Was that Broncos D one of the best defenses of all time?

[buffalo34]

They more or less won games for that team this year. Do you think they stack up with the 85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the Steel Curtain of the 70s, and so on? My god, they were just insane this season.

[ColtsRule815]

I think that they could definitely be in the same conversation as the '85 Bears at least.  It remains to be seen if they can achieve the same level of dominance as the Steel Curtain from the '70s.

[Nesjan3]

as good or better than the 00 Ravens and 02 Bucs IMO, not quite as good as the 85 Bears, and lets face it, there may not ever be a defense as dominant for such a long period of time as the Steelers of the 70s, but avg under 200 passing yards against per game in a pass happy era with all the rules protecting these freak athlete receivers is pretty darn good , one could argue....and that pass rush lol watching Brady and Cam get tossed around like ragdolls was just great 

[Ryan Pelley]

They definitely deserve to be in the same conversation as those other defenses at this point. It's just a matter of how people will look back at them in the next 5 or 10 or 20 years.

 

They were dominant throughout the season. They have all of the statistics and rankings on their side, plus the defensive TDs that won them games at the end of several regular season games.

 

And what they did to arguably the two best offenses in the league in the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl was just incredible. 11 sacks, 6 takeaways and 1 TD in those two games. Just wow.

[MPStack]

I still think the 85 Bears are without a doubt the greatest defensive unit that ever played. They dominated and intimidated opposing offenses that season. I think they were the first ever to elect to kickoff after winning the coin toss. That`s confidence. The way the shut down E. Dickerson in the playoffs was sick. Dude had like 19 yds from scrimmage. 

[shakedownstreet]

with modern rules favoring offense, you just don't see true shutdown defenses anymore... until now

[Blue Horseshoe]

Defense wins championships and it always has.

[King Colt]

"One of the best" yes but don't lose sight of the fact Carolina played poorly yesterday.  Add to Denver's D two critical fumbles, dropped passes, 12 penalties, a silly kick return coverage that allowed the longest return in Super Bowl history, third down conversions that never materialized, dropped potential interceptions, missed FG and lousy blocking. Trent Dilford said the Panthers threw up on themselves. Newton's reaction to his fumble just standing their letting someone else go after it told a story as well. Granted Denver put it to New England  also but to me the Baltimore and Chicago defenses were the best I ever saw. Everyone has an opinion when it comes to the best of anything. All credit to Wade Philips.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I would rank them on the same level as the 2000 Ravens and slightly behind the 85 Bears. 

[No 1 Manning Fan]

18 minutes ago, King Colt said:

"One of the best" yes but don't lose sight of the fact Carolina played poorly yesterday.  Add to Denver's D two critical fumbles, dropped passes, 12 penalties, a silly kick return coverage that allowed the longest return in Super Bowl history, third down conversions that never materialized, dropped potential interceptions, missed FG and lousy blocking. Trent Dilford said the Panthers threw up on themselves. Newton's reaction to his fumble just standing their letting someone else go after it told a story as well. Granted Denver put it to New England  also but to me the Baltimore and Chicago defenses were the best I ever saw. Everyone has an opinion when it comes to the best of anything. All credit to Wade Philips.

And doesn't a lot of the credit for those miscues go to the dominant defense that Denver displayed last night? Not all of course. Every team has a few miscues of their own. I've yet to see a flawless performance from any team, ever. However, the vast majority of those mistakes were caused either directly from the Denver D, or indirectly by the pressure of the moment because the Denver D was so dominant. 

[Hoosiernsavga]

As much as most of us love Manning it was the worst I have seen a QB play and still win a super bowl. Danvers defense was lights out! Definitely a top 5 of all time. 

[HarryTheCat]

With all due respect to the '85 Bears, The Steel Curtain, the '00 Ravens and others, I've never seen a defense play like the Broncos played last night, where every man on that field seemed to be operating at full throttle and 110% effort on every play, right down to the end of the game.  There was no "let up" in them at all. Cam and the Panthers had no answer for the intensity that the Broncos' D threw at them. That defense was pure Kryptonite, and Cam went from "Superman" to Super Dud right before our eyes. 

