Tom Brady's post-game comments. Beginning to notice a trend.

[Shane Bond]

You've got it all wrong. It's Brady Gaga.

That's an insult to Gaga. She doesn't whine at all

[2006Coltsbestever]

I actually think losing to Denver bothers them less deep down since it happened vs. Brock and not Manning. It's a new guy.

You are probably right because losing to Manning is the worse thing possible to their fan base but not going undefeated bothers the crap out of them regardless. I also agree, it would be boring without her and a few of the others here at times. I love seeing what they will Post next LOL.

[P-Money]

I'm glad we have the moderators that we do otherwise this board would die rather quickly. Personal attacks are immature and childish. We're all here to talk football no matter the team we root for. Our mods seem to do a fantastic job of seeing out and banning the trollers and baiters. AM Football has been around here a long time and she has a right to stand up for her team/players. She keeps it interesting with her posts. Some people are so blinded by their hate for the Patriots that they get defensive and butt hurt when a poster tries to defend his/her team. This is an NFL general forum so if you can't handle it then stay in the Colts only forum.

[hawkeyes]

According to Blandino the call was correct but the refs should have told coach and QB what they were going to do (wind the clock). So the refs got it half right...

 

So its the refs jobs to keep the teams up to date on the rules of the game while playing the game?  They could have done so, but not sure they are required to do that so IMO they got it all right, not just half.

 

RE: the whiner - I've seen other QBs yell at refs before, but nothing like what Brady does.  He is heads and shoulders above all other QBs in his berating of the refs.   Can not believe they let him get away with it over and over again.   Sure, ok let him say something once, but when he does it again he deserves a flag!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I'm glad we have the moderators that we do otherwise this board would die rather quickly. Personal attacks are immature and childish. We're all here to talk football no matter the team we root for. Our mods seem to do a fantastic job of seeing out and banning the trollers and baiters. AM Football has been around here a long time and she has a right to stand up for her team/players. She keeps it interesting with her posts. Some people are so blinded by their hate for the Patriots that they get defensive and butt hurt when a poster tries to defend his/her team. This is an NFL general forum so if you can't handle it then stay in the Colts only forum.

We had a Thread a while back regarding Posters from opposing teams and I actually love it that other teams fans Post in here. It keeps it real interesting at times in here. Pretty much they are cool anyway too, so it's good for the Site. Also, yes the Moderators are great in here, they are usually on their game right away if something funky is going on.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Suspend the man

[Nadine]

When people start talking about other people ..... it downgrades the quality of discussion.

 

There are always going to be posters you don't like and don't want to talk to.  That's life.

 

No point in being nasty

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, P-Money said:

I'm glad we have the moderators that we do otherwise this board would die rather quickly. Personal attacks are immature and childish. We're all here to talk football no matter the team we root for. Our mods seem to do a fantastic job of seeing out and banning the trollers and baiters. AM Football has been around here a long time and she has a right to stand up for her team/players. She keeps it interesting with her posts. Some people are so blinded by their hate for the Patriots that they get defensive and butt hurt when a poster tries to defend his/her team. This is an NFL general forum so if you can't handle it then stay in the Colts only forum.

Just using your own words.....

Brady's treatment of the refs is immature and childish.  Repeatedly doing so would support the objective conclusions that he is an immature and childish person. 

Saying that immaturity and childishness is a function of competitive spirit is ..well... indicative of a fan who is simply blinded by their love of their team and is butt hurt about the undeniable truth of its QB, and yet is trying to deny it anyway.

[dgambill]

I don't have a big problem with it. Does it make me cringe a bit...sure. Would I want my child to act that way...no. That said its perfectly within the rules. It may not be my cup of tea but that doesn't mean he is doing something necessarily wrong. He plays with a lot of passion and clearly there are times when some calls didn't go his way so understandably he is going to be upset. I've seen lots of players complain. I've seen baseball players, basketball players, and tons of football players argue with the refs about a call. I don't know why Tom should be different. That passion he plays with (along with a ton of talent) is what makes him special. He fires up his teammates and himself. No matter I may not like all the ways he shows it he is clearly a champion and the greatest winner (football) of our time.

