biggest need, O-line or defense

[jim scheurich]

I'm just an average colts fan, I don't analyze everything. To me, the biggest problem with the colts right now is the o-line.(I understand there is room for improvement almost everywhere). No line, no run. No line no pass. Look at Brady this year, try quick plays and was still hit (a lot).Defense is a little more versatile. 

[BProland85]

Defense. That's what gets you titles as we all know. As long as Luck gets back to getting rid of the ball quickly, and the coaching staff keeps a somewhat continuous OL minus some obvious injuries that will happen, they can survive there. 

 

But really they should do their best to solve both. 

[Flash]

A solid O-line would complete the offense.

 

We appear to have talent at the skill positions, but they cannot reach their full potential without a solid O-line. Also, a good offense will help the defense and put them in better situations. We saw the opposite of that this season and it should be fresh in our memories how badly the offense affected our defense.

[jim scheurich]

3 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Defense. That's what gets you titles as we all know. As long as Luck gets back to getting rid of the ball quickly, and the coaching staff keeps a somewhat continuous OL minus some obvious injuries that will happen, they can survive there. 

 

But really they should do their best to solve both. 

I had to fix your like #

[Nesjan3]

Im torn we need to solidify the oline to protect lucks health, but defense wins championships and ours is not that good

[Carlos Danger]

Probably defense, but there is no excuse to leave the o-line as is.

 

We have some big holes to fill

[COLTS449]

Both. I think we should fix the OL and grab a corner in Free Agency, then use our first 3-4 picks on D. We have enough money to sign Alex Mack, Jeff Allen, and Trumaine Johnson in free agency. Allen wont get hardly as much as Osemele. He'll probably get something like 4/28, and Johnson wont get as much as Smith, but Johnson will still get paid. Probably 4/28 would get him signed as well. Then our offensive line is finally fixed, and we can focus on D in the draft. If we can come out of the draft with Noah Spence, Karl Joseph, and Vernon Butler that's 3 guys who, IMO will all be impact players. Spence and Joseph would most likely start week 1, while Butler would be a rotational D-Lineman, unless he beats Langford out. So my point is we have to address both. We can fix every major hole this offseason. Center, Guard, Corner, and a dominant Pass rusher. Those are the 4 major needs. If we could get a safety like Joseph, and a DT like Butler that would just be icing on the cake.

[jim scheurich]

7 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Im torn we need to solidify the oline to protect lucks health, but defense wins championships and ours is not that good

Nobodys  defense is that good if their on the field all the time.

[Nesjan3]

true but i feel like even when Luck is sustaining drives and scoring points there still middle of the pack defense

[iLoveMyBoys]

The franchise has to be protected at all times 1st and foremost which would have helped the defense if they weren't on the field so much but the pass rush was so terrible its right up there with the O-line there like A1 to A2

[Superman]

Defense. The offensive line isn't as bad as it's made out to be. 

[James]

If Denver's o-line can protect Peyton Manning, then our o-line should be able to protect the more mobile Andrew Luck. 

 

Defense all the way. That's what wins games when it counts.

[Yinkgo]

The #1 defense in the NFL just dominated the #1 offense in the Super Bowl.  I vote draft Defense in Rounds 1-2-3.

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, jim scheurich said:

I had to fix your like #

 

Appreciate that lol

[twfish]

Our o-line definitely isn't as bad as people say it is. However people also forget that nearly every single injury to our QB'S where when they rushed outside of the pocket. With us switching from man to zone blocking our line will look much better with giving Holmes and Thornton a chance to play the way they where really good at in college and the only pick on o-line I'd really want would be a tackle.

So give me an edge rusher lb corner rb tackle in no particular order

[No 1 Manning Fan]

Defense first. your offense has more freedom when you have a great D. You can open it up and take risks like steelers do from time to time, or play it conservatively like the Broncos did all post season.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, James said:

If Denver's o-line can protect Peyton Manning, then our o-line should be able to protect the more mobile Andrew Luck. 

 

The Broncos sacked Cam six times. They only sacked Luck once (hit him plenty, but several of those hits were on scrambles, including the one where he was hurt). 

 

Now Carolina has a troublesome offensive line, too. Not saying that they prove that you don't need a good OL to make it to the SB. Just saying, the Colts line was better.

 

The Colts definitely need to improve the OL, though, and not just the protection. It's critical that they develop a run game as well. 

[The Peytonator]

Anyone else think Denzelle Good would make for a better guard than he does tackle? He was a pretty strong run blocker, but his feet weren't quick enough to be much of a pass protector. I feel like he could be a mauler of a guard and maybe in the future he could kick out to tackle. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

I'll go with both.....