[RockThatBlue]

Absolutely. The amazing thing is they are that good in an era where the rules help offenses. That makes it more impressive. Their pass is unbelievable.

[Moose Of Woe]

God tier: 2000 Ravens. They gave up like 3 points a game.

 

Ridiculous tier in no particular order:

2004 Patriots

'85 Bears

Steel Curtain (All of those years)

2015 Broncos

2013 Seahawks

2002 Bucs

^I'd say all of those were close enough to be a tie. The 2000 Ravens still stand out to me as unquestionably the flat out best.

 

The 2003 Pats were crazy good too, but not like 2004.

 

 

 

[jet1968]

They were without a doubt the best this year. Best ever, I think is pushing it.

[21isSuperman]

Let's see how they stack up statistically.

 

1986 Chicago Bears (statistically better than the '85 team in some aspects): gave up 187 points, 4130 yards, 47 takeaways, 62 sacks in 16 games

1976 Steelers: 138 points, 3323 yards, 46 takeaways, 41 sacks in 14 games

2000 Ravens: 165 points, 3967 yards, 49 takeaways, 35 sacks in 16 games

2002 Buccaneers: 196 points, 4044 yards, 38 takeaways, 43 sacks in 16 games

2013 Seahawks: 231 points, 4378 yards, 39 takeaways, 44 sacks in 16 games

2015 Broncos: 296 points, 4530 yards, 27 takeaways, 52 sacks in 16 games

 

Taking per game averages gives us:

1986 Bears: 11.69 ppg, 258.1 ypg, 2.94 takeaways/game, 3.88 sacks/game

1976 Steelers: 9.86 ppg, 255.6 ypg, 3.29 takeaways/game, 2.93 sacks/game

2000 Ravens: 10.3 ppg, 247.9 ypg, 3.06 takeaways/game, 2.19 sacks/game

2002 Bucs: 12.25 ppg, 252.8 ypg, 2.38 takeaways/game, 2.69 sacks/game

2013 Seahawks: 14.44 ppg, 273.6 ypg, 2.44 takeaways/game, 2.75 sacks/game

2015 Broncos: 18.50 ppg, 283.1 ppg, 1.69 takeaways/game, 3.25 sacks/game

 

Looking at those statistics, the Broncos defense is only all-time elite when it comes to pass rush.  When you look at points given up, yards given up, and takeaways, they rank last among the defense listed above.  That doesn't mean the defense isn't great, but I hesitate to call them an all-time great defense.

[Moose Of Woe]

27 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's see how they stack up statistically.

 

1986 Chicago Bears (statistically better than the '85 team in some aspects): gave up 187 points, 4130 yards, 47 takeaways, 62 sacks in 16 games

1976 Steelers: 138 points, 3323 yards, 46 takeaways, 41 sacks in 14 games

2000 Ravens: 165 points, 3967 yards, 49 takeaways, 35 sacks in 16 games

2002 Buccaneers: 196 points, 4044 yards, 38 takeaways, 43 sacks in 16 games

2013 Seahawks: 231 points, 4378 yards, 39 takeaways, 44 sacks in 16 games

2015 Broncos: 296 points, 4530 yards, 27 takeaways, 52 sacks in 16 games

 

Taking per game averages gives us:

1986 Bears: 11.69 ppg, 258.1 ypg, 2.94 takeaways/game, 3.88 sacks/game

1976 Steelers: 9.86 ppg, 255.6 ypg, 3.29 takeaways/game, 2.93 sacks/game

2000 Ravens: 10.3 ppg, 247.9 ypg, 3.06 takeaways/game, 2.19 sacks/game

2002 Bucs: 12.25 ppg, 252.8 ypg, 2.38 takeaways/game, 2.69 sacks/game

2013 Seahawks: 14.44 ppg, 273.6 ypg, 2.44 takeaways/game, 2.75 sacks/game

2015 Broncos: 18.50 ppg, 283.1 ppg, 1.69 takeaways/game, 3.25 sacks/game

 

Looking at those statistics, the Broncos defense is only all-time elite when it comes to pass rush.  When you look at points given up, yards given up, and takeaways, they rank last among the defense listed above.  That doesn't mean the defense isn't great, but I hesitate to call them an all-time great defense.