[amfootball]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don't have a big problem with it. Does it make me cringe a bit...sure. Would I want my child to act that way...no. That said its perfectly within the rules. It may not be my cup of tea but that doesn't mean he is doing something necessarily wrong. He plays with a lot of passion and clearly there are times when some calls didn't go his way so understandably he is going to be upset. I've seen lots of players complain. I've seen baseball players, basketball players, and tons of football players argue with the refs about a call. I don't know why Tom should be different. That passion he plays with (along with a ton of talent) is what makes him special. He fires up his teammates and himself. No matter I may not like all the ways he shows it he is clearly a champion and the greatest winner (football) of our time.

Great post dgam as usual. Personally, I have always liked players with emotion in any sport. Probably because the fan in me is right there with them in the joy and the despair of a play, game or season. I think I may have mentioned to you before how many in the Boston area were making fun of Brady for jumping up and down after the Butler pick and screaming and then you go on YouTube and see every single Pats fan doing the exact same thing.   Emotion and sports go hand and hand. The good and the bad.

[grmasterb]

There are plenty of examples of players with rings that are dirtbags (Lawrence Taylor and Darren Sharper quickly come to mind). But if the number of championships is the measure of class, give me Otto Graham.

[bluebombers87]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don't have a big problem with it. Does it make me cringe a bit...sure. Would I want my child to act that way...no. That said its perfectly within the rules. It may not be my cup of tea but that doesn't mean he is doing something necessarily wrong. He plays with a lot of passion and clearly there are times when some calls didn't go his way so understandably he is going to be upset. I've seen lots of players complain. I've seen baseball players, basketball players, and tons of football players argue with the refs about a call. I don't know why Tom should be different. That passion he plays with (along with a ton of talent) is what makes him special. He fires up his teammates and himself. No matter I may not like all the ways he shows it he is clearly a champion and the greatest winner (football) of our time.

There's arguing and then there's screaming unnecessarily. I have no problem with voicing your issues. 

If you wouldn't want your kids to act like that then why are you ok with their idols behaving that way? And it is against the rules, just enforced inconsistently.

My favorite story about officiating and interactions was a referee way back in the 60's bungled a call that went against The Bears coached by George Halas. Halas goes to the red and tells him something along the lines of if he (the ref) ever needs help with understanding the rules then to just let him know. But I guess he just wasn't as passionate as the divas today.

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

I That said its perfectly within the rules. It may not be my cup of tea but that doesn't mean he is doing something necessarily wrong.

Man...I get tired of having to continually educate the forum...

Just because a cop doesn't pull someone over for speeding doesn't mean that the speeder is within the law.

Just because a ref doesn't throw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct, doesn't mean Brady's unsportsmanlike conduct is within the rules.

See, it goes back to the 2003 AFCCG where the strategy was to mug Marvin Harrison as much as possible, because the refs wouldn't stop the game to throw all the flags.  Its an inherent culture of cheating that says, "if we do it enough the standard for breaking the rules will appear to shift to a point that it makes it look like we are playing within them."

 Brady routinely conducts himself in an unsportsmalike manner and  doesn't get flagged for it.  The refs need to make up a lot of lost ground over the rest of his career.

[ReMeDy]

5 hours ago, grmasterb said:

There are plenty of examples of players with rings that are dirtbags (Lawrence Taylor and Darren Sharper quickly come to mind). But if the number of championships is the measure of class, give me Otto Graham.

 

My only issue with that comparison is Lawrence Taylor and Darren Sharper are not QB's. To me, a QB is held to a higher standard, and Brady never cares about that.

[southwest1]

16 hours ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

Suspend the man

After the deflate gate outcome, I don't want to stroll down that path again. That whole fiasco took way too much time out of my life BHS & all I care about is discussing football performances anyway. Maybe you were being sarcastic. It comes with the territory. When a QB has multiple rings, they get the benefit of the doubt more than field generals with no hardware. Just like referee Ed Hochuli said to Cam Newton, "you haven't earned that call yet Cam."

