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Why would an owner entrust Luck's Prime to Chuck Pagano


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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree. I don't understand the "we haven't won" part. Unless he is talking about winning a SB? I don't think there is a Colts fan alive that expected Luck to lead the Colts to a SB win in 4 seasons when we practically did a major re-build coming off the Peyton era. We have won and have won a lot actually in the Pagano/Grigs era. In 4 years we are 41-23 in the Regular Season and have already been to a Championship Game. Numbers don't lie.

Chuck isn't the best coach in the league, sure. But you cannot seperate a coach from his record. And Chuck's is very good. Glad i'm not alone here.

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It seems we've not been able to shake that whole inconsistency gimmick. We've picked it right back up where we left it off last year.

Even Pagano seems bewildered for answers at this point. His presser after the game was not at all typical of him.

This team right now is as unpredictable as any team I can ever remember. Will we go 13-3 and make a deep playoff run? Probably. Will we go 3-13 and stink out the joint all year? Probably. Will we go 8-8 and struggle against and lose to teams we shouldn't and look great against and beat teams we shouldn't? Probably.

We're literally the football version of a roulette wheel.

*

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8 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Luck is good but has been over rated by many.   The team around him is mediocre.  Luck won't be able to carry them because he still has holes in his own game that he has yet to overcome.  This isn't the Peyton era Colts anymore...where a great quarterback lifted an average team to the cusp of greatness.  This is a mediocre lot with a good yet still flawed young and banged up franchise QB.  All of the team's injuries aren't helping matters either. No O line and no running game with a sieve for a defense. Griggs has given Luck little help. Hope Andrew can stay healthy this year. He will take a lot of hits.  

Lol....Luck has carried mediocre teams to playoff wins already.  Much faster than Peyton ever did.

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1 hour ago, backshoulderfade said:

Chuck isn't the best coach in the league, sure. But you cannot seperate a coach from his record. And Chuck's is very good. Glad i'm not alone here.

 

Barry Switzer 40-24, 5-2 in playoffs and one Super Bowl ring.

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16 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

Barry Switzer 40-24, 5-2 in playoffs and one Super Bowl ring.

That was actually Jimmy Johnson's team. Jimmy built that team before Barry got there. Those Cowboys teams are arguably the greatest teams of all-time as well. Barry got handed the keys to a Ferrari. His last season in Dallas he was 6-10. I am not a huge fan of Chuck but I think he is a Good Coach, far from Great though unfortunately. I would've preferred Harbaugh but I knew he wasn't leaving Michigan after 1 season.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That was actually Jimmy Johnson's team. Jimmy built that team before Barry got there. Those Cowboys teams are arguably the greatest teams of all-time as well. Barry got handed the keys to a Ferrari. His last in Dallas he was 6-10. I am not a huge fan of Chuck but I think he is a Good Coach, far from Great though unfortunately. I would've preferred Harbaugh but I knew he wasn't leaving Michigan after 1 season.

I realize who built the team.  It still doesn't change the fact the Barry has an Impressive record.  

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is true, I guess at least he didn't mess it up and won a SB because winning a SB is never automatic no matter what kind of team you have.

Don't get me wrong, Switzer was a poor NFL coach.

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5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree. I don't understand the "we haven't won" part. Unless he is talking about winning a SB? I don't think there is a Colts fan alive that expected Luck to lead the Colts to a SB win in 4 seasons when we practically did a major re-build coming off the Peyton era. We have won and have won a lot actually in the Pagano/Grigs era. In 4 years we are 41-23 in the Regular Season and have already been to a Championship Game. Numbers don't lie.

That is what I am talking about and if we had drafted worth a crap and had worth a crap coaching I think we very well could have won a superbowl by now.

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Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

That is what I am talking about and if we had drafted worth a crap and had worth a crap coaching I think we very well could have won a superbowl by now.

I thought you were and I will agree going into year 5 we should have a better team around Luck but I thought it would take more than 4 years to even get to the SB (not even winning 1) anyway. I think Luck had so much success early on that it kind of spoiled us. When we drafted Luck I didn't think we would have a winning season until his 3rd season coming off a rebuild (2-14) and losing Peyton. Then we go 11-5 in his rookie season, so the bar was set high quickly. So far out of the young Good to Great QB's = 5 years in or less, only Wilson has won a SB, Cam got to 1 but lost playing terribly. We probably would've made the SB in 2014 had we played anyone other than NE because we always have been able to beat Broncos and Ravens. Colts actually won in Denver leading up to the Championship Game in 2014.

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1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Lol....Luck has carried mediocre teams to playoff wins already.  Much faster than Peyton ever did.

