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How optimistic are you about Grigson/Pagano going forward?


RockThatBlue

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full confidence in Pagano to do what needs to be done to correct the problems from a coaching stand point, but find it extremely difficult to even get optimistic about Grigson, he has to nail this draft to regain any of my respect

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I think Irsay did the right thing in just re-signing both guys.  I don't like Grigson and have had a lot of problems with really dumb moves by Pagano, (like, can we PLEASE get a REPLAY assistant with a friggin CLUE so we stop challenging obvious loser plays and wasting time outs while missing opportunities where we can win? I think we had some of the worst challenges last year I have ever seen a team make, but I digress...)

 

One reason I was for keeping both is the fact they went 5-2 with very little at QB and did not give up on the team, nor did the players stop playing hard no matter how dire things got.  Another reason I was for not getting rid of Pagano was I didn't see a single coaching hire where I felt "man, we really missed out on THAT guy!"  Unless you have a clear upgrade, keep what you have.  In Grigson's case, my biggest problem (beyond his picks and signings which have been brilliant and moronic both over the years) was his reported meddling into coaching areas.  I can only hope that will stop or at least be less obvious and intrusive.  (Like, can we please see the end of Harrison at Center etc.) If he sticks to normal GM functions, I think we have evidence we have an above average GM and an above average coach.  We had a lousy OC and hopefully Chud is an upgrade, he sure was tossed into the fire and helped us win some games we shouldn't have with the talent on the field. 

 

So now without all the pressure hanging over their heads and hopefully starting with a healthy team (i.e. Luck) they have come to some understandings.  If not, they have time to keep an eye out for a CLEAR upgrade at either position meanwhile things will be stable and for the most part, players are happy with Pagano which is no small thing.  They helped save his job and I think they're happy to have him back.  

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8 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I think Irsay did the right thing in just re-signing both guys.  I don't like Grigson and have had a lot of problems with really dumb moves by Pagano, (like, can we PLEASE get a REPLAY assistant with a friggin CLUE so we stop challenging obvious loser plays and wasting time outs while missing opportunities where we can win? I think we had some of the worst challenges last year I have ever seen a team make, but I digress...)

 

One reason I was for keeping both is the fact they went 5-2 with very little at QB and did not give up on the team, nor did the players stop playing hard no matter how dire things got.  Another reason I was for not getting rid of Pagano was I didn't see a single coaching hire where I felt "man, we really missed out on THAT guy!"  Unless you have a clear upgrade, keep what you have.  In Grigson's case, my biggest problem (beyond his picks and signings which have been brilliant and moronic both over the years) was his reported meddling into coaching areas.  I can only hope that will stop or at least be less obvious and intrusive.  (Like, can we please see the end of Harrison at Center etc.) If he sticks to normal GM functions, I think we have evidence we have an above average GM and an above average coach.  We had a lousy OC and hopefully Chud is an upgrade, he sure was tossed into the fire and helped us win some games we shouldn't have with the talent on the field. 

 

So now without all the pressure hanging over their heads and hopefully starting with a healthy team (i.e. Luck) they have come to some understandings.  If not, they have time to keep an eye out for a CLEAR upgrade at either position meanwhile things will be stable and for the most part, players are happy with Pagano which is no small thing.  They helped save his job and I think they're happy to have him back.  

well put

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I'm confident in Pagano but maybe Grigson is learning.  I'm not sure.    I would have like to have seen at least a FA signing or two in an area of immediate need (OL, LB, or CB) but time will tell.

 

I just hope that he is smart in the draft and drafts BPA in area of need and not BPA in general.  

 

I feel like when we win, we are having to win from behind in a lot of games, as if mediocrity in personnel is just fine....just have 'em play harder.  Not really the way to go in my opinion. 

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My confidence level in both took a hit this year.     Grigson more than Pagano.

 

Going forward,  I give them a year at a time.      With the way the Colts have been taking a very low profile approach to free agency,   that tells me that barring a terrible season,  Irsay is going to give them two years to get things right.     But a really bad season and he could cut ties even though both are operating on concurrent 4-year contracts.

 

But as a fan,  one year at a time.     And I'll reevaluate next January......

 

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Everybody on here knows that I don't hold Grigson in high regard. Why Jimmy retained Ryan, I'll never know. 

 

I just figured that since Pagano was in the last year of his 1st contract, he'd be the inevitable scapegoat. 

