Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Colts select T.J. Green, DB, Clemson


21isSuperman

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

 

 

9359161.jpg

 

Me btw^^^

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 250
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Just now, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

 

If you watched him play you NEVER saw him at corner. Not sure why you'd choose to rate him as a corner based off of his film. He's a safety, unless you're a zone/bail coverage team, which the Colts are not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

Most likely did in my opinion and a guy that may play some Nickel at some point if he plays Corner but Safety he should be.....Adams place when he retires. I have not read or watched his interview with the team yet so don't quote me on what I think he will do. Just an opinion. But special teams his first year will be #1 duty

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

what would you expect being he was a WR his first 3 years then moved to S last year?...like i said development.  Pagano can teach him for a year.

 

I'm pretty sure he got moved from WR because he's not good at tracking the ball over his shoulder. He's actually not bad in coverage, but he gives up big plays over the top because he doesn't track the ball well. He has some spatial awareness issues, also. Some classic man coverage training -- stick to your man, use your body, lean, maintain contact, read the receiver, etc. -- will help him in coverage. He has the tools and he contests everything that comes his way, which isn't really all that much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

 

Almost everyone had him ahead of Thompson. Everyone had him ahead of Russell, Cash, etc. 

 

He wasn't really on my radar, but I don't understand why people are acting like this is some terrible pick. I don't get people right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Mayock had him ranked as a 4th round safety.  Not sure how he'd project him as a corner, but that doesn't bode well.  Of course, analysts can be wrong.

 

He's Mayock's 73rd player. How was he a 4th round guy?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm pretty sure he got moved from WR because he's not good at tracking the ball over his shoulder. He's actually not bad in coverage, but he gives up big plays over the top because he doesn't track the ball well. He has some spatial awareness issues, also. Some classic man coverage training -- stick to your man, use your body, lean, maintain contact, read the receiver, etc. -- will help him in coverage. He has the tools and he contests everything that comes his way, which isn't really all that much. 

 

I read that he was moved from WR because his hands were simply not good enough to play the position. Don't remember the source and too tired to dig it up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I read that he was moved from WR because his hands were simply not good enough to play the position. Don't remember the source and too tired to dig it up. 

 

Not a surprise. Lots of DBs get converted from WR because they can't catch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Superman said:

 

Almost everyone had him ahead of Thompson. Everyone had him ahead of Russell, Cash, etc. 

 

He wasn't really on my radar, but I don't understand why people are acting like this is some terrible pick. I don't get people right now.

Mostly cause his coverage grade and lack of experience look pretty damning for a 2nd round pick. Personally if we were going Safety in the 2nd I would have preferred Byard. As has been quite clear though I was pretty well set on Fackrell or Calhoun...Both of whom I would have taken before Byard or Green

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hadnt seen a single snap from him but saw a couple of games...I can see the team using him to cover TE which is fine...the problem is that would mean Geathers as FS -- not good

 

of course im basing everything i just said on a game...and i might be completely wrong

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Gavin said:

Mostly cause his coverage grade and lack of experience look pretty damning for a 2nd round pick. Personally if we were going Safety in the 2nd I would have preferred Byard. As has been quite clear though I was pretty well set on Fackrell or Calhoun...Both of whom I would have taken before Byard or Green

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

YOu know way more than i do. Is he truly a center fielder? or is he a matchup with TE type of guy who can also go cover a WR on some plays?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

I have a few Clemson games on DVR from 2015. I also have not watched a lot of him...Enough to say I think he is a box Safety at this point...... but I do know that PFF does verify with the Pro Coach Network who claims to have over 400 years combined experience. Not that PFF is the end all be all...and they don't claim to be. I will have to focus more exclusively on him. When I was watching Clemson I was usually just watching Clemson or watching Shaq or Dodd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

YOu know way more than i do. Is he truly a center fielder? or is he a matchup with TE type of guy who can also go cover a WR on some plays?

 

He's at his best in the box playing robber. He has a lot of work to do in man coverage so I wouldn't be excited about him covering TEs and WRs right now, although he has the tools and has some reps on tape of doing a decent job of it. He also has some busted coverages due to not tracking the ball well. He'll come down and support the run, and he arrives at the ball with authority. He's also reckless in both phases, which is fun when he gets it right, but predictably awful when he gets it wrong. 

