Candidates for trade before cuts

[SevaColt]

In 2013 Caesar Rayford had an outstanding preseason and was traded to Dallas for 2014 7th round pick.

In 2014 Marcus Burley was traded  to Seattle for 2015 6th round.

So the Question is , who do you think is a candidate for trade before cuts. I've got Chester Brown 4th 5th receiver STs return man. LBs Curt Maggitt, Ron Thompson, or Trevor Bates. They all seem somewhat equal and unknown.

[CR91]

Sterling Bailey. Not really getting much attention, but he's having a good preseason so far

[jameszeigler834]

12 minutes ago, SevaColt said:

In 2013 Caesar Rayford had an outstanding preseason and was traded to Dallas for 2014 7th round pick.

In 2014 Marcus Burley was traded  to Seattle for 2015 6th round.

So the Question is , who do you think is a candidate for trade before cuts. I've got Chester Brown 4th 5th receiver STs return man. LBs Curt Maggitt, Ron Thompson, or Trevor Bates. They all seem somewhat equal and unknown.

No trades we need all of the help we can get.

[akcolt]

If we could get something for Maggitt I'd do that today. He's never been healthy not sure how the NFL changes that. I'm guessing you mean Chester Rogers not Brown. If it was a guy that we don't have making the 53 man take the pick. You won't get him to the PS if teams are offering draft picks. Some how I don't think that is going to be the case. 

[SevaColt]

The point is aren't you better off trading for future low round picks then cutting. There's little chance  LBs Curt Maggitt, Ron Thompson, or Trevor Bates all make the 53.

[Archer]

There's this on Junior Sylvestre:

 

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/8/17/12517334/lions-may-trade-for-junior-sylvestre

 

I loved him coming into TC, but he hasn't been heard from since.  I don't think he'll make our roster...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I'm curious to see if they pull the trigger and try to get another CB vis trade. We can't seriously be thinking about trotting Antonio Cromartie and Patrick Robinson out there week 1 as our starting CB tandem, can we?

[akcolt]

9 minutes ago, SevaColt said:

The point is aren't you better off trading for future low round picks then cutting. There's little chance  LBs Curt Maggitt, Ron Thompson, or Trevor Bates all make the 53.

You know we have the PS too right? Seeing 2/3 players are UDFA's the PS would be considered a win. I don't think you are getting a low round pick for those guys together in a package with bows and ribbons. By low you mean like 1/2 where high would be 6/7 Correct?  

[akcolt]

8 minutes ago, Archer said:

There's this on Junior Sylvestre:

 

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/8/17/12517334/lions-may-trade-for-junior-sylvestre

 

I loved him coming into TC, but he hasn't been heard from since.  I don't think he'll make our roster...

Me too he was my guy after last preseason I was expecting to see him flying all over the field again He'd added weight heck I was wandering if we give him a look off the edge. it be nice to get a 6/7 for  him  He is probably the biggest canp surpise for me unfortunately its a negative one. I liked him out of Toledo reallly surprised 

[SevaColt]

I'm saying this appears to be another year we have expendable backups that can return future 6th 7th round picks. There's no guarantee once cut that they return to our PS.

[Everyone]

They definitely can't groom young pass rushers if they just trade them away.....

[Bluefire4]

The only guy I think is tradable due to their play in the preseason is TY Mcgill and Lord knows we need him. We'll keep the people we want on the PS if they don't make the team.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

We should have kept Werner, I'm sure that we could have gotten a 3rd round pick for him! 

 

 

 

 

 

... Or maybe not.

[krunk]

If Grigson trades away McGill I will be really angry.....Doubt this would ever happen though with our need for interior pass rushers.

[Indyfan4life]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

I'm curious to see if they pull the trigger and try to get another CB vis trade. We can't seriously be thinking about trotting Antonio Cromartie and Patrick Robinson out there week 1 as our starting CB tandem, can we?

Yes, and we'll have to accept it. If Cromartie was truly injured last season, then I'm fine with him starting if he returns to his former level of play. If this happens, then we'll be okay. Robinson is way better than Toler was, and when Vontae does come back, we'll be in amazing shape for our secondary. 

 

Have faith. 

[Hoosiernsavga]

1 hour ago, Mr Clueless said:

We should have kept Werner, I'm sure that we could have gotten a 3rd round pick for him! 

