Bates as a ILB?

[CR91]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/5/5/11603758/trevor-bates-mentions-colts-may-at-some-point-move-him-to-inside-linebacker

 

interesting

[BlueShoe]

It makes sense. My first thought while watching his college tape was to move him inside to WILB, because of his cover skills. That said, our need is pass rush so I would try him there first.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Yet another piece that makes me wonder if our front office has any idea of what it's doing.....................

 

[CR91]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yet another piece that makes me wonder if our front office has any idea of what it's doing.....................

 

 

well if he can learn to play inside, it does give us flexibility. you know the colts love finding players that can do more then one thing

[Smonroe]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yet another piece that makes me wonder if our front office has any idea of what it's doing.....................

 

 

Or they could be putting him in the best position to make the team.  Sort of like Okine, he may have a better shot at making the team at OLB.  He's probably a PS guy anyway.

 

But given some of the decisions our front office made in the past, I'm not going to argue with you too hard.  

[shakedownstreet]

if he turns out to be a star, we can call him master bates

[LockeDown]

16 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said:

if he turns out to be a star, we can call him master bates

If he has off the field problems, we can call him repro bates.

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Or they could be putting him in the best position to make the team.  Sort of like Okine, he may have a better shot at making the team at OLB.  He's probably a PS guy anyway.

 

But given some of the decisions our front office made in the past, I'm not going to argue with you too hard.  

 

I'm not saying the front office is wrong......

 

But they draft a guy who has played on the edge...  DE/OLB....   he's coming in as an OLB.

 

And already they're looking down the road to see if they can move him to ILB?!?      How about they look down the road to see if he can play either the strong side or the weak side on the outside.      That's where he's been,  how about staying focused on there.....

 

[Defjamz26]

Nah I want him groomed at OLB. He, Thompson, and Magitt should all be groomed to see if they can be a future pass rush specialist for the Colts.

[LockeDown]

I'm wondering if Monachino(sp) has anything to do with this?  We get Philbin, we draft an entire offensive line.  We get Monachino(sp), we start moving players to different positions.  Weird.

[ztboiler]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not saying the front office is wrong......

 

But they draft a guy who has played on the edge...  DE/OLB....   he's coming in as an OLB.

 

And already they're looking down the road to see if they can move him to ILB?!?      How about they look down the road to see if he can play either the strong side or the weak side on the outside.      That's where he's been,  how about staying focused on there.....

 

How is it different than when the Pats moved Jamie Collins from the edge to off the ball?

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

How is it different than when the Pats moved Jamie Collins from the edge to off the ball?

 

The Pats have a history of success.     This front office....  well,  less so.      I'm not ready to give this front office as much benefit of the doubt as others here....

 

I've been surprised at the number of people citing what the Pats do and looking for a comparison.

 

When the Colts are nearly as successful as the Patriots then we can make some comparisons....

 

I've lost a lot of faith in our front office.     I hope they win me back.     I hope they prove my skepticism to be unfounded.     I hope they prove me wrong.     I don't make negative posts hoping to be right.    I honestly hope to be wrong.     Seriously,  I'd much rather be wrong here than right.

 

 

 

[ztboiler]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Pats have a history of success.     This front office....  well,  less so.      I'm not ready to give this front office as much benefit of the doubt as others here....

 

I've been surprised at the number of people citing what the Pats do and looking for a comparison.

 

When the Colts are nearly as successful as the Patriots then we can make some comparisons....

 

I've lost a lot of faith in our front office.     I hope they win me back.     I hope they prove my skepticism to be unfounded.     I hope they prove me wrong.     I don't make negative posts hoping to be right.    I honestly hope to be wrong.     Seriously,  I'd much rather be wrong here than right.

 

 

 

I'm not sure it makes much sense to justify your skepticism of the front office with a coaching decision about the position where they choose to play a 7th Rd draft choice....especially when they are planning to start him at your own position of choice.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, ztboiler said:

I'm not sure it makes much sense to justify your skepticism of the front office with a coaching decision about the position where they choose to play a 7th Rd draft choice....especially when they are planning to start him at your own position of choice.

 

I have all sorts of red flags about the front office after this draft.

 

I'm hopeful on all the picks and I've defended them.

 

But when the owner and GM come out and say Green was a 1st round pick on their board,  and Clark was a borderline 1/2 and Hoag was a 2nd round pick,   so I assume Ridgeway and Morrison were also high on their board....     when they keep saying they're drafting five guys who are 1-3 rounds higher on the board then where they are drafted,  that's a red flag for me.     Especially with a front office whose drafting I view as spotty.

 

If they had a better track record, I'd have more confidence.     Now?     I'm just highly skeptical and hoping over the next two years that I'm proven wrong and they're proven right.     I'd be happy to be wrong.

