The Trouble With Andrew Luck

[Restored]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/25/nfl-andrew-luck-indianapolis-colts

 

Good piece that delves into some of the issues (some of which aren't new to us) the Colts and Andrew Luck have had. The biggest point being how Chud's offense must work to mask weaknesses and capitalize on strengths unlike the previous system.

[Smonroe]

Good article, I also enjoyed the teen wolf comments by the readers. 

 

Chud did call the type offense when MH started.  Matt was a smart QB, like Luck.  But he couldn't throw accurately more than about 20 yards.  Fit him perfectly.  

 

So basically run that pass offense and mix in a few long passes.   

[Chucklez]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Good article, I also enjoyed the teen wolf comments by the readers. 

 

Chud did call the type offense when MH started.  Matt was a smart QB, like Luck.  But he couldn't throw accurately more than about 20 yards.  Fit him perfectly.  

 

So basically run that pass offense and mix in a few long passes.   

And run the football..... God, do we need to be able to run the damned football....

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

And run the football..... God, do we need to be able to run the damned football....

It is still mind boggling to think in the 55 Regular Season games that Andrew Luck has played the Colts have only had 1 game where a RB went over 100 Yards. In the 6 Playoff games Andrew has played the Colts have had 0. In 61 games, Andrew still is 38-23 as a starter despite that shocking fact.

[Superman]

Way too many generalizations and inaccuracies for me. 

 

1) It's not really true that Hilton struggles against press coverage. He actually eats press coverage up most of the time he faces it, which is why rarely anyone tries to press him. This is just the typical knock against a smallish receiver -- he's only 5'10", so he has trouble with physical coverage. Yeah, ask Brandon Browner about that... The only strategy that slows down Hilton is to bracket him with a corner underneath and a safety over the top, and if the only way to stop a receiver is to double him, then he qualifies as a true #1. If jamming him at the line was all you had to do to stop him, teams would jam him.

 

2) Acting like Gore and Turbin can't produce in the passing game is dumb. Gore has averaged 34 catches/year over his career, with over 8 yards/catch. He's older, so maybe he won't get that many receiving opportunities, but the Colts have a handful of younger guys who have the pass catching skill set and who will compete for the RB3/4 spots on the roster. If the Colts want to utilize backs in the passing game, they'll be able to.

 

3) Acting like Dwayne Allen isn't capable of producing as a pass catcher is also ridiculous. He's not Jimmy Graham, but he's been an all over the field pass catcher since Clemson. Line him up wherever you want. No reason he can't be a reasonably high volume pass catcher, especially since he's now the undisputed TE1, not sharing the role with Fleener. The writer compares Allen to Martellus Bennett, who had a 90 catch season two years ago, but averages 43 catches/year. Allen had 45 catches as a rookie. He is the droid you're looking for.

 

I agree with the overall premise of the article. Luck has some work to do, but the offense has to evolve in order to take better use the weapons we have and minimize the weaknesses. The previous coordinator didn't do a good job of this. Chud didn't have Luck for 6 of his 7 games, and wasn't running his preferred offense anyway. We'll see what Chud has in store, but I'm optimistic that he has a good idea of how to get this offense tuned up.

[Restored]

12 hours ago, Superman said:

Way too many generalizations and inaccuracies for me. 

 

1) It's not really true that Hilton struggles against press coverage. He actually eats press coverage up most of the time he faces it, which is why rarely anyone tries to press him. This is just the typical knock against a smallish receiver -- he's only 5'10", so he has trouble with physical coverage. Yeah, ask Brandon Browner about that... The only strategy that slows down Hilton is to bracket him with a corner underneath and a safety over the top, and if the only way to stop a receiver is to double him, then he qualifies as a true #1. If jamming him at the line was all you had to do to stop him, teams would jam him.

 

2) Acting like Gore and Turbin can't produce in the passing game is dumb. Gore has averaged 34 catches/year over his career, with over 8 yards/catch. He's older, so maybe he won't get that many receiving opportunities, but the Colts have a handful of younger guys who have the pass catching skill set and who will compete for the RB3/4 spots on the roster. If the Colts want to utilize backs in the passing game, they'll be able to.

