Thoughts After Eagles-Colts Preseason Game #3

[DougDew]

I watched the game.  Comparing offenses, it looked to me like Bradford dropped back quicker, released the ball quicker, and his WRs were on shorter routes and were open on those routes.  

[King Colt]

I just watched "it" this Sunday morning and only the Bears look worse in preseason. Luck was sacked three times in the first quarter and three points were scored. Luck even got whacked in the second quarter on a quick count snap. He was under the gun for the entire first half. Disregard the stats on the three sacks instead know the OL stunk the entire first half.  They had more penalties than points in the first half. With 3:59 left in the third quarter an audible to pass was called but not heard so the QB threw a perfect pitch to the defender. Again, "pathetic" s the word. The only TD in the first half came from a blocked punt. The second half showed there are some guys on this team wanting to play football but all of them will be cut for daring to think such thoughts.

 

Memo To Irsay and all his cronies;

    Do you honestly think the fans believe a word you say when year after year we watch the SB just like the Colts players? Oh, and New England is the odds on favorite to go to the Super Bowl this year without Brady for 1/4 of the season. What does that tell you Irsay?.

 

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I watched the game.  Comparing offenses, it looked to me like Bradford dropped back quicker, released the ball quicker, and his WRs were on shorter routes and were open on those routes.  

All I can say to that is I sure hope you're wrong.  Bradford is barely a placeholder at QB at this point. 

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

I just watched "it" this Sunday morning and only the Bears look worse in preseason. Luck was sacked three times in the first quarter and three points were scored. Luck even got whacked in the second quarter on a quick count snap. He was under the gun for the entire first half. Disregard the stats on the three sacks instead know the OL stunk the entire first half.  They had more penalties than points in the first half. With 3:59 left in the third quarter an audible to pass was called but not heard so the QB threw a perfect pitch to the defender. Again, "pathetic" s the word. The only TD in the first half came from a blocked punt. The second half showed there are some guys on this team wanting to play football but all of them will be cut for daring to think such thoughts.

 

Memo To Irsay and all his cronies;

    Do you honestly think the fans believe a word you say when year after year we watch the SB just like the Colts players? Oh, and New England is the odds on favorite to go to the Super Bowl this year without Brady for 1/4 of the season. What does that tell you Irsay?.

 

They're loaded at key positions and their QB makes up for the flaws?  I will say that Garoppolo looked awful against Carolina.  So there's that.  

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

All I can say to that is I sure hope you're wrong.  Bradford is barely a placeholder at QB at this point. 

Maybe something from Chip Kelly's system carried over to this year.  Their offense just looked quicker than the Colts'.

[krunk]

I watched the game this morning, but still would like to go back another time and rewatch when I can.  There was a lot of pressure mostly from Costanzo.  Kelly had a couple issues, and Clark sucked as we all figure he will early on. Good did alright to me outside of the false start and I think one play where I saw him get walked back a little bit by Taylor Hart into Lucks throwing lane.  I think we've gotten better at designing hot routes and screens for Luck to defeat the zero pressures.  I saw us defeat a number of them, but we are still not blocking them well.  Still feel like we will be okay with a full week of game planning versus how we approach these preseason games. Getting Reitz back will help and I'm really glad Mewhort is only out 2-4weeks and will not require surgery.  Don't feel like we will consistently see Kelly have a bad game so I don't have much concern there.  

 

I think there's some kind of issue with Costanzo going on that needs to be fixed ASAP, but I don't expect him to play badly every week.  Can't wait for Haeg to get back because I don't think Clark is ready to be anybodies back up at right tackle.  That could improve later on in the season I suppose.  Still feel like we are fully capable of being a really good offense.  Just have to clean up how we are handling these blitz pressures.  Once the regular season starts and we are able to get Gore more than 4 carries I'm expecting the running game to improve.  Like that we have added Ridley as expected.

 

Secondary in my eyes should be much better with the starters.  Especially when we get Cromartie, Davis, and Robinson all out there together.  I'm expecting the 3,4, and 5th corners to be Smith, Mitchel, and Butler.  All we really know about is Butler, but I think Mitchel and Smith will be solid.  Green and Adams should start against Detroit with Geathers still on the mend.  Once Geathers gets back I think Green will play a vital role in helping us cover the Tight Ends.  I see quite a bit to be optimistic about when everything comes together with the injury situations.  Especially once we get Art Jones(saw him make a nice run stuff when I watched the game) Langford and Anderson back.  Saw some encouraging things from Ridgeway in that game as well.   I think we can be a really good team once we clean up a few key areas and guys get healthy.  

[Jdubu]

17 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I'll judge the running game when Gore plays more than a handful of snaps.