 

But I fear I'm not....

[ztboiler]

56 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I have all sorts of red flags about the front office after this draft.

 

I'm hopeful on all the picks and I've defended them.

 

But when the owner and GM come out and say Green was a 1st round pick on their board,  and Clark was a borderline 1/2 and Hoag was a 2nd round pick,   so I assume Ridgeway and Morrison were also high on their board....     when they keep saying they're drafting five guys who are 1-3 rounds higher on the board then where they are drafted,  that's a red flag for me.     Especially with a front office whose drafting I view as spotty.

 

If they had a better track record, I'd have more confidence.     Now?     I'm just highly skeptical and hoping over the next two years that I'm proven wrong and they're proven right.     I'd be happy to be wrong.

 

But I fear I'm not....

Sounds exhausting.  Hang in there.

[krunk]

I could see him being able to play ILB as he has the size, speed and hustle for the position.  We did the same thing with Josh Mcnary coming out of Army.  He was a pass rusher coming out of college.  Bates I think is better suited on the outside, but I'm sure in the Colts future designs they probably plan on signing some top level pass rushers in next years draft I'm almost positive.  As far as this year is concerned it depends on who our best pass rushers are in the preseason.  If he comes in and balls out I believes he stays outside, however if Maggitt and Thompson are better I could see him being moved inside as he would be a really nice sized inside linebacker at 6'2" and 245lbs with the speed to chase.  I'm sure they are also thinking about all those tipped passes and different interceptions he got last year with Maine.  I can sort of see where they are going with this, but I need to see him playing live with the colts to convince me a little bit.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not saying the front office is wrong......

 

But they draft a guy who has played on the edge...  DE/OLB....   he's coming in as an OLB.

 

And already they're looking down the road to see if they can move him to ILB?!?      How about they look down the road to see if he can play either the strong side or the weak side on the outside.      That's where he's been,  how about staying focused on there.....

 

 

Maybe they're just looking for ways to get him on the field. We already know mathis, cole and walden will get the majority of snaps at olb. 

 

Could also be they want to move him inside on early downs but keep him on the edge in passing situations.

[BlueShoe]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not saying the front office is wrong......

 

But they draft a guy who has played on the edge...  DE/OLB....   he's coming in as an OLB.

 

And already they're looking down the road to see if they can move him to ILB?!?      How about they look down the road to see if he can play either the strong side or the weak side on the outside.      That's where he's been,  how about staying focused on there.....

 

 

If we are talking about a first round pick, then I mostly agree. I would not draft a player in the first round and then play him in a different position. That's just me though, and it is certainly not always the way all front offices will look at it.

 

That said, this was not a first round pick. This is where you can take a few chances. When I first watched Bates on tape, he screamed WILB to me. That was long before any of this stuff was brought up. However, I am just a guy sitting in front of a computer, talking about what the front office is doing. 

 

It sounds like the Colts front office is playing this exactly the same way I would though. Bates is the same size as Mathis, and there is no harm in trying him out at Rush. The entire NFL is moving to special packages, with hybrid defenses. Bates could have the position flexibility to play all three downs, including the special packages, and might be a player we can move around in different fronts. I would start Bates at Rush, and if he struggles then move him inside. Sounds like that is the Colts plan too. 

 

Let's be real here though. He is a late round pick, and we would be foolish to put the cart before the horse. Let's see how he looks throughout the off-season first. It is way too early know anything yet.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Pats have a history of success.     This front office....  well,  less so.      I'm not ready to give this front office as much benefit of the doubt as others here....

 

I've been surprised at the number of people citing what the Pats do and looking for a comparison.

 

When the Colts are nearly as successful as the Patriots then we can make some comparisons....

 

I've lost a lot of faith in our front office.     I hope they win me back.     I hope they prove my skepticism to be unfounded.     I hope they prove me wrong.     I don't make negative posts hoping to be right.    I honestly hope to be wrong.     Seriously,  I'd much rather be wrong here than right.

 

I don't understand where you are coming from. On my board the patriots had the second to worst draft, and they've had a lot of misses over the past few years. This draft might be as bad for the patriots as 2013 was for us. They reached on every pick except for Malcolm Mitchell. They are getting sloppier every year. 

 

I believe when we look back at this draft, it will be one of our better ones.

[krunk]

17 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I don't understand where you are coming from. On my board the patriots had the second to worst draft, and they've had a lot of misses over the past few years. This draft might be as bad for the patriots as 2013 was for us. They reached on every pick except for Malcolm Mitchell. They are getting sloppier every year. 

 

I believe when we look back at this draft, it will be one of our better ones.

