Luck vs. Manning - first 55 games

[ColtsFanMikeC]

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

[jskinnz]

I have every faith that Luck is the real deal and there will be Super Bowls in Indy's future because of him.  But what is concerning to me is how many of his interceptions came in just 9 games last year, when he would seemingly be getting better with that.  

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

8 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

I have every faith that Luck is the real deal and there will be Super Bowls in Indy's future because of him.  But what is concerning to me is how many of his interceptions came in just 9 games last year, when he would seemingly be getting better with that.  

 

 

Everybody has a bad season remember back in 2010 when Peyton threw 11 picks in four games.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Everybody has a bad season remember back in 2010 when Peyton threw 11 picks in four games.

 

I certainly remember that.  He was killing me!

[krunk]

I think Luck will get back to his old self with the fixing of the O Line along with just the overall balancing out of the offense.  Once we are able to run consistently with Gore, Turbin, Ferguson/Trey Williams/Todman(whichever guy it is)   that will greatly assist in allowing Luck to stop feeling like he has to put the Superman cape on.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

29 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

The above chart doesn't show how many lost fumbles both qb's had. I'm guessing Luck has more but it would be interesting to see. Of course peyton's line wasbetter.

[RockThatBlue]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think Luck will get back to his old self with the fixing of the O Line along with just the overall balancing out of the offense.  Once we are able to run consistently with Gore, Turbin, Ferguson/Trey Williams/Todman(whichever guy it is)   that will greatly assist in allowing Luck to stop feeling like he has to put the Superman cape on.

Having a competent play caller should help Luck a ton too.

[Jason_]

dem's bof gud korturbaks

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

I have every faith that Luck is the real deal and there will be Super Bowls in Indy's future because of him.  But what is concerning to me is how many of his interceptions came in just 9 games last year, when he would seemingly be getting better with that.  

 

 

 

I have a strong feeling Luck wasn't healthy most of last year.  Several of his throws resulting in picks were bad judgement, but it also seemed like several of his throws were just bad throws (mostly high).  There were a lot of rumors that Luck was dealing with a bad shoulder (which would obviously result in bad throws).  Luck's line last year was also pretty bad, pressure could also force high throws.  Either way, Luck needs to reduce his INTs moving forward and I am pretty sure the coaches and his teammates are working hard with Luck to make sure he understands when a play is over to just keep the ball and avoid trying to make big plays.

 

57 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

The above chart doesn't show how many lost fumbles both qb's had. I'm guessing Luck has more but it would be interesting to see. Of course peyton's line wasbetter.

 

In his first 4 years, Luck lost 14 fumbles (32 total fumbles), and Peyton lost 9 fumbles (21 total fumbles).  (*I can't tell game-by-game stats, so if you're just looking at the first 55 regular season games, Peyton may have had less than that number).

 

Peyton did have a better line, and Peyton also wasn't a mobile QB.  The nature of the fact that Luck runs much more often is also likely to attribute to his increased fumbles (though, sliding and giving up on broken plays should also reduce this number). 

 

Certainly, Luck needs to continuously work on reducing his turnovers -- but I found myself pretty optimistic when I learned that he isn't doing so bad compared to the GOAT (Peyton).

 

Just for fun -- Luck's numbers for INTs in his first 4 years were (18, 9, 16, 12 -- 12 in 7 games is bad!!).  Tom Brady was not exactly a magnet with the ball to start his career either (12, 14, 12, 14 -- for a total of 52 INTs and he also had 43 fumbles with 18 lost). 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I think Luck will get back to his old self with the fixing of the O Line along with just the overall balancing out of the offense.  Once we are able to run consistently with Gore, Turbin, Ferguson/Trey Williams/Todman(whichever guy it is)   that will greatly assist in allowing Luck to stop feeling like he has to put the Superman cape on.

Agreed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

The Stats and Playoff wins speak for themselves. Andrew Luck has been Very Good overall, better than Good but not quite Great. Still Very Good. He isn't near the Turnover machine our Great Peyton Manning was in his 4 seasons either.

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

I'm a huge fan of both guys, so I'm not trying to discredit one over the other.  But one reason why people say Luck is turnover prone also has to do with his fumbles.  In his first 4 seasons, Luck has 32  fumbles (10 recovered = 31%), whereas Peyton had 21 (6 recovered = 29%).  Add the difference to the interceptions and you get nearly identical stats for the two of them.

 

It's actually interesting how similar their personal numbers are.  Wins and losses are team stats, but their TDs, yards, and turnovers are nearly identical.

