Offensive Line-Why is it so hard & my belief we have turned the corner

[loudnproudcolt]

Mods, you may want to move this to the NFL topics, but I felt the Colts OL line play has been such a point of contention on this board that the article was a very good piece to use when we look at the Colts OL play, how we judge them and what the future holds.

 

The article "In the line of Fire" just came out on CBS. I have long been one the many who have bemoaned the OL of the Colts. What really made me the angry was how

certain positions were seen as we can fill them with late rounders. The center position for me has been my point of contention for three years. I just did not understand why

we would not get a good center. I wanted us to go after Mack two years ago. When this draft came around, I and a couple others were vociferous in our support of taking Kelly. He was a plug and play from day one, who several talent evaluators felt was a pro bowler waiting to happen. This is what Mayock, who I like the most as a talent

evaluator had to say about Kelly:

"He is scheme diverse, and can play zone or man. He can play all three interior offensive line positions. He's as good a center prospect as I've seen in years. I think he will be a Pro Bowler."

 

Still, most posters to my surprise felt it was a reach to take Kelly at #18, and I understood due to many wanting a pass rusher, which is a desperate need, but I just did not agree with the thought. I cheered, jumped up and down when Goodell came to the podium and announced his name. Clark in the third, was just icing on the cake. In the last several years, when a Center is drafted in the first round, that player has gone on to be a Pro Bowler. I believe Pittsburgh selecting Pouncey was huge for their team. He has had injuries, but when healthy, he is the glue and the leader of the line. The OL needs someone to hold it together, and I believe Kelly will be this type of player, who is respected and will be a leader. The major problem for our pass rush was guys up the middle. No More!!!

 

So why am I posting this article. Well it is an interview of several lineman and the general atmosphere towards the OL. I have never heard so many people talking about

so many teams and saying how bad their OL was.

 

I have said for years one of the largest problems with lineman was they are coming out of the spread, which does not teach basics for blocking, and the coaching they receive when they get to the NFL is not looked at as an important point of emphasis. How many times do you hear someone ask, who is your OL coach?  I believe the draft of Kelly, pro system, and having Philbin as the OL coach were two major points in this off season which could lead to a special OL in time.

 

Many of the things these lineman say point to the same thing, and reinforce my thoughts, that we may have turned the corner if things go our

way, and coaching takes over and the talent listens. It is an interesting read.

 

One more thing, anyone who uses PFF and its analytics to judge players in general, yes it has some good uses, but is the end all? Just read what OL players said about it. They make some very interesting observations. Hard to grade players if you don't know the assignments on each play. Just a good read, and hopefully you will come with the same conclusion about the future of our OL.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25577288/in-the-line-of-fire

[AZColt11]

I got no problem with him at all.  I think the problem for some people is they feel most 1st rounders should be "position" guys like QB, RB, WR, etc.  This guy plays in the trenches and many feel those guys can be had later in the draft, and they can.  But when you have a prospect such as Mayock claims he is I don't see why it is such a "reach" to take him anywhere in the draft.  Put it this way, if this guy turns out to be the next Saturday then it will have been WELL worth the pick.  At worst he is likely a mere solid player for many years.

 

I was happy with the decision as well.  In truth, I was HOPING we could take one of the top pass rushers then address OL in round 2 but it didn't materialize.  Yes, Lawson was there but I'm not sure he is top level like Kelly is at his position.  They got the best prospect at his position in a position of need.  Great job IMHO.  Only time will tell if it was the right decision.

[Goatface Killah]

31 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I got no problem with him at all.  I think the problem for some people is they feel most 1st rounders should be "position" guys like QB, RB, WR, etc.  This guy plays in the trenches and many feel those guys can be had later in the draft, and they can.  But when you have a prospect such as Mayock claims he is I don't see why it is such a "reach" to take him anywhere in the draft.  Put it this way, if this guy turns out to be the next Saturday then it will have been WELL worth the pick.  At worst he is likely a mere solid player for many years.

 

I was happy with the decision as well.  In truth, I was HOPING we could take one of the top pass rushers then address OL in round 2 but it didn't materialize.  Yes, Lawson was there but I'm not sure he is top level like Kelly is at his position.  They got the best prospect at his position in a position of need.  Great job IMHO.  Only time will tell if it was the right decision.

I get that, but that kind of attitude is exactly why our line has been so disappointing. Its mostly these mid round picks that a lot of people seem to think are adequate. There is a reason guys like Kelly go in the first round despite that attitude. 