 

I just don't get it sometimes bro!  I have watched Bill Bellichick and Co. screw up several drafts including one that resulted in no players from the entire draft to no more than one player from the class being retained and people have this obsession with going for the jugular on Grigson as if he is the only GM in the entire league that has players that don't pan out.  It gets insane sometimes I have to say and the excuse is they have a good track record.  Huh?  When the Colts are winning and going to the playoffs every year since we drafted Luck, no one ever allows this coaching staff to say "well we have a good track record".  No they turn around and dump on the staff and give all the praise to Luck.  I don't give a darn if it is Bellichick, dumb decisions added up over time will topple them too.  

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I don't understand where you are coming from. On my board the patriots had the second to worst draft, and they've had a lot of misses over the past few years. This draft might be as bad for the patriots as 2013 was for us. They reached on every pick except for Malcolm Mitchell. They are getting sloppier every year. 

 

I believe when we look back at this draft, it will be one of our better ones.

 

They may have had a sloppy draft,  but they've earned a ton of the benefit of the doubt.   Hey,  the just dropped their FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK after two seasons for no apparent reason.    Turns out the kid was a major headache in the locker-room and on the practice field and was no longer worth the trouble.

 

But the Pats have had more success the last 15 years than any other franchise.    Whoever is 2nd is a distant second.     So,  they've earned any skepticism anyone has. 

 

That's my view of things......

 

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I have all sorts of red flags about the front office after this draft.

 

I'm hopeful on all the picks and I've defended them.

 

But when the owner and GM come out and say Green was a 1st round pick on their board,  and Clark was a borderline 1/2 and Hoag was a 2nd round pick,   so I assume Ridgeway and Morrison were also high on their board....     when they keep saying they're drafting five guys who are 1-3 rounds higher on the board then where they are drafted,  that's a red flag for me.     Especially with a front office whose drafting I view as spotty.

 

If they had a better track record, I'd have more confidence.     Now?     I'm just highly skeptical and hoping over the next two years that I'm proven wrong and they're proven right.     I'd be happy to be wrong.

 

But I fear I'm not....

 

I am not trying to respond to all of your posts in this thread, but I am in complete disagreement.

 

I believe Grigson is getting better, and our front office is improving. They are becoming a single cohesive unit. It's obvious they are working well together this off-season. Whatever they did at the end of 2015 behind those closed doors; well it seems to have really cleared the air. Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano; they all seem more composed than last year. We are not taking as many chances with our draft picks. We are more responsible, and safer. 

 

Bottom line is that Kelly, Green, and Clark were all very highly ranked players. This is how the offensive line fell in the draft:

 

Ronnie Stanley

Jack Conklin

Laremy Tunsil

Taylor Decker

Ryan Kelly

Joshua Garnett

Germain Ifedi

Jason Spriggs

Nick Martin

Cody Whitehair

Max Tuerk

Shon Coleman

Joe Thuney

Isaac Seumalo

Le'Raven Clark

 

I have bolded the players I would have taken over Clark. Tunsil was off my board, because I believe his problems are just beginning. I think Miami might have a psycho on their hands. I think he is full of crap, and I believe he is a drama magnet. Handing him a substantial amount of money is only going to pour gasoline on that fire. 

 

I would have drafted Clark in the second round. This cat is long, and we picked him an entire round later than I predicted he would go. I had him going in the 50's. Never would have thought he would be there at #82. I would have taken that bet and lost it.

 

I believe Green was the Pagano pick. Pagano wants some clay to mold, and Green fits the bill nicely. Green is also the type of player you have to take early. There is always a team that will fall in love with his measurable's. Now we wait and see. 

 

I had Blythe going in the 6th round. We took him 32 spots higher than I thought he would go. 

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

They may have had a sloppy draft,  but they've earned a ton of the benefit of the doubt.   Hey,  the just dropped their FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK after two seasons for no apparent reason.    Turns out the kid was a major headache in the locker-room and on the practice field and was no longer worth the trouble.

 

But the Pats have had more success the last 15 years than any other franchise.    Whoever is 2nd is a distant second.     So,  they've earned any skepticism anyone has. 

 

That's my view of things......

 

 

Look man, every year in the NFL is a new year. Every team is undefeated right now. 

 

We can look at history and understand that Belichick is a damn good coach. Hell, he might be the best ever. He masks a lot of the patriots deficiencies, much like Peyton did for our Colts. 

 

Eventually these bad drafts are going to catch up to the patriots. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I am not trying to respond to all of your posts in this thread, but I am in complete disagreement.

 

I believe Grigson is getting better, and our front office is improving. They are becoming a single cohesive unit. It's obvious they are working well together this off-season. Whatever they did at the end of 2015 behind those closed doors; well it seems to have really cleared the air. Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano; they all seem more composed than last year. We are not taking as many chances with our draft picks. We are more responsible, and safer. 