 

Like I said in another thread when you start two rookies on the oline, and a second year player who moved to a new position it's unrealistic to think there won't be growing pains.  That's before another one of their oline starters got hurt.  Also this this the same line people were praising just a week ago.  So, I while it might be something to be concerned about it doesn't deserve the over reaction it's getting tonight.

 

as for the the secondary the problems there are directly related to one of the very few things you can honestly take away from the pre-season, injuries.  The good news for the Colts is none in the secondary are season ending and none other than Davis is really that serious.  I'd expect everyone else other than maybe Geathers to be ready to go week one.

While I wont say I'm concerned about the team in general with its performance over the last couple years and then seen my them play this preseason, I can honestly say that anyone who expected us to come out and be dominant right away is sadly over expecting. We had a huge overhaul in the team structure from almost each area. New oline, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, special teams, dbacks, lb'ers, strength and conditioning, etc...  Add to that that we have changed from a power run scheme to a zbs on the oline and these are the pains we will see out of a team in transition. One can only hope that this team and staff are installing parts of their offense and defense to see what works and what doesn't and who is able to apply the new concepts of it vs who doesn't and be evaluated instead of worried about winning a preseason game. They will have to do something different with that oline protection they have been using but once we see the regular season games, we fans won't know exactly what type of team we have. I expect us to grow during the season and be better later. It could be interesting early on though. I honestly think after the big changes we've made, Irsay has given a little leash to improve this season and compete to win in next or there will be changes after 2018. I felt like there needed to be a reset this year and that draft was all about protecting Luck (even if it doesn't workout that way, that was the intention). I feel next year is the defensive side draft and it will be all about getting playmakers on defense. 

 

I I can only hope to see progress this year with the team. We have assembled a wealth of knowledge in the coaching ranks. I didn't know what to expect from the defensive coordinator when we got him and the jury is still out but I thought I'd see more fire out of him early on. I'm still positive on the teams outlook. 

[IinD]

Castonzo is one who's got me worried. The guy has looked terrible at times. 

Not good from our supposed top lineman.

[coltsfeva]

In the words of Aaron Rogers R-E-L-A-X. Tje O-line needs time to gel and without Mewhort for most of the night and Reitz, a disaster was imminent. 

On defense, the injuries caught up to us. Special teams were also horrendous.

 

To quote Tom Moore: "Football is a game of players and players make plays" No wonder the Colts looked bad last night with so many key players out.

 

This game was a good wake up call but that team we watched last night is not the team we will see for the rest of the year.....the glass is half full!

[RockThatBlue]

18 hours ago, krunk said:

Looks like Hugh Thornton will definitely still be on the team this year.  Not that it's a bad thing

Good point. Mewhorts injury might have saved Thorntons job. At least for a month or so.

[BOTT]

55 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

In the words of Aaron Rogers R-E-L-A-X. Tje O-line needs time to gel and without Mewhort for most of the night and Reitz, a disaster was imminent. 

On defense, the injuries caught up to us. Special teams were also horrendous.

 

To quote Tom Moore: "Football is a game of players and players make plays" No wonder the Colts looked bad last night with so many key players out.

 

This game was a good wake up call but that team we watched last night is not the team we will see for the rest of the year.....the glass is half full!

 

No offense, but can we stop the quoting of Aaron Rodgers? 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

20 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

My thoughts are that the Colts look horrible.  I'm sick of the listlessness of the Pagano era.  Luck has yet to throw a single touchdown pass in his 2 preseason appearances.  His dinking and dunking is not getting them into the endzone.  I thought this offense was supposed to be explosive?  Lol This team comes out lifeless far too often and it will likely continue because that has become the trend under Pagano.  Going to be another long season for us Colts fans. 

 

I hope you realize we were 0-4 in the preseason the year we went to the AFC Championship game and our team did not look good in preseason then, either.... not a good performance all around tonight, but we're very likely not showing much of what our actual offense will be like come regular season (at least in terms of Luck taking chances and moving the ball down field..... all indications from earlier this preseason are that the speedy WRs like Chud's offense because they expect to take some deep shots).  Our injuries are a concern, for sure -- and our line looked good against Baltimore and bad against Philly -- we've got some time to fix things before regular season starts.... let's just hope we get healthy.

[JColts72]

Mid season form with poor off. Line; no running game. If Luck lasts a whole year, that will be a general victory itself.

[BlueRedZone]

Yes the manning led teams did not play well in preseason. But didn't they at least score a TD?

 

Not throwing in the towel, but to say that I'm not discouraged is also a overstatement. 

 

This team will have to get a wild card to make playoffs unfortunately. 