Something that gets lost in all that - most of those teams actually had an offense that wasn't completely terrible. Hell, some of those offenses were pretty damn good like the Steelers. The Bears had Walter Payton.

 

What makes BAL and DEN's defenses so impressive was that they were constantly on the field thanks to their inept offense. At least BAL could run the ball sometimes, but DEN was dreadful. I have never seen a team as allergic to FINISHING DRIVES as DEN.

 

DEN's MO all season was they'd run run run for 2 yards forward or backward 90% of the time and then finally break out a long run or two per game. That's it. In the passing game they'd get the occasional big play to enemy territory and then * the drive away. Even with special teams/the defense getting DEN great field position they usually squandered it.

 

Given the constant pressure put on DEN by their god awful offense, I'm inclined to put them pretty close to the 2000 Ravens.

 

[VDB]

30 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's see how they stack up statistically.

 

1986 Chicago Bears (statistically better than the '85 team in some aspects): gave up 187 points, 4130 yards, 47 takeaways, 62 sacks in 16 games

1976 Steelers: 138 points, 3323 yards, 46 takeaways, 41 sacks in 14 games

2000 Ravens: 165 points, 3967 yards, 49 takeaways, 35 sacks in 16 games

2002 Buccaneers: 196 points, 4044 yards, 38 takeaways, 43 sacks in 16 games

2013 Seahawks: 231 points, 4378 yards, 39 takeaways, 44 sacks in 16 games

2015 Broncos: 296 points, 4530 yards, 27 takeaways, 52 sacks in 16 games

 

Taking per game averages gives us:

1986 Bears: 11.69 ppg, 258.1 ypg, 2.94 takeaways/game, 3.88 sacks/game

1976 Steelers: 9.86 ppg, 255.6 ypg, 3.29 takeaways/game, 2.93 sacks/game

2000 Ravens: 10.3 ppg, 247.9 ypg, 3.06 takeaways/game, 2.19 sacks/game

2002 Bucs: 12.25 ppg, 252.8 ypg, 2.38 takeaways/game, 2.69 sacks/game

2013 Seahawks: 14.44 ppg, 273.6 ypg, 2.44 takeaways/game, 2.75 sacks/game

2015 Broncos: 18.50 ppg, 283.1 ppg, 1.69 takeaways/game, 3.25 sacks/game

 

Looking at those statistics, the Broncos defense is only all-time elite when it comes to pass rush.  When you look at points given up, yards given up, and takeaways, they rank last among the defense listed above.  That doesn't mean the defense isn't great, but I hesitate to call them an all-time great defense.

 

You have to take in consideration that the league favors the offense now days. Everything is offense. In a league that pushes for high offensive stats, the Broncos defense completely dominated this year. Id say its an all time great. 

[Corndog]

9 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

with modern rules favoring offense, you just don't see true shutdown defenses anymore... until now

Couldn't agree more and they just shut down two of the top offenses in the league.  The Seahawks have done it recently, but other than that the other teams(even the '02 Bucs and '00 Ravens) were in a different era of football that didn't have the rules that favor the offense.  

 

Also, has there even been a team to win the Superbowl with that bad of offensive production?  

[VDB]

6 minutes ago, Corndog said:

Couldn't agree more and they just shut down two of the top offenses in the league.  The Seahawks have done it recently, but other than that the other teams(even the '02 Bucs and '00 Ravens) were in a different era of football that didn't have the rules that favor the offense.  

 

Also, has there even been a team to win the Superbowl with that bad of offensive production?  

 

The Broncos had the lowest total yards for a Super Bowl winner. They were 40-something yards less than the 2000 Ravens

[GwinnettColt]

Frustrates me that Wade Phillips was available nd we didn't even consider him.  

[VDB]

9 minutes ago, GwinnettColt said:

Frustrates me that Wade Phillips was available nd we didn't even consider him.  

 

In all fairness, nobody except the Broncos considered him. 

[IinD]

I'd say no. People jump on a story real quick nowadays. They were very good, but they weren't an all time great. 

 

They lost to us and the Raiders and needed OT to beat the Browns. An all time great wouldn't have lost to us or the Raiders during the season.