 

Bottom line is that Kelly, Green, and Clark were all very highly ranked players. This is how the offensive line fell in the draft:

 

Ronnie Stanley

Jack Conklin

Laremy Tunsil

Taylor Decker

Ryan Kelly

Joshua Garnett

Germain Ifedi

Jason Spriggs

Nick Martin

Cody Whitehair

Max Tuerk

Shon Coleman

Joe Thuney

Isaac Seumalo

Le'Raven Clark

 

I have bolded the players I would have taken over Clark. Tunsil was off my board, because I believe his problems are just beginning. I think Miami might have a psycho on their hands. I think he is full of crap, and I believe he is a drama magnet. Handing him a substantial amount of money is only going to pour gasoline on that fire. 

 

I would have drafted Clark in the second round. This cat is long, and we picked him an entire round later than I predicted he would go. I had him going in the 50's. Never would have thought he would be there at #82. I would have taken that bet and lost it.

 

I believe Green was the Pagano pick. Pagano wants some clay to mold, and Green fits the bill nicely. Green is also the type of player you have to take early. There is always a team that will fall in love with his measurable's. Now we wait and see. 

 

I had Blythe going in the 6th round. We took him 32 spots higher than I thought he would go. 

 

Green and Clark are guys that likely won't contribute much in their rookie year.    They'll likely both need a full year of seasoning to show dividends.

 

I have no objections to them,  it's how the front office described them.     Green a 1st round pick?    Clark a borderline 1/2?     Hoag a 2?      I'm sure Ridgeway and Morrison were ranked higher than they were drafted.

 

That's either rare,  Bill Walsh genius level insight into stacking the board,  or we have misevaluated again.

 

When you're announcing that 5 players were ranked higher to much higher on your board than they were drafted,   it makes me skeptical.      Especially considering our spotty history.

 

I'd almost feel better if we DIDN'T ANNOUNCE how highly we thought of them and saved that for a year or two down the line when they're paying off for us.      Now,  the expectations bar is way up on them because of what we announced.      I don't think it was smart.

 

Again.....    I'm hoping to be wrong,  but it's been my reading of history that when most teams announce they have players ranked much higher on their board than where they were drafted,  it shows why these teams aren't as successful as they should be.

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Look man, every year in the NFL is a new year. Every team is undefeated right now. 

 

We can look at history and understand that Belichick is a damn good coach. Hell, he might be the best ever. He masks a lot of the patriots deficiencies, much like Peyton did for our Colts. 

 

Eventually these bad drafts are going to catch up to the patriots. 

 

I'm much more worried that eventually these questionable drafts are going to catch up to the Colts!

 

 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Green and Clark are guys that likely won't contribute much in their rookie year.    They'll likely both need a full year of seasoning to show dividends.

 

I have no objections to them,  it's how the front office described them.     Green a 1st round pick?    Clark a borderline 1/2?     Hoag a 2?      I'm sure Ridgeway and Morrison were ranked higher than they were drafted.

 

That's either rare,  Bill Walsh genius level insight into stacking the board,  or we have misevaluated again.

 

When you're announcing that 5 players were ranked higher to much higher on your board than they were drafted,   it makes me skeptical.      Especially considering our spotty history.

 

I'd almost feel better if we DIDN'T ANNOUNCE how highly we thought of them and saved that for a year or two down the line when they're paying off for us.      Now,  the expectations bar is way up on them because of what we announced.      I don't think it was smart.

 

Again.....    I'm hoping to be wrong,  but it's been my reading of history that when most teams announce they have players ranked much higher on their board than where they were drafted,  it shows why these teams aren't as successful as they should be.

 

Let me ask you this, why isn't Clark going to contribute his rookie year much? Is it because he was drafted in the 3rd round? Is it because of what some draft analysts said about him? Is it some old school thing where rookies have to pay their dues to become starters and can't outshine a player that's been playing longer? Clark is no slouch, he'll likely start on day 1, whether it be at RG or RT (not sure which), and it won't be too hard to earn a starting job based on the goal of drafting the O-Line and the weakness of our O-Line before the draft. That old school mentality that you have to play a year or two before starting or getting playing time doesn't apply nearly as much anymore, especially if you more talented out of the gate than the person you are competing for the job with.

[BlueShoe]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Green and Clark are guys that likely won't contribute much in their rookie year.    They'll likely both need a full year of seasoning to show dividends.

 

I have no objections to them,  it's how the front office described them.     Green a 1st round pick?    Clark a borderline 1/2?     Hoag a 2?      I'm sure Ridgeway and Morrison were ranked higher than they were drafted.

 

That's either rare,  Bill Walsh genius level insight into stacking the board,  or we have misevaluated again.

