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The Grigson / Pagano saga (merged)


Dustin

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7 minutes ago, Tyler Dewar said:

 

Also, why would Grigson help find a good coach to replace Pagano if he knows he is or could be, out the door anyways? He'd be the kind of guy that would vouch for Chip Kelley and then leave with his middle fingers in the air.

I think it just means that Irsay has decided that Chuck isn't good enough, so a replacement HC will be found.  And if the replacement is Cowher, or Gruden, or some high profile successful guy who wants a different GM, Grigson will go too.

 

But if the new guy that Irsay likes says that he can work with Ryan, Ryan stays.

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We need a coach who can put a "mean streak" in the players.  No team fears Indy.  Teams hate playing the Steelers, Cardinals, Seahawks to name a few.  Being nice doesn't work in the NFL.  People like Iupati and Incognito have mean streaks in them.  Make us feared and tenacious. 

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2 minutes ago, Doctor Mad said:

We need a coach who can put a "mean streak" in the players.  No team fears Indy.  Teams hate playing the Steelers, Cardinals, Seahawks to name a few.  Being nice doesn't work in the NFL.  People like Iupati and Incognito have mean streaks in them.  Make us feared and tenacious. 

I wish people would stop with this crap. We need a coach who can outcoach the other guy. He does that, it wont matter what his personality is - people will follow that guy into the bowels of hell if asked.

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7 minutes ago, Tyler Dewar said:

 

Also, why would Grigson help find a good coach to replace Pagano if he knows he is or could be, out the door anyways? He'd be the kind of guy that would vouch for Chip Kelley and then leave with his middle fingers in the air.

From what I've seen on Twitter, it looks like the new coach will determine whether Grigson stays or not. Maybe Jim irsay will be the main guy doing the coaching search. I'm sure Grigson can have a say or two, but that doesn't mean Irsay will agree. But who the heck knows, next week will be interesting....

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It would have been awkward, if not impossible, to retain him after all the speculation and events that have occured over the past 12 months. The one year contract offer clearly strained the relationship between Pagano and the organization. I'm just curious who else is going with him. Is Grigson going to be the GM moving forward? I would hope they go in a different direction there as well.

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I'm bummed to see Chuck go. I think if he had more say in his staff, these past few years would have been completely different. Grigson is one of biggest problems on this team. Meddling in coaching decisions, not addressing the O-line, etc. I would reign in Grigs' power, give Chuck 1 more year with his guys, and see how it plays out. We saw a glimpse of how good this team can be in the Denver game with competent playcalling.

 

I know this would never happen, but I also wouldn't want Chip Kelly, Cower, Gruden, Saban, or any of the "big names" as they usually don't live up to their past successes.

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20 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

From what I've seen on Twitter, it looks like the new coach will determine whether Grigson stays or not. Maybe Jim irsay will be the main guy doing the coaching search. I'm sure Grigson can have a say or two, but that doesn't mean Irsay will agree. But who the heck knows, next week will be interesting....

We don't know the extent of the involvement, but it makes sense that Irsay will lead the search.

 

You know, if a GM lead the search, the first question he'll ask the candidate "Sir, would you unconditionally support the current GM?"

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26 minutes ago, Doctor Mad said:

We need a coach who can put a "mean streak" in the players.  No team fears Indy.  Teams hate playing the Steelers, Cardinals, Seahawks to name a few.  Being nice doesn't work in the NFL.  People like Iupati and Incognito have mean streaks in them.  Make us feared and tenacious.

Yep. A coach that is both respected and revered but also one who demands a high standard and lays into guys for poor performances and holds them accountable. As great as Pagano may be as a man, he lacks a mean streak. He clearly lacks the ability to instill fear into players. And I don't mean the kind of fear that causes the players to resent him. People like Cowher, Arians & Mike Tomlin- these guys visibly have a command over the team and guys know the standard of expectation on every drive and every play.

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No way in hell Irsay let's that * Grigson come back next year. Its like I've been saying. We need a GM who'll swing for the fences in free agency and bring in some elite players. Grigson's gone too. He can go somewhere else and sign Greg Toler over Sean Smith or Donald Thomas over Louis Vasquez, Or Todd Herremans over Ritchie Incognito. Or Erik Walden over Elvis Dumervil. Or Trent Cole over Parnell McPhee. Go on Grigson and take your mediocrity with you!!!!!!

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4 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

Yeah. But since the chances of us making the playoffs are so slim, I think Pagano will be gone anyway.

 

But, that's not a given, either.

None of this stuff is.

 

Some of the things WE KNOW are:

- We get off to slow starts. Poor prep?

- If we start off well, we bomb out in the second half. Poor halftime adjustments?

- The players love playing for him. That's mostly good, but could be bad.

- Our FA and Draft picks have been a mixed bag.

 

All of this 'they don't get along', and 'someone's head must roll', and 'if we don't make the playoffs, they're all gone' stuff is just speculation. And some of it's speculation off of other's speculation.

 

To me, if Grigson really is a meddler, get rid of him.

If that's with Jim's blessings, I'm concerned.