True...he had a faster start but his prospects going forward don't look as promising for ultimately winning that ring...which Peyton was able to finally deliver to us.  He has inferior team talent, coaching and management than Peyton did and hasn't shown the mental acumen that 18 did to overcome his and the organization's deficiencies to date.  And each year they made the playoffs under Luck they have had the breaks beat off of them in the playoffs.  This team has made and even won in the playoffs but they are still far from the Super Bowl.  The AFC Championship demolition at the hands of New England was proof enough of that.  But this isn't about Peyton vs Luck...at least for me.  It's about Luck's actual level of talent vs his perceived potential and the mediocre mess of an organization that is around him at present.  Right now it's not enough to deliver this defenseless mess to the promised land (read Lombardi)...in my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, backshoulderfade said:

Chuck isn't the best coach in the league, sure. But you cannot seperate a coach from his record. And Chuck's is very good. Glad i'm not alone here.

Chuck's RECORD has BENEFITTED greatly from the nine wins two time coach of the year Bruce A provided in Chuck's rookie season as hc due to his battle with cancer and having Luck as his qb dominate the WORST division in football the last few years thus earning the playoff berths. Chuck is not an X's and O's type of coach as far as going with your team's STRENGTHS to ATTACK another team's WEAKNESS nor will he CARRY or PLAY the best available at times seems more of a loyalty type with the players BUT that will not help against the big boys!! I will give him this he's a good TALKER but with the division getting better this season Chuck will be exposed as a subpar hc in over his head....

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44 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

True...he had a faster start but his prospects going forward don't look as promising for ultimately winning that ring...which Peyton was able to finally deliver to us.  He has inferior team talent, coaching and management than Peyton did and hasn't shown the mental acumen that 18 did to overcome his and the organization's deficiencies to date.  And each year they made the playoffs under Luck they have had the breaks beat off of them in the playoffs.  This team has made and even won in the playoffs but they are still far from the Super Bowl.  The AFC Championship demolition at the hands of New England was proof enough of that.  But this isn't about Peyton vs Luck...at least for me.  It's about Luck's actual level of talent vs his perceived potential and the mediocre mess of an organization that is around him at present.  Right now it's not enough to deliver this defenseless mess to the promised land (read Lombardi)...in my opinion. 

He doesn't have the mental acumen like Peyton to overcome an inferior talent, coaching and front office. Lol, yet he has.  Peyton had a great front office and excellent coaching and it still took him how many yrs to win a playoff game?

 

had the breaks beat off of them in the playoffs?  They lost to teams with superior talent and two of those team s were SB champions.  Peyton and company were going scoreless against the mighty jets 41-0.

 

but believe what you want, you usually do

 

 

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9 minutes ago, BOTT said:

He doesn't have the mental acumen like Peyton to overcome an inferior talent, coaching and front office. Lol, yet he has.  Peyton had a great front office and excellent coaching and it still took him how many yrs to win a playoff game?

 

had the breaks beat off of them in the playoffs?  They lost to teams with superior talent and two of those team s were SB champions.  Peyton and company were going scoreless against the mighty jets 41-0.

 

but believe what you want, you usually do

 

 

My criticisms of Luck tend to stick in your craw it seems.  Lol. I could care less about Peyton vs Luck debates personally.  It's about the team for me.  If Luck's skills decline and they push him out for the next best thing it wouldn't phase me so long as the Shoe prospers from it.  I was fine when it happened to Peyton as well.  

 

That said Luck needs to get a ring.  He is being paid as the highest QB in the game and that is the expectation that comes with that.  I am starting to have my doubts that he has what it will take to get us another ring given his actual vs perceived talent and the crap talent & coaching around him.  Time will ultimately tell.

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Just now, Coltsman1788 said:

My criticisms of Luck tend to stick in your craw it seems.  Lol. I could care less about Peyton vs Luck debates personally.  It's about the team for me.  If Luck's skills decline and they push him out for the next best thing it wouldn't phase me so long as the Shoe prospers from it.  I was fine when it happened to Peyton as well.  

 

That said Luck needs to get a ring.  He is being paid as the highest QB in the game and that is the expectation that comes with that.  I am starting to have my doubts that he has what it will take to get us another ring given his actual vs perceived talent and the crap talent & coaching around him.  Time will ultimately tell.

 

It sticks in my crawl because they don't make sense.

 

if you don't care about Peyton vs Luck then don't do the comparison.

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2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

It sticks in my crawl because they don't make sense.

 

if you don't care about Peyton vs Luck then don't do the comparison.

Why shouldn't I?  It's natural to compare them.  I don't care who ultimately comes out on the better end of it is what I mean. But they will be compared. It's inevitable.  At the end of the day Peyton has his ring and Luck has his to get. With that type of money come the pressures of delivering the prize.  At this point I am not feeling very confident he will be able to deliver for reasons not entirely his fault.  Yet he needs to figure out how to get it done...regardless.  

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2 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Why shouldn't I?  It's natural to compare them.  I don't care who ultimately comes out on the better end of it is what I mean. But they will be compared. It's inevitable.  At the end of the day Peyton has his ring and Luck has his to get. With that type of money come the pressures of delivering the prize.  At this point I am not feeling very confident he will be able to deliver for reasons not entirely his fault.  Yet he needs to figure out how to get it done...regardless.  

Then do it fairly.

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3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Then do it fairly.