 

When you're announcing that 5 players were ranked higher to much higher on your board than they were drafted,   it makes me skeptical.      Especially considering our spotty history.

 

I'd almost feel better if we DIDN'T ANNOUNCE how highly we thought of them and saved that for a year or two down the line when they're paying off for us.      Now,  the expectations bar is way up on them because of what we announced.      I don't think it was smart.

 

Again.....    I'm hoping to be wrong,  but it's been my reading of history that when most teams announce they have players ranked much higher on their board than where they were drafted,  it shows why these teams aren't as successful as they should be.

 

 

I disagree. I believe Clark has the potential to be a day-one starter. Hell, I would be surprised if he doesn't start either at RG, or RT on opening day. 

 

I understand why they would have Green and Clark as first round picks. They were both even mocked in the first round a few times. The measurable's on these two are off the charts. Clark is 6'5" with 36-inch arms and almost 12-inch hands. That's insanely not normal. Green is 6'2" 209, and he is running the forty in 4.34 seconds. Unbelievable! 

 

Why is it hard to believe the front office? I had Kelly going as high as 16 to the Lions. Green's measurable's alone was getting him drafted early. I thought for sure that Clark would be a mid-second round pick. I had Ridgeway going in the late second or very early third. And I thought Blythe would be drafted a round or two earlier. It is not really hard for me to see where they are coming from. I see the exact same thing they do, and they have a lot more information than me. 

 

Every NFL team is going to walk away from the draft feeling good about themselves. For the most part; they get the players they wanted. Different team needs, different offensive and defensive philosophies, different philosophies on players with red flags, and so on; this causes teams to have completely different boards. I would bet that no team has players ranked in the same order at any position. 

 

I can tell you this; the moment we drafted Dwight Freeney, Bill Polian lit up light a Christmas tree. He raved about Freeney in the press conference. I went to camp and the moment I saw him running through drills, it was evident this was a beast of a man playing with boys. I had never seen anything like this in all my years as a Colts fan. I have several stories like that. 

[BlueShoe]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm much more worried that eventually these questionable drafts are going to catch up to the Colts!

 

 

 

Our 2013 draft did hit us. We corrected the ship with the 2014 and 2015 drafts. 

 

We paid the price of 8-8 for our miscalculations. 

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Let me ask you this, why isn't Clark going to contribute his rookie year much? Is it because he was drafted in the 3rd round? Is it because of what some draft analysts said about him? Is it some old school thing where rookies have to pay their dues to become starters and can't outshine a player that's been playing longer? Clark is no slouch, he'll likely start on day 1, whether it be at RG or RT (not sure which), and it won't be too hard to earn a starting job based on the goal of drafting the O-Line and the weakness of our O-Line before the draft. That old school mentality that you have to play a year or two before starting or getting playing time doesn't apply nearly as much anymore, especially if you more talented out of the gate than the person you are competing for the job with.

 

Because he's played in a spread system that is far from the NFL game.    Pretty much every draft evaluation site projected Clark as a guy who needs a year or so of serious NFL grooming.

 

They all love his upside.    They all love his physical tools.    But everyone agrees --- and so do the Colts --- that he's an unpolished gem that needs a lot of polishing.

 

This isn't an isolated opinion.

 

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree. I believe Clark has the potential to be a day-one starter. Hell, I would be surprised if he doesn't start either at RG, or RT on opening day. 

 

I understand why they would have Green and Clark as first round picks. They were both even mocked in the first round a few times. The measurable's on these two are off the charts. Clark is 6'5" with 36-inch arms and almost 12-inch hands. That's insanely not normal. Green is 6'2" 209, and he is running the forty in 4.34 seconds. Unbelievable! 

 

Why is it hard to believe the front office? I had Kelly going as high as 16 to the Lions. Green's measurable's alone was getting him drafted early. I thought for sure that Clark would be a mid-second round pick. I had Ridgeway going in the late second or very early third. And I thought Blythe would be drafted a round or two earlier. It is not really hard for me to see where they are coming from. I see the exact same thing they do, and they have a lot more information than me. 

 

Every NFL team is going to walk away from the draft feeling good about themselves. For the most part; they get the players they wanted. Different team needs, different offensive and defensive philosophies, different philosophies on players with red flags, and so on; this causes teams to have completely different boards. I would bet that no team has players ranked in the same order at any position. 

 

I can tell you this; the moment we drafted Dwight Freeney, Bill Polian lit up light a Christmas tree. He raved about Freeney in the press conference. I went to camp and the moment I saw him running through drills, it was evident this was a beast of a man playing with boys. I had never seen anything like this in all my years as a Colts fan. I have several stories like that. 

 

You're really going to compare this front office to......   Bill Polian?