 

However, both Grigson & Chuck are first timers. Four years is enough time to determine if, and who, may need to be replaced. There were going to be growing pains, but you'd think 4 years is plenty of time.

 

Only these 3 guys know the truth, and it's Jim's call. I have no choice but to trust the right things will be done.

 

My feelings? Keep Chuck, replace some of the position coaches, and put them all on a short leash.

I just don't see anyone out there that wouldn't be just another crapshoot with a newby.

 

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1 minute ago, COLTS449 said:

No way in hell Irsay let's that * Grigson come back next year. Its like I've been saying. We need a GM who'll swing for the fences in free agency and bring in some elite players. Grigson's gone too. He can go somewhere else and sign Greg Toler over Sean Smith or Donald Thomas over Louis Vasquez, Or Todd Herremans over Ritchie Incognito. Or Erik Walden over Elvis Dumervil. Or Trent Cole over Parnell McPhee. Go on Grigson and take your mediocrity with you!!!!!!

All of which mathematically would have put us massively over the cap.........  I can't stand Grigs either but lets be real here.  Plus players actually have to want to come here as well.

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ya its getting kind of old, we will know next week whats going to happen, im all for getting rid of just Grisgs or Grigs and Pags, I think the worst possible decision is to hire a new coach and say meet your new GM, a power mongerer who is adequate at evaluating, cant find any good Oline players if his life depended on it, and the cherry on top is he might try to meddle with your job (starting lineups etc), meet Ryan Grigson

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11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

All of which mathematically would have put us massively over the cap.........  I can't stand Grigs either but lets be real here.  Plus players actually have to want to come here as well.

Good post.  The second easiest thing in life is to criticize someone else. 

 

The easiest thing in life is to criticize someone else without thinking first.

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What type of HC would the Colts be looking for upon Pagano's leaving? That's the $64,000 question. Would Irsay lone-wolf this or involve others besides Grigson (if he's still here)? And, given the past few head coaches such as Pagano, Caldwell, and Dungy would the Colts go in another direction with a much more (how should I say this?) .... no frills, head-strong, hard-driving, tenacious, kick-butt, no-excuses, HC?  Or, stay with a lower-keyed HC that can produce results like the Belichicks of the NFL that speak softly & carry a big stick?

 

Just what type of HC does everyone think the Colts should bring in? The next HCing change (which looks like will happen) is going to be HUGE for this franchise. 

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Chuck turned down a modest contract extension hoping to extract more from Irsay after leading the Colts to a superbowl appearance and got burnt.  Irsay isn't going to come to Chuck and give him a better contract offer after missing the playoffs entirely.  He's not going to offer him the same type of contract terms

that Chuck turned down.  Pagano may not be the biggest problem, but his ego and pride certainly played a big part in him not getting extended,  Live by the sword, die by the sword.

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We all seen/saw  this coming. I hope they hire someone good this time,that's got fire and ice in his veins and fierce competitor that will get the toughness out of the players. Chuck banked his whole philosophy on beating cancer and it's just a game,life is more important.  That is what killed this team, it's ok we will get them next time,and mediocre players. Should a never let Arians walk out the door.

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56 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

No way in hell Irsay let's that * Grigson come back next year. Its like I've been saying. We need a GM who'll swing for the fences in free agency and bring in some elite players. Grigson's gone too. He can go somewhere else and sign Greg Toler over Sean Smith or Donald Thomas over Louis Vasquez, Or Todd Herremans over Ritchie Incognito. Or Erik Walden over Elvis Dumervil. Or Trent Cole over Parnell McPhee. Go on Grigson and take your mediocrity with you!!!!!!

 

Excellent examples.   Walden was a decent pick-up, though, IMO.  

 

And don't forget the Daniel Adongo experiment.  

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http://www.wthr.com/story/30863550/kravitz-grigsons-meddling-helped-undermine-soon-to-be-fired-pagano

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

  1. Grigson, who traded a first-round pick to the Cleveland Browns for running back Trent Richardson, continued to insist that Richardson play, and even start, despite the running back’s weight issues and obvious lack of production. According to sources, Grigson was concerned with creating the narrative that it was a good trade, something it clearly was not.
  2.  
  3. Grigson insisted the Colts s continue to use Josh Cribbs, the veteran punt and kick returner he signed last season, despite the wishes of Pagano and some elements of his coaching staff. Cribbs committed a devastating fumble on a punt return in the AFC title game that opened the door to the Patriots’ 45-7 blowout.
  4.  
  5. According to sources, when Pagano wanted to discipline players – one of them being Billy Winn, who was late for some meetings – Grigson overruled him and would not let Pagano do what he wanted to do. "The culture here now is the worst I’ve ever seen it," a source said, pointing to the number of times Colts players have been arrested in the past year or two.
  6.  
  7. As reported previously elsewhere and confirmed by my sources, offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton was forced on Pagano. Hamilton was finally fired during the season and replaced by a Pagano confidante, Rob Chudzinski. "Pep was never answerable to Chuck," a source told me. "Pep answered to Ryan, and everybody in the building knew it."
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