 

The offensive line is simply atrocious.     It's not acceptable for a team that wants to make deep runs in the playoffs.     We went another entire season without a single 100 yard game by a running back.     We couldn't protect Luck or Hasselbeck or Whitehorse, or the other two guys we brought in.      The line is among the worst I've seen in following football for more than 45 years.

 

But the defense has very few playmakers.     One,  Vonte Davis.      We lack a pass rush,  and we can't stop the running game.      Other than that,  the defense is great.

 

Having Luck masks a lot of flaws and too many of those flaws were exposed this past season.

 

I think those who think this line is "not really that bad" are in deep, deep denial.     Seriously.

 

We have a lot of work to do.      I expect to be back in the playoffs again.....    but making a deep run is another story.....     This team has a lot of needs.....     most on defense,  but a few more OL would help greatly.

 

 

[a06cc]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Our o-line definitely isn't as bad as people say it is. However people also forget that nearly every single injury to our QB'S where when they rushed outside of the pocket. With us switching from man to zone blocking our line will look much better with giving Holmes and Thornton a chance to play the way they where really good at in college and the only pick on o-line I'd really want would be a tackle.

So give me an edge rusher lb corner rb tackle in no particular order

Not only did I have to like your post I'm quoting it. Most of our personnel is made for a zone blocking scheme. We could go either way. Our O-line isn't that bad when running the correct scheme. We do need a pass rusher and oline help. Either way we go I'll be happy. One will help the other.

[camcolts2621]

I feel like our defense is just okay... We have a lot of decent players but we don't have a player who is that one play maker that we really need. Robert Mathis was that player, but obviously he's getting up there in age. Along the Defensive Line I feel like Anderson and Parry will be really good starters. Kendall Langford was actually a big surprise for me, I didn't think he would produce as much as he did... and whoa boy T.Y McGill he looked like a one man wrecking crew when he was in. 

Along the Linebackers, Freeman is pretty good, Jackson I feel is an awesome old school linebacker but again another aging player. Hopefully Mathis can produce like he did a few years ago, get rid of Cole & Werner altogether, Newsome should come back stronger

Secondary, Davis would look elite again if he stays healthy and if we get a solid #2, cut Toler. Mike Adams is a great leader but another old guy, Lowery is a breath of fresh air compared to Landry. 

All in all, get rid of Cole, Werner, Toler.... I feel like Jackson and Adams will be a key part to some Superbowl runs and the end of their careers. 

[camcolts2621]

So i'd improve the defense first IMO

[theanarchist]

11 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Defense. That's what gets you titles as we all know. As long as Luck gets back to getting rid of the ball quickly, and the coaching staff keeps a somewhat continuous OL minus some obvious injuries that will happen, they can survive there. 

 

But really they should do their best to solve both. 

Agree. I think with having the #18 pick they have a chance to get one of the top pass rushers. I think Pass rushers make a bigger impact but it should all depend on who is sitting there at 18 when we pick. Getting the #1 G or #2 tackle would be nice also. But, I think the chances of getting a good G are better than getting an impact pass rusher in round 2.

 

Honestly I think we need to address one of these needs in FA. I think Trent Cole should be cut. That saves a few million on the cap and we could use that $ to sign a solid G. There will be a few good ones on the market I think. I also think that besides Cole, there should be a couple of other FA's that should be let go and we should be able to make some significant savings on the cap.

 

This is definitely a critical draft. More than any other except maybe his first draft.

[ProblChld32]

12 hours ago, jim scheurich said:

I'm just an average colts fan, I don't analyze everything. To me, the biggest problem with the colts right now is the o-line.(I understand there is room for improvement almost everywhere). No line, no run. No line no pass. Look at Brady this year, try quick plays and was still hit (a lot).Defense is a little more versatile. 

 

IMO i gotta say O-Line we JUST seen what a crappy OLINE does to your franchise QB, we need to be able to keep him upright if we want a chance to win big.

 

Defense helps win Championships but i feel like we can absolutely get by with an OK defense 

[Jason_]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

Defense. The offensive line isn't as bad as it's made out to be. 

 

Personally I don't think the defense is nearly as bad as it's made out to be either.  Definitely need some more young playmakers, but even with what we had last year I thought they played better than most would admit.

[SteelDragon]

I would protect #12 at all costs.  Whether the offensive line needs just a little tweaking or rebuilt, get it done first and foremost

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

13 hours ago, jim scheurich said:

I'm just an average colts fan, I don't analyze everything. To me, the biggest problem with the colts right now is the o-line.(I understand there is room for improvement almost everywhere). No line, no run. No line no pass. Look at Brady this year, try quick plays and was still hit (a lot).Defense is a little more versatile. 