 

 

 

 

 

... Or maybe not.

Speaking of Werner is he on a roster anywhere???

[HOZER]

9 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

Speaking of Werner is he on a roster anywhere???

Jacksonville.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

Yes, and we'll have to accept it. If Cromartie was truly injured last season, then I'm fine with him starting if he returns to his former level of play. If this happens, then we'll be okay. Robinson is way better than Toler was, and when Vontae does come back, we'll be in amazing shape for our secondary. 

 

Have faith. 

The secondary could be something special when Vontae returns, assuming he doesn't miss more than the one month, AND he's full-go right out of the gate. If he's out much longer than that, and he's slow to get back into his groove, it may be too little too late.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Jacksonville.

And when I watched the Jacksonville game Werner was still on the field late in the 4th quarter.  He's probably going to get the Axe.  I don't think Tyrone Holmes is going to make their 53, but he looked plenty fast to me. Probably will be on the PS if he's not claimed.   Not sure what's going on, most of their fans like Ngakoue quite a bit though.

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

I'm curious to see if they pull the trigger and try to get another CB vis trade. We can't seriously be thinking about trotting Antonio Cromartie and Patrick Robinson out there week 1 as our starting CB tandem, can we?

We seemed to do fine without vontae in the past,  with a starting tandem of Cassius Vaughn and Darius Butler for a 3 game stretch in 2012. Are you implying that you are less confident in Cromartie and Robinson then Vaughn and Butler??  

[throwing BBZ]

14 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

We seemed to do fine without vontae in the past,  with a starting tandem of Cassius Vaughn and Darius Butler for a 3 game stretch in 2012. Are you implying that you are less confident in Cromartie and Robinson then Vaughn and Butler??  

 

 Please share with us who the opponents were and who were their QB`s. LMAO!

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

Yes, and we'll have to accept it. If Cromartie was truly injured last season, then I'm fine with him starting if he returns to his former level of play. If this happens, then we'll be okay. Robinson is way better than Toler was, and when Vontae does come back, we'll be in amazing shape for our secondary. 

 

Have faith. 

Robinson is not way better than Toler.   He is better in the slot than Butler but not on the outside    He and Toler are about equal IMO 

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Please share with us who the opponents were and who were their QB`s. LMAO!

Brady was one of them. So right there they were up against better competition then Bortles and rivers.... The other ones. admittedly,  were Buffalo and Jacksonville.  That being said we also did fine against green bay that year without vontae, starting Cassius Vaughn and jerod powers, not exactly an all pro lineup either, but still better then Vaughn and Butler.  

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

The only guy I think is tradable due to their play in the preseason is TY Mcgill and Lord knows we need him. We'll keep the people we want on the PS if they don't make the team.

The pass rushers better be staying we have old washed up players starting to go with just those guys we are screwed.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

We seemed to do fine without vontae in the past,  with a starting tandem of Cassius Vaughn and Darius Butler for a 3 game stretch in 2012. Are you implying that you are less confident in Cromartie and Robinson then Vaughn and Butler??  

 

We've been without Vonte before.....   and typically the Colts do not do well.      Not well at all.

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We've been without Vonte before.....   and typically the Colts do not do well.      Not well at all.

 

The six games we were without him in 2012 we gave up an average of 243 yds a game. That is less then our per game average for 2015 (257 ypg). Is it good? Absolutely not. But it's not as bad as people seem to think. The players we have now are much better then the Ragtag group we had in 2012. I'm confident we can survive at cb if our other players are ready for week 1. In no way am I advocating that we are going to be well off with our pass defense, but we will survive. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

The six games we were without him in 2012 we gave up an average of 243 yds a game. That is less then our per game average for 2015 (257 ypg). Is it good? Absolutely not. But it's not as bad as people seem to think. The players we have now are much better then the Ragtag group we had in 2012. I'm confident we can survive at cb if our other players are ready for week 1. In no way am I advocating that we are going to be well off with our pass defense, but we will survive. 

 

The Colts have the oldest defense in football this year, with SIX players who start age 30 or older.

 

That's not a recipe for success.

 

And now Vonte is out?         Don't count on what happened FOUR years ago happening again.

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

33 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Colts have the oldest defense in football this year, with SIX players who start age 30 or older.

 

That's not a recipe for success.

 

And now Vonte is out?         Don't count on what happened FOUR years ago happening again.