 

Yes they had struggles on O, but they aren't an all time great. Very good D, but not all time category.

[Moose Of Woe]

7 minutes ago, IinD said:

I'd say no. People jump on a story real quick nowadays. They were very good, but they weren't an all time great. 

 

They lost to us and the Raiders and needed OT to beat the Browns. An all time great wouldn't have lost to us or the Raiders during the season.

That's because their OFFENSE. SUCKS.

 

The defense (and special teams) carried Denver's pathetic offense in every damn game apart from Green Bay. GB was the one game where the O ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED their share to getting the W. The result was a royal pounding.

 

If Denver's offense played AVERAGE in every game, Denver would be 19-0 blowing teams out of the water every week.

[IinD]

7 minutes ago, Moose Of Woe said:

That's because their OFFENSE. SUCKS.

 

The defense (and special teams) carried Denver's pathetic offense in every damn game apart from Green Bay. GB was the one game where the O ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED their share to getting the W. The result was a royal pounding.

 

If Denver's offense played AVERAGE in every game, Denver would be 19-0 blowing teams out of the water every week.

You can believe they'd go undefeated, but that's not reality. They gave up mid 20's (points) against us and Cleveland and 35  I think in their loss to Pitt.

 

They were awesome, but not an all time great. Offense aside.

[shakedownstreet]

9 minutes ago, Moose Of Woe said:

If Denver's offense played AVERAGE in every game, Denver would be 19-0 blowing teams out of the water every week.

 

[GwinnettColt]

2 hours ago, VDB said:

 

In all fairness, nobody except the Broncos considered him. 

 

Hair and Phillips worked together in Houston so it made sense....though I think it made Indy's win over Denver more likely as it was like we were playing the Texans.  

[VDB]

3 minutes ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

Hair and Phillips worked together in Houston so it made sense....though I think it made Indy's win over Denver more likely as it was like we were playing the Texans.  

Who is hair? Kubiak? Never heard him called that.

 

Wade was also the Broncos D coordinator in the 80s 

[GwinnettColt]

18 minutes ago, VDB said:

Who is hair? Kubiak? Never heard him called that.

 

Wade was also the Broncos D coordinator in the 80s 

 

Yep. You guessed it.  

 

Phillips was one of those guys, and he's admitted this, who wasn't a great head coach but a genius when it comes to putting together a defense.    I think the same might be true with Norv Turner on the offensive side of the ball.   

[Moose Of Woe]

1 hour ago, IinD said:

You can believe they'd go undefeated, but that's not reality.

The defense (and special teams) won the super bowl and nearly every game this year with next to zero offensive output. If the offense were worth its salt, it's not a stretch at all to think they'd be unbeatable.

[VDB]

Just now, GwinnettColt said:

 

Yep. You guessed it.  

 

Phillips was one of those guys, and he's admitted this, who wasn't a great head coach but a genius when it comes to putting together a defense.    I think the same might be true with Norv Turner on the offensive side of the ball.   

 

Yeah earlier today I read that he said he wasnt a good head coach (Id say he's had some success as HC though) and Im glad that at this point he just wants to coach some defense. I really hope the Broncos lock him up for a long time. 

[GwinnettColt]

1 minute ago, VDB said:

 

Yeah earlier today I read that he said he wasnt a good head coach (Id say he's had some success as HC though) and Im glad that at this point he just wants to coach some defense. I really hope the Broncos lock him up for a long time. 

 

The D definitely won the game for them and Manning was along for the ride, I'm sorry to say.

 

I would put Denver as my second team except that I don't care for Elway and my in-laws are from Denver, which means that I cannot root for them so that they wouldn't think that they somehow "converted me" or something. 

 

I think they will.  I'm not sure of his age but I think he may be near 70, but Lebeau is still coaching and he's nearly 80.

[21isSuperman]

6 hours ago, VDB said:

 

You have to take in consideration that the league favors the offense now days. Everything is offense. In a league that pushes for high offensive stats, the Broncos defense completely dominated this year. Id say its an all time great. 

That's something to consider, but that benefits the defense too, to some degree.  More passing means more opportunities for sacks and picks.