What's fair to you isn't necessarily what's fair to me.  I acknowledged Luck's crutches of a weak team, poor coaching and mediocre front office already.  I acknowledged that he has won in the playoffs faster.  I also am not sure that I believe in him as much as I did in Peyton to lead us to the promised land.   Luck is more physically gifted than Peyton but cerebrally they aren't in the same league. Luck has much more to overcome and less help to do it.  I don't care as much about winning a few playoff games. What I judge QB's by primarily are rings delivered.  Particularly when they are as hyped up and as highly paid as Andrew is. The jury is still out on him for me.  That's the end of this for me in this thread.  

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7 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

What's fair to you isn't necessarily what's fair to me.  I acknowledged Luck's crutches of a weak team, poor coaching and mediocre front office already.  I acknowledged that he has won in the playoffs faster.  I also am not sure that I believe in him as much as I did in Peyton to lead us to the promised land.   Luck is more physically gifted than Peyton but cerebrally they aren't in the same league. Luck has much more to overcome and less help to do it.  I don't care as much about winning a few playoff games. What I judge QB's by primarily are rings delivered.  Particularly when they are as hyped up and as highly paid as Andrew is. The jury is still out on him for me.  That's the end of this for me in this thread.  

I would walk away too if I were you.

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14 hours ago, Iancolts said:

I understand this is preseason but if that's how our first unit performs then we will have major problems.  How do we get setback so far from 2 seasons ago?  What went wrong and why can't grigs and pag fix the issues?  

 

Luck went 8-8 last week. The offense needs to find its groove with the new system. Jeez guys. I think that just because we didn't do that well this game, doesn't mean that we are 0-1 in the regular season. The colts go 1-3 regularly in the preseason, and I have seen some pretty bad preseason games. 

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This is dental work! Can't stand the pain of the same ol stuff, excuses, no actions and not enough physicality shown by the inept colts.  This all contribute to coaching, i realized most of you are saying give them time, they're young give them time.  They've had enough ample time to turn this around.  Grigson has to take the blunt of the blame, not drafting key players, not trading to get quality defense and not being able to identify talent.  SAD but true.  Until you get a decent GM and a coach(s) that knows the game and hold players accountable, we'll never get to the Super Bowl.  Just too much talk, being politically correct not kicking butts out there will hold this organization back.  Again, Get a new GM and a new coach you may turn this team around yet before it's too late.  You're going to get a high draft pick in 2017 anyway so get someone who can identify talent. So, frustrating!!! 

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12 hours ago, Ratking said:

Preach it brother!!!!! I been watching every colts game religiously for years. Same problems year in and year out. Chuck ain't fixing any problems. This is the first year i just snapped. I can't spew the same pro colts line like I did the last 3 years. The colts aren't getting better as a team. They are holding Luck back and his prime is being wasted. And its sad.  

Agreed!

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Chuck is a good man I am sure and gives some of the best locker room speeches in my opinion.  He has won on the field but far too often his teams appear unprepared, unfocused and get flat blown out.  The team also makes too many mental mistakes and penalties.  At times his teams have shown some "grit" but far too often they have exhibited an overall physical softness.  Can't run the ball...can't stop good offenses.  We aren't in the same league as the Patriots and Steelers who should be our biggest rivals.  We have been little more than a speed bump to them in the Pagano/Luck/Griggson era.  That doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon. There is reason to be concerned. 

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The season hasn't even started and people - including our own fans - are already writing us off like we're gunning for the #1 overall pick (which I think it San Fran's to lose).  Yes, there have been a lot of injuries, but the season hasn't even started yet.  As long as we keep Luck upright and healthy, which admittedly may be more difficult (though not impossible) without Mewhort, we have a chance.

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Preseason or no preseason you're record reflect the efforts from all the mini training, OTAs, training camp and should show noticeable improvement.  If you need more proof, we just got beat by a team who had just hire a new Head Coach a few months ago.  What's worse is they're undefeated this preseason!!!.  Irsay deserve this mediocre team, he hired these Bozos.  

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought you were and I will agree going into year 5 we should have a better team around Luck but I thought it would take more than 4 years to even get to the SB (not even winning 1) anyway. I think Luck had so much success early on that it kind of spoiled us. When we drafted Luck I didn't think we would have a winning season until his 3rd season coming off a rebuild (2-14) and losing Peyton. Then we go 11-5 in his rookie season, so the bar was set high quickly. So far out of the young Good to Great QB's = 5 years in or less, only Wilson has won a SB, Cam got to 1 but lost playing terribly. We probably would've made the SB in 2014 had we played anyone other than NE because we always have been able to beat Broncos and Ravens. Colts actually won in Denver leading up to the Championship Game in 2014.

 

But a lot of Luck's success was due to the poor division he played in and often he had to have miracle comebacks in those division games.  I believe Luck is at or below .500 outside of the division.  I believe we drew favorable match ups in the playoffs.  KC and Cincy are have been historically poor in the postseason and we played a severely limited Manning only to be mowed down by NE.  

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