Art Jones suspended 4 games

[HOZER]

15 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This post doesn't make any sense. So because no one is perfect, no one should face consequences for their actions?  That is one of the weakest arguments.  What's next the, "everyone does it," defense.  OR maybe Jones is just the victim he was driven to it because of the demands of an NFL career.

 

I know I make mistakes and I have done wrong and I fully expect to pay for my mistakes if I do.  And if I do something that, according to our company polciy, is ground for termination, I'm certainly not going to cry and say, "Well, haven't you ever made a mistake."  Then if I wasn't very good at my job to begin with and I did something as ground for termination I would fully expect to be terminated.

 

The next part doesn't make any sense either, somehow because someone posts that Jones should be cut means they are not worrying about ISIS attacks, muslims taking over the world by force, etc.  I guess since you posted on this thread as well that means you don't worry about those things either and you need to "R-E-L-A-X".

 

The guy screwed up, he deserves whatever punishment he receives, even if that means being cut from the team.

Wish I had the option to repeatedly like this post.

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

 

Was this a serious post? If so, sounds like you're the one that needs to R-E-L-A-X....you brought politics and real world issues into a conversation about football, you know, a GAME.

 

Mathis has produced, and his violation was suspect. Jones has done NOTHING for this team but take up valuable space. He can't play without getting injured, and now this. I believe in second chances but sometimes hard decisions have to be made for the betterment of the team. Most people in his situation would have made ABSOLUTELY sure that they stayed in line with all the rules, especially with his 2 brothers history. I wish there was some type of wording in his contract that would negate it if he was caught using peds or any other illegal drug.

 

Jags and Texans fans are laughing at us? Who cares?????

 

And yes my mother is proud of me, and I DO mentor kids, so if he needs one I'd be more then happy to offer my services, we know he's got plenty of $$$

No response from me is needed I see. I obviously struck a nerve.

i stand by my every word tho.

btw, if I was any more relaxed, I'd be asleep.  You are the one all keyed up on caffeine.  Relax, it's only football, it has no real direct effect on our lives. At least it shouldn't.

[HOZER]

17 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

No response from me is needed I see. I obviously struck a nerve.

i stand by my every word tho.

btw, if I was any more relaxed, I'd be asleep.  You are the one all keyed up on caffeine.  Relax, it's only football, it has no real direct effect on our lives. At least it shouldn't.

Nah, I'm cool as a cucumber bud, well when I'm not outside that is.... it sure is hot out!

 

Yes you did strike a nerve by questioning others fanhood due to their opinion on the subject matter. And then you brought up politics/violence? Come on man! Either way you have the right to your opinion as well, carry on.

 

 

And FYI I only had one small cup of coffee this morning before going to work.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This post doesn't make any sense. So because no one is perfect, no one should face consequences for their actions?  That is one of the weakest arguments.  What's next the, "everyone does it," defense.  OR maybe Jones is just the victim he was driven to it because of the demands of an NFL career.

 

I know I make mistakes and I have done wrong and I fully expect to pay for my mistakes if I do.  And if I do something that, according to our company polciy, is ground for termination, I'm certainly not going to cry and say, "Well, haven't you ever made a mistake."  Then if I wasn't very good at my job to begin with and I did something as ground for termination I would fully expect to be terminated.

 

The next part doesn't make any sense either, somehow because someone posts that Jones should be cut means they are not worrying about ISIS attacks, muslims taking over the world by force, etc.  I guess since you posted on this thread as well that means you don't worry about those things either and you need to "R-E-L-A-X".

 

The guy screwed up, he deserves whatever punishment he receives, even if that means being cut from the team.

U put words in my mouth.

i'm saying NONE of us , (certainly me included) , is perfect and we shouldn't cast stones.  Nothing more, nothing less.  He IS being penalized.  4 games and quite a large sum of money.

 

sorry it makes "no sense" to you but I feel it's pretty clear what I said and meant.

our society as a whole is overly judgmental.  When in fact usually should be worried about getting our own "house" in order.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

U put words in my mouth.

i'm saying NONE of us , (certainly me included) , is perfect and we shouldn't cast stones.  Nothing more, nothing less.  He IS being penalized.  4 games and quite a large sum of money.