 

Im only arguing against what you said, which was that without vontae we have PROVEN to have been bad. That was the only prolonged time we have ever been without him. 

So why is vontae being being out four years ago relevant and then all of a sudden irrelevant when it is shown they survived without him? 

 

I get the defense has issues, but they are not issues that Vontae Davis will fix. Vontae Davis doesn't make all those old players younger. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our depth issues. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our pass rush. He is a slight boon to our pass defense, which has already been improved over last year. I'm not happy to see him hurt and i do think we will miss him out there, but I don't think all these knee Jerk "the sky is falling" posts are really warranted. At least give it a few games before we declare this a lost season. 

[DougDew]

We need all of the defensive help we can get, all of the OL depth we can get, and all of the WR depth too.  But, not all of the good young guys will be able to fit on the 53 man roster, despite how good they are.

 

I'm thinking one of the UDFA WRs could be trade bait.

[Happy2BeHere]

5 hours ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Jacksonville.

 

He asked if he was on a roster somewhere, well I guess Jacksonville technically has a roster

[Happy2BeHere]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Im only arguing against what you said, which was that without vontae we have PROVEN to have been bad. That was the only prolonged time we have ever been without him. 

So why is vontae being being out four years ago relevant and then all of a sudden irrelevant when it is shown they survived without him? 

 

I get the defense has issues, but they are not issues that Vontae Davis will fix. Vontae Davis doesn't make all those old players younger. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our depth issues. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our pass rush. He is a slight boon to our pass defense, which has already been improved over last year. I'm not happy to see him hurt and i do think we will miss him out there, but I don't think all these knee Jerk "the sky is falling" posts are really warranted. At least give it a few games before we declare this a lost season. 

 

It has been a a few games now...the sky is falling we are doomed oh my oh my we are toilet water now...it's over it's over  

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We've been without Vonte before.....   and typically the Colts do not do well.      Not well at all.

 

Pittsburg comes to mind quickly 

[aaron11]

4 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 Are you implying that you are less confident in Cromartie and Robinson then Vaughn and Butler??  

yeah i would feel better with 2012 vaughn and butler than 2016 cromatie and robinson

 

cromartie had a good career, but he was terrible last year and is now a 32 year old corner.  history has not been kind to 32 year old corners, and AC has an extensive injury history

 

butler was a solid player early in his career but he has gotten worse each of the past few years

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Im only arguing against what you said, which was that without vontae we have PROVEN to have been bad. That was the only prolonged time we have ever been without him. 

So why is vontae being being out four years ago relevant and then all of a sudden irrelevant when it is shown they survived without him? 

 

I get the defense has issues, but they are not issues that Vontae Davis will fix. Vontae Davis doesn't make all those old players younger. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our depth issues. Vontae Davis doesn't fix our pass rush. He is a slight boon to our pass defense, which has already been improved over last year. I'm not happy to see him hurt and i do think we will miss him out there, but I don't think all these knee Jerk "the sky is falling" posts are really warranted. At least give it a few games before we declare this a lost season. 

 

Vonte missed a number of games back in 2012.

 

According to the Colts.com website he has only missed ONE game in the past THREE years.     That doesn't seem right to me,   but that's what it says.

 

So,  my instincts tell me that Vonte has played when he's been hurt and played very poorly.    And that's in a more recent time frame.     For example,  he started the game vs. the Steelers and then went out roughly a 1/4 into the game with an injury.       Roethlisberger threw for nearly 600 yards in that game.       Vonte also had a poor first half last year because he played far below 100% and the Colts defense got eaten up pretty good.

He may not have missed games over the last three years,   but when Vonte is playing when he probably shouldn't,  the Colts defense has done poorly.     And you know that true.

 

I haven't declared anything a lost season.   And I don't think the sky is falling.    But I noted months ago that our defense is very suspect because of age.     And that we only really have two legit play makers....   Vonte and Robert Mathis.       Now Vonte is expected to miss about a month and Mathis will not play a single snap of the pre-season.       We are on thin ice defensively.     If we get through the first month it will not be without a good deal of luck.....

 

[aaron11]

24 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

 

It has been a a few games now...the sky is falling we are doomed oh my oh my we are toilet water now...it's over it's over  

sure everyone said that at the beginning of the season last year...