 

3) Acting like Dwayne Allen isn't capable of producing as a pass catcher is also ridiculous. He's not Jimmy Graham, but he's been an all over the field pass catcher since Clemson. Line him up wherever you want. No reason he can't be a reasonably high volume pass catcher, especially since he's now the undisputed TE1, not sharing the role with Fleener. The writer compares Allen to Martellus Bennett, who had a 90 catch season two years ago, but averages 43 catches/year. Allen had 45 catches as a rookie. He is the droid you're looking for.

 

I agree with the overall premise of the article. Luck has some work to do, but the offense has to evolve in order to take better use the weapons we have and minimize the weaknesses. The previous coordinator didn't do a good job of this. Chud didn't have Luck for 6 of his 7 games, and wasn't running his preferred offense anyway. We'll see what Chud has in store, but I'm optimistic that he has a good idea of how to get this offense tuned up.

 

I agree to the bolded especially. The author seemed almost skeptical about Chud's ability to construct an offense that will tailor to what the Colts have personnel-wise. Even though Chud's history supports his ability to likely do so.

[ReMeDy]

From the comments:
"Colts insiders say Luck is STILL having trouble finding the right mix of potions to control his lycanthropy."

lol okay, I'll admit, I laughed. Joke's on him -- Luck's a horse.

[throwing BBZ]

This guy actually knows our Colts. Wow!

 Allen will get plenty of balls thrown his way.  But DQ Jackson could cover him.
 Gore averaged 18 catches a season over the previous 4 seasons before he came here.
 IMO he didn`t look good catching the ball last season. Drops and bad angles. So i hope we develop someone better.
 So maybe in their 5th season Grigs & Chuck get us that ground game they promised us.
   Get healthy Denzelle.
 

[bleevit]

I believe Luck's numbers will improve drastically if there is a chance that the Colts can get a first down on 3rd and 2 running the ball. This would lead to nice play-action options that are hard to defend. I thought the author was fairly accurate as far as he went.

[MacAvery]

The offensive line is terrible. It's a crime to have a QB with the rare quality of Andrew Luck and waste it with pitiful management and coaching philosophy.

 

I agree with Superman, Hilton can beat press man but its still the best way to play these receivers when the OC insists on 5-7 step drops with this incredibly awful line.

[superrep1967]

On 5/25/2016 at 9:51 AM, Restored said:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/25/nfl-andrew-luck-indianapolis-colts

 

Good piece that delves into some of the issues (some of which aren't new to us) the Colts and Andrew Luck have had. The biggest point being how Chud's offense must work to mask weaknesses and capitalize on strengths unlike the previous system.

Yeah that's OC's job and I'm excited about seeing Chud's offense and his play calling. But will Luck have the ability to change the play whenever he wants? I guess only time will tell. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Yeah that's OC's job and I'm excited about seeing Chud's offense and his play calling. But will Luck have the ability to change the play whenever he wants? I guess only time will tell. 

 

I don't think we have to wait for time to tell.

 

There's no reason to even speculate that a QB of Luck's ability won't have the ability to audible.

 

He absolutely will.      

 

If Luck thinks it's better to run than pass,   or pass than run,   then he'll change the play.

 

Chud will not stop him from doing that......     not a chance.     Chud knows who to run an offense properly.

 

No worries......

 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think we have to wait for time to tell.

 

There's no reason to even speculate that a QB of Luck's ability won't have the ability to audible.

 

He absolutely will.      

 

If Luck thinks it's better to run than pass,   or pass than run,   then he'll change the play.

 

Chud will not stop him from doing that......     not a chance.     Chud knows who to run an offense properly.

 

No worries......

 

The only real question is will Luck know when to make the correct call because he has shown to struggle at times when the defense is showing a run look and pass look and making the incorrect call

[LockeDown]

Peyton's excellence wasn't his IQ, but his memory recall.  Watched all of that tape, but he was able to remember all of it and recognize it when he saw it on the field.  I' guessing Andrew can do that as well.  But it takes time and experience to watch that much tape.

[Ollonesomeme]

I think it was Peyton's intelligence and the rest was hard work. I don't think any other QB can come close to him.