It's not P.C. to say that, but it's the truth.

[southwest1]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don't have a big problem with it. Does it make me cringe a bit...sure. Would I want my child to act that way...no. That said its perfectly within the rules. It may not be my cup of tea but that doesn't mean he is doing something necessarily wrong. He plays with a lot of passion and clearly there are times when some calls didn't go his way so understandably he is going to be upset. I've seen lots of players complain. I've seen baseball players, basketball players, and tons of football players argue with the refs about a call. I don't know why Tom should be different. That passion he plays with (along with a ton of talent) is what makes him special. He fires up his teammates and himself. No matter I may not like all the ways he shows it he is clearly a champion and the greatest winner (football) of our time.

Yeah, Brady always scares the crap out of me with the ball in his hands & 45 seconds left. He's never done til the clock says runs out with 0's in the 4th QTR. Here's what always perplexes me though: Why does Tom get pumped up by head butting fellow teammates before the game? You don't wanna accelerate the likelihood of concussions & CTE right? He's a smart dude, but everytime Brady does that I shake my head.

[southwest1]

Whatever your opinion on Tom Brady is, I respect him for how nice he is toward Peyton Manning.

[2006Coltsbestever]

53 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Whatever your opinion on Tom Brady is, I respect him for how nice he is toward Peyton Manning.

They both respect the heck out of each other. Tom will even tell you that Peyton is better but Peyton would say Tom is better LOL. That in a way was today's Magic vs Bird. Tom is up 4-1 in Championships but Peyton is actually 2-1 vs Tom in AFC Title Games. Peyton has him in MVP's 5-2.

[southwest1]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They both respect the heck out of each other. Tom will even tell you that Peyton is better but Peyton would say Tom is better LOL. That in a way was today's Magic vs Bird. Tom is up 4-1 in Championships but Peyton is actually 2-1 vs Tom in AFC Title Games. Peyton has him in MVP's 5-2.

Yes, they do CBE. It's definitely a mutual admiration society that's for sure. Mutual drive & esteem among 2 HOF Greats is quite savvy, sly, & satisfactory indeed. 

[BOTT]

Hmm, what happened in this thread? Lol

[P-Money]

20 hours ago, DougDew said:

Just using your own words.....

Brady's treatment of the refs is immature and childish.  Repeatedly doing so would support the objective conclusions that he is an immature and childish person. 

Saying that immaturity and childishness is a function of competitive spirit is ..well... indicative of a fan who is simply blinded by their love of their team and is butt hurt about the undeniable truth of its QB, and yet is trying to deny it anyway.

 

Don't use my words if you have zero understanding of my point.  

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, P-Money said:

 

Don't use my words if you have zero understanding of my point.  

Trust me, I understand your point better than you do.

[ColtRider]

Tom Brady.

Being a fan of someone is one thing. Fanatical perfection of that someone is quite another.

[P-Money]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Trust me, I understand your point better than you do.

 

It's hilariously obvious that you don't because I never referenced Brady one time. It wasn't even about him.  Read it slowly and maybe you'll get it.  Have a nice day!! ☺ 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, P-Money said:

 

It's hilariously obvious that you don't because I never referenced Brady one time. It wasn't even about him.  Read it slowly and maybe you'll get it.  Have a nice day!! ☺ 

Half of this thread is about amfootball's comments, as was your post and mine.  I got it. 

Yeah, I agree, this thread has lived its life

[dgambill]

20 hours ago, DougDew said:

Man...I get tired of having to continually educate the forum...

Just because a cop doesn't pull someone over for speeding doesn't mean that the speeder is within the law.

Just because a ref doesn't throw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct, doesn't mean Brady's unsportsmanlike conduct is within the rules.

See, it goes back to the 2003 AFCCG where the strategy was to mug Marvin Harrison as much as possible, because the refs wouldn't stop the game to throw all the flags.  Its an inherent culture of cheating that says, "if we do it enough the standard for breaking the rules will appear to shift to a point that it makes it look like we are playing within them."

