Sounds like the Bucs really knocked it out of the park with their 2nd round pick

[Dustin]

12 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Average kickers don't play for a long time.

 

Sure they do. As long as they're consistently average.

[Dustin]

6 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Average (and especially Bad) kickers miss occasionally in crucial crunch time or game winning situations.   Do it often enough, then they eventually get run out of town.  Better than average or great kickers rarely ever  miss in crunch time or in game winning situations.  They are treasured and held on to. No other standard necessary.

 

KICKER WINZ: The post 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Sure they do. As long as they're consistently average.

 

Becoming one of the greatest kickers of all-time means doing your job well and doing it for along time. It helps to achieve feats that garner recognition, both by Football writers and fans alike.  Here some of the best kickers to play:

 

Morton Anderson-
6-time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 79.6 percent FG (565 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,544 career points in 382 games (25 seasons)

 

Adam Vinatieri-
3-time first-team All-Pro, 3-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX (Patriots) and XLI (Colts) champion
Career success rates: 84.1 percent FG (503 made), 98.3 percent PAT
2,253 career points in 306 games (20 seasons)

 

Stephen Ghostkowski-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XLIX champion (Patriots)
Career success rates: 87.3 percent FG (276 made), 99.8 percent PAT
1,330 career points in 152 games (10 seasons)

 

Gary Anderson-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 80.1 percent FG (538 made); 99.2 percent PAT
2,434 career points in 353 games (23 seasons)

 

Jason Hanson-
All-Pro (1997), 2-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 82.4 percent FG (495 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,150 career points in 327 games (21 seasons)

 

Jason Elam-
3-time All-Pro, 3-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XXXII, XXXIII champion (Broncos)
Career success rates: 80.7 percent FG (436 made); 99.4 percent PAT
1,983 career points in 263 games (17 seasons)

 

Matt Stover-
All-Pro, Pro Bowl (2000)
Super Bowl XXV (Giants), XXXV (Ravens) champion
Career success rates: 83.7 percent FG (471 made), 99.5 percent PAT
2,004 career points in 297 games (19 seasons)

 

John Carney-
All-Pro (1994), 2-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XLIV champion (Saints)
Career success rates: 82.4 percent FG (478 made), 98.4 percent PAT
2,062 career points in 302 games (23 seasons)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sebastian Janikowski-
Pro Bowl (2011),  {PFF (2009. 2011) and Sporting News (2011) 1st team All Pro}
Career success rates: 80.2 percent FG (385), 99.2 percent PAT
1675 career points in 252 games (16 seasons)

It seems to me Seabass is right on pace to join those others in time.  The poor play of the Raiders is a good reason for no Super Bowl appearances and a general recognition.

Can you define and list the stats of an 'average' kicker, especially one that has lasted in the league a similar amount of time to those I listed?  I'd like to see their stats... and have you back up your claim with some substance.

[Coffeedrinker]

21 hours ago, Gavin said:

Seems like there is a disagreement of what entails being an average kicker and great. But average kickers do play for a long time. That's like saying bad O Linemen don't play for a long time. We all know that's no true

Bad olineman don't play for a long time either, especially not 16 years.

 

But no, someone who is up there is the greatest in FG %, points scored XP made, XP % and has longevity wit one team is not average.  Especially when that organization has gone through numerous coaching and GM changes and even an owner change.

[braveheartcolt]

On 25/08/2016 at 11:09 AM, NFLfan said:

 

Booing him makes no sense. It does not help him kick field goals better. It is more likely that it will adversely affect his confidence. He is a rookie and rookies make mistakes. Give the kid a break.

 

This kid did not ask to be drafted where he was. If anyone should be booed, it should be the ones who drafted him in the 2nd round.

Heck, I boo my lovely wife when she serves up a burnt dinner. Nothing wrong with booing. And before you all get chippy, she boos herself as well........I do cook more right enough....

