Grading the current roster

[rock8591]

I'm gonna pull a PFF and grade the current roster. In the interest of not overrating any players, I graded them lower if there was any doubt.

 

Here's what I predict the Final 53 to be, give or take a few players in the 2nd/3rd string.

 

A few remarks - we can clearly see the yellow-orange-red for the LBs, notably OLBs. A super bowl team needs elite/high quality players at those positions. The only front 7 player that we can say is "impact player" that demands a double team is Henry Anderson.
 

If Jones can return to 2012-2014 form, Parry and Anderson takes it up to the next level, and we manage to find some play makers in Hassan Ridgeway, Antonio Morrison, Clayton Geathers, and TJ Green, then we're looking at a scary defense.

 

Same can be said if Clark, Haeg, Good, and Thornton even become halfway average.

[Tracy Denton]

8 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

I'm gonna pull a PFF and grade the current roster. In the interest of not overrating any players, I graded them lower if there was any doubt.

 

Here's what I predict the Final 53 to be, give or take a few players in the 2nd/3rd string.

 

A few remarks - we can clearly see the yellow-orange-red for the LBs, notably OLBs. A super bowl team needs elite/high quality players at those positions. The only front 7 player that we can say is "impact player" that demands a double team is Henry Anderson.
 

If Jones can return to 2012-2014 form, Parry and Anderson takes it up to the next level, and we manage to find some play makers in Hassan Ridgeway, Antonio Morrison, Clayton Geathers, and TJ Green, then we're looking at a scary defense.

 

Same can be said if Clark, Haeg, Good, and Thornton even become halfway average.

BOOM is not on the roster.

[NorthernBlue]

How is Henry Anderson considered a solid starter, but Anthony Castanzo isn't?

[rock8591]

37 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

How is Henry Anderson considered a solid starter, but Anthony Castanzo isn't?

 

H.A. was considered to be in the running for DROY before injury. Multiple sources considered his performance to be top 5-9 3-4 DE in the league.

 

Castonzo was a top 15 LT.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 hours ago, rock8591 said:

I'm gonna pull a PFF and grade the current roster. In the interest of not overrating any players, I graded them lower if there was any doubt.

 

Here's what I predict the Final 53 to be, give or take a few players in the 2nd/3rd string.

 

A few remarks - we can clearly see the yellow-orange-red for the LBs, notably OLBs. A super bowl team needs elite/high quality players at those positions. The only front 7 player that we can say is "impact player" that demands a double team is Henry Anderson.
 

If Jones can return to 2012-2014 form, Parry and Anderson takes it up to the next level, and we manage to find some play makers in Hassan Ridgeway, Antonio Morrison, Clayton Geathers, and TJ Green, then we're looking at a scary defense.

 

Same can be said if Clark, Haeg, Good, and Thornton even become halfway average.

 

Vinatieri should be in the elite category if Pat is in the elite category.  I would also put Snow in a higher category, as I think he has quietly been one of our most solid/reliable players in terms of doing what he is expected to do in his job description.

 

Gore is a solid starter, at least -- he just ran behind a pretty terrible line last year.

 

Costanzo is solid.

 

Walden, based on his play last year, should be at least average.

 

Arthur Jones, when healthy, is solid.

 

Anderson is coming of a pretty major injury for a big guy -- I don't expect him to be fully healthy until middle or end of this coming season.

 

D'Qwell, I would make a solid player.  He lead the AFC in combined tackles each of the past 2 years.  Sure, he has had some moments where he is exposed in the passing game, but he has been somewhere between solid and elite in run defense.

 

I don't think we know enough about the OL yet to start projecting depth charts or assigning grades because we have multiple players who can play multiple positions and likely have a different value at each one -- (e.g., Mewhort, Reitz, Good, Clark, and Haeg can all play T or G, whereas Blythe and Holmes can both play C or G). 

 

I would also assign an 'unknown' grade to Geathers, as we have only seen him in very limited action in the role he will be in this year, and I think it's safe to say we can expect him to have improved as a football player.

 

Butler, if he is expected to start on the outside, is probably below average, but in the slot he is at least an average player (I'd put him in solid as a 3rd CB).

 

The RB's need to be updated -- and being that their play can be heavily influenced by the play of our OL, I would consider it too early to grade guys we haven't seen in the horseshoe yet, as well as Tyler Varga because we don't know how healthy he will be.

 

 

[BOTT]

Luck is elite....by their chart anyway.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Luck is elite....by their chart anyway.

His kidney is not anymore

 

 

 

I'm kidding for those that have trouble with jokes

[IndyD4U]

I appreciate the effort, however there is a lot that I disagree with on there. 