 

Chuck will get better, but Jack Ryan...Sorry, Grigs...I have my reservations...Our future under this regime will be interesting since our division foes are closing the competition gap. 

 

Irsay obviously  thought that continuity was a good idea. Time will tell I guess...

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2 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

Hard to evaluate without full disclosure of how authority and responsibility was devided in the first four seasons...

Heres to hoping that more clearly defined roles will result in better results all around...

 

Most level headed response on this page. As much as Grigson frustrates me at times, Buck may be onto to something here. Sometimes, a good heart to heart, cuss out session between the HC, GM, & owner helps to re-classify roles & alter responsibilities for the better. Arguments channeled in the right way, clear the air & moves the team forward. 

 

I know from experience that once pent up frustrations are laid out on the table & everybody says their peace real growth can begin because there's nothing else to say anymore. Let the smoke clear & just go to work. 

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Personally,  I think we've already reached the ceiling with Grigson. 11-5 range, I'm guessing, with a play-off win(or two, if things fall just right) is about the best we'll get out of a Grigson managed team. For most GMs that will get the job done. But, we have #12 under center and that shouldn't be good enough. 

The future of any team depends on the draft and deft FA moves and I see Grigson as just a middle-of-the-pack talent evaluator. 

As far as Pagano, I think he can win with better personnel moves and less meddling.  I don't subscribe to the belief that he's the problem.  I think he's good enough to get the job done. 

I hope the additions on the coaching staff help stir the ship in the right direction

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I look at it this way. 15 years ago when I started my profession I knew nothing. To this day, 15 years later, I am still learning. I think you learn from your mistakes and get better. That's part of it. 

 

but my glass is usually half-full 

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9 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Do you think they'll fix their mistakes, and take the colts into the right direction?

NO. In the absence of FA signings that are needed to address the needs of the OL & DL, Grigson is all but admitting he is clueless or just gun shy after the past two years of horrendous wastes of cap money on re-treads.

So we have to hope we can make some smart draft decisions.  Is anyone confident Grigson can suddenly see the light?  Color me NO.

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I am very optimistic going forward.  They have no choice but to work together.  Like I have said before Grigson owes his new contract to Chuck.  Chuck wanted him back.  Chuck already has put his stamp on the coaching staff and I believe he will have the biggest input on this draft .  I believe if there is a difference of opinion on who to pick, Ryan will yield to Chuck, he owes him.  Chuck will be given a chance to pick the players he wants and who to play going forward. That's the way it should be.  I am very excited about the upcoming year and the return of a healthy Luck.

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14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If you are a colts fan,   why would you not be optimistic about the team moving forward?     

Were you optimistic this time last year when we signed a bunch of over-the-hill  re-treads instead of filling the gaping holes on the OL that led to Luck's season ending injury?  Well at this point all you have to be optimistic about is that Luck is hopefully healthy, because except for a part time Gore all those re-treads are either gone or on the bench.  I'm a fan from 1958 who is a realist.

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As of right now, I don't think either one of them is anything more than average at their job. I'm a bit less optimistic about Grigson than Pagano, especially after doing nothing to address any of our needs in FA, despite having the cap space to do so.

 

With those two at the helm, and how much the rest of our division has improved so far, I think a wild card spot is our ceiling unless we absolutely kill it this draft. We need immediate starters at RG, C, and CB2, and we desperately need an impact pass rusher. If we can get all of that from this draft, then I think we can win the AFCS again, but that kind of draft is really unlikely.

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It's a make or break season for me on these guys, more so with Grigson. With the coaching staff changes, I'm really hoping to see Pagano come into his own and get the team back on track. Grigson, well... I'll let you know by January of how I really feel...

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50 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If you are a colts fan,   why would you not be optimistic about the team moving forward?     

The vocal bemoaner and curmudgeon is at a distinct advantage, since sports in general sets the enthusiast & fan up for disappointment more often than not. So in loss the malcontent are able to further justify their stance "Look at me I told you the coach stinks" "I told you so". etc...

In victory, well that same grouch is able to suspend the disbelief and revel in the victory...

 

So win, lose, or tie the constant complainer apeases their own ego...

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I'm much more optimistic about Pagano than Grigson.

 

I think with the right pieces, Pagano would be a good coach.  Grigson just seems like pretty much a disaster as a GM and I really wish Irsay had let him go.

 

His FA's have mostly tanked....and using a 1st round pick on a WR last year was just dumb, given all the other things that could have helped them with that pick.

