Chris Polian versus Ryan Grigson

[SteelDragon]

Are we appreciably better off than we would have been with Chris and the puppeteer/daddy,  Bill? Since Chris never had the leeway to spend in FA like Grigs, never had the chance to wipe the slate clean,  and only had a few drafts to prove himself, It'll  be curious to see if Irsay pulls the plug on Grigs as quickly. 

Is Grigs superior, equal, or inferior to CPolian? What says you? 

[DougDew]

WOW...nevermind.

 

 

[SteelDragon]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

WOW...nevermind.

 

 

Thanks for your input

[Coltfreak]

Chris Polian was and is horrible.... did he EVER do anything right? Grigson has brought in some nice players in the draft.

 

BTW the only issue I have ever had with Uncle Bill is that he tried to get Chris in as GM.  He was thinking of his family over the Colts.  So I dont blame him for trying.  Bill wasone of the best GM in the history of football

 

 

[Bird dog]

6 minutes ago, SteelDragon said:

Are we appreciably worse off than we would have been with Chris and the puppeteer/daddy,  Bill? Since Chris never had the leeway to spend in FA like Grigs, never had the chance to wipe the slate clean,  and only had a few drafts to prove himself, It'll  be curious to see if Irsay pulls the plug on Grigs as quickly. 

Is Grigs superior, equal, or inferior to CPolian? What says you? 

 

6 minutes ago, SteelDragon said:

Are we appreciably worse off than we would have been with Chris and the puppeteer/daddy,  Bill? Since Chris never had the leeway to spend in FA like Grigs, never had the chance to wipe the slate clean,  and only had a few drafts to prove himself, It'll  be curious to see if Irsay pulls the plug on Grigs as quickly. 

Is Grigs superior, equal, or inferior to CPolian? What says you? 

If Hindsight were foresight ?

[SteelDragon]

The 2007 draft,  assuming it was Chris 's, was awful.  It also looks like a weak draft year. Ugoh was disastrous. 

2008-11, was mediocre.  Alot of those players are still in the league and fared better with other teams. 

I think Chris is an average gm. I think Grigson is only marginally better

[twfish]

100% grigs. Chris inherited a much much better team and rode off the success of bill and Grigs built a contending team from the ground up.

[18Manning]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Chris Polian was and is horrible.... did he EVER do anything right? Grigson has brought in some nice players in the draft.

 

BTW the only issue I have ever had with Uncle Bill is that he tried to get Chris in as GM.  He was thinking of his family over the Colts.  So I dont blame him for trying.  Bill wasone of the best GM in the history of football

 

 

 

I agree with this. Bill was/is a smart, football guy.

[bap1331]

Can we bring back bill Polian? Father vs son who is the jaguars gm lol

[SteelDragon]

3 hours ago, Bird dog said:

 

If Hindsight were foresight ?

Ehhh, it doesn't matter.  CPOLIAN was garbage and, like most,  I just can't embrace the Grigson era either. 

I hope Irsay can pry away a top level GM from another team.  We need top level experience a la Bill Polian whom we pryed away from Carolina. No one saw that coming. We need Irsay to pull the rabbit out of the hat again,  least we waste away greatness at QB again

[Dustin]

The two best players on the o-line are Polian guys.

[grmasterb]

Grigson has been a better cap manager than Chris.

[SteelDragon]

33 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

Grigson has been a better cap manager than Chris.

Great point.  I have no problem with Grigs as a cap manager. A few FAs managed to get over,  but nothing obscene

[jchandler7]

5 hours ago, bap1331 said:

Can we bring back bill Polian? Father vs son who is the jaguars gm lol

David Caldwell is the GM for Jacksonville, not Chris. Chris is one of Caldwell's minions though.

[Esquire59]

Its a good discuss, Steel.  My take is Grigson is considerably better.  I don't want to be mistaken for a Grigs defender.  Truth is, he's unfortunately had more misses than makes and that just can't happen.  But, I don't think many of us disagreed with his choices until after they were clearly misses.  I mean, I felt like Herremans was the 2-3 year end-of-career interior anchor we needed.  I didn't like the Dre Johnson signing, but felt he'd have one good year.  Many of us thought Trent Richardson would be a good back.  Trent Cole seemed like a good pass rush fill-in.  They're just bad misses.  OTOH, take away Ze German and Grigs' drafts have been pretty darn good.  His defensive draft this year has us with 3-4 really good starting players for the next 5-10 years (Anderson (pro bowler in making), Perry, Geathers.  Hopefully Dijon cuts the mustard as he progresses).  Denzelle Good looks, uh, good too.  He's had some FA hits too. Langford, Doyle, Lowery, Adams, Gore. 