[superrep1967]

5 hours ago, jskinnz said:

I have every faith that Luck is the real deal and there will be Super Bowls in Indy's future because of him.  But what is concerning to me is how many of his interceptions came in just 9 games last year, when he would seemingly be getting better with that.  

 

 

He was under a lot of pressure most of the time. He had rib and shoulder injuries as well. 

[RockThatBlue]

6 hours ago, Jason_S said:

dem's bof gud korturbaks

Dey wer gud korturbaks fer dem coats

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'm a huge fan of both guys, so I'm not trying to discredit one over the other.  But one reason why people say Luck is turnover prone also has to do with his fumbles.  In his first 4 seasons, Luck has 32  fumbles (10 recovered = 31%), whereas Peyton had 21 (6 recovered = 29%).  Add the difference to the interceptions and you get nearly identical stats for the two of them.

 

It's actually interesting how similar their personal numbers are.  Wins and losses are team stats, but their TDs, yards, and turnovers are nearly identical.

 

Luck only 'lost' 14 fumbles on 32 total fumbles.  Peyton lost 9 fumbles on 21 total fumbles.

 

So through 55 games Luck has 69 turnovers and Peyton had 76.  Pretty close, for sure.

 

As myself and others have pointed out, Luck has dealt with a worse line than Peyton had and Luck is also much more of a running QB, so I would expect him to have more fumbles.... as he gets better at sliding and accepting plays are broken, his fumble numbers should go down.   A better line should undoubtedly help that stat, as well.

 

Also, to be fair to Andrew -- he attempted 627, 570 and 616 passes in his first three seasons and was on pace to attempt 665 passes in season 4.  Peyton attempted 575, 533, 571, 547 passes in his first 4 years.  Dropping back leads to more opportunities for fumbles and INTs -- no only does Andrew have less turnovers per game than Peyton, but also significantly less turnovers per pass attempt/drop back.  I guess I should also point out that Andrew has had garbage in terms of run support since he has been here -- Peyton started his career with 2 HOF RBs (Faulk and Edge) and a very well-established balanced offense.  Luck has been forced to run a much more 1-dimensional offense, due to a crappy line and a below average stable of RBs (until Gore).

[chad72]

Luck has the leash of another 5 years to win a SB to be at least on par with Peyton as a Colt. It is just that our expectations have been set to a higher level by none other than Luck himself by wowing us as a rookie and taking us to the AFCCG within his first 3 years.

 

The big question is, do Grigson and Pagano get the entire 4 years tied to the hip? My gut tells me probably half that time to get to a SB might be Irsay's expectation.

[Synthetic]

 

Stats can be incredibly misleading. 

 

What that leaves out is that Manning had Polian who was a solid GM that built amazing teams around their quarterback. Compare that to Luck who is stuck with Grigson who has proven so far that he can't build a team. 

 

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's, meanwhile Luck's best coach was Bruce Arians for just 1 year. If Irsay don't regret letting Arians go, he will in the near future when this team is 8-8 at best for the next few years. 

[21isSuperman]

13 minutes ago, Bogie said:

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's

I dunno about that.  Jim Johnson had some incredible defenses in Philly during the 2000s.  Dick LeBeau, Belichick, Rex Ryan, and Wade Philips are all in that discussion too.  Some may want to throw in Marvin Lewis or Romeo Crennel, too.   While Dungy was one of the better defensive minds in the league, I wouldn't say he's the best of the 2000s

[ColtsSouljah]

I think the comparisons are interesting because I love both these guys. As Colts fan, I have no interest in arguing about who will end up with the better career.

I have every confidence that, if he stays healthy, Luck will be a superstar for years to come. However, as Colts fans know better than most, a single player, no matter how great, cannot win super bowls without tons of help. I hope Luck ends up with the defense Manning almost never had in Indy.

[AZColt11]

bof gud

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Stats can be incredibly misleading. 

 

What that leaves out is that Manning had Polian who was a solid GM that built amazing teams around their quarterback. Compare that to Luck who is stuck with Grigson who has proven so far that he can't build a team. 

 

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's, meanwhile Luck's best coach was Bruce Arians for just 1 year. If Irsay don't regret letting Arians go, he will in the near future when this team is 8-8 at best for the next few years. 

I agree Stats can be very misleading. With Luck it isn't the case though IMO, he put up most of those Stats while winning 11 games 3 years in a row while having great 4th Quarters in money time. It's not like those Stats are garbage time Stats playing on .500 teams. If a QB has the wins to go with the numbers than the Stats are legit and we aren't going 8-8 either, like I said I will bet you or anyone in here we will better than 8-8 but nobody seems to want to bet me, par for the course. 