[rock8591]

6 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Vinatieri should be in the elite category if Pat is in the elite category.  I would also put Snow in a higher category, as I think he has quietly been one of our most solid/reliable players in terms of doing what he is expected to do in his job description.

 

Gore is a solid starter, at least -- he just ran behind a pretty terrible line last year.

 

Costanzo is solid.

 

Walden, based on his play last year, should be at least average.

 

Arthur Jones, when healthy, is solid.

 

Anderson is coming of a pretty major injury for a big guy -- I don't expect him to be fully healthy until middle or end of this coming season.

 

D'Qwell, I would make a solid player.  He lead the AFC in combined tackles each of the past 2 years.  Sure, he has had some moments where he is exposed in the passing game, but he has been somewhere between solid and elite in run defense.

 

I don't think we know enough about the OL yet to start projecting depth charts or assigning grades because we have multiple players who can play multiple positions and likely have a different value at each one -- (e.g., Mewhort, Reitz, Good, Clark, and Haeg can all play T or G, whereas Blythe and Holmes can both play C or G). 

 

I would also assign an 'unknown' grade to Geathers, as we have only seen him in very limited action in the role he will be in this year, and I think it's safe to say we can expect him to have improved as a football player.

 

Butler, if he is expected to start on the outside, is probably below average, but in the slot he is at least an average player (I'd put him in solid as a 3rd CB).

 

The RB's need to be updated -- and being that their play can be heavily influenced by the play of our OL, I would consider it too early to grade guys we haven't seen in the horseshoe yet, as well as Tyler Varga because we don't know how healthy he will be.

 

 

 

Who is Snow?

 

Jones I factored in injury history the past 2 years, along with him being 30 in a few months. Also when healthy, I wouldn't place as Solid/High Quality; for 3-4 DEs, I'd consider Watt, Wilkerson, Richardson as elite. Fletcher Cox, Calais Campbell, Mike Daniels as Solid.

 

Anderson misses 4 games max.

 

Gore in retrospect should receive a Good grade instead of Average due to the line's problems the past few years.

 

 

 

 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

7 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

Who is Snow?

 

Jones I factored in injury history the past 2 years, along with him being 30 in a few months. Also when healthy, I wouldn't place as Solid/High Quality; for 3-4 DEs, I'd consider Watt, Wilkerson, Richardson as elite. Fletcher Cox, Calais Campbell, Mike Daniels as Solid.

 

Anderson misses 4 games max.

 

Gore in retrospect should receive a Good grade instead of Average due to the line's problems the past few years.

 

 

 

 

 

By Snow, I meant Overton.  He has been a very, very solid (if not spectacular) long-snapper for us since he's been here.

 

I'm not arguing how many games Anderson misses or doesn't miss, I just don't think we can be fully confident that he will bounce back to the form he was in before injury this coming year.  A torn ACL isn't the easiest injury to return to full form from, especially when you're 300 lbs and rely very heavily on using your knees to leverage and almost every play have other 300 + lbs. men driving you back where you have to plant almost all your weight on your legs.

[rock8591]

Here's my updated chart.

 

I upgraded Walden to Average. I figure, better to downgrade than upgrade if Grigson is reading this forum.

 

Otherwise, I created another category called "Rookie."

 

 

[crazycolt1]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 9:19 PM, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Vinatieri should be in the elite category if Pat is in the elite category.  I would also put Snow in a higher category, as I think he has quietly been one of our most solid/reliable players in terms of doing what he is expected to do in his job description.

 

Gore is a solid starter, at least -- he just ran behind a pretty terrible line last year.

 

Costanzo is solid.

 

Walden, based on his play last year, should be at least average.

 

Arthur Jones, when healthy, is solid.

 

Anderson is coming of a pretty major injury for a big guy -- I don't expect him to be fully healthy until middle or end of this coming season.

 

D'Qwell, I would make a solid player.  He lead the AFC in combined tackles each of the past 2 years.  Sure, he has had some moments where he is exposed in the passing game, but he has been somewhere between solid and elite in run defense.

 

I don't think we know enough about the OL yet to start projecting depth charts or assigning grades because we have multiple players who can play multiple positions and likely have a different value at each one -- (e.g., Mewhort, Reitz, Good, Clark, and Haeg can all play T or G, whereas Blythe and Holmes can both play C or G). 

 

I would also assign an 'unknown' grade to Geathers, as we have only seen him in very limited action in the role he will be in this year, and I think it's safe to say we can expect him to have improved as a football player.

 

Butler, if he is expected to start on the outside, is probably below average, but in the slot he is at least an average player (I'd put him in solid as a 3rd CB).