[AZColt11]

Just now, BlueRedZone said:

Yes the manning led teams did not play well in preseason. But didn't they at least score a TD?

 

Not throwing in the towel, but to say that I'm not discouraged is also a overstatement. 

 

This team will have to get a wild card to make playoffs unfortunately. 

They didn't score many.  i seem to remember they settled for a lot of FG's too and people were worried way back then.

[bluebombers87]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

 

No offense, but can we stop the quoting of Aaron Rodgers? 

Perhaps a quote from Frankie is still acceptable to you?

 

"Frankie say relax"

[bluebombers87]

My take was that it wasn't a very good game but it wasn't much of a surprise. Philly has a very good defensive front, probably top ten by mid season. Our O-line has a lot of work to do but I'll take the approach that we have a lot of talent to offset (hopefully) our shortcomings. The one concern I'll echo is the play of Castonzo. The guy has to be better than what he's shown.

 

I know it's considered fairly faux pas to be optimistic in the pre-season by the cool kids but it's just boring to be negative.

[Johnny Bui]

Still don't know how Walden is still on the team, not even a pay cut.

[JPFolks]

10 hours ago, krunk said:

I watched the game this morning, but still would like to go back another time and rewatch when I can.  There was a lot of pressure mostly from Costanzo.  Kelly had a couple issues, and Clark sucked as we all figure he will early on. Good did alright to me outside of the false start and I think one play where I saw him get walked back a little bit by Taylor Hart into Lucks throwing lane.  I think we've gotten better at designing hot routes and screens for Luck to defeat the zero pressures.  I saw us defeat a number of them, but we are still not blocking them well.  Still feel like we will be okay with a full week of game planning versus how we approach these preseason games. Getting Reitz back will help and I'm really glad Mewhort is only out 2-4weeks and will not require surgery.  Don't feel like we will consistently see Kelly have a bad game so I don't have much concern there.  

 

I think there's some kind of issue with Costanzo going on that needs to be fixed ASAP, but I don't expect him to play badly every week.  Can't wait for Haeg to get back because I don't think Clark is ready to be anybodies back up at right tackle.  That could improve later on in the season I suppose.  Still feel like we are fully capable of being a really good offense.  Just have to clean up how we are handling these blitz pressures.  Once the regular season starts and we are able to get Gore more than 4 carries I'm expecting the running game to improve.  Like that we have added Ridley as expected.

 

Secondary in my eyes should be much better with the starters.  Especially when we get Cromartie, Davis, and Robinson all out there together.  I'm expecting the 3,4, and 5th corners to be Smith, Mitchel, and Butler.  All we really know about is Butler, but I think Mitchel and Smith will be solid.  Green and Adams should start against Detroit with Geathers still on the mend.  Once Geathers gets back I think Green will play a vital role in helping us cover the Tight Ends.  I see quite a bit to be optimistic about when everything comes together with the injury situations.  Especially once we get Art Jones(saw him make a nice run stuff when I watched the game) Langford and Anderson back.  Saw some encouraging things from Ridgeway in that game as well.   I think we can be a really good team once we clean up a few key areas and guys get healthy.  

That doesn't really conflict with what I saw.  I am not quite as optimistic overall because we really need to win early as our second half of the schedule is brutal so it's critical to be at least 6-2 the first half if we have sights on a great season, though reading this I just saw the Mewhort isn't gone for season? That's big big news and really changes a lot once he's back.  Of course it seems usually when the Colts say 2-4 weeks, it turns out to be 6-8 weeks, but let's hope for once their optimism is true.  

 

I think Castonzo is a serious problem.  Not sure how you fix him as you'd think it is a mental problem rather than health because it has carried over across last season until now.  Philbin has his work cut out.  

[tfunky14]

Give me a break people. You lose a pre-season game and just about everyone on here is giving up. Really, what a pathetic group of Colts fans we have on here.

I don't know how well or how bad we will do this season just as much as you but I'm going to wait till we actually play a meaningful games before I cast a judgement.

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Give me a break people. You lose a pre-season game and just about everyone on here is giving up. Really, what a pathetic group of Colts fans we have on here.

I don't know how well or how bad we will do this season just as much as you but I'm going to wait till we actually play a meaningful games before I cast a judgement.

 

FYI, I merged your post as there is already a reaction topic to the Eagles game. 

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Good point. Mewhorts injury might have saved Thorntons job. At least for a month or so.

Maybe, but with the way Good has looked in the preseason games, I figured Thornton would step in as the starter as soon as he returned.

 

I'm also guessing Haeg is the front runner to fill in for Mewhort but that is just speculation at the moment.

