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snkdy

Irsay interview

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It's nice that Irsay gave the interview......

 

But I don't think a number of his answers are believable.....

 

That's OK....      I'm not expecting the complete truth.

 

Hopefully things will be better between Pagano and Grigson in the future.

 

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49 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

I don't live in Indy.  Does anyone know where I can watch the video of the interview?  Thanks!

Go to wthr.com and click under sports. You should find it.

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Irsay views the knowledge, time, energy and money put into Ryan Grigson and Chuck Pagano as an investment in maturation. I understand. It's his team, and he will do what he thinks best. However, in my experience, not all investments - in money, people or enterprises - perform how you think they will.  Time will tell.

 

It is obvious that there were (are) systemic problems. We'll see if they get fixed.

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12 hours ago, NBColtsFanatic said:

Go to wthr.com and click under sports. You should find it.

Thanks, but unfortunately I can only find a short clip, but not the entire interview. Would have loved to hear everything from the man himself. 

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16 hours ago, snkdy said:

 

 

 Forced!
 When you sign guys for big $$, of course the HC is under great pressure to play the guy.
 And Sean Peyton said No One was in contacted with him.

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13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's nice that Irsay gave the interview......

 

But I don't think a number of his answers are believable.....

 

That's OK....      I'm not expecting the complete truth.

 

Hopefully things will be better between Pagano and Grigson in the future.

 

 

Funny that we'd believe unnamed sources close to the organization, but don't want to believe what comes straight from the head of the team.

 

I'm guessing Irsay is telling the truth, but it's not that simple.  Words like 'forced' aren't the same as 'let's give him every chance'.  And maybe they inquired if Payton was going to be available, but didn't contact his agent about coaching the team.  

 

It's all moot now.  I just just hope he's serious about addressing the line.

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52 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Irsay views the knowledge, time, energy and money put into Ryan Grigson and Chuck Pagano as an investment in maturation. I understand. It's his team, and he will do what he thinks best. However, in my experience, not all investments - in money, people or enterprises - perform how you think they will.  Time will tell.

 

It is obvious that there were (are) systemic problems. We'll see if they get fixed.

I definitely understand what you said here. However it is kind of nice to see loyalty in the nfl once in awhile.

 

but yes time will always tell

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We had "sources close to the team" that people want to believe, but don't want to believe the owner.  I guess people have reasons for the choices they make.

 

You know, instead of using "sources close to the team" for 4 months, maybe Doyel/Kravitz should've asked Irsay to comment last summer when the accusations were made and it would have saved everybody a lot of chatter.

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21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We had "sources close to the team" that people want to believe, but don't want to believe the owner.  I guess people have reasons for the choices they make.

 

You know, instead of using "sources close to the team" for 4 months, maybe Doyel/Kravitz should've asked Irsay to comment last summer when the accusations were made and it would have saved everybody a lot of chatter.

 Kravitz is closer to Irsay than any other media member in Indy. I heard him say on one of the local radio shows before Black Monday that Irsay hadn't returned one of his texts in months. Said Irsay was as quiet as he'd ever seen him.

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55 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

 Kravitz is closer to Irsay than any other media member in Indy. I heard him say on one of the local radio shows before Black Monday that Irsay hadn't returned one of his texts in months. Said Irsay was as quiet as he'd ever seen him.

One of the articles written could have said within it if they tried to contact Irsay or not, or if he had a comment.

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50 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

 Kravitz is closer to Irsay than any other media member in Indy. I heard him say on one of the local radio shows before Black Monday that Irsay hadn't returned one of his texts in months. Said Irsay was as quiet as he'd ever seen him.

Yeah, Irsay was pretty quiet all season long. Clearly he saw what we did but (obviously) had all the info as to why it was potentially that way. Ultimately, he's not going to throw his guys publicly under the bus, that's just good employer etiquette.  Given that the entire staff under Pagano has shifted now, It seems some rebalancing of power of some sort has occurred. We can only speculate, but I would imagine that as the season is over, they will simply not address it, or point to the veritable hospital wing worth of injuries we had this year (New Strength and Conditioning coach!).

 

At the end of the day, Irsay is going to say what he can to try and sweep the media melodrama under the rug, regardless of the truth to the claims that the media made. It's just how he likes his organization to operate. If it's not about the various good will things the team does, or on the field story, he doesn't like it to be there. "Horseshoe Guys" and all that.

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you want to improve your Offensive Line? why the hell are you signing the guy who failed to improve it for four straight years now to a contract extension? Irsay talks owner nonesense like he would admit that his GM has a god complex... 

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I'm glad that Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano fired most of their subordinate coaches.  Its smart business to cut loose the people mainly responsible for the problems

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The OL coaches aren't officially fired, what's the reason for that? You try this, you try that, it's just too simplistic to say it's just talent. Howard Mudd worked with 2 I drafted guys in Lilja and Saturday, a couple of fourth rounders in Jake Scott and Ryan Diem and only one first round pick in Glenn. It's not attributed to talent, IMO.