[Dustin]

6 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Becoming one of the greatest kickers of all-time means doing your job well and doing it for along time. It helps to achieve feats that garner recognition, both by Football writers and fans alike.  Here some of the best kickers to play:

 

Morton Anderson-
6-time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 79.6 percent FG (565 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,544 career points in 382 games (25 seasons)

 

Adam Vinatieri-
3-time first-team All-Pro, 3-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX (Patriots) and XLI (Colts) champion
Career success rates: 84.1 percent FG (503 made), 98.3 percent PAT
2,253 career points in 306 games (20 seasons)

 

Stephen Ghostkowski-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XLIX champion (Patriots)
Career success rates: 87.3 percent FG (276 made), 99.8 percent PAT
1,330 career points in 152 games (10 seasons)

 

Gary Anderson-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 80.1 percent FG (538 made); 99.2 percent PAT
2,434 career points in 353 games (23 seasons)

 

Jason Hanson-
All-Pro (1997), 2-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 82.4 percent FG (495 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,150 career points in 327 games (21 seasons)

 

Jason Elam-
3-time All-Pro, 3-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XXXII, XXXIII champion (Broncos)
Career success rates: 80.7 percent FG (436 made); 99.4 percent PAT
1,983 career points in 263 games (17 seasons)

 

Matt Stover-
All-Pro, Pro Bowl (2000)
Super Bowl XXV (Giants), XXXV (Ravens) champion
Career success rates: 83.7 percent FG (471 made), 99.5 percent PAT
2,004 career points in 297 games (19 seasons)

 

John Carney-
All-Pro (1994), 2-time Pro Bowler
Super Bowl XLIV champion (Saints)
Career success rates: 82.4 percent FG (478 made), 98.4 percent PAT
2,062 career points in 302 games (23 seasons)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sebastian Janikowski-
Pro Bowl (2011),  {PFF (2009. 2011) and Sporting News (2011) 1st team All Pro}
Career success rates: 80.2 percent FG (385), 99.2 percent PAT
1675 career points in 252 games (16 seasons)

It seems to me Seabass is right on pace to join those others in time.  The poor play of the Raiders is a good reason for no Super Bowl appearances and a general recognition.

Can you define and list the stats of an 'average' kicker, especially one that has lasted in the league a similar amount of time to those I listed?  I'd like to see their stats... and have you back up your claim with some substance.

 

Field goal %. Literally the only stats that matters. 

[Dustin]

46 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Bad olineman don't play for a long time either, especially not 16 years.

 

But no, someone who is up there is the greatest in FG %, points scored XP made, XP % and has longevity wit one team is not average.  Especially when that organization has gone through numerous coaching and GM changes and even an owner change.

 

He's nowhere near the greatest field goal %. He's a career 80% player. He was above his career average last season and was still only the 30th most accurate in the league. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Field goal %. Literally the only stats that matters. 

 

You've proven essentially nothing.  Carry on...

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Field goal %. Literally the only stats that matters. 

 

Morton Anderson-
6-time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 79.6 percent FG (565 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,544 career points in 382 games (25 seasons)

 

My greatest ranked kicker ever., then...

 

Gary Anderson-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 80.1 percent FG (538 made); 99.2 percent PAT
2,434 career points in 353 games (23 seasons)

 

My 4th greatest kicker of all time.  Both of these guys have a worse career FG% than Janikowski. 

 

Sebastian Janikowski-
Career success rates: 80.2 percent

 

So those two really were not very good at all then now, were they... because of their FG%.  :-(

 

 

 

[Dustin]

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Morton Anderson-
6-time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 79.6 percent FG (565 made), 98.8 percent PAT
2,544 career points in 382 games (25 seasons)

 

My greatest ranked kicker ever., then...

 

Gary Anderson-
2-time first-team All-Pro, 4-time Pro Bowler
Career success rates: 80.1 percent FG (538 made); 99.2 percent PAT
2,434 career points in 353 games (23 seasons)

 

My 4th greatest kicker of all time.  Both of these guys have a worse career FG% than Janikowski. 

