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Sounds like the Bucs really knocked it out of the park with their 2nd round pick


RockThatBlue

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The highest I'd ever take a kicker or a punter is the 5th round.     And he'd have to be special for that to happen.

 

Otherwise,  the 6th or 7th round would be fine.

 

But the first or second day?    Seriously?    Not a snow ball's chance in.....  well....    you know where!

 

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36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The highest I'd ever take a kicker or a punter is the 5th round.     And he'd have to be special for that to happen.

 

Otherwise,  the 6th or 7th round would be fine.

 

But the first or second day?    Seriously?    Not a snow ball's chance in.....  well....    you know where!

 

Yup, one of the dumbest draft picks in recent memory. I remember the Jags drafted a punter in the 3rd round I think it was several years ago.

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2 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Yup, one of the dumbest draft picks in recent memory. I remember the Jags drafted a punter in the 3rd round I think it was several years ago.

Bryan Anger was his name if I remember right, Right before Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. Shows how big a mistake you can make. In 2012.

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Bryan Anger was him name if I remember right, Right before Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. Shows how big a mistake you can make. In 2012.

Good punters and kickers can be found in the UDFA pool. Heck, that Parkey guy we had last year is the starting kicker for the Eagles. Not sure what those 2 teams were thinking.

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Just now, RockThatBlue said:

Good punters and kickers can be found in the UDFA pool. Heck, that Parkey guy we had last year is the starting kicker for the Eagles. Not sure what those 2 teams were thinking.

Yep, crazy to do something like that. You should be taking those guys late, even if there is supposedly a special one. Vinny was undrafted and Pat was a 7th round pick. Not getting Russell Wilson is a franchise changing move instead of a Punter, and he was widely projected to go in the 3rd round when they needed a QB. Dumb organizations do dumb things, and both the Jags and Bucs will figure that out.

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Wouldnt either of you have drafted McAfee in like the 3rd or 4th if you knew what he was capable of and how consistent he is? Obviously the key word in that last sentence being knew

 

Considering what he can do for us field position wise, McAfee is easily worth a 3rd rounder to me. Maybe even 2nd.

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7 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Not sure what those 2 teams were thinking.

 

For the Bucs, it was this (draft rpofile) -

 

"What do you do for an encore after winning the Lou Groza Award as the nation's top kicker? How about lead the nation in field goal percentage one year, and then become the first three-time All-American to play for the 'Noles since Deion Sanders? Not bad. Among his other accomplishments, Aguayo was a major player in the teams 2013 national championship, setting FBS records with 157 points scored and 94 point after tries without a miss. He also made 21-of-22 field goal attempts on the year. The three-time first team All-ACC pick by league coaches set a conference record by making 198 straight extra points every one in his storied career. Aguayo led the NCAA in field goal percentage in 2014, making 27-of-30 attempts, though he fell off a bit as a junior (21-26, just 5-for-10 from 40 or more yards away). He had 47 touchbacks in 84 kickoffs in 2015 (56 percent, up from 51 percent in 2014 and 37.5 percent in 2013), presenting leg strength NFL special teams coaches covet.


Was Mr. Automatic during Florida State's successful run from 2013­-2014 and connected on 88.5 percent of his field goals during his career. Never missed a field goal from 39 yards and in during his three years at Florida State going 46-of-46."

 

OTOH-

 

"Saw his accuracy dip in 2015. Made just 5-of-9 field goals from 41 yards and beyond. Will occasionally lose track of a kickoff and knock it out of bounds. Only attempted six kicks of 50-plus yards during his career.

 

DRAFT PROJECTION -  Round 3"

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8 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Wouldnt either of you have drafted McAfee in like the 3rd or 4th if you knew what he was capable of and how consistent he is? Obviously the key word in that last sentence being knew

 

Considering what he can do for us field position wise, McAfee is easily worth a 3rd rounder to me. Maybe even 2nd.

 

No

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10 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Wouldnt either of you have drafted McAfee in like the 3rd or 4th if you knew what he was capable of and how consistent he is? Obviously the key word in that last sentence being knew

 

Considering what he can do for us field position wise, McAfee is easily worth a 3rd rounder to me. Maybe even 2nd.

