Does Brady cheating remove him from G.O.A.T. conversation?

[Yehoodi]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 9:42 AM, CR91 said:

I don't think so, but I do think history will look at them differently compared to say a Walsh Montana

 

As BOTT has already mentioned, and to name a few.  1) Montana's WR Rice admitted to using stickem when it was already illegal when he arrived in the league, 2) Montana's OL used silicone on their jersey and were caught doing so, and 3) Parcells accused the 49ers of making their headsets go out and thus both sides could not use headsets.  This was at a time when the 49ers used to script their first 15 or so plays and thus did not need headsets; and interestingly, after the first 15 plays or so, their headsets would work again. However the other teams had to go without headsets for the first qtr or so without scripted plays.

 

And you can see from your own post, that stuff like the above does not effect some's view of a legacy.

 

All teams try to get an edge and many of them are caught doing so, and lot more teams are caught than we think/remember, one just needs to have a good memory.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

As BOTT has already mentioned, and to name a few.  1) Montana's WR Rice admitted to using stickem when it was already illegal when he arrived in the league, 2) Montana's OL used silicone on their jersey and were caught doing so, and 3) Parcells accused the 49ers of making their headsets go out and thus both sides could not use headsets.  This was at a time when the 49ers used to script their first 15 or so plays and thus did not need headsets; and interestingly, after the first 15 plays or so, their headsets would work again. However the other teams had to go without headsets for the first qtr or so without scripted plays.

 

And you can see from your own post, that stuff like the above does not effect some's view of a legacy.

 

All teams try to get an edge and many of them are caught doing so, and lot more teams are caught than we think/remember, one just needs to have a good memory.

 

I am sure other teams have cheated as well but just haven't been caught.

[CR91]

25 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

As BOTT has already mentioned, and to name a few.  1) Montana's WR Rice admitted to using stickem when it was already illegal when he arrived in the league, 2) Montana's OL used silicone on their jersey and were caught doing so, and 3) Parcells accused the 49ers of making their headsets go out and thus both sides could not use headsets.  This was at a time when the 49ers used to script their first 15 or so plays and thus did not need headsets; and interestingly, after the first 15 plays or so, their headsets would work again. However the other teams had to go without headsets for the first qtr or so without scripted plays.

 

And you can see from your own post, that stuff like the above does not effect some's view of a legacy.

 

All teams try to get an edge and many of them are caught doing so, and lot more teams are caught than we think/remember, one just needs to have a good memory.

 

 

I'm not taking away any achievement from the patriots. I think BB is an absolute genius of this game and a first ballot hall of famer. I just think his legacy might be tarnished for all the extra baggage

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not taking away any achievement from the patriots. I think BB is an absolute genius of this game and a first ballot hall of famer. I just think his legacy might be tarnished for all the extra baggage

I agree. I think it's tarnished in the publics eye when you combine this with SpyGate but I still think Tom is a Top 5 QB of all-time. Belichick is a Top 5 HC of all-time as well.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

As BOTT has already mentioned, and to name a few.  1) Montana's WR Rice admitted to using stickem when it was already illegal when he arrived in the league, 2) Montana's OL used silicone on their jersey and were caught doing so, and 3) Parcells accused the 49ers of making their headsets go out and thus both sides could not use headsets.  This was at a time when the 49ers used to script their first 15 or so plays and thus did not need headsets; and interestingly, after the first 15 plays or so, their headsets would work again. However the other teams had to go without headsets for the first qtr or so without scripted plays.

 

And you can see from your own post, that stuff like the above does not effect some's view of a legacy.

 

All teams try to get an edge and many of them are caught doing so, and lot more teams are caught than we think/remember, one just needs to have a good memory.

 

 Because another team does something against the rules does that make the Patriots any less guilty? Is having the mindset of other teams do it so it makes what the Patriots have done just fine? You are a Patriots fan. You will make any excuse from what your team does to draw attention. It's called deflection. ( not to be confused with deflation)

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

So was a bunch of other things people were doing to this day like steroids. Dlineman have the freedom to basically do anything to olineman. The only thing olinemen can do is chop block and even that's banned now

So,why are people whining about a slightly underinflated ball?

[CR91]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

So,why are people whining about a slightly underinflated ball?

 

Because you got caught

[Yehoodi]

9 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not taking away any achievement from the patriots. I think BB is an absolute genius of this game and a first ballot hall of famer. I just think his legacy might be tarnished for all the extra baggage

 

It is tough to say CR91, I think time will tell.  I think the pats success after Spygate being not that dissimilar than before Spygate helps mitigates the narrative imo, well the one regarding Spygate.   

 

Sometimes too if the narrative at the time things happen is bigger, it can make the action seem worse than what is otherwise is based on how others were treated.  Without 24 hour news cycles and social media, things were different back in the 1980s and before.   Sometimes even now things are treated differently.  Look at Ray Rice, who regrettably hit his wife in a elevator, and is run out of town on a rail, every other player in the history of the NFL that committed domestic violence only got two games. 

