CB3 Battle?

[AKB]

A lot of people are probably fairly happy that Greg Toler will no longer be a liability in the secondary. However, I feel as if quite a few fans probably are still slightly concerned with our secondary; rather they would like to admit it or not. The biggest question mark is obviously the slot cornerback position. Everyone knows what we get from Darius Butler, he is sufficient to say the least, but nothing special in the nickel/slot corner position. We also know that we have a cornerback who many were excited about, but had an injury plagued 2015 season, and who we saw little of. Not to mention, the recent free agent pickup of Patrick Robinson who is known to be reliable in the slot as well. 

 

Are we going to see Smith beat out Butler for the CB3 position? Will we perhaps see Smith on the outside, with Robinson on the inside occasionally? Perhaps Butler will sit behind Davis and Robinson, and smith will be used as a relief corner, and Quarters package CB, 

 

This is all of course just play on possibilities until training camp, but what does Colts nation think of our CB3 situation?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Robinson will be our #2.

Butler will be our #3 slot cb.

Smith will be doing well if he makes the final cut and makes the team. Hope he does and develop because secondary sure can use a good corner, even if it's just for depth.

[AKB]

You really think they would cut smith after one season? Especially with such little play time?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

If his 2nd training camp/preseason goes like his first one it's possible.

[twfish]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

If his 2nd training camp/preseason goes like his first one it's possible.

Your really on the hate train with smith aren't you?

[akcolt]

We aren't cutting Smith that's about as likely to happen as the poster who wanted us to trade up for Garrett in nexts years draft. Hopefully Smith can get the knee right and have a solid camp and preseason. He could still emerge as the CB3. 

 

Butler was really bad last year. I don't think his roster spot is a given. If he's unseated as the slot corner he doesn't offer a whole lot on ST's  and can't play outside to save his life.

 

I'll be watching the guys we picked up at the end of last year Mitchel and Glover-Wright both have the size to play outside. I also like UDFA Milton and Winston Rose. They too have the measurables you look for. Pagano has some young guys to work his magic with. I'm excited to see what Rose can do. 

[AKB]

I would really like to see smith emerge as a reliable cb3

[Bravo]

How people expect Smith to even compete for the #3 spot is crazy to me!

 

Smith had a terrible spring training last year (the two I attended he was awful) , got little playing time and got put on IR. 

 

Hes had no practice this year and had a "setback" with his knee.

 

I would be happy if he could but I see him as a #4 or probably #5 is more like it. Lol

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, bravo4460 said:

How people expect Smith to even compete for the #3 spot is crazy to me!

 

Smith had a terrible spring training last year (the two I attended he was awful) , got little playing time and got put on IR. 

 

Hes had no practice this year and had a "setback" with his knee.

 

I would be happy if he could but I see him as a #4 or probably #5 is more like it. Lol

 

 

Not to be argumentative but isn't that what backup player do?

[Bravo]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Not to be argumentative but isn't that what backup player do?

 

I mean yes, Other posters are making it sound like Smith is ready to take Butlers position right now! Lol

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

 

I mean yes, Other posters are making it sound like Smith is ready to take Butlers position right now! Lol

 It will be nice to have at least something real to see come TC and pre season. It's been a long off season.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

 

I mean yes, Other posters are making it sound like Smith is ready to take Butlers position right now! Lol

 

I think people are just trying to be optimistic about Smith.  How long has it been since the Colts drafted, trained, and retained a good CB1 or even CB2?  A loooooong time.  We would be happy if we could just draft, train, and retain a good CB3 at this point, which, sad to say, is the best case scenario right now.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

21 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I think people are just trying to be optimistic about Smith.  How long has it been since the Colts drafted, trained, and retained a good CB1 or even CB2?  A loooooong time.  We would be happy if we could just draft, train, and retain a good CB3 at this point, which, sad to say, is the best case scenario right now.

I agree with this as of right now I see Smith at the #4 CB position with the hopes he can push for the #3/slot by season's end.

[JPFolks]

13 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

A lot of people are probably fairly happy that Greg Toler will no longer be a liability in the secondary. However, I feel as if quite a few fans probably are still slightly concerned with our secondary; rather they would like to admit it or not. The biggest question mark is obviously the slot cornerback position. Everyone knows what we get from Darius Butler, he is sufficient to say the least, but nothing special in the nickel/slot corner position. We also know that we have a cornerback who many were excited about, but had an injury plagued 2015 season, and who we saw little of. Not to mention, the recent free agent pickup of Patrick Robinson who is known to be reliable in the slot as well. 