 

 

[Restored]

Like this piece a lot. It exposes a real problem going on in the NFL as a result of the CBA and college systems. I personally think both have been major contributing factors to the Colts bad offensive line play for years. There certainly has been some talent on the offensive but the lack of proper teaching techniques and practice time have made it next to impossible to take these guys to the next level successfully. Hopefully Joe Philbin will be able to compensate for some of that this year.

[AZColt11]

On 5/5/2016 at 4:37 AM, GoatBeard said:

I get that, but that kind of attitude is exactly why our line has been so disappointing. Its mostly these mid round picks that a lot of people seem to think are adequate. There is a reason guys like Kelly go in the first round despite that attitude. 

 

 

I getcha.  Again, I'm NOT disappointed with the outcome.  Not at all.  Just voicing what I was thinking before the draft took place.  I think in the end it will prove to be a wise decision for the Colts.  Ready to see what Kelly and the rest of these rooks can do.

[crazycolt1]

Putting a certain round on a certain position is being narrow minded IMO. Winning games in the NFL is a team game and having the best possible players across the board is the key.

[AZColt11]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Putting a certain round on a certain position is being narrow minded IMO. Winning games in the NFL is a team game and having the best possible players across the board is the key.

Very true.  Heck you gotta figure at LEAST one of the UDFA's will make it and contribute.  I think the Colts have the longest current streak of that happening for like the last 14 years!  My money would be on Maggitt.

[LockeDown]

I declared before the draft that I wanted the Colts to grab as many defensive linemen as possible because it's the best draft ever at that position.  Well every other team did the same thing and Grigson took advantage and took top offensive linemen which were deep as well and available. I thought he did a great job and I am very pleased especially with Kelly.

[a06cc]

Why compare Saturday to Kelly? Manning masked a lot of flaws with that line. Tarik was the best we had during those times. Once he left you seen the decline and the beginning of the end too Manning's era

[JR Indy]

Looking at what the Colts done in this year draft. I look at it like this, knowing what we know about Andrew Luck today.  If you had a choice at number 18 between Andrew Luck and a can't miss Edge OLB, or DE who would you choose.  

 

This is basically what the Colts did this whole draft.  Because if you draft a can't miss Edge OLB, or DE then you would not have Andrew Luck this year (not with the last year o-line).  Remember how the Colts could not generate a pass rush and below average QB's and WR's had career days against the Colts.

 

Can you imagine what Andrew Luck will do this year HEALTHY, WITH TIME(BECAUSE OF A NEW AND IMPROVED O-LINE PLAY), AND WITH THOSE WR'S. I personally think the AFC South is in deep trouble.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 5:09 PM, loudnproudcolt said:

Mods, you may want to move this to the NFL topics, but I felt the Colts OL line play has been such a point of contention on this board that the article was a very good piece to use when we look at the Colts OL play, how we judge them and what the future holds.

 

The article "In the line of Fire" just came out on CBS. I have long been one the many who have bemoaned the OL of the Colts. What really made me the angry was how

certain positions were seen as we can fill them with late rounders. The center position for me has been my point of contention for three years. I just did not understand why

we would not get a good center. I wanted us to go after Mack two years ago. When this draft came around, I and a couple others were vociferous in our support of taking Kelly. He was a plug and play from day one, who several talent evaluators felt was a pro bowler waiting to happen. This is what Mayock, who I like the most as a talent

evaluator had to say about Kelly:

"He is scheme diverse, and can play zone or man. He can play all three interior offensive line positions. He's as good a center prospect as I've seen in years. I think he will be a Pro Bowler."

 

Still, most posters to my surprise felt it was a reach to take Kelly at #18, and I understood due to many wanting a pass rusher, which is a desperate need, but I just did not agree with the thought. I cheered, jumped up and down when Goodell came to the podium and announced his name. Clark in the third, was just icing on the cake. In the last several years, when a Center is drafted in the first round, that player has gone on to be a Pro Bowler. I believe Pittsburgh selecting Pouncey was huge for their team. He has had injuries, but when healthy, he is the glue and the leader of the line. The OL needs someone to hold it together, and I believe Kelly will be this type of player, who is respected and will be a leader. The major problem for our pass rush was guys up the middle. No More!!!

 

So why am I posting this article. Well it is an interview of several lineman and the general atmosphere towards the OL. I have never heard so many people talking about

so many teams and saying how bad their OL was.