 

Nope

 

Punters and kickers are hampered by the fact that they are only on the field for a small number of plays.  I would have drafted McAffee knowing what I know now in the 5th.  

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15 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Yup, one of the dumbest draft picks in recent memory. I remember the Jags drafted a punter in the 3rd round I think it was several years ago.

 

It's moves like those that convince me that the average NFL fan could do a better job being general manager of some of these bad teams then their actual GM's.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Wouldnt either of you have drafted McAfee in like the 3rd or 4th if you knew what he was capable of and how consistent he is? Obviously the key word in that last sentence being knew

 

Considering what he can do for us field position wise, McAfee is easily worth a 3rd rounder to me. Maybe even 2nd.

That is easy to say when using hindsight. If I remember correctly when Pat took his night time swimming lesson some thought he should have been cut. Pat took a bad situation and worked hard and made himself a great football player. Pat is proof second chances do happen and work out if the player wakes up and applies themselves. He worked hard for his franchise contract.

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I think he'll become a good kicker. Just in a rough stretch right now, but he was excellent in college.

 

But even if he becomes an all pro, world class, top notch, cream of the crop, best kicker ever, it still doesn't justify taking him in the SECOND ROUND. Kickers are important, and sometimes they decide games, but it won't matter if the rest of the team sucks. I would expect my second round pick to play a position that is on the field for a majority of the game.

 

But hey if Aguayo kicks a SB winning kick sometime in his career, none of this would matter, right?

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On 8/23/2016 at 1:05 AM, RockThatBlue said:

Yup, one of the dumbest draft picks in recent memory. I remember the Jags drafted a punter in the 3rd round I think it was several years ago.

 

22 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It's moves like those that convince me that the average NFL fan could do a better job being general manager of some of these bad teams then their actual GM's.  

 

 

 

Special teams is one of the 3 phases.  Having an excellent kicker and punter is not to be underestimated.  The Raiders took a 2 time consensus All-American kicker from Florida State in round 1 (#17) in 2000.  He's still kicking today for the Raiders.- now in his 17th season. So the Bucs tried to take a 3 time consensus All-American kicker from Florida State, in round 2 instead.  Like all draft picks, it's a game of chance.  Jury is still out on him but times a tickin' away...

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1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Special teams is one of the 3 phases.  Having an excellent kicker and punter is not to be underestimated.  The Raiders took a 2 time consensus All-American kicker from Florida State in round 1 (#17) in 2000.  He's still kicking today for the Raiders.- now in his 17th season. So the Bucs tried to take a 3 time consensus All-American kicker from Florida State, in round 2 instead.  Like all draft picks, it's a game of chance.  Jury is still out on him but times a tickin' away...

 

The fact that he's still kicking is meaningless.  

 

They could have taken someone who was going to take a lot more snaps and be more involved in the game.

 

On top of that the talent difference between him and other kickers isn't that great.  

 

On top of that, other teams would pass and they could get him later.  

 

There just isn't much value in special teams players early in the draft.  

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2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

The fact that he's still kicking is meaningless.  

 

Yeah, maybe for you and some others. But, tell that to the Raider Nation.

 

2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

They could have taken someone who was going to take a lot more snaps and be more involved in the game.

 


They did that too, and none of those guys stuck long.  Seabass is Raider Royalty, and was possibly the star player and main attraction for well over the last decade of ineptitude.

 

2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

On top of that the talent difference between him and other kickers isn't that great.  

 

On top of that, other teams would pass and they could get him later.  

 

There just isn't much value in special teams players early in the draft.  

 

Yeah, maybe you and some others, but tell that to the Raider Nation.

 

Quote

 

On top of that the talent difference between him and other kickers isn't that great.

 

On what basis?  # of FG made, % of FG made, years in playing service, game winning FG's? Draft slot? Precisely what? I need something to go on, just in case I want to later verify that claim.

 

Quote

 

On top of that, other teams would pass and they could get him later. 

 

There just isn't much value in special teams players early in the draft.  