[Coffeedrinker]

One of the big takeaways from the game is just how important Anderson is to the D line.  With him in the game the focus switches to ANderson and Parry is able to beat a lot of one on one matches.  Without Henry (and Langford) the blocking focus switches to Parry and he is just overwhelmed, he cannot handle double teams very well at all.

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Maybe, but with the way Good has looked in the preseason games, I figured Thornton would step in as the starter as soon as he returned.

 

I'm also guessing Haeg is the front runner to fill in for Mewhort but that is just speculation at the moment.

Just don't agree with you about Good.   Do you still feel the same way about Clark?  That guy isn't ready to be anybodies back up right now

[krunk]

6 hours ago, JPFolks said:

That doesn't really conflict with what I saw.  I am not quite as optimistic overall because we really need to win early as our second half of the schedule is brutal so it's critical to be at least 6-2 the first half if we have sights on a great season, though reading this I just saw the Mewhort isn't gone for season? That's big big news and really changes a lot once he's back.  Of course it seems usually when the Colts say 2-4 weeks, it turns out to be 6-8 weeks, but let's hope for once their optimism is true.  

 

I think Castonzo is a serious problem.  Not sure how you fix him as you'd think it is a mental problem rather than health because it has carried over across last season until now.  Philbin has his work cut out.  

What you have said is logical to me.   I don't know what the hell Costanzos deal is but it needs to be fixed.   It couldn't have come at a worse time overall.  That guy needs to get his stuff together.  Problem is there's really no one to challenge him.  Maybe Haeg I guess but I don't think he's ready for that.

[Coffeedrinker]

What do you mean about Clark?  That I was impressed with him after the first game or were you on the chat during the game?

 

During the game, there were several people disagreeing with me about Clark because I was saying that game was one of the worst performances at RT that I have seen, he was either getting knocked off his feet or being pushed back like he was on ice.

 

So, no based on Saturday's game I would agree Clark is not ready to be a back-up.  Based on that performance, I'm not sure if he worth a spot on the 53 man roster.

 

On Good, he has not been good at all this preseason and his biggest problem is hand punch... he is very quick off the ball and into position but he does not get his hands up, so because of that the defenders always has leverage and just does whatever he wants to Good.  If he would get his hands locked on a guy and extend those arms he would be an effective blocker.

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

What do you mean about Clark?  That I was impressed with him after the first game or were you on the chat during the game?

 

During the game, there were several people disagreeing with me about Clark because I was saying that game was one of the worst performances at RT that I have seen, he was either getting knocked off his feet or being pushed back like he was on ice.

 

So, no based on Saturday's game I would agree Clark is not ready to be a back-up.  Based on that performance, I'm not sure if he worth a spot on the 53 man roster.

 

On Good, he has not been good at all this preseason and his biggest problem is hand punch... he is very quick off the ball and into position but he does not get his hands up, so because of that the defenders always has leverage and just does whatever he wants to Good.  If he would get his hands locked on a guy and extend those arms he would be an effective blocker.

Your write up after the Bills game was positive about Clark and I didn't see it then either unless I misread you.  The guy is not ready, but I do think in time he'll look better.  When you're speaking about Good are you talking about the run game or the passing game.  Haven't seen him beaten much other than on a blitz in the Bills game.  Maybe somewhere else.  What I think you are speaking about is technique and fundamental problems which can be fixed.  I've seen plays where he's done that.  Do we expect him to have it all together from the jump?  I don't believe so. 

 

I've seen him move people in the run game as well as hold his own in the passing game.  I agree with you on the technique and fundamental issues that need to be fixed, but again this guy is new to the position.  I don't think it's something where he needs to be snatched out as soon as Thornton returns.  Thornton has had years to get his stuff together.  Just my take on things.  We all have our own view though.

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Your write up after the Bills game was positive about Clark and I didn't see it then either unless I misread you.  The guy is not ready, but I do think in time he'll look better.  When you're speaking about Good are you talking about the run game or the passing game.  Haven't seen him beaten much other than on a blitz in the Bills game.  Maybe somewhere else.  What I think you are speaking about is technique and fundamental problems which can be fixed.  I've seen plays where he's done that.  Do we expect him to have it all together from the jump?  I don't believe so. 

 

I've seen him move people in the run game as well as hold his own in the passing game.  I agree with you on the technique and fundamental issues that need to be fixed, but again this guy is new to the position.  I don't think it's something where he needs to be snatched out as soon as Thornton returns.  Thornton has had years to get his stuff together.  Just my take on things.  We all have our own view though.

Like I said after the bills game I was impressed with Clark but I don't let that cloud my thinking when watching him in other games.