 Brady routinely conducts himself in an unsportsmalike manner and  doesn't get flagged for it.  The refs need to make up a lot of lost ground over the rest of his career.

That's a subjective call (unsportsman like conduct for arguing)....and clearly you are much too sensitive to be a referee in the NFL or any other major sport. Let the officials officiate....wouldn't they be the best judge of what is sportsmanlike and what language etc crosses the line since they are the one getting yelled at?? Clearly they have thicker skin than most on this forum and understand the passion and emotion in which these players are playing with. Like I said....I've seen players curse and get right up in refs faces and they let it go...and we are talking about Tom arguing about a bad call no different than Phillip Rivers or Tony Romo or any other qb I've seen out there. As far as the rules being broken...I don't think he is breaking the rules. It says nothing that I'm aware of about arguing a call. He doesn't touch the officials, he doesn't attack them, he argues his point and sure he probably throws in some colorful language when he disagrees but if arguing and using some language got you a penalty then every coach in the NFL would have numerous numerous flags against them.

I fully agree with your accessment of how the holding and coverage was back when we had Marvin and Reggie and its the same thing that defenses like the Rams or Seahawks have been using the last few years. Its a smart tactic. Its called "Setting the Tone"....we see it a lot in college basketball like with Louisville and other tough defensive teams. They may get a few fouls early but the little hand on the hip, the bumping, eventually the refs start to change the way they call the game. Is it right? Well it isn't the way the rules are written for the game to be played but it isn't cheating either....dictating the physicality can go either way...it can get you in foul trouble (or get you some bad penalties at bad times) but it yes can work in your advantage.  All that said....no I didn't act like that when I played...but I didn't think someone else was breaking the rules that argued with the officials. Some people play differently...express their emotions differently...would I be a little  embarrassed if I looked like that sometimes...sure...but then again he has 4 rings that he can tell people to kiss when they try to make fun of him....so yeah..he gets the last laugh. I wouldn't change his style...it works for him..just like Peyton or Lucks work for them.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That's a subjective call (unsportsman like conduct for arguing)....and clearly you are much too sensitive to be a referee in the NFL or any other major sport. Let the officials officiate....wouldn't they be the best judge of what is sportsmanlike and what language etc crosses the line since they are the one getting yelled at?? Clearly they have thicker skin than most on this forum and understand the passion and emotion in which these players are playing with. Like I said....I've seen players curse and get right up in refs faces and they let it go...and we are talking about Tom arguing about a bad call no different than Phillip Rivers or Tony Romo or any other qb I've seen out there. As far as the rules being broken...I don't think he is breaking the rules. It says nothing that I'm aware of about arguing a call. He doesn't touch the officials, he doesn't attack them, he argues his point and sure he probably throws in some colorful language when he disagrees but if arguing and using some language got you a penalty then every coach in the NFL would have numerous numerous flags against them.

I fully agree with your accessment of how the holding and coverage was back when we had Marvin and Reggie and its the same thing that defenses like the Rams or Seahawks have been using the last few years. Its a smart tactic. Its called "Setting the Tone"....we see it a lot in college basketball like with Louisville and other tough defensive teams. They may get a few fouls early but the little hand on the hip, the bumping, eventually the refs start to change the way they call the game. Is it right? Well it isn't the way the rules are written for the game to be played but it isn't cheating either....dictating the physicality can go either way...it can get you in foul trouble (or get you some bad penalties at bad times) but it yes can work in your advantage.  All that said....no I didn't act like that when I played...but I didn't think someone else was breaking the rules that argued with the officials. Some people play differently...express their emotions differently...would I be a little  embarrassed if I looked like that sometimes...sure...but then again he has 4 rings that he can tell people to kiss when they try to make fun of him....so yeah..he gets the last laugh. I wouldn't change his style...it works for him..just like Peyton or Lucks work for them.