 

For me, I truly felt like Chris Polian was nepotism at its worst. 

[jvan1973]

I was hoping this was a death match video

[southwest1]

Anybody looks like a GM wizard next to Chris Polian. Not particularly deep analysis on my part I know. 

 

All I remember about Chris is that on the official website he created this blue 1st responder dot feature that nobody cared for because the dot wouldn't disappear until you typed something in it & it was so big [the dot] that you couldn't see what you wrote & once the dot disappeared the 1st person who replied looked like a grade school kid who couldn't spell or construct a sentence. 

 

Eventually, no INDY fans left initial responses when replying to a team topic on Colts.com out of frustration & the dot rolled away faster than it arrived. It was a total disaster. Perhaps the idea sounded good on paper, but it's useful applications soon become obsolete like forming a house of cards & then claiming you're an architect. 

 

Maybe Chris was a descent scout, but as a GM, he left a lot to be desired. 

[rmerry7710]

first round picks:  Luck (no brainer), Werner (total loser - his college film showed him giving up on plays), Trent Richardson (who couldn't run behind a Cleveland line that was better than ours); Dorsett (not a position of need).  You can't consistently miss with your first round pick.

 

Job one was to protect number 12.  Now we are down three quarterbacks due to poor offensive line play.  Failures with the draft, failure with a significant number of free agents, and failure to protect number 12 - three strikes and you are out!!

[lennymoore24]

I have thought about this much.  Grigson has gotten some good gems like Hilton, Anderson, and Parry. Luck doesn't count because he was going to be drafted.  But overall, I think he has done a poor job.  His free agent signings have mostly missed.  And although I think this years draft is very good, the previous two were bad.

 

One thing to consider as well as both Grigson and Pagano were first time in their positions.  I think it would be expected there would be growing pains.  

 

Bill Polian is one of the great talent evaluaters in NFL history.  Can't just find his level so easily.

[throwing BBZ]

How do i feel about the execution of Polian & Grigson?
 Well. i`m all for it!

John McKay ;-)

[twfish]

13 hours ago, Dustin said:

The two best players on the o-line are Polian guys.

Reitz has had a good year but I don't think he is as good as jack. Although he did shut out jj watt one game so that is impressive

[DougDew]

What a stupid question...sorry...but it is.

 

Chris/Bill Polian left the team with about $20 million in dead cap space and more if we didn't keep a washed up Freeney at $14 million his last year....with no cap space to sign anybody.

 

Grigson or the next GM can cut all of his FA signings and the Colts would have about $6 million of dead cap space (on a much higher cap ceiling) with enough cap space to sign several very good FAs. 

 

The comparison isn't even close.

[twfish]

5 hours ago, rmerry7710 said:

first round picks:  Luck (no brainer), Werner (total loser - his college film showed him giving up on plays), Trent Richardson (who couldn't run behind a Cleveland line that was better than ours); Dorsett (not a position of need).  You can't consistently miss with your first round pick.

 

Job one was to protect number 12.  Now we are down three quarterbacks due to poor offensive line play.  Failures with the draft, failure with a significant number of free agents, and failure to protect number 12 - three strikes and you are out!!

Drafting an O-line wasn't much of a priority last year. The o-line had gelled together very nicely and looked great towards the end of the year plus we had signed 2 guys in the free agency in Herremans and heenan so he adressed the o-line and he did draft 1 even though it was in the seventh round he did pretty decent when he was thrown in. Also the injuries are not the o-line fault. Andrews shoulder was is believed he hurt it when he tackled someone after an interception and his laceration was caused when he rushed into Denver players. Whitehurst pulled a hammy outside the pocket, hassleback.... well really what back up player is going to survive any o-line after 8 games and be playing while there 40? Also grigs did take a offensive player with there first pick (2nd round) in Mewhort. Drafting dorsett now kinda makes sense since we really have 3 players in Hilton Moncreif and dorsett since aj hasn't panned out and Griff broke his ribs. Hindsight is a pain ain't it? We had 1 Rb when we picked up trent who really had a decent rookie season in Cleveland wich is rare for anyone there so why not lock down someone who could have been a franchise running back? He had speed, the moves, the hands, the physicality he just couldn't put it together. We also desperately needed a olb so grigs reached in his second draft and got a need and that's what happens. Sorry your post is based on hindsight. Go back in time and put your self in there shoes. I never was a werner fan to begin with but I can see why he was picked. Ih, also you do realism there are 6 other rounds right?

