numbers if their injured list gets better.

BOTH # 1 picks 

 

Manning did not follow a legend Luck did & based on his first 3 seasons did better than the legend both had a major injury 2011 - 2015  both had bad d's & bad o-lines , 18 had Faulk then the Edge , 12 has had no one even close considering these things its a miracle Luck had 3 straight 11-5 seasons to start his career in 18's first 3 he had 1 season as good .

 

As with 18 the best is yet to come give him a top RB & things will be much better .

 

SO IMHO beauty is in the eyes of the beholder Luck does'nt have a Harrison or Wayne or a RB that is equal to what Manning had yet in a short time has proved he is more than capable ELITE will come as it did for Manning it just won't come over night or without the weapons 18 did not become 18 by his self & 12 will not cannot either , He is not whats holding him back the talent around him is . 

[CF4L]

I think people had very unrealistic expectations about Luck since Day 1 

 

I never expected him to be better but that was what he has been hyped as before he was ever drafted remember the whole "Suck for Luck"

Didn't help that we saw Luck take the team to the playoffs right off the gate win a few games even at the expense of Manning no less. Now he seems to be faltering of course so have the Colts as a whole so I don't entirely fault him. Then last season even a diminished Manning managed to win an SB and the Colts have yet to get there. When you talk about how we are to win more SBs etc but can't even be consistent this comes back to haunt you. To be fair this isn't Luck's doing this is Irsay's.

Long term I get the decision 31 other teams would've done the same but I think at the same time most of this fanbase here took the Manning years for granted.

Winning 12+ games every season was an aberration not the norm he made it seem like it was. 

Now people will finally realize how hard it truly is to be good for so long.

 

 

Luck is very good but he's not the transcendant player Manning was and I never expected or needed him to be either.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Manning did not start out as good as Luck & he had a running game & he also played 8 seasons before he won a SB , So IMO the comparison is a lil off . 

 

To be fair give Luck a first round RB a Faulk or Edge or even Addai first & a few more years . 

 

3 11-5  seasons & no running game means Luck has done more with less around him .  Your comparison is lacking in context .

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

Manning did not start out as good as Luck & he had a running game & he also played 8 seasons before he won a SB , So IMO the comparison is a lil off . 

 

To be fair give Luck a first round RB a Faulk or Edge or even Addai first & a few more years . 

 

3 11-5  seasons & no running game means Luck has done more with less around him .  Your comparison is lacking in context .

Peyton didn't get great until year 6 - 2003. We did go 13-3 in 1999 but that had a lot to do with James leading the league in rushing.

[CF4L]

7 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

Manning did not start out as good as Luck & he had a running game & he also played 8 seasons before he won a SB , So IMO the comparison is a lil off . 

 

To be fair give Luck a first round RB a Faulk or Edge or even Addai first & a few more years . 

 

3 11-5  seasons & no running game means Luck has done more with less around him .  Your comparison is lacking in context .

 

Lacking context? He had a run game with Ballard the rookie season but he was made of glass sadly. Manning played in the AFC East where Marino and Kelly were still the QBs Luck barely had much to deal with in the lowly AFC South.

 

Manning got to an SB will Luck? 

 

That's what you should be asking Jimbo complained about only 1 SB there's a strong possibility we won't get that at all with Luck with the team currently assembled.

 

Manning only had two bad years here as a Colt. Only started 0-2 once in his career. He took us to the playoffs every other year but those.

 

Regardless Manning also had a better GM and coach and lower expectations because he only replaced Jim Harbaugh.

 

Luck is replacing a legend especially one who ended up having a decent stint with the Broncos and ended his career with the SB victory.

 

Luck is very good but if you're going to say he's Manning's equal or better he would be able to carry the franchise like he did. He can't at least at this current state.

 

 

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

40 minutes ago, CF4L said:

I think people had very unrealistic expectations about Luck since Day 1 

 

I never expected him to be better but that was what he has been hyped as before he was ever drafted remember the whole "Suck for Luck"

Didn't help that we saw Luck take the team to the playoffs right off the gate win a few games even at the expense of Manning no less. Now he seems to be faltering of course so have the Colts as a whole so I don't entirely fault him. Then last season even a diminished Manning managed to win an SB and the Colts have yet to get there. When you talk about how we are to win more SBs etc but can't even be consistent this comes back to haunt you. To be fair this isn't Luck's doing this is Irsay's.

Long term I get the decision 31 other teams would've done the same but I think at the same time most of this fanbase here took the Manning years for granted.

Winning 12+ games every season was an aberration not the norm he made it seem like it was. 

Now people will finally realize how hard it truly is to be good for so long.

 

 

Luck is very good but he's not the transcendant player Manning was and I never expected or needed him to be either.

 

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton didn't get great until year 6 - 2003. We did go 13-3 in 1999 but that had a lot to do with James leading the league in rushing.

 Yes Manning did have 1 season in his early years comparable to Luck but Luck was consistent without the RB help .

  Luck had a lot of pressure placed on him to perform at a high level from day 1 we fans & the media  have held him to a higher level  than we ever did with 18 ..

 

I had forgotten to quote the above post in my reply thank you for your input 18 did not reach his first SB in his first 4 years of being a Colt & he may have won a second SB as QB he would not have if it were not for the Bronco Defense his accomplishment last season was every bit as great as Ravens QB Trent Dilfer .