Philip Rivers has in fact been flagged for this very thing

[dgambill]

16 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Yeah, Brady always scares the crap out of me with the ball in his hands & 45 seconds left. He's never done til the clock says runs out with 0's in the 4th QTR. Here's what always perplexes me though: Why does Tom get pumped up by head butting fellow teammates before the game? You don't wanna accelerate the likelihood of concussions & CTE right? He's a smart dude, but everytime Brady does that I shake my head.

Oh yeah...he is as clutch as they get. He may not have more game winning drives then Peyton or some others but that's a product of his work in the first 3 quarters more than the last.

Yeah I  crack up at some things lol...different strokes for different folks. Results are what matters and what he does clearly works for him and for his teammates who really respond well to his leadership. I used to do that stuff too in high school....but then again most qbs don't do that...its kinda dorky but hey...wakes him up and gets the blood flowing...I could think of some better ways to do it. At least it doesn't look like he is sleep walking through a game like Jay Cutler lol.

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I fully agree with your accessment of how the holding and coverage was back when we had Marvin and Reggie and its the same thing that defenses like the Rams or Seahawks have been using the last few years. Its a smart tactic. Its called "Setting the Tone"....we see it a lot in college basketball like with Louisville and other tough defensive teams. They may get a few fouls early but the little hand on the hip, the bumping, eventually the refs start to change the way they call the game. Is it right? Well it isn't the way the rules are written for the game to be played but it isn't cheating either....dictating the physicality can go either way...it can get you in foul trouble (or get you some bad penalties at bad times) but it yes can work in your advantage.  All that said....no I didn't act like that when I played...but I didn't think someone else was breaking the rules that argued with the officials. Some people play differently...express their emotions differently...would I be a little  embarrassed if I looked like that sometimes...sure...but then again he has 4 rings that he can tell people to kiss when they try to make fun of him....so yeah..he gets the last laugh. I wouldn't change his style...it works for him..just like Peyton or Lucks work for them.

That seems to be the prevailing excuse for doing it. 

As an analogy, organizing 17 teenagers to mob-loot a convenience store because there aren't enough cops to police every rulebreaker is also a 'smart" tactic.

Its defensive holding and/or illegal contact, for which the system does not provide enough officials or time during a set broadcast to flag all of the infractions.  That doesn't mean the players didn't commit a foul, just like a teenager that gets away with theft still committed the crime.

If the goal is to break the rules, or take advantage of the system, anybody can do it.  It doesn't take smarts.  It just takes a combination of cleverness and low character that people misinterpret as intelligence.  Do it often enough, they might call you a genius.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Philip Rivers has in fact been flagged for this very thing

Cool. I'm sure he caught an official on a bad day....it isn't a norm nor do I think EVERY time someone argues means it should be called. Heck if I saw one of my fellow officials blow some obvious calls like they did in that game I'd expect a firm tongue lashing too so clearly they cut some slack....and knowing Phillip who rarely uses foul language and is a pretty stand up guy most of the time probably bumped the ref or impeded in their discussion or something...doubt it was for language or a demonstratively jumping around or something....after all I mean we see guys do a lot of demonstrative stuff when they get a call against them....I don't know the example you are saying but let me just say its rare...and I don't think what Tom was doing the other night is in any way close to the intended spirit of the sportsmanship rule. That isn't just my opinion but clearly the officials the other night as they didn't call anything.

[braveheartcolt]

If they threw flags for whiny cry baby antics, the Patriots would start every drive on their own one yard line.

 

[dgambill]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That seems to be the prevailing excuse for doing it. 

As an analogy, organizing 17 teenagers to mob-loot a convenience store because there aren't enough cops to police every rulebreaker is also a 'smart" tactic.

Its defensive holding and/or illegal contact, for which the system does not provide enough officials or time during a set broadcast to flag all of the infractions.  That doesn't mean the players didn't commit a foul, just like a teenager that gets away with theft still committed the crime.

If the goal is to break the rules, or take advantage of the system, anybody can do it.  It doesn't take smarts.  It just takes a combination of cleverness and low character that people misinterpret as intelligence.  Do it often enough, they might call you a genius.