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, twfish said:

Drafting an O-line wasn't much of a priority last year. The o-line had gelled together very nicely and looked great towards the end of the year plus we had signed 2 guys in the free agency in Herremans and heenan so he adressed the o-line and he did draft 1 even though it was in the seventh round he did pretty decent when he was thrown in. Also the injuries are not the o-line fault. Andrews shoulder was is believed he hurt it when he tackled someone after an interception and his laceration was caused when he rushed into Denver players. Whitehurst pulled a hammy outside the pocket, hassleback.... well really what back up player is going to survive any o-line after 8 games and be playing while there 40? Also grigs did take a offensive player with there first pick (2nd round) in Mewhort. Drafting dorsett now kinda makes sense since we really have 3 players in Hilton Moncreif and dorsett since aj hasn't panned out and Griff broke his ribs. Hindsight is a pain ain't it? We had 1 Rb when we picked up trent who really had a decent rookie season in Cleveland wich is rare for anyone there so why not lock down someone who could have been a franchise running back? He had speed, the moves, the hands, the physicality he just couldn't put it together. We also desperately needed a olb so grigs reached in his second draft and got a need and that's what happens. Sorry your post is based on hindsight. Go back in time and put your self in there shoes. I never was a werner fan to begin with but I can see why he was picked. Ih, also you do realism there are 6 other rounds right?

Great post.

 

Yes, nobody was clamoring for Oline upgrades after the stretch last season (okay some were).  It was mainly .."why not Malcolm Brown or Eddie Goldman in round 1".  It was the DL that most wanted upgraded...and Grigson did upgrade it. Parry and Anderson, not to mention LANGFORD...who many were criticizing.  How everyone now conveniently forgets those three very good additions.

 

Luck was hurt due to his aggressive play, not because of the Oline.  The reason MH was not a starter his last few years is because he was very brittle when he was.  As a starter, he became unreliable due to injuries...and became available to be our backup.

 

Whitehurst was out of the pocket...it happens in the NFL.

 

Grigson's mid round picks are no worse than HOF GMs mid round picks.  Richardson was a fraud and fooled everyone.

 

Grigson whiffed on Werner.  That's his ONLY BAD PICK. And that was coming off of a season where an illfitting Freeney just got paid $14million due to previous management and Robert Mathis getting old created a huge need at OLB.  Werner was a pick of need and I assume young GMs can learn from their mistake.

[Superman]

14 hours ago, Dustin said:

The two best players on the o-line are Polian guys.

 

So what?

[Superman]

I think it's time for Grigson to go. That said, I'd rather have him than Chris or Bill Polian at this point, and it's not even a hard decision.

[Dustin]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So what?

 

Polian can build an o-line better than Grigson can. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Polian can build an o-line better than Grigson can. 

 

Not really.

[Dustin]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Not really.

 

Ok.

[OLD FAN MAN]

8 hours ago, rmerry7710 said:

first round picks:  Luck (no brainer), Werner (total loser - his college film showed him giving up on plays), Trent Richardson (who couldn't run behind a Cleveland line that was better than ours); Dorsett (not a position of need).  You can't consistently miss with your first round pick.

 

Job one was to protect number 12.  Now we are down three quarterbacks due to poor offensive line play.  Failures with the draft, failure with a significant number of free agents, and failure to protect number 12 - three strikes and you are out!!

the truth hurts

[2006Coltsbestever]

The only things that I have had a problem with Grigson is the Trent trade and his inability to build a Good to Great O.Line. He has ignored building a solid Line to protect Andrew which doesn't make much sense. If he is still here, he has a golden opportunity to rebound with this Draft and get a couple of Good O.Lineman and perhaps a Great Pass Rusher. He should get credit for drafting Andrew instead of RG3, his TY pick was good too, so was the Moncrief pick, Parry pick was good too! Adams and Gore pickups good too eventhough they are older. So Grigs has had some good hits. He just needs to focus on the O.Line now and getting a Pass Rusher or 2 in here and we will be fine.