[Superman]

There are times when the coach should tell the QB not to change out of a run play. Especially now that the OC can communicate directly with the QB from the booth upstairs. 

 

I'm sure Luck will have plenty of freedom to make adjustments at the line, though.

[dw49]

On May 25, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Superman said:

Way too many generalizations and inaccuracies for me. 

 

1) It's not really true that Hilton struggles against press coverage. He actually eats press coverage up most of the time he faces it, which is why rarely anyone tries to press him. This is just the typical knock against a smallish receiver -- he's only 5'10", so he has trouble with physical coverage. Yeah, ask Brandon Browner about that... The only strategy that slows down Hilton is to bracket him with a corner underneath and a safety over the top, and if the only way to stop a receiver is to double him, then he qualifies as a true #1. If jamming him at the line was all you had to do to stop him, teams would jam him.

 

2) Acting like Gore and Turbin can't produce in the passing game is dumb. Gore has averaged 34 catches/year over his career, with over 8 yards/catch. He's older, so maybe he won't get that many receiving opportunities, but the Colts have a handful of younger guys who have the pass catching skill set and who will compete for the RB3/4 spots on the roster. If the Colts want to utilize backs in the passing game, they'll be able to.

 

3) Acting like Dwayne Allen isn't capable of producing as a pass catcher is also ridiculous. He's not Jimmy Graham, but he's been an all over the field pass catcher since Clemson. Line him up wherever you want. No reason he can't be a reasonably high volume pass catcher, especially since he's now the undisputed TE1, not sharing the role with Fleener. The writer compares Allen to Martellus Bennett, who had a 90 catch season two years ago, but averages 43 catches/year. Allen had 45 catches as a rookie. He is the droid you're looking for.

 

I agree with the overall premise of the article. Luck has some work to do, but the offense has to evolve in order to take better use the weapons we have and minimize the weaknesses. The previous coordinator didn't do a good job of this. Chud didn't have Luck for 6 of his 7 games, and wasn't running his preferred offense anyway. We'll see what Chud has in store, but I'm optimistic that he has a good idea of how to get this offense tuned up.

 

Where I agree with the author was his evaluation of how the protection was last year. Much of the rest was "poppycock" as you pointed out. Like that word ?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I like that the article points out that even though this is a  pass-happy era, it is still important to move the ball on short/mid-distant plays.  The article has its flaws, but I think that point is a huge one.

 

Even though we haven't had a running game to speak of during the Luck era, I think where Chud did well last year when Hasselbeck was in designing plays to allow him to get the ball out quick.

 

I know Luck can be very good (or very bad) as plays extend, but I think it'd be huge for him to have a good chunk of plays per game be designed as quick drop backs with quick passes.  We have a lot of speed on this team with TY, Moncrief, and Dorsett all running sub 4.4.  Brian Tyms and Josh Boyce are also in the 4.4 or below range, and we have unproven guys in Josh Ferguson and Tevaun Smith who are in the 4.4 range.  My point here is, we have a lot of speed on this offense and I still, for the life of me, cannot figure out why we have been pretty much unsuccessful to have an effective screen game -- I really hope Chud can figure this out.  With all the speed/athleticism, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to consistently have screens or short passes which have very low turnover risk and should be able to consistently move the ball 4 or more yards. 

 

If we can establish a very effective and dangerous short passing game (I think this has to involve screens but also some just 2-3 step drops and fire to allow guys like TY and Dorsett to make quick/easy catches when defenses are playing soft and should be an effective way to move the ball), I think it would be hugely helpful for Luck.  I also think it should open up our offense in that if teams fear that, we should be that much more likely to have opportunities for the speedsters on our team to blow the top off opposing secondaries.  I think Chud was pretty effective in putting Hasselbeck in situations where he could get the ball out quick, but like others have mentioned, Hasselbeck didn't have the arm strength to throw the deep ball -- with a healthy Luck, I hope they figure out how to do both.

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 9:26 AM, bleevit said:

9 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

9 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Yeah that's OC's job and I'm excited about seeing Chud's offense and his play calling. But will Luck have the ability to change the play whenever he wants? I guess only time will tell. 

Yeah that's OC's job and I'm excited about seeing Chud's offense and his play calling. But will Luck have the ability to change the play whenever he wants? I guess only time will tell. 