 

Are we going to see Smith beat out Butler for the CB3 position? Will we perhaps see Smith on the outside, with Robinson on the inside occasionally? Perhaps Butler will sit behind Davis and Robinson, and smith will be used as a relief corner, and Quarters package CB, 

 

This is all of course just play on possibilities until training camp, but what does Colts nation think of our CB3 situation?

With Smith hurt again, I see us as in big trouble against teams like Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver and Oakland who all have solid to great WR corps.  W4e really havre 1 starting top notch CB, 1 questionable guy better suited to be the nickle but playing #2 for us and an aging and limited Butler in the 3 spot.  Smith is hurt and looks more like a bust than a starting #2 CB.  Who else is there really?  We should have signed another veteran CB, or found another CB in the draft to follow our youth movement which I agree with.  One injury to Davis and we can forget any SB run.  It's probably the weakest position group (though our OLB's suck badly as well).  We drafted 4 O Linemen and other than Kelly, I haven't seen any indication that one of the other three will compete to start.  We should have spent one of those picks on a CB.  Butler is ancient and should have been replaced (or at least had more competition) from a rookie this year.  Smith is as likely to be a wash-out as a replacement for Butler based on his status.  

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I think people are just trying to be optimistic about Smith.  How long has it been since the Colts drafted, trained, and retained a good CB1 or even CB2?  A loooooong time.  We would be happy if we could just draft, train, and retain a good CB3 at this point, which, sad to say, is the best case scenario right now.

 

 Smith being our 3 does not have to mean he gets the job by our 1st game.
 I hope he is competing for it by oh say, our bye week. Go D`Joun!

[AKB]

I don't think anyone has seen enough of smith to give him a fair analysis.

[Archer]

Honestly, I can't remember the Colts coming to TC with as many good depth possibilities as they have this year.  Smith, Jalil Brown, Mitchel, Butler, and Glover-Wright are as good a group of back-ups as we've had.  No one's an All-Pro, but still...

[COLTS449]

To say a 3rd round pick from last year, who's barley gotten on the field may not make the final 53 is absurd. No offense, but it is what it is. But the thing is. None of us really know what Smith will turn out to be. Darius Butler was really good for us there for a year or two, but he's really fallen off a cliff the last couple seasons. Hopefully Smith comes in and takes Butler's spot as our nickel, but I mean again. We haven't seen enough of him to really know. But like I said, I hope he takes Butler's spot and becomes one of the better slot corner's in the league. But all I know is unless something crazy happens he's making the final 53.

[AKB]

Does smith have the ability to play on the outside?

[Hoosiernsavga]

WOW, Smith has as much of a chance getting cut as any of us posters have of making the Colts roster! 

I understand that his injuries definitely are not looking good .... "But Cum On Man!" 

[Hoosiernsavga]

Butler will start off in the slot. But I don't think he will finish the season as the #3 cb! 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Smith is making the roster unless there is something unknown that we just don't know about him.

 

The worst that happens is that his knee forces the team to put him on the IR and he's lost for the year.    But cutting him?     Seems like the longest of long shots.

 

Hopefully his knee is better at camp and he competes for CB4.     Hopefully Butler is improved after a poor year last year and does a good job at CB3.

 

 

[krunk]

I think Mitchel is going to be the biggest competition to Butler for that nickel spot to be honest. Smith is competition too, but I'm uncertain if he will be healthy enough for the start of training camp. Even if he was completely healthy I still like Mitchel a little more than Smith. I feel Mitchel played against greater competition and I like his size, speed, and tackling ability amongst other intangibles. If he can quiet the durability concerns I like him a little bit more than Smith. If they are both healthy and play well during the preseason I could see Butler being let go. But for quality depth purposes I still see a scenario where we may keep all 3.

[akcolt]

14 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

 

I mean yes, Other posters are making it sound like Smith is ready to take Butlers position right now! Lol

If we get the same Butler we saw the last year. The one who opposing QB's had 118 QB rating against while targeting him in the slot. I think we all agree he is awful on the outside. Butler's job is there for the taking and maybe his roster spot.

 

Smith will be at the top of the list. You act like he just missed training camp and the preseason. He missed the majority of the time we spent running around in shorts. Of course it would have been better if he participated. His shot at the CB3 wasn't lost in June. He may have missed an opportunity to impress and maybe be the front runner but nothing more.

 

He got his feet wet last year. He took some lumps. Who knows when the knee started bothering him but he didn't look great at any point. He still gained some valuable experience. 

 

Everything I have seen says he will be ready to go in Anderson and on into the preseason. That's when jobs are going to be won not  in June.

 

You can laugh at the notion that Smith has a shot at winning the job. Personally I think it's more amusing you are ready to throw dirt on a guy's grave in June. Butler's performance last year was awful. We will have guys lined up to take that spot. Smith is one of those guys. I think Mitchel Glover-Wright and a dark horse that I think will surprise is Winston Rose.