 

Just give him some time, if he puts it together and refines his fundamentals, he'll be very good. 

 

Or we can just trash the tape and base everything off of his PFF grade...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's at his best in the box playing robber. He has a lot of work to do in man coverage so I wouldn't be excited about him covering TEs and WRs right now, although he has the tools and has some reps on tape of doing a decent job of it. He also has some busted coverages due to not tracking the ball well. He'll come down and support the run, and he arrives at the ball with authority. He's also reckless in both phases, which is fun when he gets it right, but predictably awful when he gets it wrong. 

 

Just give him some time, if he puts it together and refines his fundamentals, he'll be very good. 

 

Or we can just trash the tape and base everything off of his PFF grade...

Yea the game i saw (louisville) he was fine playing robber...he was playing that a lot. I thought we would use him there as covering TE cause of his size/speed and he can decently cover but since we play lots of cover  1 i guess maybe that will be his  role 

 

they also used him alot near the line of scrimmage which confuses me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

I have a few Clemson games on DVR from 2015. I also have not watched a lot of him but I do know that PFF does verify with the Pro Coach Network who claims to have over 400 years combined experience. Not that PFF is the end all be all...and they don't claim to be. I will have to focus more exclusively on him. When I was watching Clemson I was usually just watching Clemson or watching Shaq or Dodd

 

I'm gonna go back and watch the coaches broadcast of that championship game. I rewatched it to watch Alexander, now I have to watch Green. I already know he blew at least two coverages, but he also had some good plays.

 

As for PFF, I've seen enough stuff in their grades that I don't agree with to know that I don't value their grades all that much. Their charting is very valuable, but they don't make that available anymore, soo...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green, S, Clemson A- Grade 
The Colts moved down and obtained a prospect who could've been chosen a bit earlier than this selection. I like it. T.J. Green is highly athletic, and it's possible that he might be able to play cornerback in the NFL. If not, he can settle in at safety, which was also a huge need for the Colts entering this weekend. 
 

From walterfootball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

Yea the game i saw (louisville) he was fine playing robber...he was playing that a lot. I thought we would use him there as covering TE cause of his size/speed and he can decently cover but since we play lots of cover  1 i guess maybe that will be his  role 

 

they also used him alot near the line of scrimmage which confuses me

 

He's good near the line of scrimmage, IMO.

 

He can become a centerfield FS over time. He's more than rangy enough. But if the Colts like interchangeable safeties like they say they do, then he's a good fit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm gonna go back and watch the coaches broadcast of that championship game. I rewatched it to watch Alexander, now I have to watch Green. I already know he blew at least two coverages, but he also had some good plays.

 

As for PFF, I've seen enough stuff in their grades that I don't agree with to know that I don't value their grades all that much. Their charting is very valuable, but they don't make that available anymore, soo...

I'm not sure I have seen PFF's charting. If I have seen it posted on here I have not recognized it as their charting. I'm very much considering purchasing from PFF but not sure which one to actually purchase....Premium stats or Player Grades or both so I have held off until someone can give me more info so I can make a more informed decision

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

I'm not sure I have seen PFF's charting. If I have seen it posted on here I have not recognized it as their charting. I'm very much considering purchasing from PFF but not sure which one to actually purchase....Premium stats or Player Grades or both so I have held off until someone can give me more info so I can make a more informed decision

 

They don't offer premium stats anymore.

 

Stuff like passer rating against is an example of their charting. It was available in premium stats; now they just trickle that stuff out in pieces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think they have intentions on playing him at cornerback.  I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.   My gut still says they want to convert him into a cornerback.  What they do with these next couple moves will tell me everything I need to know.  He's got the athleticism to play either one, but I think they want him at corner.  The safety tape doesn't excite me all that much overall.  We'll see......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I still think they have intentions on playing him at cornerback.  I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.   My gut still says they want to convert him into a cornerback.  What they do with these next couple moves will tell me everything I need to know.  He's got the athleticism to play either one, but I think they want him at corner.  The safety tape doesn't excite me all that much overall.  We'll see......