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32 minutes ago, chad72 said:

The OL coaches aren't officially fired, what's the reason for that? You try this, you try that, it's just too simplistic to say it's just talent. Howard Mudd worked with 2 I drafted guys in Lilja and Saturday, a couple of fourth rounders in Jake Scott and Ryan Diem and only one first round pick in Glenn. It's not attributed to talent, IMO.

I agree, FTMP... Although, I still attribute a lot if the problem to lack of talent due to bad drafting/signings. 

 

I also think that it is much harder to find good O-Linemen out of college than it was when Lilja, Diem, Scott, and Saturday came out. 

 

The part I agree with the most is that I don't think that the coaches are getting the most out of guys like Thornton, Harrison, and Holmes... This, in spite of the fact that I don't think that Holmes and Thornton were good picks. None of the free agent O-Linemen that we've signed have looked anything but lost (except Cherilus for a small portion of the brief time he wasn't injured).  I'd almost pick an O-Line coach at random and assume they'd be an upgrade over what we've had here recently. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, chad72 said:

The OL coaches aren't officially fired, what's the reason for that? You try this, you try that, it's just too simplistic to say it's just talent. Howard Mudd worked with 2 I drafted guys in Lilja and Saturday, a couple of fourth rounders in Jake Scott and Ryan Diem and only one first round pick in Glenn. It's not attributed to talent, IMO.

Disagree, I don't think you can judge if a guy has talent or not based on where he was or wasn't drafted.  Guys who stink get drafted early all the time and guys who are good fall through the cracks all the time.  Charlie Johnson and Tony Ugoh are two very good examples of this (both coached by Mudd by the way).  The draft is a guessing game. It's educated guessing but it's still guessing. 

 

While I do think Mudd was a very good o-line coach I think it's a disservice the to guys you listed to say it's not about talent.  You could have the best coach in the world if the players don't have talent there is nothing they can do with them. 

 

That's not to say the Colts shouldn't make a change at the o-line coach but it's possible that they need both better players and coaches. 

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5 hours ago, chad72 said:

The OL coaches aren't officially fired, what's the reason for that? You try this, you try that, it's just too simplistic to say it's just talent. Howard Mudd worked with 2 I drafted guys in Lilja and Saturday, a couple of fourth rounders in Jake Scott and Ryan Diem and only one first round pick in Glenn. It's not attributed to talent, IMO.

 

I think we'll get some clarity on the OL coach in the next couple days. There's a lot of noise about it so far, and one of the guys we have is evidently a free agent. Both Gilbert and Hunter have coached other positions and been assistant line coaches. If one or both of them is staying in a different capacity, I'm fine with that. I just hope we upgrade the primary job.

 

I think the line coaches are partly to blame for the center carousel the last two years, also. If the position coach can't go in and say 'I want this guy, he's our best option,' then I wonder what he's really doing as the position coach. And if the position coach wanted Harrison, then that's even worse.

 

Talent needs work, also. 

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19 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm glad that Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano fired most of their subordinate coaches.  Its smart business to cut loose the people mainly responsible for the problems

kappa?

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8 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

I also think that it is much harder to find good O-Linemen out of college than it was when Lilja, Diem, Scott, and Saturday came out. 

 

It is a two headed monster killing the modern game.  The read option spread offenses of college, and the NFL / NFLPA CBA of 2011.

 

The spread is killing QB's and O lineman as far as NFL quality.  Neither are prepared for the NFL. So you get the best ones you can and coach them up, right? Wrong.  The CBA limits contact between players and coaches in the offseason greatly now, (It's why Peyton and Eli pay for their receivers to go to Duke U. and workout). Once the season begins, the team can only have 14 padded practices... for the whole season!  14!!

 

Players can't watch film and brainstorm with coaches at their facility in off season, and can't practice in full pads during the season  You wonder why  some players look lost or untalented?  The art of tackling is gone.  Can't teach it in limited time.  Injuries have skyrocketed since 2011, and will go up even more.  I beleive we will find the CBA to be the blame.

 

So the Players win in 2011 is the whole Leagues loss.  The web is littered with stories about the CBA and its effects.  I link 2 here I had read.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13114418/practice-restrictions-hurting-quarterback-development-nfl

 

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015/9/4/9226351/the-collective-bargaining-agreement-has-really-made-it-tough-on-nfl

 

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12 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Disagree, I don't think you can judge if a guy has talent or not based on where he was or wasn't drafted.  Guys who stink get drafted early all the time and guys who are good fall through the cracks all the time.  Charlie Johnson and Tony Ugoh are two very good examples of this (both coached by Mudd by the way).  The draft is a guessing game. It's educated guessing but it's still guessing. 

 

While I do think Mudd was a very good o-line coach I think it's a disservice the to guys you listed to say it's not about talent.  You could have the best coach in the world if the players don't have talent there is nothing they can do with them. 

 

That's not to say the Colts shouldn't make a change at the o-line coach but it's possible that they need both better players and coaches. 