 

-He also traded for Vontae Davis!

[Malakai432]

21 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

Thanks for your input

 

Ahhhh, hmmmm yes indeed indubitably.  I gained a vast amount of insight from his comment.  

[Gavin]

Yeah Ill still take Grigsons ability to build a better O Line then Chris Polian though that's like offering 2 piles of crap and saying pick 1, Polians pile is just bigger then the other in my opinion. Chris gave us Seth Olsen. Thornton, Mewhort have shown  some improvement

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Yeah Ill still take Grigsons ability to build a better O Line then Chris Polian though that's like offering 2 piles of crap and saying pick 1, Polians pile is just bigger then the other in my opinion. Chris gave us Seth Olsen. Thornton, Mewhort have shown  some improvement

Adding info:

 

Neither Bill or Chris drafted Tarik Glenn.  Bill Tobin did.

 

But they did draft Tony Ugo by trading a first rounder and drafted bust G/C Mike Pollack in the second. 

 

Interestingly, their best OL picks were Ryan Diem in the 4th and Jake Scott in the 5th...proving that using high round picks on non-LT OL is a bit of a waste...I think Grigson GETS IT!!!!.

[southwest1]

10 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

I have thought about this much.  Grigson has gotten some good gems like Hilton, Anderson, and Parry. Luck doesn't count because he was going to be drafted.  But overall, I think he has done a poor job.  His free agent signings have mostly missed.  And although I think this years draft is very good, the previous two were bad.

 

One thing to consider as well as both Grigson and Pagano were first time in their positions.  I think it would be expected there would be growing pains.  

 

Bill Polian is one of the great talent evaluaters in NFL history.  Can't just find his level so easily.

Nice post LM24. You make a good point about Polian. His career as a GM is so vast across 3 franchises with superstar athletes that it's not fair to judge Grigson against it as a rookie GM in INDY. 

 

I always wonder too when you remember that he signed WR Darius Hayward Bey am I supposed to give him credit for a short term year long deal that didn't pan out because it wasn't over a period of say 3 yrs? Is a failure minimized by a shorted duration vs a long tenure if they still flame out & don't live up to their potential in INDY? 

 

I never give Grigs credit for drafting Luck either because when Ryan was hired by Jimmy he basically said  that I-rsay was the man who decided if Manning remained the Colts QB or not not Ryan. 

 

Yeah, Ryan did well with Hilton, Anderson, Parry, & Dorsett's speed has proven valuable. Trent Cole has made plays as a free agent too & Freeman initially looked great coming from the CFL. Langford has paid dividends too. 

 

It just bothers me that we are on our 4th QB now though. Why can't the GM protect anybody & how come other than Bradford & Gore our running game is a joke? I'm ready to cut Grigs loose. It's time. 

 

I realize that since Grigs got here in 2012 other franchises pay close attention to what players we cut & they peel off on the waiver wire before final rosters must be constructed, but I judge GMs on playoff advancements not fresh bodies. Yeah, I know we went from the wildcard, to the divisional round,to the AFC Championship Game...However, getting humiliated 45-7 doesn't sit well with me. It's not all Grigs fault sure, but I am not giving Ryan a pass. Forget that nonsense. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Not really enough body of work to tell who is better! Chris had one draft I thought was good. Grigson has had many and as you stated he has had the use of alot of free agent money! Honestly I think Chris would have been better, just saying! Grigson IMO makes moves to be bold and cool. Sometimes the best moves you make is the one you don't! I also don't like the CONSTANT roster moves to the bottom of the roster for what? To show Irsay he is doing his job? Really, If you bring them in give them time to learn the system and develop! Just my oppion!

[peytonmanning18]

On December 29, 2015 at 10:31 PM, SteelDragon said:

Are we appreciably better off than we would have been with Chris and the puppeteer/daddy,  Bill? Since Chris never had the leeway to spend in FA like Grigs, never had the chance to wipe the slate clean,  and only had a few drafts to prove himself, It'll  be curious to see if Irsay pulls the plug on Grigs as quickly. 

Is Grigs superior, equal, or inferior to CPolian? What says you? 

 

May least Grigson earned his job while Polian was a product of nepotism.  

[JPFolks]

On 12/29/2015 at 10:58 AM, jvan1973 said:

I was hoping this was a death match video

Q: Would there be a winner if they took each other out simultaneously?

 

A: Yes, us and the Jacksonville fans.