I'm sorry but we are talking about a football game here correct? Nobody was harmed (well I can't say some people on this board haven't been harmed emotionally by the Patriots)...trying to compare some grabbing by the defensive backs or touching past 5 yards to looting stores and harming a community is a bit of a stretch. I mean who is to say when the Pats were doing all this that our OL wasn't doing some holding and grabbing in the trenches...I mean EVERY single fan has on one occasion or another said that you could call holding on an lineman on every play. I'm not here to relive the past....we could have won those games had we matched their physicality....anticipated their defense better and schemed to beat it (pick routes/stacking receivers etc) but we didn't. Point of the thread seems to be to rag on Tom Brady (again) about something pretty minor and try to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Some think he is being childish....maybe he doesn't behave the way some would like him....but then again that's pretty subjective and I've not heard too many in the football circles criticize his leadership and his performance on the field. To me its no different than a great batter chatting at an umpire about the strike zone or a great pitcher. No different than Michael Jordan complaining about hand checking or a drive to the basket....but this is a Colts forum...and its Tom Brady...so I guess I shouldn't expect anything different.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

If they threw flags for whiny cry baby antics, the Patriots would start every drive on their own one yard line.

 

Indeed....and Rex Ryan would be thrown out of every game lol. Can you imagine NBA players like Lebron or Kobe? Or pitchers staring down umpires.....sure some get penalized when they cross the line but I don't want the NFL to be like MLB where the officials are the prima donas and take over a game...thank goodness these officials have much thicker skin than us sensitive little fans that want to cry and point fingers everytime someone has a melt down or does a dumb endzone dance.

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Oh yeah...he is as clutch as they get. He may not have more game winning drives then Peyton or some others but that's a product of his work in the first 3 quarters more than the last.

Yeah I  crack up at some things lol...different strokes for different folks. Results are what matters and what he does clearly works for him and for his teammates who really respond well to his leadership. I used to do that stuff too in high school....but then again most qbs don't do that...its kinda dorky but hey...wakes him up and gets the blood flowing...I could think of some better ways to do it

. At least it doesn't look like he is sleep walking through a game like Jay Cutler lol.

All excellent points dgm. At the end of the day, if it gets Brady's juices flowing & the team feeds of that mojo, why alter that successful formula now? Touche. I always smirk when Tommy yells at his linemen like "God darn it! I tell you where to slide the bleeping protection man. Just do what I tell ya already okay."

I suppose that's true LBs & other defensive plays may need a head butt to wake them up like going from a mild mannered civilian to a beast on the field sort of thing. Whatever works right.

Don't get me started on Jay Cutler & his as long as the check clears mentality vs wins as an after thought. SMH. But I must admit that Jay as a QB almost looks respectable now in Fox's system or Adam Gase's system anyway. It's a Christmas miracle man.  

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm sorry but we are talking about a football game here correct? Nobody was harmed (well I can't say some people on this board haven't been harmed emotionally by the Patriots)...trying to compare some grabbing by the defensive backs or touching past 5 yards to looting stores and harming a community is a bit of a stretch. I mean who is to say when the Pats were doing all this that our OL wasn't doing some holding and grabbing in the trenches...I mean EVERY single fan has on one occasion or another said that you could call holding on an lineman on every play. I'm not here to relive the past....we could have won those games had we matched their physicality....anticipated their defense better and schemed to beat it (pick routes/stacking receivers etc) but we didn't. Point of the thread seems to be to rag on Tom Brady (again) about something pretty minor and try to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Some think he is being childish....maybe he doesn't behave the way some would like him....but then again that's pretty subjective and I've not heard too many in the football circles criticize his leadership and his performance on the field. To me its no different than a great batter chatting at an umpire about the strike zone or a great pitcher. No different than Michael Jordan complaining about hand checking or a drive to the basket....but this is a Colts forum...and its Tom Brady...so I guess I shouldn't expect anything different.

No, what happens in a football game or a basketball game is inconsequential, because sports themselves are inconsequential relative to real life, which makes winning any game or 4 SBs inconsequential too.