 

Sebastian Janikowski-
Career success rates: 80.2 percent

 

So those two really were not very good at all then now, were they... because of their FG%.  :-(

 

 

 

 

Both Andersons debuted in the 80's and they were consistently near the top in accuracy. Of the top 41 kickers in acc% only two debuted in the 80s. One being Gary Anderson. 15 of the top 20 debuted post-2000.

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Both Andersons debuted in the 80's and they were consistently near the top in accuracy. Of the top 41 kickers in acc% only two debuted in the 80s. One being Gary Anderson. 15 of the top 20 debuted post-2000.

 

Hmmm,  Kicking Accuracy legends like Mike Vanderjagt only made it through 9 seasons...  Why? Nothing like the 16 -25 of those on my list.  (AV and Ghost are on it though) .  Guess sometimes accuracy isn't the end all be all in others minds. folks need to do it consistently over a long time, especially crunch time (AV - 'Money'  by Tony Dungy)

 

 

[Dustin]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Hmmm,  Kicking Accuracy legends like Mike Vanderjagt only made it through 9 seasons...  Why? Nothing like the 16 -25 of those on my list.  (AV and Ghost are on it though) .  Guess sometimes accuracy isn't the end all be all in others minds. folks need to do it consistently over a long time, especially crunch time (AV - 'Money'  by Tony Dungy)

 

 

 

I literally have no idea what you are saying.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

I literally have no idea what you are saying.

Dustin-

"Seabass is just an average kicker who'sh played for a long time."

"He's a career 80% guy"

            *** Average kickers don't play for a long time. ***

"Sure they do. As long as they're consistently average."

 

*****************************************************************************************************888

 

Mike Vanderjagt-     86.5% career FG % , 9 years in league

 

Sebatian Janikowsi-  80.2 % career FG %, 16 years in league and counting...

 

Dustin Winz!!

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Dustin-

"Seabass is just an average kicker who'sh played for a long time."

"He's a career 80% guy"

            *** Average kickers don't play for a long time. ***

"Sure they do. As long as they're consistently average."

 

*****************************************************************************************************888

 

Mike Vanderjagt-     86.5% career FG % , 9 years in league

 

Sebatian Janikowsi-  80.2 % career FG %, 16 years in league and counting...

 

Dustin Winz!!

 

Vanderjagt wasn't consistently average. He was great for a few years and then had a terrible final season. Also he was a * who nobody liked and it's why he wasn't re-signed post-2006 anyway. 

[buffalo34]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 0:27 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

The highest I'd ever take a kicker or a punter is the 5th round.     And he'd have to be special for that to happen.

 

Otherwise,  the 6th or 7th round would be fine.

 

But the first or second day?    Seriously?    Not a snow ball's chance in.....  well....    you know where!

 

 

Didn't the Raiders once take a K or P in the first round?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, buffalo34 said:

 

Didn't the Raiders once take a K or P in the first round?

 

Yup.......    Janikowski....    still there....

 

And there have been successful kickers in the 2nd round too.    I think Jason Hanson was all-pro level for nearly 20 years for Detroit.

 

I just wouldn't invest that high on a kicker or punter.       

 

I mean,  look at the Colts....    McAfee was taken in the 6th round....   and was Vinatieri drafted by NE, or was he a Free Agent?      I don't know?      But if he was drafted,  he was drafted late.

 

So,  two of the best kickers in the game either taken late or free agents.     That's the norm.

 

Successful kickers drafted high are the exceptions to the rule.....

 

Just a personal preference.....     your mileage may vary....

 

[JPFolks]

On 8/23/2016 at 1:05 AM, RockThatBlue said:

Yup, one of the dumbest draft picks in recent memory. I remember the Jags drafted a punter in the 3rd round I think it was several years ago.

Anger I believe.