 

sorry it makes "no sense" to you but I feel it's pretty clear what I said and meant.

our society as a whole is overly judgmental.  When in fact usually should be worried about getting our own "house" in order.

Aren't you being overly judgemental and "casting stones" at the people who think he should be cut?  Telling them they should relax, get their own house in order, etc.

 

[WoolMagnet]

21 minutes ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Nah, I'm cool as a cucumber bud, well when I'm not outside that is.... it sure is hot out!

 

Yes you did strike a nerve by questioning others fanhood due to their opinion on the subject matter. And then you brought up politics/violence? Come on man! Either way you have the right to your opinion as well, carry on.

 

 

And FYI I only had one small cup of coffee this morning before going to work.

I would never question fan hood as such.  That is a personal thing and everyone has different levels of love/hate and emotion for the game.  That's the beauty of it.  I'm really no more or less a fan than the next guy.  It's all relative.

i just have to laugh at the knee-jerk emotional reactions that are just ridiculous when you remove emotion and treat as a business.(which unfortunately it is..... Big time).

 

the violence was off-subject but was meant to convey just how unimportant this whole Art Jones 4 game thing was in the big picture of life.  Using PEDs doesn't make someone a bad person.  It just doesn't.  It's not a very smart move, granted, but I don't see that warranting the hate he's getting.  If his boss doesn't think that warrants termination, why should I?

its all good. And please know, I truly believe every fan has the right to be whatever type of fan they want. And I have the right to disagree.

[WoolMagnet]

20 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Aren't you being overly judgemental and "casting stones" at the people who think he should be cut?  Telling them they should relax, get their own house in order, etc.

 

perhaps but I felt big Art needed a little help.

i have a weakness to help those with "broken wings".

this forum has a tendency to over-react sometimes. Well, maybe more than sometimes.

but yea, maybe so but if teams cut players for every infraction and every time fans wanted them cut, Blue would have to suit up.

[WoolMagnet]

Hey /m/COLTS/m/.......  What is the meaning of the badge?  Is it firefighter?

[HOZER]

14 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Hey /m/COLTS/m/.......  What is the meaning of the badge?  Is it firefighter?

Yes Sir, it's the firefighter Maltese cross with the thin red line,  it shows honorable respect to fallen firefighters, similar to the thin blue line for police.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

 Using PEDs doesn't make someone a bad person.  It just doesn't.

 

OK, but just what does it make someone who violates this-

The Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 placed anabolic steroids into Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) as of February 27, 1991. Under this legislation, anabolic steroids are defined as any drug or hormonal substance chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone (other than estrogens, progestins, and corticosteroids) that promotes muscle growth.

 

The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine if this is an individual’s first drug offense. The maximum penalty for trafficking is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 if this is the individual’s first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double. While the above listed penalties are for federal offenses, individual states have also implemented fines and penalties for illegal use of anabolic steroids.

 

Cheater? Law Breaker? What? 

 

Termination capability is written into the PEDS policy, at the discretion of the Commissioner and team.  But 4 games and no termination on first offense seems reasonable, IMO.  But even if Jones returns and plays the best D of all players in the league {snicker}, he is ineligible for the Pro Bowl and other such honors for 2016.  This happens to every player suspended for PED use for or during the season.

[WoolMagnet]

I don't know ColtsBlue.  Cheater?

its the physical violence stuff that really hits me hard.

no pun intended

[Jeff Tolle]

Jones is a Fat T_u_r_d anyway! Cut him now, he would be injured before the mid-season point.

*

[BOTT]

On July 22, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Lawrence Owen said:

I've been a 'pro-Jones' guy this past year when people have been calling for his cut due to the inability to be on the field.  While not attempting to make excuses for the guy, i am wondering if the PED's were used to strengthen his glass ankle?  If so, perhaps it was worththe shot at getting caught in his eyes.  He knew he was on a very slim ledge with Indy, (aka, his restructured contract) so it may have been his plan to make sure his ankle could stand up.  (but why not just wear a brace the next couple years instead?....IDK).

Either way, IDK if that is what is was for.   If it was, Indy may let him sit his 4 games and then go from there, with ANY set-back spelling his doom afterwards.  If it wasn't, then i'd be in that line to give Jones his termination papers.

He probably used for the same reason a lot of athletes use them.....they help performance.