 

There is a far greater chance that Butler is cut than Smith. It might be time to put the shovel down for a minute .

[akcolt]

5 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Does smith have the ability to play on the outside?

I think he does. He doesn't have the ideal size you want out there but most everything I have read says yes. He needs to prove it. 

 

We have some interesting guys in camp this year. Mitchel and Glover-Wright have the measurables. We added both at the end of last season. Then UDFA's Milton and Rose both have the look of guys who can play the boundary. Let's not forget the camp/preseason Brown had last season. He wasn't able to carry it over to the regular season and ended up on the IR week 4. Maybe another off season with Chuck brings it out.

 

Chuck in my opinion has a lot of young talent to work with this year. I think its easily the most talent he's had a CB since he took over. That's not hard to do. I think we could end up with a solid group. The guys I really want to see are Smith Mitchel and Winston Rose. I  like Milton too. He probably the rawest of the 4. Rose couId be a find.  

[akcolt]

6 hours ago, Archer said:

Honestly, I can't remember the Colts coming to TC with as many good depth possibilities as they have this year.  Smith, Jalil Brown, Mitchel, Butler, and Glover-Wright are as good a group of back-ups as we've had.  No one's an All-Pro, but still...

That is exactly what I just posted. I really like UDFA Winston Rose too. The CB A Milton from Georgia Tech is a special teams wrecking ball. I think he blocked 7 kicks last 2 yrs. I want to see what he can do too. We have guys with length and speed. We need Chuck to work his magic. He said he's going to take on the role of an assistant secondary coach this season. 

[crazycolt1]

26 minutes ago, akcolt said:

That is exactly what I just posted. I really like UDFA Winston Rose too. The CB A Milton from Georgia Tech is a special teams wrecking ball. I think he blocked 7 kicks last 2 yrs. I want to see what he can do too. We have guys with length and speed. We need Chuck to work his magic. He said he's going to take on the role of an assistant secondary coach this season. 

You have me interested in the couple of guys mentioned and I will look at the tape of them. I do agree with your assessment of the talent depth and hopefully coaching can bring out some of that talent on the field. That in itself was one of the problems we have had in the past was having depth. The talent level from the starters to the next tier players dropped off quite a bit.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, akcolt said:

If we get the same Butler we saw the last year. The one who opposing QB's had 118 QB rating against while targeting him in the slot. I think we all agree he is awful on the outside. Butler's job is there for the taking and maybe his roster spot.

 

Smith will be at the top of the list. You act like he just missed training camp and the preseason. He missed the majority of the time we spent running around in shorts. Of course it would have been better if he participated. His shot at the CB3 wasn't lost in June. He may have missed an opportunity to impress and maybe be the front runner but nothing more.

 

He got his feet wet last year. He took some lumps. Who knows when the knee started bothering him but he didn't look great at any point. He still gained some valuable experience. 

 

Everything I have seen says he will be ready to go in Anderson and on into the preseason. That's when jobs are going to be won not  in June.

 

You can laugh at the notion that Smith has a shot at winning the job. Personally I think it's more amusing you are ready to throw dirt on a guy's grave in June. Butler's performance last year was awful. We will have guys lined up to take that spot. Smith is one of those guys. I think Mitchel Glover-Wright and a dark horse that I think will surprise is Winston Rose.

 

There is a far greater chance that Butler is cut than Smith. It might be time to put the shovel down for a minute .

Im not going to stay too long on the Butler topic but I will say this. All of our cornerbacks took a step back last year including Vontae. A lot of it I feel was a function of being on the field way too much, which was directly related to that trash of an offense we had and also that terrible pass rush. To me I think those played a very heavy role in the numbers. I think they are more fed up with Butler not being able to play on the outside than anything else. Same reason New England gave him the pink slip.

[Dark Superman]

I give the slight edge to Butler since he's been on our team a few years now and Smith pretty much spent the entire season injured last season.

 

If Smith can stay healthy, the guy was a play-maker in college. Hopefully he can actually manage to stay on the field this season.

[zibby43]

Butler had a really average (tempted to say below average, overall) season last year.  Prior to the season, I was very comfortable with Butler as the slot/nickel in the Colts' sub packages.

 

Butler had to be moved outside to fill in to start the season.  He was torched there early and often.  I think that really damaged his confidence.  Furthermore, I don't think Butler was ever really healthy last year.

 

Butler did manage to nab the AFC Defensive Player of the Week title in week 9 (picked off Manning in that game . . . in addition to allowing 3 completed passes out of 4 attempts).