 

The RB's need to be updated -- and being that their play can be heavily influenced by the play of our OL, I would consider it too early to grade guys we haven't seen in the horseshoe yet, as well as Tyler Varga because we don't know how healthy he will be.

 

 

Vinny wasn't even in the top ten field goal kicker in the league last year. Matter of fact he was rated 19th last season.

[Dustin]

Wow that's suprisingly accurate.

[Dustin]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Vinny wasn't even in the top ten field goal kicker in the league last year. Matter of fact he was rated 19th last season.

 

What are you talking about? He had the 4th highest made% in the league.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

9 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Here's my updated chart.

 

I upgraded Walden to Average. I figure, better to downgrade than upgrade if Grigson is reading this forum.

 

Otherwise, I created another category called "Rookie."

 

 

Look at the bright side: we only have two confirmed poor starters!

[SteelCityColt]

I agree with @Dustin , that's a pretty fair assessment of the roster as things stand now. The only change I'd probably make would be downgrade Anderson by a step factoring in coming back from his injury.

 

 

[CoachLite]

The problem I have with this discussion is that it is based upon a static assessment from past performance. The real issue is the dynamics - from "being to becoming". Who is becoming better, who is becoming worse, and who is staying (even becoming) about the same? The biggest unknown (to me) is the quality of the new coaching staff's ability to improve individual player performance. I have not been very confident in our coaches' past performance, but they, too, are becoming, not being. Stay tuned, and we'll see which way they go.

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

What are you talking about? He had the 4th highest made% in the league.

So you want to overlook everything but percentages? Nice of you to be selective.

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you want to overlook everything but percentages? Nice of you to be selective.

 

Like what? Maybe for once you could just admit how hilariously misinformed you are.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you want to overlook everything but percentages? Nice of you to be selective.

He missed a couple to start the season. We didn't score much last year, but every team including the Pats (and Panthers and Vikings) wish they had him in the postseason last year.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Not a fan of these grades 

[Chucklez]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

He missed a couple to start the season. We didn't score much last year, but every team including the Pats (and Panthers and Vikings) wish they had him in the postseason last year.

The Jags certainly would have beaten us twice last year if they had Vinny.

[chrisfarley]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 8:01 PM, rock8591 said:

 

H.A. was considered to be in the running for DROY before injury. Multiple sources considered his performance to be top 5-9 3-4 DE in the league.

 

Castonzo was a top 15 LT.

Anderson's knee injury is a concern,,,,not a good position to rip your knee to shreds.  have to wonder about his capabilities this season, really have to wonder.

[rock8591]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you want to overlook everything but percentages? Nice of you to be selective.

 

LOL. Kickers are graded by percentage of kicks made. What else do you grade them by?

Yards per rush? Return yards?

 

I coudn't tell if your comment was sarcasm because it makes no sense.

[rock8591]

35 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

Anderson's knee injury is a concern,,,,not a good position to rip your knee to shreds.  have to wonder about his capabilities this season, really have to wonder.

ACL injuries are nothing nowadays, compared with the past. Unless we're talking about nerve damage. Plus, he was able to walk off on own power.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you want to overlook everything but percentages? Nice of you to be selective.

 

Please elaborate on what is more important than making the kick more often than not making the kick.

 

Kicking a 65 yarder is great, unless you only make half the field goals you attempt and lose a playoff game on a 23 yarder wide right...

 

I'll take Mr. Automatic, even if he can't hit anything over 50 this year.  The majority of kicks are going to be 25 yd extra points anyway.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Vinny wasn't even in the top ten field goal kicker in the league last year. Matter of fact he was rated 19th last season.

 

How are you judging that?  By points scored?

 

Not the way I would judge it, especially b/c our offense was subpar last year and didn't give him a lot of scoring opportunities.

 

If you look at FG% he was 4th in the league at 92.6% (25/27 -- with one miss on a 50+ yarder and another miss being between 20-30 yards).

 

He was the only kicker in the league to attempt at least 8 40-50 yard field goals and be perfect on his conversion of them.  Only one other kicker in the league was perfect from that range, from Tennessee who was 7 for 7.

 

He was 4 for 5 from 50+, only one kicker that attempted 4 or more kicks from 50+ was perfect (Seattle's kicker was 6 for 6).

 

As an FYI, the highest % in the league was 93.8%, all Adam would have needed to do to get that would be to have been given the opportunity to have 5 more FG attempts.

 

In 2014, Adam lead the league with a 96.8%, and was 6th in scoring (having a decent offense, it turns out, makes a huge difference in a kickers ability to score points). Had Adam been given 5 more opportunities to kick FG's last season, he would likely have wound up as the top rated FG % and 6th leading scorer.