[Coffeedrinker]

11 minutes ago, BOTT said:

He probably used for the same reason a lot of athletes use them.....they help performance.

Huh, I never would have made the connection.

[WoolMagnet]

Well, it's me again.  I'm back.

in all sincerity, I guess I was extreme in my choice of words.  I'm sorry if I offended.

i love the forum, rarely post (which is good apparently haha).  But I love the info I get here as I live in Pa. During the season, I'm here multiple times a day.  Too much, actually.

once again, sorry.  I wasn't singling out any one person. 

Keep the faith, Colt fans.

it will all work out.  One way or another.

[Dark Superman]

I think if Jones had a large cap hit this season, he would definitely be cut. But since he only counts 2.5 against the cap I think he's a safe bet to make the roster. There's no question that a healthy Jones can be a difference maker on defense. I hope at some point we're able to have a healthy Jones, Langford and Anderson all on the field.. that could be a very good defensive line.

[bleevit]

On 7/22/2016 at 4:39 PM, Caleb3502 said:

Who starts in his place now?  Kerr? Ridgeway? McGill?

I like Zach. He's been progressing. That's assuming Henry can't go yet. Maybe Ridgeway will play with some fire. He appears to be a hoss when he does.

[bleevit]

2 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I think if Jones had a large cap hit this season, he would definitely be cut. But since he only counts 2.5 against the cap I think he's a safe bet to make the roster. There's no question that a healthy Jones can be a difference maker on defense. I hope at some point we're able to have a healthy Jones, Langford and Anderson all on the field.. that could be a very good defensive line.

I like Parry in the middle. He always plays on their side of the line of scrimmage. That would let Jones, Anderson and Langford rotate. Maybe Kerr comes in to spell Parry. Could be pretty good. I'm old Anderson reminds me of Bob Lilly.

[chrisfarley]

33 million dollar bionic man built on PEDs

[ColtsFanMikeC]

On 7/22/2016 at 3:08 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

You and I have very differing opinions on what constitutes "significant contributions."

 

In his first year with the Colts, the Colts allowed more YPC with Jones that they did without Jones.  Not that is was the sole reason but the tape showed that after the ball was snapped Jones had very little impact on most plays. But that was his first year in a new defense and first time being the starter rather than a rotational guy, so I was hoping he would improve his 2nd year and maybe he did but he got injured before we could find out.

 

That wasn't really a new defense for Jones (he was coming over from Baltimore, who was running a very similar scheme when Pagano was their D-coodinator) -- (see Chapman's quote in this link -- "He's played in this defense a long time." -- http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Welcome-Back-Arthur-Jones-At-Just-The-Right-Time/b73ecda4-b124-45c8-aaf4-37bde80e4a99

 

Also, see this link -- which suggests the Colts' D has less YPC when Jones is on the field (not sure the source of your data where you're getting it backwards): http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Welcome-Back-Arthur-Jones-At-Just-The-Right-Time/b73ecda4-b124-45c8-aaf4-37bde80e4a99

 

“Just look at the numbers when (Jones) was in the lineup to when he was out of the lineup,” Chuck Pagano said at this year’s Owner Meetings. “It’s well documented that when he’s in there, we are better.”

 

 

[Lawrence Owen]

17 hours ago, BOTT said:

He probably used for the same reason a lot of athletes use them.....they help performance.

I don't disagree with you at all.  I was just hoping for best case scenario >.<

[lollygagger8]

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

That wasn't really a new defense for Jones (he was coming over from Baltimore, who was running a very similar scheme when Pagano was their D-coodinator) -- (see Chapman's quote in this link -- "He's played in this defense a long time." -- http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Welcome-Back-Arthur-Jones-At-Just-The-Right-Time/b73ecda4-b124-45c8-aaf4-37bde80e4a99

 

Also, see this link -- which suggests the Colts' D has less YPC when Jones is on the field (not sure the source of your data where you're getting it backwards): http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Welcome-Back-Arthur-Jones-At-Just-The-Right-Time/b73ecda4-b124-45c8-aaf4-37bde80e4a99

 

“Just look at the numbers when (Jones) was in the lineup to when he was out of the lineup,” Chuck Pagano said at this year’s Owner Meetings. “It’s well documented that when he’s in there, we are better.”