 

I truly hope Butler returns to his pre-2015 form in 2016.

[Bravo]

2 hours ago, akcolt said:

If we get the same Butler we saw the last year. The one who opposing QB's had 118 QB rating against while targeting him in the slot. I think we all agree he is awful on the outside. Butler's job is there for the taking and maybe his roster spot.

 

Smith will be at the top of the list. You act like he just missed training camp and the preseason. He missed the majority of the time we spent running around in shorts. Of course it would have been better if he participated. His shot at the CB3 wasn't lost in June. He may have missed an opportunity to impress and maybe be the front runner but nothing more.

 

He got his feet wet last year. He took some lumps. Who knows when the knee started bothering him but he didn't look great at any point. He still gained some valuable experience. 

 

Everything I have seen says he will be ready to go in Anderson and on into the preseason. That's when jobs are going to be won not  in June.

 

You can laugh at the notion that Smith has a shot at winning the job. Personally I think it's more amusing you are ready to throw dirt on a guy's grave in June. Butler's performance last year was awful. We will have guys lined up to take that spot. Smith is one of those guys. I think Mitchel Glover-Wright and a dark horse that I think will surprise is Winston Rose.

 

There is a far greater chance that Butler is cut than Smith. It might be time to put the shovel down for a minute .

 

In my original post I stated I hope Smith comes in and does play well! I was very excited for him when we drafted him. Still am. However I'm not sure he would be any better than Butler at this point. Only way he is better at all is in potential. He's had way more downs than ups so far in his NFL career obviously. Although potential has been used too much around here. Need production from that so called "potential" that is all over the Colts roster for once. I agree though, training camp is where the position battles are won and lost.

[Coltfreak]

On 6/19/2016 at 3:38 AM, bravo4460 said:

How people expect Smith to even compete for the #3 spot is crazy to me!

 

Smith had a terrible spring training last year (the two I attended he was awful) , got little playing time and got put on IR. 

 

Hes had no practice this year and had a "setback" with his knee.

 

I would be happy if he could but I see him as a #4 or probably #5 is more like it. Lol

 

 

I think you might be begging for Smith to be the #2 corner after you see Robinson out there.     

 

Robinson at CB2 is like Dwight Freeney at OLB.

 

Put him in the slot Butler did not play well last yr.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

I think you might be begging for Smith to be the #2 corner after you see Robinson out there.     

 

Robinson at CB2 is like Dwight Freeney at OLB.

 

Put him in the slot Butler did not play well last yr.

Some people just can't let stuff go. Still holding the guy responsible for his rookie and first couple years. That guy did not play slot exclusively last year. His numbers are good so let the guy grow. You don't even know how the corners will be played in this scheme. A lot of these comments on Robinson sound like all that unwarranted negative hype that was spread around when we picked up Lowery. Turned out Lowery was pretty solid. I dont think the Freeney comparison is fair.

[Coltfreak]

Just now, krunk said:

Some people just can't let stuff go. Still holding the guy responsible for his rookie and first couple years. That guy did not play slot exclusively last year. His numbers are good so let the guy grow. You don't even know how the corners will be played in this scheme. A lot of these comments on Robinson sound like all that unwarranted negative hype that was spread around when we picked up Lowery. Turned out Lowery was pretty solid. I dont think the Freeney comparison is fair.

 

ah Hell......Here we go again..... I agree you cant let it go.

 

Sorry I can't get on the bandwagon when I hear people with much better knowledge saying he is Toler part 2

 

BTW Lowery was average

 

At any rate I will happily admit if I am wrong.

[AKB]

I do not think that lowery was amazing by any means, but he did what we asked him to do during the year. 

[Chucklez]

Lowery didnt get burned... at least not enough that any particularly bad play comes to mind..... That made him an upgrade over Landry.... By no means was he outstanding, but he did his job I thought.

[krunk]

Another guy who has less chance to win the nickel spot but I suppose is in the competition is Darius White from Cal. He seems to have some good measurables at 6'0" 180. Played a little inside and outside at Cal it seems.

[AKB]

When was white picked up?

[krunk]

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

When was white picked up?

He's been there the whole time.  Nobody has said anything about him though. I believe he came in with the initial batch of UDFA.

[Coffeedrinker]

I think Smith, when healthy, is the primary outside back up.  I think the person that will surprise in camp and take over the #3 CB spot is UDFA, Daniel Davie from Nebraska.  He had some injuries that limited him to 6 games last year but based on his coverage skills in those games and his production in 2014, he probably would have been a 3rd-4th round pick if he had stayed healthy.  He is kind of unique for the slot CB because he's tall (6'1") and lanky but he has the agility and acceleration to play the position.  He is also a solid tackler against the running game.