 

In 2009, the Jets kicker and his crones on the sidelines were caught tampering with balls, they were suspended and nothing to the team or kicker, not sure if you can find a contemporaneous article on the matter.  In 2015 Brady is mixed up with messing with balls and it leads the national news on all three stations and we get 600 or so days of deflate gate.

 

Again CR91, time will tell, we will likely get a better idea 10 15, 20 years from now.  You may very well be right.   I do not thing it will tarnish his legacy, but we will see.

[BOTT]

49 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Because you got caught

Or they are full of %

[Yehoodi]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

 Because another team does something against the rules does that make the Patriots any less guilty? Is having the mindset of other teams do it so it makes what the Patriots have done just fine? You are a Patriots fan. You will make any excuse from what your team does to draw attention. It's called deflection. ( not to be confused with deflation)

 

Crazycolt1, I am not sure if you saw the context of my post, I was responding to CR91's post regarding the pats not being viewed in the same light at the 49ers, Walsh and Montana.  I was just pointing out that they should be viewed in a similar light as those 49ers as those same 49ers committed acts not that dissimilar than things the pats are being accused of doing.  

 

My post was merely to compare those two teams and not the pats with other teams  

[Yehoodi]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am sure other teams have cheated as well but just haven't been caught.

 

I think a lot of teams stretch and break the rules.  And also, I think there are some teams that simply follows the rules for the most part. 

 

And yes it can be bad optics if one get caught in the act of doing something.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Crazycolt1, I am not sure if you saw the context of my post, I was responding to CR91's post regarding the pats not being viewed in the same light at the 49ers, Walsh and Montana.  I was just pointing out that they should be viewed in a similar light as those 49ers as those same 49ers committed acts not that dissimilar than things the pats are being accused of doing.  

 

My post was merely to compare those two teams and not the pats with other teams  

I guess you missed my intent on poking a little fun at you.

[CR91]

10 hours ago, BOTT said:

Or they are full of %

 

Full of nonsense or not, it got Brady suspended and cost the pats a first round draft pick

[dynasty13]

On 7/21/2016 at 4:40 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Of course there is no right answer to who is the greatest of all-time. Some think Dan Marino is and he never even won a SB, some would take Favre to the grave! it's definitely opinion based. Regarding the two Patriots employees, I would've loved to hear their story under oath. That would've cleared up a lot for me. I don't think they would risk lying under oath. So had they said Tom knew nothing about what we were doing under oath and it couldn't be proven otherwise than I would accept that. I just find it hard to believe Tom didn't know what he was doing. Then once the investigation started he just looked more guilty IMO, destroying his phone, etc..

 

Why don't you accept what Tom Brady said under oath, then? 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Why don't you accept what Tom Brady said under oath, then? 

I cant answer for 2006 but till everyone involved testifies there is a reason to think Tom is not truthful. You know, the guys like the 'deflator'. The two Patriot employees who were involved who have yet to open their mouth? Neither one of them has said a word on if Tom is telling the truth. Question? Why?

[Yehoodi]

16 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you missed my intent on poking a little fun at you.

 . . . .yes I did . . . .

[WoolMagnet]

I'd give my opinion but i don't wanna get banned.

funny tho how the Pats fans scurried in to reply.

good thing THIS FORUM doesn't block users with the "wrong" area code like a certain forum in the northeast.  Kinda funny that there are at least 31 area codes not allowed in to that forum.

that "trick" is so Boston. If you don't like the standard or norm, make your own rules.

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I'd give my opinion but i don't wanna get banned.

funny tho how the Pats fans scurried in to reply.

good thing THIS FORUM doesn't block users with the "wrong" area code like a certain forum in the northeast.  Kinda funny that there are at least 31 area codes not allowed in to that forum.

that "trick" is so Boston. If you don't like the standard or norm, make your own rules.

So why would you want to go to another teams forum?

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

So why would you want to go to another teams forum?

I dont. Have no desire.  Just commenting on the way THEY operate u there in chowda country

im in central pa so i doubt i'd be blocked

[2006Coltsbestever]

A friend of mine asked me a question regarding Peyton yesterday. He ask me, if Peyton was ever found guilty of taking HGH would you take him out of the GOAT convo? My answer was NO because he was accused of it after his injury. Basically in his Denver playing days. Whatever he did as a Colt has nothing to do with what happened after he was injured and joined the Broncos. Just his Colts career alone puts him in the GOAT convo with 4 League MVP's, 2 SB appearances, and a World Championship! He still had a season where he threw for 49 TD's as well which was 2004. So my answer is NO. People can criticize his career with the Broncos if it ever came out he did HGH. They can say his 55 TD season is tainted or his last SB win is but it has nothing to do with his Colts career. I am proud of the fact our 2006 Championship team wasn't accused of anything and we won fair and square, even the season we got accused of piping in noise that was 2005, not 2006. Tom on the other hand has been on teams accused of SpyGate and DeflateGate where he and the team was found guilty by the league of both. If the league punishes a team than the league says your guilty.