[crazycolt1]

6 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Stats can be incredibly misleading. 

 

What that leaves out is that Manning had Polian who was a solid GM that built amazing teams around their quarterback. Compare that to Luck who is stuck with Grigson who has proven so far that he can't build a team. 

 

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's, meanwhile Luck's best coach was Bruce Arians for just 1 year. If Irsay don't regret letting Arians go, he will in the near future when this team is 8-8 at best for the next few years. 

As normal you get your daily dig in at Grigson. Must be heart wrenching to have that much hate for a general manager of a team you not even a fan of. To be possessed with giving that much attention to Grigson is unhealthy. Maybe some therapy would be in order?

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

As normal you get your daily dig in at Grigson. Must be heart wrenching to have that much hate for a general manager of a team you not even a fan of. To be possessed with giving that much attention to Grigson is unhealthy. Maybe some therapy would be in order?

I don't think Grigs is that bad. He could've done a better job of getting Lineman to protect Andrew over the last 3 seasons but in his 4 years he has many successful moves. Like Drafting Andrew instead of RGBust, Drafting TY, Moncrief and now Kelly + we got Davis for a bag of chips in a trade. I think Dorsett will pan out as well. He also re-signed Reggie Wayne instead of cutting him when he was cutting everyone of our older players in a rebuild move. Reggie was fantastic in 2012 and helped Andrew develop. Would I rank him a Great GM - No, but I don't think he stinks. Much like Pagano, I think he is Good but not Very Good or Great, Good. I wish we could've kept Arians but that would've made Grigs and Irsay look like Jackbutts after what Pagano went through and Pagano was only in his rookie season as Coaching so we couldn't just fire him and keep Arians. No organization would've done that. Like I have said anyone that wants to bet me that we wont go at least 9-7, I am here and not going anywhere. The bet are Avatar's based so money isn't involved or anything that is embarrassing but yet we have people get on here and say Colts will be 8-8 or 7-9 and finish 3rd in the Division?? Back it up then, this is a Colts Site so I will call people out that do so. Bogie isn't the only one that says 8-8 or worse, we have several in here. That is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but when I read some of these predictions I often wonder what is behind the reasoning. I still say we finish 10-6.  

[oldunclemark]

  The inherent unspoken theme to comparisons like this is that teams or athletes are 'on pace'

There is no such thing. QBs also don't have won-loss records  any more than cornerbacks do.

 . That's a fan and media concoction.

 No one could have predicted that Andrew would miss 9 games in 2015 or that Peyton would throw for 55 TDs in his 16th year......so this 55-game comparison stops in the middle of season 4 for Peyton, right?

That explains the 2 playoff losses for Manning while Luck has 3....

..as long as we understand than one game has nothing to do with the next one and there is no realistic accuracy in projecting Andrew's career after 4 years, its impressive what he's done 

 

[Restored]

10 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Stats can be incredibly misleading. 

 

What that leaves out is that Manning had Polian who was a solid GM that built amazing teams around their quarterback. Compare that to Luck who is stuck with Grigson who has proven so far that he can't build a team. 

 

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's, meanwhile Luck's best coach was Bruce Arians for just 1 year. If Irsay don't regret letting Arians go, he will in the near future when this team is 8-8 at best for the next few years. 

 

Glad to see you came out of the hole to take more subtle shots at Peyton Manning.

 

FYI, the Colts didn't become a perennial contender with "amazing teams" until 2003. In fact, the only amazing teams the Colts truly had in that era were the 2005 team and the 2006 team. 2007 was a solid team as well but lacked any semblance of a run game by the time the season was over (see Kenton Keith).

 

I liked Dungy a lot but he was not the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's IMO. Even if the Colts go 8-8, it'll still be better than what the Saints will accomplish with Drew Brees's massive contract preventing any semblance of a defense being built.

 

See you in about 3 months when you want to troll again.

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

11 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

bof gud

Dey gud, rely gud.

[Jason_]

14 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I dunno about that.  Jim Johnson had some incredible defenses in Philly during the 2000s.  Dick LeBeau, Belichick, Rex Ryan, and Wade Philips are all in that discussion too.  Some may want to throw in Marvin Lewis or Romeo Crennel, too.   While Dungy was one of the better defensive minds in the league, I wouldn't say he's the best of the 2000s

 

I don't even know if I could say Dungy was one of the better defensive minds in the league.  Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli had far better defensive success after parting ways with Dungy than Dungy had after parting ways with either of them.  I'd put every guy you listed above Dungy, and there are probably others as well.  