 

I don't think it is a disservice. I do think our OL during the Jeff Saturday days was made to look better with Peyton's quick release in pass protection. While the Grigson era OL may not measure as a sum of parts to the Polian-Peyton era OL, I don't think the coaching or Andrew Luck are helping to maximize what the existing talent can do, IMO.

 

And yes, the spread offenses in college are killing the overall talent pool too, I agree. I would think the NFL could mandate OL from spread offenses be ranked lower during their evaluation thus sending a message to college coaches to at least incorporate enough traditional sets, even if it is not a staple of their offense.

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11 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

I don't think it is a disservice. I do think our OL during the Jeff Saturday days was made to look better with Peyton's quick release in pass protection. While the Grigson era OL may not measure as a sum of parts to the Polian-Peyton era OL, I don't think the coaching or Andrew Luck are helping to maximize what the existing talent can do, IMO.

 

And yes, the spread offenses in college are killing the overall talent pool too, I agree. I would think the NFL could mandate OL from spread offenses be ranked lower during their evaluation thus sending a message to college coaches to at least incorporate enough traditional sets, even if it is not a staple of their offense.

I do.  In addition to being good at protecting Peyton they were also extremely good at run blocking as the produced a 1000 yard rusher every year from 1997-2007 except for one and with four different running backs.  Also, anytime Peyton did need time to throw he had it.  While he did have a quick release he could also hold it and launch it deep when he wanted too and at least some of that credit has to go to the line. That unit was a very god unit and while Mudd should get his share of the credit so should he players who were good in their own right. 

 

I agree spread offenses in college have really hurt the o-line talent in the NFL.  Polian pointed this out earlier this year on ESPN.  He called it an epidemic and encouraged the NFL to try to come up with a way to help develop linemen.  His suggestion was to maybe create spot on the practice squad that wouldn't count against your roster for an o-lineman only and that other teams couldn't claim that player and have that spot be able to be used for up two years for a first three year player to let teams work on developing lineman. 

 

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1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I agree spread offenses in college have really hurt the o-line talent in the NFL.  Polian pointed this out earlier this year on ESPN.  He called it an epidemic and encouraged the NFL to try to come up with a way to help develop linemen.  His suggestion was to maybe create spot on the practice squad that wouldn't count against your roster for an o-lineman only and that other teams couldn't claim that player and have that spot be able to be used for up two years for a first three year player to let teams work on developing lineman. 

 

If they're not going to invest in some kind of developmental league (my idea is to work with the CFL), then they need to just expand the rosters and loosen some of the practice squad restrictions. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Good luck trying to get college coaches to adjust their approach for the benefit of the NFL. Those guys are just trying to keep their jobs, they're not trying to help NFL guys do their jobs. 

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16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

So the Players win in 2011 is the whole Leagues loss.  The web is littered with stories about the CBA and its effects.  I link 2 here I had read.

 

Rookie contracts being limited to four years has an impact, also. Teams basically have to develop and be ready to re-commit to a player after three or four seasons, and if not, you're looking to draft the next guy and develop him. We're seeing a turnstile of OL prospects who never really get the time they need. Heaven forbid a guy gets hurt. 

 

Khaled Holmes has been the preseason starter two years out his three in the league, and he still only has nine starts and 667 total snaps since 2013. For comparison's sake, Stefan Wisniewski played 1,058 snaps this year alone. And now Holmes is going into a contract year, if he even makes the roster. Let's say he does, and let's say he has a great season. Now we have to commit to him based on one good year. He's more likely to walk in free agency, especially at what's considered a non-premium position, and we're back to square one, trying to develop a young guy in limited practice time. 

 

With OL, if they're not playing in their first year or two -- which is probably too soon, given the differences from college to NFL -- there's almost no way they're going to develop within the four years you have them.

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All this OL development talk is making me think maybe it's smarter to sign veteran linemen, even at a premium. Age is probably less of an issue at OL than any other position, and as long as you're not putting out big guarantees, you're not locking yourself down contractually. 

 

You'd get proven performers, and you can cherry pick guys who are scheme fits. Doesn't mean you don't draft and develop, especially at tackle. 

 

Ugh.

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47 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If they're not going to invest in some kind of developmental league (my idea is to work with the CFL), then they need to just expand the rosters and loosen some of the practice squad restrictions. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Good luck trying to get college coaches to adjust their approach for the benefit of the NFL. Those guys are just trying to keep their jobs, they're not trying to help NFL guys do their jobs. 

Oh I don't think anyone really expects college coaches to change for the NFL.

 

I thought Polian's idea to pretty much create an extra practice squad spot for an o-lineman and protecting it was interesting. 

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Best part of that Jim I-rsay INDY Star interview was right here: 

 

"It’s not that we lost – it’s how we lost,” he says. “It really concerned me. Believe me, I was saying, ‘Why can’t we be like the Ravens and play the Patriots in Foxborough and play them that tight? Why do we get blown out?’

 

Don't forget to add the Pittsburgh Steelers to that stumbling block enigma Jimmy. I applaud you for asking the right question though. 

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