 

GM's take chances and wait in the draft for many players, and often enough lose out in the next round.  Some teams feel if they have excellent Defense, and upper tier special teams, they can win a Super Bowl without a Franchise QB (not that I subscribe to that mantra) and have a good game manager.  KC is looking to do just that this year.

 

You don't feel that way, but some do feel a Sebastion Janikowski type pick was worth one, just one, in over 15 years, high round draft pick.  All other draft picks were used for non kicking players. Some feel that is an amazing return on investment.

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On 8/20/2016 at 11:01 AM, TDewar1987 said:

I wouldn't go that far really. Being physical and aggressive is great, but you also don't want to get injured in preseason either. The Bills defense is nothing to shrug your shoulders at either. That's mainly why Luck sat out that game.

That and Rex Ryan is known to blitz heavy in the pre-season, which not a lot of teams/coaches do as much of.

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On 8/23/2016 at 3:21 PM, RockThatBlue said:

 

 

Booing him makes no sense. It does not help him kick field goals better. It is more likely that it will adversely affect his confidence. He is a rookie and rookies make mistakes. Give the kid a break.

 

This kid did not ask to be drafted where he was. If anyone should be booed, it should be the ones who drafted him in the 2nd round.

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3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Booing him makes no sense. It does not help him kick field goals better. It is more likely that it will adversely affect his confidence. He is a rookie and rookies make mistakes. Give the kid a break.

 

This kid did not ask to be drafted where he was. If anyone should be booed, it should be the ones who drafted him in the 2nd round.

 

well, playing devil's advocate...it's not like the GM gets introduced to the crowd at every home game, so the fans in the stadium really have no way of booing the GM other than booing the guy that he picked. 

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16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

On what basis?  # of FG made, % of FG made, years in playing service, game winning FG's? Draft slot? Precisely what? I need something to go on, just in case I want to later verify that claim.

The fact that he's a kicker for heck's sake. 

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On 8/23/2016 at 6:29 AM, Chucklez said:

Wouldnt either of you have drafted McAfee in like the 3rd or 4th if you knew what he was capable of and how consistent he is? Obviously the key word in that last sentence being knew

 

Considering what he can do for us field position wise, McAfee is easily worth a 3rd rounder to me. Maybe even 2nd.

no. maybe a 5th but thats stretching it

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2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

well, playing devil's advocate...it's not like the GM gets introduced to the crowd at every home game, so the fans in the stadium really have no way of booing the GM other than booing the guy that he picked. 

 

That might be true but that's a terrible position to be in for the kid.  

 

I get that fans want to express their anger about the pick but you have to find ways to vent your anger towards the right people.

 

I'm sure Tampa has online forums, radio shows, and other venues in which fans could complain about their team's terrible management without taking it out on the kid.  

 

My view is only boo players on your own team if they are playing excessively terribly or have personally done something to stab the team or fan base in the back.  Like if you are down by 30 points to the worst team in the league at halftime. . . Totally support booing your own team (the whole team) then.  If a player rips on the team or its fans to the public. . . I can support booing then.  

 

But not booing players for being drafted too highly or failing to live up to expectations.  Those expectations and draft status are put on them by other people.  And someone in that position has enough to worry about as it is.  

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41 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Is there a big difference in kicking in college compared to the NFL?? The guy was damn near perfect in college and is sucking it up big time in the NFL.

 

Honestly one would think that it and punting are the two positions where the change isn't that great between college and the pros.

 

Part of me wonders if the pressure isn't getting to the kid.  

 

I mean being a 2nd round pick is probably not something he expected and all the fans are obviously mad about it.  So he's under pressure to try to justify the GM's unjustifiable move.  Most kickers don't get that kind of pressure out of the gate like that.  

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18 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Honestly one would think that it and punting are the two positions where the change isn't that great between college and the pros.

 

Part of me wonders if the pressure isn't getting to the kid.  

 

I mean being a 2nd round pick is probably not something he expected and all the fans are obviously mad about it.  So he's under pressure to try to justify the GM's unjustifiable move.  Most kickers don't get that kind of pressure out of the gate like that.  