 

I do think Dungy was a pretty good Head Coach, but I'd only put him at above average as a DC.

[Jim H.]

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

  The inherent unspoken theme to comparisons like this is that teams or athletes are 'on pace'

There is no such thing. QBs also don't have won-loss records  any more than cornerbacks do.

 . That's a fan and media concoction.

 No one could have predicted that Andrew would miss 9 games in 2015 or that Peyton would throw for 55 TDs in his 16th year......so this 55-game comparison stops in the middle of season 4 for Peyton, right?

That explains the 2 playoff losses for Manning while Luck has 3....

..as long as we understand than one game has nothing to do with the next one and there is no realistic accuracy in projecting Andrew's career after 4 years, its impressive what he's done 

 

The voice of reason, as always, sir.  :^)

 

[krunk]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

I don't even know if I could say Dungy was one of the better defensive minds in the league.  Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli had far better defensive success after parting ways with Dungy than Dungy had after parting ways with either of them.  I'd put every guy you listed above Dungy, and there are probably others as well.  

 

I do think Dungy was a pretty good Head Coach, but I'd only put him at above average as a DC.

What about the years Dungy was the DC of the Minnesota Vikings?  That was a pretty good defense as well.  They almost always led the league in turnovers and other categories if my memory serves me right. John Randle, Chris Doleman and I believe Jack Del Rio amongst others

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

What about the years Dungy was the DC of the Minnesota Vikings.  That was a pretty good defense as well.  They almost always led the league in turnovers and other categories if my memory serves me right. John Randle, Chris Doleman and I believe Jack Del Rio amongst others

 

That defense was a slightly better version of the Dungy Colt defense...predicated entirely on pass rush with no real ability to stop even a decent power running team.  The Vikings were my favorite team at that time and I had the same frustrations with that team that I did the Dungy Colt teams.  If the offense didn't come out strong and get an immediate lead, the defense was damn near useless.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

16 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Stats can be incredibly misleading. 

 

What that leaves out is that Manning had Polian who was a solid GM that built amazing teams around their quarterback. Compare that to Luck who is stuck with Grigson who has proven so far that he can't build a team. 

 

Add in Tony Dungy too, possibly the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's, meanwhile Luck's best coach was Bruce Arians for just 1 year. If Irsay don't regret letting Arians go, he will in the near future when this team is 8-8 at best for the next few years. 

 

Dungy has Manning and Tom Moore to credit his success on defense to during his time with the Colts.  We pretty much never had a good run defense, which is a big part of the reason we struggled in the playoffs (especially if we had to play outside of the RCA Dome in real weather when Peyton and the offense struggled to get going). 

 

Freeney, although up there with the all-time great pass rushers, was extremely one-dimensional, as was Mathis.  I've said for a while now, if either of them make the HOF, the first person they should thank is Peyton.  If it wasn't for our serious offensive fire-power, our defenses would have been awful throughout pretty much the entire Dungy era.  Having the high-octane offense allowed the defense to be one-dimensional -- the vast majority of the time when our offense was struggling and other teams were able to run against us, our weaknesses showed and our D looked embarrassing. 

 

I like Dungy as a person, liked him as a head coach, and he should get credit for helping to make the 'Tampa 2' defensive scheme popular in the NFL.  However, our defense was almost 100% 'bend-don't-break' during Dungy's time here, was never dominating, and in games where our offense wasn't putting up the points to force the other team to pass (allowing Freeney and Mathis to pin their ears back), our defense more often than not looked pretty darn terrible.

 

If Dungy truly was the best (or next to the best) defensive mind of the 2000's (or if Polian built a better defense), I am pretty sure we would have won more than 1 SB.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, Restored said:

 

Glad to see you came out of the hole to take more subtle shots at Peyton Manning.

 

FYI, the Colts didn't become a perennial contender with "amazing teams" until 2003. In fact, the only amazing teams the Colts truly had in that era were the 2005 team and the 2006 team. 2007 was a solid team as well but lacked any semblance of a run game by the time the season was over (see Kenton Keith).

 

I liked Dungy a lot but he was not the best defensive minded coach of the 2000's IMO. Even if the Colts go 8-8, it'll still be better than what the Saints will accomplish with Drew Brees's massive contract preventing any semblance of a defense being built.

 

See you in about 3 months when you want to troll again.

 

Let's not get started about Mickey Loomis...