 

I have said for years one of the largest problems with lineman was they are coming out of the spread, which does not teach basics for blocking, and the coaching they receive when they get to the NFL is not looked at as an important point of emphasis. How many times do you hear someone ask, who is your OL coach?  I believe the draft of Kelly, pro system, and having Philbin as the OL coach were two major points in this off season which could lead to a special OL in time.

 

Many of the things these lineman say point to the same thing, and reinforce my thoughts, that we may have turned the corner if things go our

way, and coaching takes over and the talent listens. It is an interesting read.

 

One more thing, anyone who uses PFF and its analytics to judge players in general, yes it has some good uses, but is the end all? Just read what OL players said about it. They make some very interesting observations. Hard to grade players if you don't know the assignments on each play. Just a good read, and hopefully you will come with the same conclusion about the future of our OL.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25577288/in-the-line-of-fire

great post, I too believe our o-line is going to be better if not great

[TheRustonRifle#7]

On 5/4/2016 at 5:09 PM, loudnproudcolt said:

Mods, you may want to move this to the NFL topics, but I felt the Colts OL line play has been such a point of contention on this board that the article was a very good piece to use when we look at the Colts OL play, how we judge them and what the future holds.

 

The article "In the line of Fire" just came out on CBS. I have long been one the many who have bemoaned the OL of the Colts. What really made me the angry was how

certain positions were seen as we can fill them with late rounders. The center position for me has been my point of contention for three years. I just did not understand why

we would not get a good center. I wanted us to go after Mack two years ago. When this draft came around, I and a couple others were vociferous in our support of taking Kelly. He was a plug and play from day one, who several talent evaluators felt was a pro bowler waiting to happen. This is what Mayock, who I like the most as a talent

evaluator had to say about Kelly:

"He is scheme diverse, and can play zone or man. He can play all three interior offensive line positions. He's as good a center prospect as I've seen in years. I think he will be a Pro Bowler."

 

Still, most posters to my surprise felt it was a reach to take Kelly at #18, and I understood due to many wanting a pass rusher, which is a desperate need, but I just did not agree with the thought. I cheered, jumped up and down when Goodell came to the podium and announced his name. Clark in the third, was just icing on the cake. In the last several years, when a Center is drafted in the first round, that player has gone on to be a Pro Bowler. I believe Pittsburgh selecting Pouncey was huge for their team. He has had injuries, but when healthy, he is the glue and the leader of the line. The OL needs someone to hold it together, and I believe Kelly will be this type of player, who is respected and will be a leader. The major problem for our pass rush was guys up the middle. No More!!!

 

So why am I posting this article. Well it is an interview of several lineman and the general atmosphere towards the OL. I have never heard so many people talking about

so many teams and saying how bad their OL was.

 

I have said for years one of the largest problems with lineman was they are coming out of the spread, which does not teach basics for blocking, and the coaching they receive when they get to the NFL is not looked at as an important point of emphasis. How many times do you hear someone ask, who is your OL coach?  I believe the draft of Kelly, pro system, and having Philbin as the OL coach were two major points in this off season which could lead to a special OL in time.

 

Many of the things these lineman say point to the same thing, and reinforce my thoughts, that we may have turned the corner if things go our

way, and coaching takes over and the talent listens. It is an interesting read.

 

One more thing, anyone who uses PFF and its analytics to judge players in general, yes it has some good uses, but is the end all? Just read what OL players said about it. They make some very interesting observations. Hard to grade players if you don't know the assignments on each play. Just a good read, and hopefully you will come with the same conclusion about the future of our OL.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/feature/25577288/in-the-line-of-fire

Good read and I couldn't agree more with you in regards to PFF! ;)

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

I liked the part about there being so many in the NFL that are just along for the ride. $$$
Khalid Holmes bagged a Kool $1.9M in his 3 seasons. Not bad for his 1st 3 years out of college.
 And he didn`t appear to improve at all under the Colts Leadership & Coaching.
 And he wasn`t alone.

 So in this article there are 4 guys that decided they better be Professionals Now, and to get the training they needed all along so they can hold on to their jobs. How nice.
 For those that have many years of watching Good Blockers, if you take the Time to watch an individual blocker, it still LOOKS the same. And therefore it really isn`t difficult to judge a modern players abilities at being good at his job.
 As for PFF, it`s accumulation of the numbers gives an idea where a player stands.
 But if You haven`t examined every play closely, you may end up considerably off track on how truly effective a player has been.