 

On Good, getting hands up is more than a technique thing unfortunately.  Hands up, arms extended is a basic olineman function... I'm teaching it to my 6th graders and they have been learning about hand punch for 3 years now.  Good has been up and down but he's had more down this preseason than up and in the Eagles game he was not much better than Clark.

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Like I said after the bills game I was impressed with Clark but I don't let that cloud my thinking when watching him in other games.

 

On Good, getting hands up is more than a technique thing unfortunately.  Hands up, arms extended is a basic olineman function... I'm teaching it to my 6th graders and they have been learning about hand punch for 3 years now.  Good has been up and down but he's had more down this preseason than up and in the Eagles game he was not much better than Clark.

Coffee I don't agree.  Good did not give up two sacks like Clark and Costanzo.  He didn't look like Kelly did either.  I think you're harping on things that can be fixed.  We never saw Good allow Fletcher Cox to slam into Luck like we saw with Clark.  We never saw Good bull rushed for sack like we saw with Kelly.  There's film of Good standing toe to toe with Fletcher Cox arms extended two hands on the guy and he stuffed him.  I don't see why you're leaning into the guy so hard when you know he's making a position switch. . 

[OffensivelyPC]

On 8/28/2016 at 0:05 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

We don't have our first string D-line.....    No Anderson, Jones or Langford.

 

And we don't have our top-SIX cornerbacks.       When does that ever happen?

 

Our o-line is a work in progress.

 

This is the same Chuck Pagano who led a team without Andrew Luck for half a season to an 8-8 record using their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th string QB's.

 

This is NOT a Chuck Pagano problem.

 

This is a talent shortage problem.     A game like this was to be expected.     It would've been a surprise if it didn't happen.

 

Nagano may not be great,   but the problems we had tonight are not about Chuck Pagano.

 

Not only that, but we're not really manufacturing pressure because at this point in the preseason, we're still simply running vanilla defenses.  Most of our pressures, like last year, will be because our DC creates pressure via scheme.  So I think it will get at least a little better once we start dialing in the more exotic stuff.

 

That said, I don't expect us to be in teh top half, could even possibly be bottom third, in terms of QB pressure.  We just don't really have the edge talent unless someone steps up out of nowhere or Mathis just plays out of his mind and gives us a 28 yr old version of himself, which I don't think anyone of us can count on.  We'll be OK, certainly better than the preseason indicates, but that's our best case scenario at this point, IMO.  

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Coffee I don't agree.  Good did not give up two sacks like Clark and Costanzo.  He didn't look like Kelly did either.  I think you're harping on things that can be fixed.  We never saw Good allow Fletcher Cox to slam into Luck like we saw with Clark.  We never saw Good bull rushed for sack like we saw with Kelly.  There's film of Good standing toe to toe with Fletcher Cox arms extended two hands on the guy and he stuffed him.  I don't see why you're leaning into the guy so hard when you know he's making a position switch. . 

A few things, I'm not harping on the guy, you asked a question and I'm telling you what I saw and if his issues were position on a guy or stepping off with the wrong foot then I'd agree, the issue in in large part due to a position switch but getting the arms up is not a position specific item.

 

As far as watching Good getting pushed back, I'd suggest you want the game again.  There were times when he was right next to Clark getting pushed to Luck.  There were times when he had his defender engaged and the defender just tossed him aside and made the tackle in the run game.

 

Also I'm a huge Good fan, I was a fan of his after his first preseason game last year.  But even though I'm a fan, I'm not going to sugar coat what I see nor will I see things through fan colored glasses.

 

As far as AC... he only gave up one sack, watch the first one again, he is riding his guy and Clark (chasing his defender) comes in and take out AC, AC falls to the ground because Clark just took out his legs and his guy gets the sack.  No matter what that sack is not on AC.  ACs problem is two fold, when he takes a huge kick step because the defender is further to the outside, he does not maintain his balance and he's slow to bring his right foot into position, so to compensate he he hopes with that right foot and when he does that the defender does a spin move to the inside.  The 2nd part of his problem is he lacks the upper body strength to slow the defender with his arm while he gets his feet in position.  The nice thing about ACs issues is it can be handled with scheme somewhat... when that defender starts going further and further out without a TE on that side, then the Colts need to run the ball between the guard and tackle, after a few of those the defender will come back in and line up on AC's outside shoulder where he can handle them.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

A few things, I'm not harping on the guy, you asked a question and I'm telling you what I saw and if his issues were position on a guy or stepping off with the wrong foot then I'd agree, the issue in in large part due to a position switch but getting the arms up is not a position specific item.

 

As far as watching Good getting pushed back, I'd suggest you want the game again.  There were times when he was right next to Clark getting pushed to Luck.  There were times when he had his defender engaged and the defender just tossed him aside and made the tackle in the run game.