But both the football game and real life have written rules of conduct AND as systems to enforce them, so the analogy I used is very good.  Figuring out ways to commit the infraction and beat the enforcement may be some people's prevailing tactic for succeeding. 

 If you succeed by constantly trying to beat the system that you agreed to abide by, that's not really indicative of genius or competitiveness because anybody can do it.  Its a sign of low character, or possibly even low intelligence...that they wouldn't succeed if the operated within the confines of the system. 

This isn't a mountain out of a molehill.  Its just one thread talking about how Brady berates officials, and several points being made that if he was in a baseball game, he'd routinely be ejected.

Maybe that says something about the differences in baseball from football and basketball.

[southwest1]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No, what happens in a football game or a basketball game is inconsequential, because sports themselves are inconsequential relative to real life, which makes winning any game or 4 SBs inconsequential too.

But both the football game and real life have written rules of conduct AND as systems to enforce them, so the analogy I used is very good.  Figuring out ways to commit the infraction and beat the enforcement may be some people's prevailing tactic for succeeding. 

 If you succeed by constantly trying to beat the system that you agreed to abide by, that's not really indicative of genius or competitiveness because anybody can do it.  Its a sign of low character, or possibly even low intelligence...that they wouldn't succeed if the operated within the confines of the system. 

This isn't a mountain out of a molehill.  Its just one thread talking about how Brady berates officials, and several points being made that if he was in a baseball game, he'd routinely be ejected.

Maybe that says something about the differences in baseball from football and basketball.

I get what you're diving at DD, but look at it from the NFL zebras perspective: Could you imagine the scrutiny the head judge would face if he tossed Brady out of a game for animated back talking? I agree all players must be respectful toward officiating crews all game long, but if Brady was ejected permanently from a game, TV revenue shares go down the toilet & networks pay millions for high fan viewership.

To paraphrase President LBJ: "You don't want to be a donkey [jack caboose] caught in a hailstorm. Just stand there & take it."

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I get what you're diving at DD, but look at it from the NFL zebras perspective: Could you imagine the scrutiny the head judge would face if he tossed Brady out of a game for animated back talking? I agree all players must be respectful toward officiating crews all game long, but if Brady was ejected permanently from a game, TV revenue shares go down the toilet & networks pay millions for high fan viewership.

To paraphrase President LBJ: "You don't want to be a donkey [jack caboose] caught in a hailstorm. Just stand there & take it."

I'm not advocating ejecting Brady or anybody...I'm just mentioning that baseball has done it for a century. 

I guess the modern generation doesn't find much value or attraction in law and order, and prefers to watch the animals try to run the zoo...so the NFL ratings analysts must think..

And why would it even be remotely accepted that Brady had a superior vantage point to see a DB holding 15 yards downfield?  I mean, Brady's not even right when he demeans the officials for being blind.

 

[dgambill]

44 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No, what happens in a football game or a basketball game is inconsequential, because sports themselves are inconsequential relative to real life, which makes winning any game or 4 SBs inconsequential too.

But both the football game and real life have written rules of conduct AND as systems to enforce them, so the analogy I used is very good.  Figuring out ways to commit the infraction and beat the enforcement may be some people's prevailing tactic for succeeding. 

 If you succeed by constantly trying to beat the system that you agreed to abide by, that's not really indicative of genius or competitiveness because anybody can do it.  Its a sign of low character, or possibly even low intelligence...that they wouldn't succeed if the operated within the confines of the system. 

This isn't a mountain out of a molehill.  Its just one thread talking about how Brady berates officials, and several points being made that if he was in a baseball game, he'd routinely be ejected.

Maybe that says something about the differences in baseball from football and basketball.