I believe Luck's numbers will improve drastically if there is a chance that the Colts can get a first down on 3rd and 2 running the ball. This would lead to nice play-action options that are hard to defend. I thought the author was fairly accurate as far as he went.

Yes Luck will have the freedom to audible. But the question is will Luck know WHEN to audible AND what play to audible to?

So far, reading defenses is not his strong suit.

[Restored]

10 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Yes Luck will have the freedom to audible. But the question is will Luck know WHEN to audible AND what play to audible to?

So far, reading defenses is not his strong suit.

 

Last year, he struggled mightily at interpreting what defenses were doing. The Bills and Jets had him looking like a rookie at times. But in 2014, he was brilliant at times with a number of his throws and pre-snap reads.

 

It makes me wonder how much Pep changed the offense from 2014 to last year.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 5/25/2016 at 8:51 AM, Restored said:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/25/nfl-andrew-luck-indianapolis-colts

 

Good piece that delves into some of the issues (some of which aren't new to us) the Colts and Andrew Luck have had. The biggest point being how Chud's offense must work to mask weaknesses and capitalize on strengths unlike the previous system.

Mask weaknesses and capitalize on strengths you say?  I'm surprised no coach has thought about doing that before.

[Restored]

32 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Mask weaknesses and capitalize on strengths you say?  I'm surprised no coach has thought about doing that before.

 

Thought and action are two different things entirely but I hope I don't have to explain the difference to you.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

5 hours ago, Restored said:

 

Last year, he struggled mightily at interpreting what defenses were doing. The Bills and Jets had him looking like a rookie at times. But in 2014, he was brilliant at times with a number of his throws and pre-snap reads.

 

It makes me wonder how much Pep changed the offense from 2014 to last year.

 

It would be nice if pep and all the other coaches that were let go were 100% to blame for Luck's and everyone else's woes.

But imo, regardless of who is the oc and the system, a good qb should be able to read the D & adjust the play accordingly.

Hopefully, our new qb coach can put him on the right track AND help him with his accuracy issues as well.

[Restored]

6 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

It would be nice if pep and all the other coaches that were let go were 100% to blame for Luck's and everyone else's woes.

But imo, regardless of who is the oc and the system, a good qb should be able to read the D & adjust the play accordingly.

Hopefully, our new qb coach can put him on the right track AND help him with his accuracy issues as well.

 

Well yeah it wasn't 100% Pep's fault for what happened last year but the offense was clearly run in a different manner than it was in 2014 when Luck was at his peak. It was almost a perfect storm of bad play calling/design, offensive line issues and Luck just not playing well.

[Ollonesomeme]

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

So did Manning get better with time? How many years did it take Manning to win a playoff game?  The upside is made through experience and maturity. Luck has already showed he has the ability and the talent to get better. He has a down year and then suffers a serious injury and you think he has reached his top level of what he can do? Sorry, I don't agree.

[JlynRN]

2 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

 

Alot of people seem to be looking at Luck ONLY through the eyes of last season only.  I choose to look at Luck's upside through his 1st 3 years in the league.  We all saw what he is capable of. To say he has no upside is laughable at best.  I don't think Winston or Mariota have as much upside as Luck does. And I still feel that Luck would be drafted 1st overall if the draft were done all over again.  I just don't agree that Luck has reached his ceiling. For me the sky is the limit for Luck !!

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

But yet Peyton Manning went 6-10 in his 4th Season and then went on to set every record imaginable and won 2 SB's. Winston and Mariota LOL

[The Brazilian Ninja]

3 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

.

[Coffeedrinker]

8 hours ago, Restored said:

 

Thought and action are two different things entirely but I hope I don't have to explain the difference to you.

Well your response is about as generic as the mask weakness and capitalize on strengths.  And at this time of your it's all thught and next to no action.  What's the next gem, if the Colts can outscore the other team they will win?

 

I think Chud is a better OC than Pep but I'm biased I thought very early on that Pep was a bad OC and I was harassed about it by other posters when the Colts went to the 2nd round in the playoffs and even moreso when they went to the AFCCG.  But the NFL is too sophisticated and complicated to think a team can mask it's weaknesses.  Some DC find those weaknesses and try to exploit them, the great DCs focus on stopping the other teams' strength and forcing them to rely on their weaknesses.