 

Also I'm a huge Good fan, I was a fan of his after his first preseason game last year.  But even though I'm a fan, I'm not going to sugar coat what I see nor will I see things through fan colored glasses.

 

As far as AC... he only gave up one sack, watch the first one again, he is riding his guy and Clark (chasing his defender) comes in and take out AC, AC falls to the ground because Clark just took out his legs and his guy gets the sack.  No matter what that sack is not on AC.  ACs problem is two fold, when he takes a huge kick step because the defender is further to the outside, he does not maintain his balance and he's slow to bring his right foot into position, so to compensate he he hopes with that right foot and when he does that the defender does a spin move to the inside.  The 2nd part of his problem is he lacks the upper body strength to slow the defender with his arm while he gets his feet in position.  The nice thing about ACs issues is it can be handled with scheme somewhat... when that defender starts going further and further out without a TE on that side, then the Colts need to run the ball between the guard and tackle, after a few of those the defender will come back in and line up on AC's outside shoulder where he can handle them.

I've always respected you big bro so I'll watch again like I had plans to do anyway.  Still don't fully see it like you do, but that happens.  My question is have we ever seen this stuff out of Thornton?  The answer is yes.  Particularly when he was new to the league.  To me I've seen enough good to let the guy keep playing and grow in the position.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I've always respected you big bro so I'll watch again like I had plans to do anyway.  Still don't fully see it like you do, but that happens.  My question is have we ever seen this stuff out of Thornton?  The answer is yes.  Particularly when he was new to the league.

No, I never saw that kind of stuff from Thornton.  We would see mistakes but Thornton has one of the best/quickest hand punches in the game.  Thornton problems have always been conditioning and injuries.  When Thornton got tired he would quit moving his feet and lean and then get beat and then get injured.

 

I don't consider Good's issues you player mistakes because it's such a basic thing.  Just like if a RB fumbles the ball a lot, people don't excuse it from a rookie or 2nd year player they say he has a fumbling problem... because holding onto the ball is a basic responsibility of the RB that he has been taught from the moment he first took the ball from the QB.  Same thing with getting your hands up as a lineman... it's not a mistake it's a problem.

 

Now with Clark, if you want one positive from his performance is that he was just about always in the correct position... he just lacked any ability to do anything once he was there.  I have rarely seen an olineman be in a position and yet rarely even slow down the defender. 

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

No, I never saw that kind of stuff from Thornton.  We would see mistakes but Thornton has one of the best/quickest hand punches in the game.  Thornton problems have always been conditioning and injuries.  When Thornton got tired he would quit moving his feet and lean and then get beat and then get injured.

 

I don't consider Good's issues you player mistakes because it's such a basic thing.  Just like if a RB fumbles the ball a lot, people don't excuse it from a rookie or 2nd year player they say he has a fumbling problem... because holding onto the ball is a basic responsibility of the RB that he has been taught from the moment he first took the ball from the QB.  Same thing with getting your hands up as a lineman... it's not a mistake it's a problem.

 

Now with Clark, if you want one positive from his performance is that he was just about always in the correct position... he just lacked any ability to do anything once he was there.  I have rarely seen an olineman be in a position and yet rarely even slow down the defender. 

It's a problem that is so big it can't be fixed?  If it's such a basic thing then we should expect it can be fixed relatively soon.  And despite what you're saying there's been several good plays from him that say he can make the transition.   As bad as Clark has been I find it peculiar that you're able to find his good points and yet you haven't posted one thing Good has done well in any of his play.

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

What you have said is logical to me.   I don't know what the hell Costanzos deal is but it needs to be fixed.   It couldn't have come at a worse time overall.  That guy needs to get his stuff together.  Problem is there's really no one to challenge him.  Maybe Haeg I guess but I don't think he's ready for that.

I have a feeling that Haeg may get a look if he keeps flailing (Castonzo).  That doesn't mean Haeg wouldn't get smoked, as a rookie he should.  But he's really more mentally ready to do it than say Clark.  What we would likely see is them moving Reitz over to LT and then having Haeg and Clark share RT.  But let's hope it doesn't come to that.  Perhaps he'll get his head straight.  I am sure they are doing deep filmwork and footwork drills and a lot of one on one with Philbin to get him straight.  

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I have a feeling that Haeg may get a look if he keeps flailing (Castonzo).  That doesn't mean Haeg wouldn't get smoked, as a rookie he should.  But he's really more mentally ready to do it than say Clark.  What we would likely see is them moving Reitz over to LT and then having Haeg and Clark share RT.  But let's hope it doesn't come to that.  Perhaps he'll get his head straight.  I am sure they are doing deep filmwork and footwork drills and a lot of one on one with Philbin to get him straight.  