 

Seriously?       I don't think so.........

 

For me,  this front office has not earned the trust for me to feel confident that they've judged these players where the team has evaluated them.    

 

As I've been saying in post after post after post after post I hope I'm wrong......    but I fear I'm not.

 

I'll actually be happy if I'm wrong and the front office is right.    Because the team will be doing well if that's what happens.      Nothing would make me happier if the Colts do well.     I don't want to be a fan of a team that struggles to win --- especially with Andrew Luck as it's QB.

 

 

 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Because he's played in a spread system that is far from the NFL game.    Pretty much every draft evaluation site projected Clark as a guy who needs a year or so of serious NFL grooming.

 

They all love his upside.    They all love his physical tools.    But everyone agrees --- and so do the Colts --- that he's an unpolished gem that needs a lot of polishing.

 

This isn't an isolated opinion.

 

If he was a borderline first rounder like Grigson had him pegged as, he'll start for us, I'm sure of that. He'll have training camp to get our system down. Just look at the competition. Reitz, Good, and Thornton. He has to beat out two of them, doesn't matter which two as he can start at RG or RT. I'm pretty sure he'll get lots of leeway from Pagano and Grigson as long as he isn't terrible. Remember, Grigson drafted people in this draft to be starters, Clark isn't going to be wasted away on the bench when we need someone to protect Luck, if he is on the bench, then we're back to square one at the right side for next year. Also don't care what draft evaluation sites say, the opinion changes based on the situation of the team he goes too. Our situation says, our O-Line stinks, so you're starting over the less talented players on day 1 to protect a top 5 QB.

[BlueShoe]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're really going to compare this front office to......   Bill Polian?

 

Seriously?       I don't think so.........

 

For me,  this front office has not earned the trust for me to feel confident that they've judged these players where the team has evaluated them.    

 

As I've been saying in post after post after post after post I hope I'm wrong......    but I fear I'm not.

 

I'll actually be happy if I'm wrong and the front office is right.    Because the team will be doing well if that's what happens.      Nothing would make me happier if the Colts do well.     I don't want to be a fan of a team that struggles to win --- especially with Andrew Luck as it's QB.

 

 

 

 

You're losing me. I don't know what you mean about comparing this front office to Bill Polian. In some ways we have to compare our previous regime with the new. It's normal to do that. 

 

If you are implying that I am disrespecting Bill Polian in any way then you obviously don't know me very well. I am on record (very often) about how I believe Bill Polian is/was one of the greatest talent evaluators in the history of the NFL. He had faults; he was not perfect. I will never forgive him for trading away Marshall Faulk, but he has drafted some of the greatest players to ever play in the NFL.

 

I am not sure where you are going with this Bill Polian reply, but I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions without properly thinking it through. You really should understand my thoughts on Polian before you rush to judgement. 

 

This front office did not earn your trust in 2012? We went 11-5 with a rookie quarterback, after gutting our team, and having half of our salary cap in dead cap space. Grigson hit his first four picks out of the ball park. He walked up to the plate and hit four grand slams in a row. Granted Luck was a pretty easy choice, but there were many people on that RGIII wagon. 

 

I think your just looking the entire situation wrong. But we have to look at in a way that makes sense to us. I just cannot see where you are coming from. Your comments in this thread are odd to me. I am wondering if someone hacked your account. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If he was a borderline first rounder like Grigson had him pegged as, he'll start for us, I'm sure of that. He'll have training camp to get our system down. Just look at the competition. Reitz, Good, and Thornton. He has to beat out two of them, doesn't matter which two as he can start at RG or RT. I'm pretty sure he'll get lots of leeway from Pagano and Grigson as long as he isn't terrible. Remember, Grigson drafted people in this draft to be starters, Clark isn't going to be wasted away on the bench when we need someone to protect Luck, if he is on the bench, then we're back to square one at the right side for next year. Also don't care what draft evaluation sites say, the opinion changes based on the situation of the team he goes too. Our situation says, our O-Line stinks, so you're starting over the less talented players on day 1 to protect a top 5 QB.

 

I don't think we can make the statement that Grigson drafted players to start.

 

Green is not starting.    Not unless someone gets hurt.     And nor do I think Clark starts.    I can't begin to tell you how raw Clark is.     Put another way, if Clark starts,  then Philbin is up for the Assistant Coach of the year.

 

Over Thornton, or Good, or Reitz?      No.      Sorry,  but I don't see it.   

 

That's why I was so surprised at our draft -- we spent our 2 and 3 on guys who do not project to start.