 I agree  

You protect the franchise QB first then this Colts team will have the chance to be as good if not better than a Peyton Manning led Colts team .

 

But that only makes us as good as the past Colts teams . 

 

We must find a comfortable middle ground The Manning era is known for awesome offense & weak run stopping defense . 

 

So far 12 has out performed 18's early years & is very capable IMO our COLTS in 2016 will get on track & the excitement will build to a fever pitch just like with 18 provided you fix his O-line that is where you have to start .

 

Realizing we probably won't win another SB with the leagues worst reg season defense we need to get into the top 10 - 15 to go all the way .

[Bluefire4]

15 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Both. I think we should fix the OL and grab a corner in Free Agency, then use our first 3-4 picks on D. We have enough money to sign Alex Mack, Jeff Allen, and Trumaine Johnson in free agency. Allen wont get hardly as much as Osemele. He'll probably get something like 4/28, and Johnson wont get as much as Smith, but Johnson will still get paid. Probably 4/28 would get him signed as well. Then our offensive line is finally fixed, and we can focus on D in the draft. If we can come out of the draft with Noah Spence, Karl Joseph, and Vernon Butler that's 3 guys who, IMO will all be impact players. Spence and Joseph would most likely start week 1, while Butler would be a rotational D-Lineman, unless he beats Langford out. So my point is we have to address both. We can fix every major hole this offseason. Center, Guard, Corner, and a dominant Pass rusher. Those are the 4 major needs. If we could get a safety like Joseph, and a DT like Butler that would just be icing on the cake.

I hear you and i know you're right but free agency and the draft never seem to work out that perfectly. There will always be another team willing to offer more money in a better location that will take some of our best options.

[bababooey]

Why not both?

 

[Jdubu]

My two cents on this is the team has that one franchise QB at the helm, and he is going to paid at the top of that chain of QB's. The team just gave a wr a hefty contract to their wr in Hilton. They paid the LT high salary money in Costanza so in my opinion, this team has to decide, and I believe they have, choose to go all out on one side of the ball and build around it and make the other 2 sides good enough to do the job but not #1 or even too #10. If you want a top 5 offense with a top 5 defense in this era, it's really tough to do. If the team wanted to have that top 1 defense, they would have to decide do they really want to pay a QB top 3 money to be a game manager so the defense can close games out. My feeling is they want to score 30+ and just allow a defense to hold on enough. If we didn't already have Luck, it would absolutely make sense to go all out on defense but we have those main pieces already on offense. 

 

I Would not be shocked to see a free agent big splash on the oline and the draft to go almost predominantly defense, especially the first 2-3 rounds. 

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Personally I don't think the defense is nearly as bad as it's made out to be either.  Definitely need some more young playmakers, but even with what we had last year I thought they played better than most would admit.

I agree and to add to your comment. We get a new defensive coach and philosophy which could go either way, I'm hoping its positive. We get Henry Anderson back who looked to be a stud in the making. We get Art Jones back and although we don't know what he will bring now, he was once thought of as a top pick up. I'm just not at all worried about the dline but I am worried about the LB'ers group as a whole. I'm more hopeful that a new scheme can fix some of those gaps that have been in our lb'er group. That group didn't cover well nor did they get after the QB well either. We need more pressure and intimidation from that group. Add 1 competent CB with Davis and I'm fine with the secondary for this season. We all know if the QB has to move around or throw it quicker, backfields look way better than they actually are. 

[Jason_]

12 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I agree and to add to your comment. We get a new defensive coach and philosophy which could go either way, I'm hoping its positive. We get Henry Anderson back who looked to be a stud in the making. We get Art Jones back and although we don't know what he will bring now, he was once thought of as a top pick up. I'm just not at all worried about the dline but I am worried about the LB'ers group as a whole. I'm more hopeful that a new scheme can fix some of those gaps that have been in our lb'er group. That group didn't cover well nor did they get after the QB well either. We need more pressure and intimidation from that group. Add 1 competent CB with Davis and I'm fine with the secondary for this season. We all know if the QB has to move around or throw it quicker, backfields look way better than they actually are. 

 

I agree...one thing we really need is an athletic playmaker at MLB to be the leader of the defense.  Unfortunately, that type of player is typically only found in the first round of drafts.  Having said that, if there is a top-rated playmaker available at #18 in the coming draft, I would love to see the colts take him.  Yeah we need help on the OL and with pass rushers as well, but imo we have a better chance of finding those guys in rounds 2-4 than we do a true top flight MLB.

[Flash]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

Defense. The offensive line isn't as bad as it's made out to be. 