 

Tell me again how Adam Vinatieri is not an elite kicker, please.

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

How are you judging that?  By points scored?

 

Not the way I would judge it, especially b/c our offense was subpar last year and didn't give him a lot of scoring opportunities.

 

If you look at FG% he was 4th in the league at 92.6% (25/27 -- with one miss on a 50+ yarder and another miss being between 20-30 yards).

 

He was the only kicker in the league to attempt at least 8 40-50 yard field goals and be perfect on his conversion of them.  Only one other kicker in the league was perfect from that range, from Tennessee who was 7 for 7.

 

He was 4 for 5 from 50+, only one kicker that attempted 4 or more kicks from 50+ was perfect (Seattle's kicker was 6 for 6).

 

As an FYI, the highest % in the league was 93.8%, all Adam would have needed to do to get that would be to have been given the opportunity to have 5 more FG attempts.

 

In 2014, Adam lead the league with a 96.8%, and was 6th in scoring (having a decent offense, it turns out, makes a huge difference in a kickers ability to score points). Had Adam been given 5 more opportunities to kick FG's last season, he would likely have wound up as the top rated FG % and 6th leading scorer.

 

Tell me again how Adam Vinatieri is not an elite kicker, please.

 

 

 

Exactly where did I say Vinny was not an elite kicker?  I just stated facts. And the fact is he was rated 19th in the league last season.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Exactly where did I say Vinny was not an elite kicker?  I just stated facts. And the fact is he was rated 19th in the league last season.

 

Replying to a post in which I said Vinny should be rated as elite with a post saying he was "not even a top 10 kicker in the league..." implies that you are suggesting he is not elite.

 

Our offense sucked last year, Vinny didn't have the opportunities to kick FGs like kickers from at least 22 other teams did.  That isn't a reflection of him -- he was one of only 4 K's in the league with over a 92% accuracy rating after being the only kicker in the league >95% in 2014.

 

Vinny is an elite kicker in the NFL, even at his age.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Replying to a post in which I said Vinny should be rated as elite with a post saying he was "not even a top 10 kicker in the league..." implies that you are suggesting he is not elite.

 

Our offense sucked last year, Vinny didn't have the opportunities to kick FGs like kickers from at least 22 other teams did.  That isn't a reflection of him -- he was one of only 4 K's in the league with over a 92% accuracy rating after being the only kicker in the league >95% in 2014.

 

Vinny is an elite kicker in the NFL, even at his age.

So stating facts is implying? Glad you took the opportunity to put your own words and meaning to my comments.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 9:29 PM, jvan1973 said:

His kidney is not anymore

 

 

 

I'm kidding for those that have trouble with jokes

There does seem to be a problem with a lot being taken way too serious by a few. We all have different opinions but it seems that is not allowed.

[Defjamz26]

I'm assuming the basis for Vontae not being elite is because he had a down season in 2015? I'm okay with that if that's the case.

 

And what's the logic for Hilton not being elite? Are we still on that "He's no a real number 1" nonsense?

[Dustin]

17 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So stating facts is implying? Glad you took the opportunity to put your own words and meaning to my comments.

 

You didn't state any facts. You just went on one your uninformed tangents. 

[jvan1973]

44 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Exactly where did I say Vinny was not an elite kicker?  I just stated facts. And the fact is he was rated 19th in the league last season.

What metric had him rated 19th?

[Jason_]

58 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I'm assuming the basis for Vontae not being elite is because he had a down season in 2015? I'm okay with that if that's the case.

 

And what's the logic for Hilton not being elite? Are we still on that "He's no a real number 1" nonsense?

 

A WR can be a real #1 and still not be elite.  I wouldn't put Hilton in the elite category right now.  

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

What metric had him rated 19th?

TR NFL player stats and rankings.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

You didn't state any facts. You just went on one your uninformed tangents. 

TR NFL player stats and rankings just for your information.

[jvan1973]

15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

TR NFL player stats and rankings.

What criteria did they use to come up with the ranking?

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I'm assuming the basis for Vontae not being elite is because he had a down season in 2015? I'm okay with that if that's the case.

 

And what's the logic for Hilton not being elite? Are we still on that "He's no a real number 1" nonsense?

 

 It is Easy to put together a top 10 WR list without Ty on it!
 And Nice Job on your player evaluations.
   I do predict Another Scary defense. lol

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

A WR can be a real #1 and still not be elite.  I wouldn't put Hilton in the elite category right now.  

That's fine. I just wanted to know what the reasoning was behind him not being elite. He has elite production against elite competition and like Hopkins and Gordon, has done it without elite QB play (at least in 2015).