 

The fact that we called one a first rounder (Green) and the other a borderline 1st rounder (Clark)  does not mean they start.     It means we love their ceiling.     We love what they'll be once their polished for a year.    I'll be beyond shocked if they play a lot more than just special teams.     Seriously.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

You're losing me. I don't know what you mean about comparing this front office to Bill Polian. In some ways we have to compare our previous regime with the new. It's normal to do that. 

 

If you are implying that I am disrespecting Bill Polian in any way then you obviously don't know me very well. I am on record (very often) about how I believe Bill Polian is/was one of the greatest talent evaluators in the history of the NFL. He had faults; he was not perfect. I will never forgive him for trading away Marshall Faulk, but he has drafted some of the greatest players to ever play in the NFL.

 

I am not sure where you are going with this Bill Polian reply, but I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions without properly thinking it through. You really should understand my thoughts on Polian before you rush to judgement. 

 

This front office did not earn your trust in 2012? We went 11-5 with a rookie quarterback, after gutting our team, and having half of our salary cap in dead cap space. Grigson hit his first four picks out of the ball park. He walked up to the plate and hit four grand slams in a row. Granted Luck was a pretty easy choice, but there were many people on that RGIII wagon. 

 

I think your just looking the entire situation wrong. But we have to look at in a way that makes sense to us. I just cannot see where you are coming from. Your comments in this thread are odd to me. I am wondering if someone hacked your account. 

 

No.    I'm NOT Implying that you're disrespecting Bill Polian. 

 

I'm implying that you're giving the current regime too much credit by comparing them to Bill Polian.

 

You can't compare this regime to Bill Polian.     It's too kind to this regime and too unfair to Polian.

 

One is a first ballot Hall of Famer,   the other almost got fired this off-season.

 

As for talking about 2012,  there is no poster on this website who has made that argument more than me.     So,  that's NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.

 

I'm saying on balance from 2012 to 2016,  this front office has not done a good enough job.     That's why I switched from supporting Grigson for 4 years to calling for him to lose his job.     The current roster is just not that good.   

 

It's midnight where I am....    I don't know where you live, so I don't know how late it is.....   but if you're still having trouble understanding me,  then you're either too tired and badly need sleep,  or you're too invested in winning an argument simply for the sake of winning an argument.

 

I know what I've written in post after post after post after post.    If you're still having trouble understanding me,  then that's a YOU problem, and not a ME problem.

 

Let's move on......

 

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think we can make the statement that Grigson drafted players to start.

 

Green is not starting.    Not unless someone gets hurt.     And nor do I think Clark starts.    I can't begin to tell you how raw Clark is.     Put another way, if Clark starts,  then Philbin is up for the Assistant Coach of the year.

 

Over Thornton, or Good, or Reitz?      No.      Sorry,  but I don't see it.   

 

That's why I was so surprised at our draft -- we spent our 2 and 3 on guys who do not project to start.

 

The fact that we called one a first rounder (Green) and the other a borderline 1st rounder (Clark)  does not mean they start.     It means we love their ceiling.     We love what they'll be once their polished for a year.    I'll be beyond shocked if they play a lot more than just special teams.     Seriously.

 

 

Completely Agree with you on Green just so you don't think I'm being ridiculous. He's very raw and Adams and Geathers are going to start over him while he learns. He'll play ST's for a year and maybe 15 snaps a game for Adams and Geathers when they come out. I don't see how Clark can't start if he is good enough, and I honestly don't see how you think Luck will survive another year with Good, Reitz and Thorton starting over Clark. None of them are starter material. You can say all you want about Clark being raw, but those guys will get Luck Killed. If Clark struggles to adapt to our system, don't start him, but I just don't see him being worse than Good, Reitz and Thornton. Maybe Reitz is better, but you grow with experience, and I think that's where we differ on this, is that you think Our current right side is better than Clark. If Clark shows promise in training camp, I think you have to start him. This isn't a WR, Luck was hurt last year and you have to protect your franchise QB.

 

Also, if Clark does sit for a year, then I don't know what Grigs was thinking either drafting a project. It would be a very irresponsible move when we need the protection now.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think we can make the statement that Grigson drafted players to start.

 

Green is not starting.    Not unless someone gets hurt.     And nor do I think Clark starts.    I can't begin to tell you how raw Clark is.     Put another way, if Clark starts,  then Philbin is up for the Assistant Coach of the year.

 

Over Thornton, or Good, or Reitz?      No.      Sorry,  but I don't see it.   

 

That's why I was so surprised at our draft -- we spent our 2 and 3 on guys who do not project to start.

 

...

 

 

Let's assume that the FO doesn't seriously believe that the team is in a shape for a deep SB this year, but very well could be next year after hopefully getting some top pass rush in the 2017 draft. Then it makes more sense. Not saying that is the case, but it certainly is a possibility. Just something to think about.  