 

 

It was similar to what Jones ran at Baltimore but not the same.  That is why I was I didn't think his poor play was earth shattering.

 

Yup, I ran the numbers of the games he played and the games he didn't play.  In the games he played the Colts allowed a lower YPC average than the games he didn't play.  The odd thing as I was running the numbers though, is with Jone in the game the opposing team used the running game a lot more.  With Jones teams ran the ball an average of 28.667 times per game, without Jones they ran the ball 20.33 times per game.  Without Jones the COlts D gave a lot more long running plays, with Jones, they gave up a lot more first downs via the ground. 

 

So, I will admit I was wrong about the higher YPC with Jones.  But I still would not quanitify what Jones did as a significant contribution to the run defense, mainly because teams were able to grind out the running game and keep the chains moving and keep the Colts O off the field.

 

Lastly, quoting Pagano doesn't really mean a lot.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

12 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It was similar to what Jones ran at Baltimore but not the same.  That is why I was I didn't think his poor play was earth shattering.

 

Yup, I ran the numbers of the games he played and the games he didn't play.  In the games he played the Colts allowed a lower YPC average than the games he didn't play.  The odd thing as I was running the numbers though, is with Jone in the game the opposing team used the running game a lot more.  With Jones teams ran the ball an average of 28.667 times per game, without Jones they ran the ball 20.33 times per game.  Without Jones the COlts D gave a lot more long running plays, with Jones, they gave up a lot more first downs via the ground. 

 

So, I will admit I was wrong about the higher YPC with Jones.  But I still would not quanitify what Jones did as a significant contribution to the run defense, mainly because teams were able to grind out the running game and keep the chains moving and keep the Colts O off the field.

 

Lastly, quoting Pagano doesn't really mean a lot.

 

I agree, Pagano says a lot of vanilla statements -- but in this case he is saying "well documented", which is true -- our running D, with Art in the lineup was allowing significantly less YPC.  This is when he is actually on the field, not sitting on the bench.  Here are the stats  -- http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/13395/the-statistics-show-that-the-colts-need-art-jones-on-the-field-to-stop-the-run :

 

WITHOUT JONES ON THE FIELD

• 257 rushes for 1,201 yards (4.67 yards per rush)

• 3.12 yards before contact per rush

• 12 rushing TDs (4.7 percent of rushes)

• First downs allowed on 26 percent of rushes

WITH JONES ON THE FIELD

• 165 rushes for 615 yards (3.73 yards per rush)

• 2.15 yards before contact per rush

• 2 rushing TDs (1.2 percent of rushes)

• First downs allowed on 22 percent of rushes

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

These numbers are pretty staggering, at least in my opinion (all of them -- the contact before rush sticks out the most to me, but the YPC, TD, and First Downs are all significant, too).

 

All that said, Jones has not been sidelined more than he's been on the field.  This PED suspension doesn't help the team and as you've said earlier, we won't miss him that much.  I don't agree with you that we won't miss him due to him not being a significant contributor when he is on the field (that he has been) -- but, he hasn't been healthy enough to be on the field long enough to really warrant missing him.... violating the league substance abuse policy doesn't help this team and doesn't help Jones.  If I'm the coach/GM, Jones is on a very short leash (or perhaps already dismissed) for this.

[Coffeedrinker]

18 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I agree, Pagano says a lot of vanilla statements -- but in this case he is saying "well documented", which is true -- our running D, with Art in the lineup was allowing significantly less YPC.  This is when he is actually on the field, not sitting on the bench.  Here are the stats  -- http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/13395/the-statistics-show-that-the-colts-need-art-jones-on-the-field-to-stop-the-run :

 

WITHOUT JONES ON THE FIELD

• 257 rushes for 1,201 yards (4.67 yards per rush)

• 3.12 yards before contact per rush

• 12 rushing TDs (4.7 percent of rushes)

• First downs allowed on 26 percent of rushes

WITH JONES ON THE FIELD

• 165 rushes for 615 yards (3.73 yards per rush)

• 2.15 yards before contact per rush

• 2 rushing TDs (1.2 percent of rushes)

• First downs allowed on 22 percent of rushes

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

These numbers are pretty staggering, at least in my opinion (all of them -- the contact before rush sticks out the most to me, but the YPC, TD, and First Downs are all significant, too).