I think that the O-line came along by the end of the year, and that's the impression that we are left with. However, I have gone back and watched the first half of the season and the O-line was beyond bad. If they weren't outright getting beaten by their man, they were killing drives with holding penalties, and hands to the face, etc. Even at the end of the year, we saw Hasselback get beaten to a pulp, and his back up as well. Further, at no time was the running game a true threat. The O-line, and lack of QB play severely handicapped the entire team.

 

I hope Grigson doesn't fall into the trap of thinking that the O-line isn't that bad, again. It really is a big issue. After the O-line, I think defense should be the main concern. Once the O-line is set, the offense will be complete. Without it, we will have offensive issues and the remaining defensive issues. Let's at least address one side of the ball completely -- finish it off. But that's just my .02.

 

 

[Jdubu]

18 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I agree...one thing we really need is an athletic playmaker at MLB to be the leader of the defense.  Unfortunately, that type of player is typically only found in the first round of drafts.  Having said that, if there is a top-rated playmaker available at #18 in the coming draft, I would love to see the colts take him.  Yeah we need help on the OL and with pass rushers as well, but imo we have a better chance of finding those guys in rounds 2-4 than we do a true top flight MLB.

Agreed and the fact that we are switching seemingly to a zbs on the online, that helps cover for talent iirc. Those Denver years when they won the super bowls and had TD winning the rushing title and tearing up the league, those were zbs guys I believe. 

[throwing BBZ]

The O-Line needs to be a Good one. And it needs experience together.

We will Never have a versatile line with our tall stiffs on the left side.
 They are a D-coordinators dream. So a Big Fix is needed at the other 3 spots.

  Scheme could help for sure. And Thornton and Good have VG potential.

  Our depth needs improved that is a fact.

 

[Superman]

58 minutes ago, Flash said:

I think that the O-line came along by the end of the year, and that's the impression that we are left with. However, I have gone back and watched the first half of the season and the O-line was beyond bad. If they weren't outright getting beaten by their man, they were killing drives with holding penalties, and hands to the face, etc. Even at the end of the year, we saw Hasselback get beaten to a pulp, and his back up as well. Further, at no time was the running game a true threat. The O-line, and lack of QB play severely handicapped the entire team.

 

I hope Grigson doesn't fall into the trap of thinking that the O-line isn't that bad, again. It really is a big issue. After the O-line, I think defense should be the main concern. Once the O-line is set, the offense will be complete. Without it, we will have offensive issues and the remaining defensive issues. Let's at least address one side of the ball completely -- finish it off. But that's just my .02.

 

 

 

Once they got Louis and Herremans off the field, the line was better. Even in the first two games, poor play calling and underwhelming QBing was partly to blame for trouble up front. The OL took a lot of blame, but that wasn't totally fair.

 

It actually started to regress toward the end of the season, but bad QB play was a factor there. 

 

Again, it needs work for sure. But I think the issues with the OL are significantly overblown. And perhaps more importantly, I think good teams with good coaching make common sense adjustments to offset poor line play, and the Colts did not do that.

[Valpo2004]

Defense wins championships, that's showed very clearly for the last 3 SB's now.  

[Coltfreak]

Draft a center in the second and the line will look a lot better.  2 very good options should be available for us there.  

 

Incognito would be a nice addition but now now with Phillbin here doubt that could happen

 

1st pick has to be defense and it needs to be an impact player.    If Jaylon Smith falls that far ....what a difference he would make 

 

there re are other potential playmakers at the spot but Grigs needs to make this the best pick since he got credited for the no brainer Luck pick. 

[Flash]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Once they got Louis and Herremans off the field, the line was better. Even in the first two games, poor play calling and underwhelming QBing was partly to blame for trouble up front. The OL took a lot of blame, but that wasn't totally fair.

 

It actually started to regress toward the end of the season, but bad QB play was a factor there. 

 

Again, it needs work for sure. But I think the issues with the OL are significantly overblown. And perhaps more importantly, I think good teams with good coaching make common sense adjustments to offset poor line play, and the Colts did not do that.

To continue this discussion, I don't think you and I differ too much in how we see the O-line. I think we both can acknowledge that it needs work. The difference may be that you are willing to offset poor line play with coaching and place priority for fixing the defense first, while I would rather have better talent up front to go along with the better coaching, at the expense of addressing defense first. (I hope I am not putting words into your mouth -- not my intent).

[ClaytonColt]

The obvious answer is both but that wasn't the question. 

 

If it's a choice between the two then it's obviously defense. We lack true difference makers on that side of the ball, especially when you're talking about rushing the passer.

 

We need depth on the offensive line but we can hopefully plug the gaps without it being true top end talent. Just effective middle, of the road, options who are consistent would do for me.