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Completely Agree with you on Green just so you don't think I'm being ridiculous. He's very raw and Adams and Geathers are going to start over him while he learns. He'll play ST's for a year and maybe 15 snaps a game for Adams and Geathers when they come out. I don't see how Clark can't start if he is good enough, and I honestly don't see how you think Luck will survive another year with Good, Reitz and Thorton starting over Clark. None of them are starter material. You can say all you want about Clark being raw, but those guys will get Luck Killed. If Clark struggles to adapt to our system, don't start him, but I just don't see him being worse than Good, Reitz and Thornton. Maybe Reitz is better, but you grow with experience, and I think that's where we differ on this, is that you think Our current right side is better than Clark. If Clark shows promise in training camp, I think you have to start him. This isn't a WR, Luck was hurt last year and you have to protect your franchise QB.

 

Luck will survive because the line will be much better.

 

A -- Kelly will start and he will help the line tremendously.

 

B -- Thornton, Good and Reitz will improve tremendously under Philbin

 

C -- As a result of A and B, the line will improve.

 

Hey,  I could be wrong,  but everyone seems to agree that while Clark has fantastic physical tools,  his game is raw and unrefined and he's going to need a ton of work to get to a starting level.    I don't see it happening his rookie year.    I hope it happens for him in year two.

 

One last thought....  last year, Arizona drafted OT Humphries (forget his first name) and they sat him the entire season.    He didn't even dress for a single game.    That was the plan all along.    Humphries wasn't ready and he came from Florida.     But Arians said most college lineman -- even the best ones -- just aren't ready for the NFL level of competition.     Humphries may start this year.    But he played zero snaps last year.     A lineman like Clark not playing much his rookie year is not as strange as it sounds.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

 

Let's assume that the FO doesn't seriously believe that the team is in a shape for a deep SB this year, but very well could be next year after hopefully getting some top pass rush in the 2017 draft. Then it makes more sense. Not saying that is the case, but it certainly is a possibility. Just something to think about.  

 

Thank you.    Agreed.     I like the kids,  I just don't think they'll do much for the Colts in 2016.   But I see them playing a major roll,  perhaps even starting in 2017.     They both have very high ceilings.    Loads of talent.

 

But they both need polishing.    Lots of polishing.    It's going to take time.

 

I repeat,   I like both kids.    I just wouldn't expect much help from either this year.    But 2017?    Look out!

 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Luck will survive because the line will be much better.

 

A -- Kelly will start and he will help the line tremendously.

 

B -- Thornton, Good and Reitz will improve tremendously under Philbin

 

C -- As a result of A and B, the line will improve.

 

Hey,  I could be wrong,  but everyone seems to agree that while Clark has fantastic physical tools,  his game is raw and unrefined and he's going to need a ton of work to get to a starting level.    I don't see it happening his rookie year.    I hope it happens for him in year two.

 

One last thought....  last year, Arizona drafted OT Humphries (forget his first name) and they sat him the entire season.    He didn't even dress for a single game.    That was the plan all along.    Humphries wasn't ready and he came from Florida.     But Arians said most college lineman -- even the best ones -- just aren't ready for the NFL level of competition.     Humphries may start this year.    But he played zero snaps last year.     A lineman like Clark not playing much his rookie year is not as strange as it sounds.

Yeah I'm getting the feeling you are right here. It's a mistake to draft a O-Lineman for the future IMO, but hopefully Luck is ok. Just never been much of a fan or Reitz and Thornton, and I don't know how good Good is going to be. Little nervous and was excited for the Clark pick. O-Line is difficult to learn for sure, I guess Mewhort was kind of an exception to the rule?

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah I'm getting the feeling you are right here. It's a mistake to draft a O-Lineman for the future IMO, but hopefully Luck is ok. Just never been much of a fan or Reitz and Thornton, and I don't know how good Good is going to be. Little nervous and was excited for the Clark pick. O-Line is difficult to learn for sure, I guess Mewhort was kind of an exception to the rule?

 

I want to be clear about something -- the part I put into bold --  I hope I'm wrong!     I really do.   If Clark can step up and play meaningful snaps and not just special teams,  and play pretty well,  then I think that's great!   Good for Indy,  I hope that happens.     But my expectations are low....    very low.    Play on FG and extra points and that's about it....   maybe some snaps where we use 6 lineman might be interesting?      But that's all I'm expecting.

 

If it's more I'll be happy. 

 

I think Thornton, Reitz and Good have promise.    And I think Philbin was a GREAT off-season hire!    Seriously, one of my favorite hires and I'm someone who thought he was a terrible HC.    But the man can coach OL play.   So, maybe he coaches up a storm and Clark out-performs expectations?!     I hope so.    I'm just not expecting it.    I think it's safer that way for my mental health!