[Cynjin]

5 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

 

My thoughts?  

 

 

Good Lord.

[JlynRN]

6 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Do Colts fans believe that Andrew Luck has much upside now? It seems to me that after this much time, what we see is what we get. Fans seem to think that the new OC will make a big difference in what we see from Luck? I don't see that happening however, the OC may design plays that do not expose Luck's flaws but really play into his strong points. One poster here has said many times that if the NFL conducted a league wide draft that Luck would be taken first. I don't think so. I think Winston-and Mariota because of their great upside but most of all for their rookie contracts woul be taken one-two. Your thoughts?

 

My thoughts??

 

Just how many accounts does Ol Blu have??  ROFL

[Restored]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Well your response is about as generic as the mask weakness and capitalize on strengths.  And at this time of your it's all thught and next to no action.  What's the next gem, if the Colts can outscore the other team they will win?

 

I think Chud is a better OC than Pep but I'm biased I thought very early on that Pep was a bad OC and I was harassed about it by other posters when the Colts went to the 2nd round in the playoffs and even moreso when they went to the AFCCG.  But the NFL is too sophisticated and complicated to think a team can mask it's weaknesses.  Some DC find those weaknesses and try to exploit them, the great DCs focus on stopping the other teams' strength and forcing them to rely on their weaknesses.

 

Funny how you disect generalities in your first paragraph yet your second is one giant generality. Pot meet kettle.

 

Great teams mask their weaknesses fairly well actually. Denver masked its shoddy QB play last season by running a low-tempo, ball control offense. New England masked it's lack of a rushing attack by having Brady sit back in a quick passing offense.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, Restored said:

 

Funny how you disect generalities in your first paragraph yet your second is one giant generality. Pot meet kettle.

 

Great teams mask their weaknesses fairly well actually. Denver masked its shoddy QB play last season by running a low-tempo, ball control offense. New England masked it's lack of a rushing attack by having Brady sit back in a quick passing offense.

 

Ok buddy, whatever you say.

[oldunclemark]

Andrew's numbers were really bad in the eight games be missed last season.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

It's the ultimate team game, so it's not Luck's fault, it's the OLine.  But Hasselbeck did OK behind the same OLine, so maybe it's the defense.  Well if the offense would sustain some drives, the D wouldn't be on the field for so long, and they wouldn't look so bad.  Well if the defense would just get a turnover once in a while, the offense could put some more points on the board with those extra possessions.  Well if the special teams would tackle somebody, we wouldn't have such bad field position all the time.

 

Well if the coaches would just coach better, none of these mistakes would happen.

 

Well if the GM would get the right players in here for the coach, he could run his scheme and be successful.

 

Well if the owner would hire the right guys, then they would hire the right guys, and then everything would be great!

[throwing BBZ]

"If a play breaks down in practice, making a full-speed decision to throw it away is an aspect I have to train myself now.”
 

 A recent quote from 'Dumb' Luck. The Greatest prospect in 25 years.

[crazycolt1]

46 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

"If a play breaks down in practice, making a full-speed decision to throw it away is an aspect I have to train myself now.”
 

 A recent quote from 'Dumb' Luck. The Greatest prospect in 25 years.

Nice of you to go there.

[RockThatBlue]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

"If a play breaks down in practice, making a full-speed decision to throw it away is an aspect I have to train myself now.”
 

 A recent quote from 'Dumb' Luck. The Greatest prospect in 25 years.

You cant be serious. Wow.

 

I can assure you Andrew Luck is not dumb. I don't know you personally (thank God) but I can bet hes a lot smarter than you. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

You cant be serious. Wow.

 

I can assure you Andrew Luck is not dumb. I don't know you personally (thank God) but I can bet hes a lot smarter than you. 

Yeah I don't imagine that throwing BBZ has a Bachelors degree in architectural design and has an Al Masters Award for the highest standards of athletic  performance, leadership and academic achievement from Stanford University with a 3.8 grade average. I could be wrong but I kinda doubt it.