Thought about that scenario too.  Haeg is pretty sound in how he plays the position I'll say that.  Think he would do pretty well at RT for the most part.  Some growing pains here or there.   Hopefully Costanzo just cleans his act up so we don't have to go there.  I've always kind of felt Haeg was brought in to eventually replace Costanzo at some point in the next couple years.

[krunk]

18 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I have a feeling that Haeg may get a look if he keeps flailing (Castonzo).  That doesn't mean Haeg wouldn't get smoked, as a rookie he should.  But he's really more mentally ready to do it than say Clark.  What we would likely see is them moving Reitz over to LT and then having Haeg and Clark share RT.  But let's hope it doesn't come to that.  Perhaps he'll get his head straight.  I am sure they are doing deep filmwork and footwork drills and a lot of one on one with Philbin to get him straight.  

Just piggy backing again I agree with most of your take on the Texans.  Felt the whole offseason that they would be a challenge more so than the Jags and Titans.  Houston has successful systems in place on offense and defense along with an established D coordinator and a head coach who is an established offensive coordinator and quarterback coach.  They've got some good personnel in their front 7.  Their secondary has improved although I don't have much respect for Kareem Jackson and Jonathan Joseph.  The other corner Williams is a good player and their safeties are a little more athletic now.

 

Osweiler I've felt since last years preseason has grown as a quarterback.  I still need to see where things are at in the regular season this year.  I don't expect him to be a flop.  I'm not saying he'll be lights out, but I do expect he'll be better than Hoyer.   I think we can beat them IF we decide to get out of our own way with the usual stuff that has held us back.   It's not an automatic win if we don't.  Jacksonville on the other has added some talent, but I don't think it's significant enough.  There's still more that needs to be added to that roster defensively in terms of depth and pass rushers.   And they are still getting in their own way with sloppy play and penalties.  Bortles is still inconsistent but you can see some improvements.

[Old Colt]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:45 PM, 1959Colts said:

Dreadful Performance

Colts look soft, undisciplined, no urgency and in one more word....... sad!

[cdgacoltsfan]

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 10:33 PM, JPFolks said:

Uh... hmmmm.... sigh....

 

So most all of you saw or heard about it.  The bad stuff overwhelms anything positive.  But let's try to find a few positives shall we? (After all, everyone complains when I point out the negatives, so I'll dig as much positive out as I can before I cover the ugly truth this week).

 

Thank God for our receivers.  Moncrief and Hilton who made plays when it seemed no one else could (aside from Moncrief missing the audible at the Goal Line) and Dorsett whose penalty called back Turbin's run, but did have a good catch in the 3rd quarter.   They were really the only thing that left me any hope we weren't going to finish under ,500, though I would no longer be surprised if that happened.

 

Swoope also has looked good and catches the ball when it's catchable which few of us knew before this Pre-Season.  Limited info, but hey, we're looking for positives.

 

Our 2nd (Turbin) and our two 3rd team (Todman and Ferguson, whichever order they end up) RB's looked good.  I have no real opinion on Gore, because he's really not a PreSeason guy and he certainly had no blocking to gain any yards.  Turbin wasn't going against the best guys, but again, we're looking for positives.  Ferguson looked good in the screen game (which we are going to need badly this season) and Todman fought for the ball and scored on the PR team.

 

Tolzien looked decent in his back up role. It was Moncrief's fault more than Tolzien's on the Interception.  He wasn't amazing, but he moved the offense at least.

 

On Defense, it was hard to really assess much with so few true starters playing, but those who played were pretty listless.  There were some good Linebacker plays however, which is ironic because that seemed like one of our weakest areas (and I thought it went beyond just McNary's special team block). I had no expectations on the secondary, but our rookie FS is developing each week and outside of a scary head down tackle that looked potentially destructive to his neck/head (it was ugly, hopefully the penalty will make him think twice next time he want's to dip his head).  But I really think he'll be a decent player sooner than later.  There will be growing pains, but if he can stay healthy, perhaps we'll see a solid starter by the end of the year.

 

In general (without trying to cover them all) our deep backups and FA's that likely won't make the team, played with energy and passion that seemed devoid in the starters.  (ha, just after I typed this, I heard the TV announcers say the same thing, that they were playing with some electricity... I agree).

 

Lastly, I have been critical of Good so far this season.  He was the least horrible starting o-lineman tonight.  So there's that.

 

Okay.. that's really all the positives I saw, I dug as deep as I could.  As I type this we're down 33-10, so perhaps we're in for some amazing play at the end but it means nothing.