 

All that said, Jones has not been sidelined more than he's been on the field.  This PED suspension doesn't help the team and as you've said earlier, we won't miss him that much.  I don't agree with you that we won't miss him due to him not being a significant contributor when he is on the field (that he has been) -- but, he hasn't been healthy enough to be on the field long enough to really warrant missing him.... violating the league substance abuse policy doesn't help this team and doesn't help Jones.  If I'm the coach/GM, Jones is on a very short leash (or perhaps already dismissed) for this.

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers.  I went through every game of the 2014 season, including the playoffs and came up with:

 

With Jones: 344 carries 1388 yards (worst game NE Playoff 40/177

Without Jones: 183 carries 900 yards worst game NE regular season 44/246.  And yes mine is based on entire games not per snap.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers.  I went through every game of the 2014 season, including the playoffs and came up with:

 

With Jones: 344 carries 1388 yards (worst game NE Playoff 40/177

Without Jones: 183 carries 900 yards worst game NE regular season 44/246.  And yes mine is based on entire games not per snap.

 

Those numbers are from the article I posted -- and they are when Jones is 'on the field', not in the line-up.... and prior to the AFC Championship game (in 2014-2015 playoffs).  The numbers in the article add up to 422 -- whereas ProFootballReference suggests opponents ran 423 times against us : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2014.htm

 

Your number of total 527 carries attempted against us (over 100 of what PFR and ESPN suggest) -- it may be that they are only taking regular season into account??

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Those numbers are from the article I posted -- and they are when Jones is 'on the field', not in the line-up.... and prior to the AFC Championship game (in 2014-2015 playoffs).  The numbers in the article add up to 422 -- whereas ProFootballReference suggests opponents ran 423 times against us : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2014.htm

 

Your number of total 527 carries attempted against us (over 100 of what PFR and ESPN suggest) -- it may be that they are only taking regular season into account??

Yeah, I kind of answered my own question as I was posting.  My numbers were games played, not a break down of when he was on the field.

 

Good stuff ColtsFanMikeC.  I will retract my early comment about Jones.  From the eye test during those games I was not impressed but some facts seem to point out he had more of an impact than I thought.

[Nadine]

On 7/23/2016 at 9:07 PM, WoolMagnet said:

We have some real saints on this forum I see.  It's nice some of you never do wrong or make mistakes.  I'm sure your mothers are very proud.

yea, cut him and string him up by his toes.  Its such a bad thing he did after all.

where were you perfect people when Mathis did the same?  

Maybe one of you should offer to be his mentor.  You know, to give him a role model, someone to aspire to be like.

  Thank god, Buddha, jehova and all his witnesses some here don't run the team.

have you even considered the cap, the fact he probably wasn't. Going to be ready game 1 anyway?

no, just throw him out the traitor!

Seriously guys, you need to R-E-L-A-X,  it's football for heavens sake.

with all the shootings, bombings, sickness in the world, and a joke of an election, you.d think you would have more to worry about.  Seriously.  It's only a game.

no wonder jag and Texan fans are laughing at us.  We embarras ourselves.

never happy, never satisfied.  The typical Colt fan.

 

keep the faith.

or at least try.

peace 

 

Could you not bring religion into this please?

I don't think it's out of line to not expect stupid mistakes to someone who has been paid but has never really played.  it's frustrating.  Should we all feel OK about this?

[JPFolks]

On 7/22/2016 at 6:47 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Just a hunch.....

 

But if I had to guess, I'd say Jones took PED's trying to heal faster so he'd be ready to go week #1.

 

Probably figured he wouldn't be ready without them,  might as well try to sneak past the blood tests even if taking them.         Probably figured he had little to lose except his pay checks.

 

In short,  he was probably trying to take one for the team if he had to.....

 

Yeah.... that's it... he was "taking one for the team..."  Just like his brother Chandler was "toking one for his team"

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

"* poor" job of checking supplements?  

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Are you kidding me this guy never sees the field now this !! I am shocked and have to wonder will he every play or be anything close to the the guy we thought we were getting?? I vote no unfortunately!! I was for the signing was and looking forward to seeing him this year, but now he is an after thought who can't be counted on IMO

[Coltsman1788]

Art Jones has been such a big let down. I was so excited when the Colts first made this signing.