 

then it turned out to be warranted.  we looked ugly in most of our games except maybe for denver and atlanta and missed the playoffs

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Vonte missed a number of games back in 2012.

 

According to the Colts.com website he has only missed ONE game in the past THREE years.     That doesn't seem right to me,   but that's what it says.

 

So,  my instincts tell me that Vonte has played when he's been hurt and played very poorly.    And that's in a more recent time frame.     For example,  he started the game vs. the Steelers and then went out roughly a 1/4 into the game with an injury.       Roethlisberger threw for nearly 600 yards in that game.       Vonte also had a poor first half last year because he played far below 100% and the Colts defense got eaten up pretty good.

He may not have missed games over the last three years,   but when Vonte is playing when he probably shouldn't,  the Colts defense has done poorly.     And you know that true.

 

I haven't declared anything a lost season.   And I don't think the sky is falling.    But I noted months ago that our defense is very suspect because of age.     And that we only really have two legit play makers....   Vonte and Robert Mathis.       Now Vonte is expected to miss about a month and Mathis will not play a single snap of the pre-season.       We are on thin ice defensively.     If we get through the first month it will not be without a good deal of luck.....

 

I agree with this. Although I think the games that we did bad with vontae hurt and playing could potentially be attributed to him actually not playing well. It doesn't matter how good you are if you are hurt and hobbling around. I also think that we have better options behind vontae now. I'm not sold on AC but there is potential there. Robinson has been an interesting player and it's hard to know if last year was a blip in the radar or if it was him finally figuring out how to play in the big leagues. I choose to be optimistic until I am proven otherwise. Like I said I think we will notice the loss of Davis, but I think we can handle the opponents we have, especially if our offense comes together.  We have won lots of games without a defense before. I have no reason to believe we can't do it again. 

 

And like you, I originally looked up vontaes injury history because I was interested to see how screwed we were. Finding out he had missed one game in the last three years was a surprise to me as well. Felt like he was gone a lot more, but like you my thoughts were that he was playing hurt a lot. 

 

And i wasn't so much speaking towards you when I talked about the sky is falling posts. It's the people who say we will go 0-4 simply because we don't have one of our CBs. I get that he's good, but he's not the difference between 3-1 and 0-4. I think with our opponents for the first few weeks we should be able to at least play them close,  if not win most of them. People are talking like we are playing top Teams. We aren't. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

25 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

yeah i would feel better with 2012 vaughn and butler than 2016 cromatie and robinson

 

cromartie had a good career, but he was terrible last year and is now a 32 year old corner.  history has not been kind to 32 year old corners, and AC has an extensive injury history

 

butler was a solid player early in his career but he has gotten worse each of the past few years

Butler was anything but solid when he came to us. He was a player the Patriots dropped despite having no depth and issues at cb. He then went to Carolina where he was similarly dropped a year later.That doesn't exactly say world class to me.  He had a few good years for us, but only in the slot. He has been a liability his whole tenure here when asked to play on the outside. 

I like Butler and everything he has done for us. But he is what he is. 

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Butler was anything but solid when he came to us. He was a player the Patriots dropped despite having no depth and issues at cb. He then went to Carolina where he was similarly dropped a year later.That doesn't exactly say world class to me.  He had a few good years for us, but only in the slot. He has been a liability his whole tenure here when asked to play on the outside. 

I like Butler and everything he has done for us. But he is what he is. 

didnt watch him in new england or carolina but he was pretty good here in 2012

 

he played in 11 games, had 4 ints, 2 touchdowns and won a defensive player of the week award

[SaturdayAllDay]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

didnt watch him in new england or carolina but he was pretty good here in 2012

 

he played in 11 games, had 4 ints, 2 touchdowns and won a defensive player of the week award

I agree he was good for us, especially in 2012-2013. But he wasn't asked to play outside for most of that. Only three of those games werent played in the slot. He played well considering his less then stellar record at the time, but I wouldn't have wanted to start him outside unless it was absolutely necessary.  The Colts shared this sentiment,  as Cassius Vaughn got the start on the outside before he did, despite being behind him on the depth chart. We later lost powers to injury as well so they were both forced in the starting lineup. 

[Hoosiernsavga]

5 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Robinson is not way better than Toler.   He is better in the slot than Butler but not on the outside    He and Toler are about equal IMO 

Please! Robinson is no world beater but he's better then Toler. I guarantee it!!!