 

I watched the press conference tonight with Grigson and Pagano. They asked Pagano about TJ and Geathers being their safeties of the future and how they fit together. Pagano specifically said they view them as safeties and not one as a FS and the other as SS. They see them as interchangeable. I didn't get the impression they have any plans of TJ as a CB from listening to that press conference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If you watched him play you NEVER saw him at corner. Not sure why you'd choose to rate him as a corner based off of his film. He's a safety, unless you're a zone/bail coverage team, which the Colts are not.

 

I rated him as a corner mostly due to the first exposure to him was corner at next level and his length.  When. I watched I didn't see traits I liked for being a corner and I rated him lower.  Granted I didn't have enough interest in him to see in another light and yes I saw he was playing a ton of box safety but I would largely just take his tackling from those which weren't exactly flattering and kicked him to the wayside.  Yes I do think he translates better to safety now in retrospect that was not what I was eyeing for. My bad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

 

I know no one had him rated 6th.  I said I did.  And main reason because I didn't like much about him as a corner because when I was first exposed to him he was said to be a corner at the next level.

 

Plus I didn't have much interest to say oh wait if he's a safety, which I guess I should have since he played a ton of box safety but honestly he wasn't very high on my watch list when viewing Clemson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Most likely did in my opinion and a guy that may play some Nickel at some point if he plays Corner but Safety he should be.....Adams place when he retires. I have not read or watched his interview with the team yet so don't quote me on what I think he will do. Just an opinion. But special teams his first year will be #1 duty

 

I agree. 

 

I still don't like some of his tendencies when he tackles and since he won't be doing much pedal and flip I can see the attraction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

 

That's not what I saw, you're making him sound like Geathers and he's not that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

There are others who have thought of him in the corner sense as well.  He has even said he's played slot corner himself:

 

 

At 6-3 and 205 pounds, the Colts are getting a very intriguing frame to add to their secondary. Green played safety in college, yet his speed (4.34 40-yard dash) has some believing he could line up at cornerback in the NFL. A converted wide receiver, Green started just one season at Clemson and left with a year of eligibility. Green’s Combine numbers were eye popping, with his 40-yard dash the second fastest of any defensive back, blowing the other safeties out of the water. Green finished 2015 with 130 tackles (102 solo). He had 13 solo stops in Clemson’s Orange Bowl win over Oklahoma (where Green said he also played some slot corner, opposite second-round pick Sterling Shepard).
 

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Draft-Clemson-Safety-TJ-Green-In-Second-Round/ca45749b-51f2-4042-9213-0dca113ba0bd

 

 

Corner was my hunch.   He's very capable of playing safety no doubt.  I just don't think he's very physical.  He's not Gerod Holiman by any stretch of the imagination.  I could see them coaching him up to be much better in coverage back there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

That's not what I saw, you're making him sound like Geathers and he's not that.

 

I wish DB's gif maker still worked...

 

At 1:26, who's that taking down Derrick Henry? At 1:40, who's that flying down into the box to take on Derrick Henry? At 3:10, who's that taking down Derrick Henry? At 5:55, who's that at the bottom of the pile? At 9:18, who's that stopping Henry at the goal line?

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/t-j-green-vs-alabama-2015-2/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

To be fair it's because Mayock himself said it live during the draft.  He may have argued against himself but I heard that as well. 

 

I didn't hear Mayock say that. My bad. That's kind of dumb though, if he's your 73rd player...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Popular Now