 

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I think this will be a down year, a "rebuild" year if you will. The team didnt want any part of the FA and will try to focus entirely on draft (which i agree on) but 1 draft wont solve all our personnell needs. And im fine with it.

 

I have more confidence on Grigson than on Pagano, people wanna say whatever about Grigson but his drafts excepp that awfull Thorton/Holmes have all been ok. I mean 2-3 starters per draft is fine.

 

 

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13 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'm have almost no confidence in Grigson, but I think Pagano will rebound from last year's poor performance.

Why, i mean i get we kinda dislike the guy and doesnt have the public perception of pagano bu this drafts have been ok...thats all you can ask for.

 

I mean look at the seahawks, stellear 12 draft and the rest has been meh. no 1st rounder in the last 2 years and quite honestly i like our picks better

 

Hell compare to Broncos since 12

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2 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

The vocal bemoaner and curmudgeon is at a distinct advantage, since sports in general sets the enthusiast & fan up for disappointment more often than not. So in loss the malcontent are able to further justify their stance "Look at me I told you the coach stinks" "I told you so". etc...

In victory, well that same grouch is able to suspend the disbelief and revel in the victory...

 

So win, lose, or tie the constant complainer apeases their own ego...

 

Your last sentence is probably the best definition I've ever heard concerning that type of NFL fan.

 

Well said.

 

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I think things can work out.  A full season with a healthy Luck and more wins would help but I am very nervous.  They've done nothing in free agency to upgrade for next year.  There still is the draft but there are an awful lot of holes to be filled.  I guess we'll see what happens!  Luck can take us a long way but he can't do it on his own.

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12 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

At least ONE of them will be fired following this season.

With the division getting stronger and Pagano's great coaching decision's and monster D:lol: where in for a great season. Grigson will problem draft a punter in the 1st round 

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1 hour ago, Mameluc said:

Why, i mean i get we kinda dislike the guy and doesnt have the public perception of pagano bu this drafts have been ok...thats all you can ask for.

 

I mean look at the seahawks, stellear 12 draft and the rest has been meh. no 1st rounder in the last 2 years and quite honestly i like our picks better

 

Hell compare to Broncos since 12

Sure, but what about the impact of the free agents those teams have signed, and the trades they made?  Seattle traded for Marshawn Lynch.  We traded for someone we thought was going to be the next Marshawn Lynch and ended up being a waste of a roster spot.  The Broncos signed free agents like DeMarcus Ware and Emmanuel Sanders.  We signed free agents like Trent Cole and Andre Johnson.  Don't get me wrong, I think Grigson has made a handful of good moves, but his overall body of work isn't that great, in my opinion.

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4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If you are a colts fan,   why would you not be optimistic about the team moving forward?     

 

Exactly. Agreed 100%. Everyone knows where I stand. I'm about as optimistic as it gets toward most things. Some say I'm too naive. Maybe. At least I go to sleep at night with a notion, no matter how bad things get, there's a focal point of light on the other side of the fence. An aspect which has been with me since I was 20. 

 

Anyway, about the Colts. Fanatic is described in many ways. I've always sided on the good things the team has done in the past & present. That leaves the future. So why would I differ? The best thing this franchise has done since last season was to hire a new blooded position coaching staff across the board, and keep Chuck Pagano in the wake of it. Chuck knows these guys. Knows their backgrounds & capabilities. 

 

To me, this franchise has chosen a path of absolute cohesion on every level. I think Irsay has made that clear enough. So yes, I'm very optimistic about our future. Whether that's drafts and/or free agents plus all other variables that go into the mix.

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1 hour ago, ColtRider said:

 

Your last sentence is probably the best definition I've ever heard concerning that type of NFL fan.

 

Well said.

 

Thanks.

While its easy to understand the frustration that fans feel with the obvious miscues and questionable moves, the negative energy is just that...negative...

It doesn't solve anything going forward, all it does is appease the one complaining.

Grigson is the GM for the foreseeable future and Pagano is the coach going forward.

On the positive side, there is also no reason to believe that like anyone, that the duos job performance can't improve with tweaks to the overall approach, time in the drivers seat, and overall experience...

Grigsons 2015 draft looks as good overall as any of his drafts, and from reports that I've heard from, his demeanor is much more jovial (possibly even more humble/modest than previously) so one could argue that the arrow is pointing up...

 

Or not, and we can all complain to make ourselves feel better...

Who knows...

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