[throwing BBZ]

On 7/19/2016 at 2:24 PM, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

 

 Perhaps you are to young to remember that there was MUCH more physical contact by defenders early in Mannings career. The difference this makes from today's game is Immense.
 Mannings game was also Pass Heavy due to his Ego, but Luck IMO, makes a significantly higher number of Dumb throws at this stage of his career, especially considering how long it takes him to make a decision.
 Luck is barely .500 outside of the AFC South. His time for learning IS UP!!

[Cynjin]

26 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Perhaps you are to young to remember that there was MUCH more physical contact by defenders early in Mannings career. The difference this makes from today's game is Immense.
 Mannings game was also Pass Heavy due to his Ego, but Luck IMO, makes a significantly higher number of Dumb throws at this stage of his career, especially considering how long it takes him to make a decision.
 Luck is barely .500 outside of the AFC South. His time for learning IS UP!!

 

Perhaps you are too young to remember that Manning had a much better O-line and running game.

[BOTT]

29 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Perhaps you are to young to remember that there was MUCH more physical contact by defenders early in Mannings career. The difference this makes from today's game is Immense.
 Mannings game was also Pass Heavy due to his Ego, but Luck IMO, makes a significantly higher number of Dumb throws at this stage of his career, especially considering how long it takes him to make a decision.
 Luck is barely .500 outside of the AFC South. His time for learning IS UP!!

Tom Moore and Howard Mudd >>>>>>>>>>> Turd Hamilton and Some Dude

[21isSuperman]

7 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

I don't even know if I could say Dungy was one of the better defensive minds in the league.  Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli had far better defensive success after parting ways with Dungy than Dungy had after parting ways with either of them.  I'd put every guy you listed above Dungy, and there are probably others as well.  

 

I do think Dungy was a pretty good Head Coach, but I'd only put him at above average as a DC.

The thing I really don't like about his defense is that it needs very specific types of players, and unless you had the perfect pieces, it could all go to shambles.  You need corners who can tackle, you need speedy linebackers, you need a defensive line that can rush the passer well enough so that it doesn't require blitzing, you need a John Lynch or Bob Sanders type of safety.  If you are somehow able to collect all of those pieces together, and keep guys healthy, you can have a great defense (for example, the 2007 Colts).  But I think it quickly became outdated when teams figured out they could just put in bigger, stronger players and push around the smaller, faster defensive guys.

[21isSuperman]

11 hours ago, Restored said:

 lacked any semblance of a run game by the time the season was over (see Kenton Keith).

I read this and had horrible flashbacks of his brick hands.  The horror....

[21isSuperman]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Let's not get started about Mickey Loomis...

I've been fairly critical of Grigson during his tenure here, but one place he's done some exceptional work in my opinion has been in structuring contracts.  You mentioning Loomis just made me think of this.  The Saints had to make a ton of cuts in the last few years because of the insane contracts they handed out, but Grigson has done a really good job of making sure the contracts he gives out are team friendly.

[NewColtsFan]

On July 19, 2016 at 11:24 AM, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/17171/former-colts-center-jeff-saturday-sees-traits-of-peyton-manning-in-andrew-luck

 

I found this to be pretty interesting from the above article..... granted, we're in a different, more 'passer-friendly' era, but Luck's had a heckuva start to his career.  Many like to call him a turnover machine, but the stat that jumped out at me the most was 12 less INTs than Peyton in the first 55 games.

 

QB Comparison

A look at how Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning fared in the first 55 starts of their career:

Stat	Andrew Luck	Peyton Manning
Yards	14,838	14,111
TD passes	101	98
Interceptions	55	67
Record	35-20	30-25
Playoff Record	3-3	0-2

 

Luck has had a great first 3 years (we'll throw out the injured 4th year)....  and he's on his way to a Hall of Fame career.

 

But, as I've said since I arrived here 4 years ago,   I don't see Luck EVER being as good as Peyton Manning.

 

That does't Luck and the Colts can't win a Super Bowl.   (Maybe even two)    Or that Luck won't go on to get into the Hall of Fame.        But I don't see Luck ever reaching Manning's success level.     I just don't see it.

 

Luck should be great.     Just not THAT great.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

38 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I've been fairly critical of Grigson during his tenure here, but one place he's done some exceptional work in my opinion has been in structuring contracts.  You mentioning Loomis just made me think of this.  The Saints had to make a ton of cuts in the last few years because of the insane contracts they handed out, but Grigson has done a really good job of making sure the contracts he gives out are team friendly.

Great point. That is one thing I left out regarding Grigs, his contract structuring has been great.