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • My sleepers: (meaning, the kind of players coaches would like to have, more than what consensus big board gives credit to them. Some of them might need couple of years to attain their high potential, if drafted into suitable coaching environment, so a lot depends on that. Some of them have injury concerns too).   Most of them are high IQ players or high-effort, high-motor players - two traits I look for from the Drafted players, list is long but I like these guys.. gonna be interesting to see where they land and how it works out for them in long run.    Payton Wilson, LB, NC State Caelen Carson, CB, Wake Forest Kiran Amegadjie, OT, Yale Maason Smith, IDL, LSU Christian Mahogany, OG, Boston College Max Melton, CB, Rutgers Zak Zinter, OG, Michigan Bucky Irving, RB, Oregon Khyree Jackson, CB Oregon Dylan McMahon, C, NC State (good fit for Browns)  Tykee Smith, SAF, Georgia Ainias Smith, WR, Texas A&M Cam Hart, CB, Notre Dame Michael Barrett, LB Michigan Malachi Corley, WR, Western Kentucky Beaux Limmer, IOL, Arkansas   Kamren Kinchens, S, Miami McKinnley Jackson, IDL, Texas A&M Kalen King, CB, Penn State Justin Eboigbe, IDL, Alabama    Jacob Cowing, WR, Arizona Beau Brade, SAF, Maryland Isaac Guerendo, RB, Louisville Jalyx Hunt, EDGE, Houston Christian (I'm hoping for day 3 Vikings pickup, as Flores could work wonders with him)  Jaheim Bell, TE, Florida State Brennan Jackson, EDGE, Washington State  Delmar Glaze, OT, Maryland Myles Cole, EDGE, Texas Tech Kristian Boyd, DT, Northern Iowa Javontae Jean-Baptiste, DL, Notre Dame Jordan Magee, LB, Temple Myles Harden, CB, South Dakota Jalen Green, EDGE, James Madison (UDFA Target prospect)  Trey Taylor, S, Air Force (UDFA prospect) Eyabi Okie-Anoma, EDGE, Charlotte Qwan'tez Stiggers, CB, Toronto  Sundiata Anderson, EDGE, Grambling State  Daequan Hardy, CB, Penn State (Special Teams, Returner)  Emani Bailey, RB, TCU   As for Vikings, I don't wanna rush to draft QB if the team isn't confident in the guys they could move up in draft range, and I'd like to just draft impact players that build the roster at this point.   Build the team, draft a franchise QB at right time, don't rush and ruin years trying to make someone work out in the NFL. 
    • If you are relying upon history, does accuracy matter?  I think the reason Smith ended up at RT is because the coaches tried him there out of necessity and he played well, and stayed there due to the coaches wishes.  I don't think that FO guys had much to say about it, because Smith was in fact drafted to be a G, not the RT.  Ballard's own words after day 2 of that draft was that they drafted Smith a bit higher than they had him ranked, because he was the "last remaining starting caliber G on the board".   So it does fit that Smith was not drafted by Ballard or the FO to be a RT...in part because of the measurables and arm length.   Also directing this response to @Matthew Gilbert
    • Same. And that's because over time that level of depth eventually decays. 
    • I don't think players like Davis (and especially Bryan, who I don't think will make the final 53) should impact our draft strategy at all. Not even a little bit. If we like Byron Murphy, figure out what to do with those other guys later. The other versatile guys you mention don't scratch the itch the way Murphy would be expected to -- he should be looked at as a disruptive 3T who plays there every down, not a matchup guy or passing downs guy.    If anything, maybe it's the other way around. The Colts already had a feel for the DTs in draft class and knew they wouldn't get what they want in the draft, so they addressed the position in free agency. And after this weekend, that might help people better understand the strategy at DB and WR...    The bolded really gets at the heart of it. I like Murphy, but I'm not offering him as a great player that you just have to take a chance on. But when it comes to draft strategy, I think taking the best players is the way to go. I'm directly opposed to needs-based drafting, and to passing on a really good prospect because you have backup level veterans already on the roster. 
    • I suppose Murphy being the next Donald is possible, but I wouldn’t think it’s likely.     As for Smith playing right tackle, I believe I was simply echoing Ballard’s initial viewpoint.  That Smith’s short arms made him an unlikely RT.  And that he had to be talked into it by Morocco Brown and Ed Dodds.   I don’t think I was stating MY personal view.    As for skillset vs measurements.  I think it’s been an issue for all of us because Ballard has such specific requirements for each position.  So we factor that into our judgements. 
  • Members

    • ChuggaBeer

      ChuggaBeer 1,756

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • DynaMike

      DynaMike 153

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • boo2202

      boo2202 672

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • VikingsFanInChennai

      VikingsFanInChennai 2,990

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Hark

      Hark 978

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • John Hammonds

      John Hammonds 4,928

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ShuteAt168

      ShuteAt168 961

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • B~Town

      B~Town 311

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • stitches

      stitches 19,313

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • C0LT5

      C0LT5 86

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...