Yeah, the pressure is probably getting to him. I honestly feel bad for him, he didn't ask to be drafted so high nor did he probably expect it. He probably feels like he needs to be perfect after being drafted so high, and its hurting him mentally. 

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44 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Yeah, the pressure is probably getting to him. I honestly feel bad for him, he didn't ask to be drafted so high nor did he probably expect it. He probably feels like he needs to be perfect after being drafted so high, and its hurting him mentally. 

 

I agree . . . probably doesn't help that his own team's fans are booing him.  

 

Guy is in a terrible position because he can't win.  See an ordinary field player could go out there, play really well and show people "See I was worth the pick!!".  A lot of good players have been fueled by that.  JJ Watt still mentioned being fueled by boos on his draft day.  On offense or defense you can do that at any position.  

 

At kicker. . . he could hit every field goal and it wouldn't matter.  Shoot he could set the NFL record for the longest successful field goal and it still wouldn't matter.  Everyone is still going to say he wasn't worth a 2nd round pick.  There is nothing he can do to win.   

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It may be a dumb draft pick but I will wait awhile.  in 2000 the Raiders drafting Sebastian Janikowski in the 1st round seemed like a dumb pick but 16 years later he is the Raiders all time leading scorer, only has missed 4 games in his career, still playing at a high level and has won numerous games for the Raiders.

 

I'd say, if the Bucs get that from their 2nd round pick then they are doing really well.  Except for getting numerous wins for the Bus not the Raiders.

 

Of course he could turn out like Mike Nugent, a solid but unspectacular kicker that has played for multiple teams.

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8 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It may be a dumb draft pick but I will wait awhile.  in 2000 the Raiders drafting Sebastian Janikowski in the 1st round seemed like a dumb pick but 16 years later he is the Raiders all time leading scorer, only has missed 4 games in his career, still playing at a high level and has won numerous games for the Raiders.]

 

Even knowing that in hindsight, I'd have never spent a 1st round pick on him.  Just me though :)

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23 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Even knowing that in hindsight, I'd have never spent a 1st round pick on him.  Just me though :)

 

He was taken before Shaun Alexander too. Seabass is just an average kicker who'sh played for a long time. 

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I'm a Seminole fan who watched Bobby Bowden give the first ever full ride to a kicker after he lost 2 national championships in a row on missed kicks. It was first ever full ride from the start (aka not first scholarship by definition as others had earned other scholarships), first recruiting trip after a kicker or something...first something of that nature lol so I do get it but the Buccs? Now??? I mean it's not like Jameis Winston would be a SB winner if he had a kicker. It was a stupid idea whether the kicker was perfect so far or not. 

 

Janikowski is also a Seminole, but heck no...how many games has he won as a Raider while they're getting blown out?

 

Ya'll know Adam Vinatari right...but still. If I had to choose between him and Peyton to win the game I'm taking Peyton.

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Average kickers don't play for a long time.

Seems like there is a disagreement of what entails being an average kicker and great. But average kickers do play for a long time. That's like saying bad O Linemen don't play for a long time. We all know that's no true

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2 hours ago, Gavin said:

Seems like there is a disagreement of what entails being an average kicker and great. But average kickers do play for a long time. That's like saying bad O Linemen don't play for a long time. We all know that's no true

 

Average (and especially Bad) kickers miss occasionally in crucial crunch time or game winning situations.   Do it often enough, then they eventually get run out of town.  Better than average or great kickers rarely ever  miss in crunch time or in game winning situations.  They are treasured and held on to. No other standard necessary.

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54 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Average (and especially Bad) kickers miss occasionally in crucial crunch time or game winning situations.   Do it often enough, then they eventually get run out of town.  Better than average or great kickers rarely ever  miss in crunch time or in game winning situations.  They are treasured and held on to. No other standard necessary.

Sure there is another standard. If you kick a game winning field goal in the SB but miss 2-3 others in the SB that's still an overall bad game by the kicker. Its not just about crunch time. Its about the overall performance. That's the standard. You are paying him for consistent play throughout the season not just clutch kicks

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