I honestly don't follow your analogy...every play in the NFL one rule or another is being broken.....very few get caught. Like I said OL/DL/CBs...heck even the qbs trying to draw the defense offside with the hard counts and the head bobbing...I mean that's against the spirit of the rules too....I mean it could go on and on. Comparing the in game hand battles and competitiveness to out right disregard for the law in real life is just a big leap to me. The thing is what your talking about...it isn't just the Patriots that have done that....same could be said about the Colts or just about any other team...things in the game they do. I mean the Colts last post season were very physical with DT and Peyton's receivers in that game....are we going to hold them accountable for the taking advantage of the refs too? I just think people have selective anger. They want to choose who is bad and who is good....when if you was to hold every player across the league on all teams to the standard your trying to set than no one could live up to it. Maybe its just me...I know its just a game and I don't take it too seriously. Its entertainment...not much different than a sitcom or WWE or anything else on tv. I'm not going to hold it to some great moral standard....else everything about it would cease to be enjoyable.

 

 

[dgambill]

My suggestion (and this is just a stupid suggestion and to no one in particular) is that if your are so sensitive that things like endzone celebrations and people hoping around and yelling is so unsettling and bothersome to you than perhaps watching sports may not be a good pastime for you. I'm thinking some more pc centric programming like Barney or Bob the Builder may be a less stressful show for your sensitive personality. We've seen it many times no matter how hard the NFL tries whether its half time shows, tape delay, flagging endzone celebrations, or suspend players they can't make 100% of the people happy and can't make the NFL offensive free.  I think some players complaining about a call is pretty far down their list. If such things honestly bother people I'm thinking they might want to take up a new past time...there is a line of course and the NFL has their standards and will enforce it. While some things can be very distasteful to me I choose to realize the world doesn't revolve around little ol me and my taste in how the game should be played etc. and if I want to continue to enjoy watching the all the things about the game I do enjoy I'm going to have to realize I've got to take what I deem the bad with it....and sometimes what I think is the bad is someone else's good. To quote a great philosopher "Such is life".

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I honestly don't follow your analogy...every play in the NFL one rule or another is being broken.....very few get caught. Like I said OL/DL/CBs...heck even the qbs trying to draw the defense offside with the hard counts and the head bobbing...I mean that's against the spirit of the rules too....I mean it could go on and on. Comparing the in game hand battles and competitiveness to out right disregard for the law in real life is just a big leap to me. The thing is what your talking about...it isn't just the Patriots that have done that....same could be said about the Colts or just about any other team...things in the game they do. I mean the Colts last post season were very physical with DT and Peyton's receivers in that game....are we going to hold them accountable for the taking advantage of the refs too? I just think people have selective anger. They want to choose who is bad and who is good....when if you was to hold every player across the league on all teams to the standard your trying to set than no one could live up to it. Maybe its just me...I know its just a game and I don't take it too seriously. Its entertainment...not much different than a sitcom or WWE or anything else on tv. I'm not going to hold it to some great moral standard....else everything about it would cease to be enjoyable.

 

 

It doesn't matter if the rules are broken all of the time all over the field.  What matters is if they are coached ho to break them and not get caught.

If/when you were a coach...did you coach your players the proper technique to defend a WR, or did you teach them how to hold against the rules but not get caught?

Did you say during your gameplanning..."Here's what we're going to do....the rulebook says that this  is a hold...but we can't cover Marvin and Reggie unless we hold......so since there is only 3 officials watching our DBs play, and we are playing a game that has to fit into a 4 hour TV slot, if every DB holds on every pass play, the officials won't be able to see every hold, and if they did, they wouldn't be able to keep the game within the 4 hour time slot if they penalize us every play. 

IOW, we'll be able to violate the holding rules every play because the game needs to fit within a 4 hour time slot....okay...so lets do that......ready...BREAK (clap hands)

And people think that's a genius at work.  No..its a criminal mind at work.  it doesn't matter that its just a game.

That kind of thinking isn't any different than a group of thugs planning to steal stuff out of a store because they know there aren't enough cops around to catch them all if they do it together.  Do you see now?

if that type of coaching is normal....at all levels of sports...well...taxpayers need to withdraw their funding from all professional, collegiate, and high school sports programs, IMO.  And its more than entertainment, I don't need high school coaches teaching my kids that moral standard

But I'm assuming that its just unique to the NE area, based upon who seems to defend that tactic.