 

Now on to the sad reality.  We're not a good football team.  I was as hopeful as most, predicting 10-6 and a divisional appearance in the playoffs.  (or maybe more).  I would like to revise that to a massive struggle to win our division, with our only real hope of getting our injured players back and having a surprisingly good defense rather than hoping the offense can carry us.  It can't.

 

Let's start with the worst.   For those who thought Philbin would be a "lineman whisperer" I unfortunately am not on board with that thinking.  Our line actually looks worse than last year.  And it's not the right side I am talking about.  Mewhort, our best lineman in my opinion, has had a bad pre-season (and is now hurt on top of it).  The biggest disappointment is that from the moment he signed his big financial deal, Castonzo (by his own admission last season) is simply terrible.  I mean he can't do anything right.  He's going to get Luck injured again.  I am really hoping for a fast recovery by Haeg because we might see him taking over if Castonzo doesn't get it together.  Sure, Philly's D-Line is their strength, which is true for the entire line's performance, but dang, we were a train wreck across the line.  Kelly, who has been our preseason darling, got exposed badly.  As good as he's looked so far, he looked equally bad tonight.  Perhaps it will wake him up since he must have been thinking that the NFL isn't so hard.  Well, he was lit up, over and over.  Clark was nearly as bad as Castonzo, but come on, he's a rookie tackle, not a high paid Starting Left Tackle.  AsI saids above, Good looked Good only compared to his fellow linemates.  Not saying much and he couldn't do anything in the run the game.  The entire starting line was hopeless in that regard. The second team line, such as it was, was better against the Philly starters, but I didn't pay close enough attention in the early second half on the first look.  But it was clear, in a general sense, that they had more energy and cohesive play than the starters against the same players briefly early in the 3rd quarter.

 

Philbin.  He's made no noticeable improvements on existing players and so far has not gotten the line working.  No run game at all and multiple sacks and nearly constant contacts and pressures on the QB.  When Luck had a moment, he usually got the ball to Hilton or Moncrief.  But it was rare.

 

Luck really couldn't be evaluated as he was getting crushed.  There were several tips, including one that the announcers missed, that caused some bad looking throws, but he had no time and was either being contacted or surrounded with tremendous pressure all night.  I was THANKFUL that Pagano was smart enough (at least) to take Luck out and not let him back on the field.  Every crushing play I winced and worried about whether he'd be getting up or not.  It's hard to feel sorry for someone who just got PAID like he did, but damn, it's going to be a long, painful, ugly season as it stands.

 

The secondary is ravaged, so nothing to really say except that if Cromartie isn't well above average, we're going to be bludgeoned until Davis is back.  Let's hope he's got at least 8 games left in the tank as I fear it may be that long or longer before we see Davis.

 

Even our usually God like Punter looked mundane.  Sigh.

 

Gang, we won't see the starters again until live fire is flying in all directions.  I cringe to think what Von Miller is going to do to Luck week 2 or how many yards Stafford is going to put on us in week 1.  And I find little to indicate we're going to compete for the playoffs outside of Luck, Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett.  But even if we manage to somehow come out of our division (and with their collective upgrade, that seems impossible) we're not winning a playoff game with this team.

 

Unless, they are setting everyone up for lots of surprises and brilliant coaching.  But this is Pagano.  When have we seen more than game management out of him or his staff?

 

That's my thoughts.. what are yours?

 

 

OK thanks.. season is over...see you in 2017

[CoachLite]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

Coffee I don't agree.  Good did not give up two sacks like Clark and Costanzo.  He didn't look like Kelly did either.  I think you're harping on things that can be fixed.  We never saw Good allow Fletcher Cox to slam into Luck like we saw with Clark.  We never saw Good bull rushed for sack like we saw with Kelly.  There's film of Good standing toe to toe with Fletcher Cox arms extended two hands on the guy and he stuffed him.  I don't see why you're leaning into the guy so hard when you know he's making a position switch. . 

Each position on the O-line requires very different skills. This idea that there are versatile plug-and-play players for the O-line is just plain wrong. Good, playing RG, is in a very different position this year from RT. Technique is everything, and that will take time. I'm not sure we give time to players at position or demand enough on technique.during practice. I suppose the same will hold for Haeg and Clark. Too much churning at position.

 

I disagree that we don't have sufficient player talent. I think we do. Are they under-performing and not playing well as a team - obviously. The problem is not an Xs and Os problem, it is deeper and more subtle than that. It seems to be from a culture of confusion. Once the ball is snapped, there isn't enough time to "think" your way out of our structural problems. The right patterns should have been 'burned in' during practice. Now I'm afraid we will just get 'burned'. BTW, this may have something to do with all our injuries, too.