Scouting notes: Joey Bosa, Ohio State EDGE

[Superman]

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/joey-bosa/

 

Lots of cutups for him on DB, and I've watched all 12 that they have so far, plus a few of his games live. He's a great player, very disruptive, had a lot of production in 2014 and has been doubled like crazy in 2015. Good gameplans can neutralize him, though (which is true of a lot of great defenders). Well rounded front player, technically sound, plays with discipline. I wonder about his upside in the NFL. He's an underclassman, but I think consensus is that he comes out this year, and after watching him, I think he definitely should. Google "joey bosa gif" and you'll see lots of impressive plays.

 

I had to share this gif, showing how powerful he is at point of attack (this is a RT, not a TE) http://www.draftbreakdown.com/gif-embed/?clip=258335&gif=ImpeccablePassionateIvorybackedwoodswallow

 

I'm also going to predict some of his Combine numbers: I think he'll run a 4.85 forty with a pretty good ten yard split, he'll put up a 32" vertical, 113" broad jump, and 30 reps on the bench. Nothing special, but more than acceptable for someone 6'6", 275 pounds.

 

Size: Hard to judge, as he's probably going to line up all over the place. Definitely a big guy, well built, broad frame. He could put on another 15 pounds and play DE/DT, or he could lose 10 pounds and play OLB. Based on his play, I'd rather use him as a down lineman who lines up everywhere from 4 to 9, and as such, his current size is a little small, but not deficient. 4/5

 

Athleticism: I'm not impressed with him, athletically. He has a decent first step, and he can cover ground when he disengages from a blocker, but he's not going to turn and run like a track star. Has some burst, but not great closing speed. Decent bend around the corner, usually stays on balance even with blockers grabbing/leaning on him. Good short area quickness, and at times can be explosive. 6.5/10

 

Pass rush ability: He will make you miss, especially if you set up poorly. He'll bend the corner if you're soft on the edge, and he has a stutter step move to come back across your face if you overset either way, and so feasts against technically deficient blockers. Add to that really good footwork and very active and violent hands, and he can show some pass rush. Not a lot of dip or under moves, and he won't just blow by you to the outside. No considerable spin move or anything else to make you worry about how to block him, but still finds ways to beat blockers. Good bull rush, even against linemen. Has good quickness to beat interior linemen one on one. Good snap anticipation. Not elite in any respect as a pass rusher, and good blockers can handle him one on one. He'll get hits and hurries, not a lot of sacks. 6.5/10

 

Run game ability: Excellent run defender. Almost always diagnoses the play properly and puts himself in the right spot. Excellent angles, knows where to set the edge, knows where to engage the lead blocker, even when it's a pull blocker that you don't think he sees, even when he has to choose between two blockers. Because of his decision making, he makes plays that his teammates get to finish. But he will also stack and shed any blocker, and just make the play himself. He'll drive a blocker back into the running lane and finish with his long arms, he'll blow past a blocker or split a double team and nail the ball carrier straight up. He can work down the line and make the tackle from the backside. Lots of plays go away from him for these reasons, and he still winds up involved frequently. Has great motor, but sometimes won't run a play out if it's going away from him. If he's not double teamed, he's going to ruin any play to his side. 10/10

 

Coverage ability: Briefly, drops in coverage sparingly, but moves well enough laterally and has good awareness in short area zones. Saw him take great drops to disrupt a couple of pass plays. Can't cover anyone one on one, and they never asked him to. Feet, hips, etc., just aren't there to play man coverage. 3/5

 

Technical ability: A lot of this is covered in the previous sections. No technical issues to speak of, usually plays with good leverage, keeps his hands free, uses his arms well, stays straight up when they mush-rush. All of this allows him to come out strong when the play comes near him. I don't see anything that offenses can exploit. Only a few times did I see him crash too far inside on zone plays. 9/10

 

Versatility: As a front player, he can do tons of things. Lines up over the guard at times, and usually wins in both phases. Can line up wide and pass rush, directly over the tackle and 2-gap, can shoot gaps and beat doubles between c/g, g/t, t/te, whatever. Can play strongside and set the edge to contain the run, and has play making ability at Sam. Not really an ideal fit to play Rush backer. Can move inside and pass rush on third down, or play DE on early downs. Lots of position flexibility, especially in a multiple front. 4/5

 

Tackling: Takes good angles, breaks down well in space, but not rangy enough if he's one on one with a back trying to get around the corner. In traffic, he'll make tackles even when engaged with blockers. If he meets the ball carrier in the hole, the play is over. Will stretch out and get ankle tackles. 4/5

 

Play recognition: Usually sees exactly where the ball is and where it's going. Good option/read defender, diagnoses power blocking well and knows where to attack, gets his hands up when the ball is thrown over his head, chases back on screen plays, etc. Rarely takes the wrong gap or lane. Sometimes get caught over-pursuing. 8/10

 

Overall: 55/70, 79%, high first rounder. To me, it's hard to justify taking him in the top ten, given his (presumed) athletic profile. I don't know where he'll fit with the rest of the prospects available, but the fact that he's low on athleticism and pass rush makes me think his ceiling is limited. Will be a good pro, I don't think he'll ever be a great pro. More Chandler Jones than JJ Watt.

 

Scheme fit: 9/10, would be a great Sam backer with playmaking ability, could play inside on passing downs, good enough in space and a great read defender on option plays. Should be able to play multiple positions in any defensive front. 

 

Edit: I'll add some notes after the Michigan game.

[BProland85]

I've got a feeling he's gonna bust. He could be an average player at DE, but he lacks explosiveness so I don't think he'll be star.

[akcolt]

I've got a feeling he's gonna bust. He could be an average player at DE, but he lacks explosiveness so I don't think he'll be star.

I agree I hsve not been wowed when watching him play

[UKColt13]

He's not an explosive enough pass rusher for a 4-3 and not athletic enough for 3-4. Not really sure where exactly his best fit would be. Probably as a Sam in a hybrid scheme maybe?

[BrentMc11]

I guess I am in the minority here.  Every Ohio State game I have watched, as Superman states above:  "Very disruptive"

 

If he is not getting to the QB.....he still is within a range of tha ugly scowl.  Nobody wants to play against him.  Strong as 'heck.'

[BleedBlu8792]

See Greg Hardy but better in the run game... His strength is off the charts and I think he's deceptively fast for his size.

[Superman]

See Greg Hardy but better in the run game... His strength is off the charts and I think he's deceptively fast for his size.

 

That's the thing about doing this before the Combine. Just for kicks, I tried to project his Combine stats, but that's obviously meaningless. However, I don't know if he'll test 'deceptively fast.' I'll be especially interested in his broad jump, the 10 yard split in his 40 yard dash, and his three cone. But if none of those are impressive, then he'll qualify as an "unathletic EDGE," which isn't good for his pro prospects. 

[Superman]

I've got a feeling he's gonna bust. He could be an average player at DE, but he lacks explosiveness so I don't think he'll be star.

 

Bust is relative. If he goes top five, which everyone says he will, I think he'll be a disappointment. But I think he'll still be a good player over the long run. 

[NewColtsFan]

I've not really looked at anyone yet this year....

 

But in the stories I've seen and read about him,  what I get is this....

 

Has very mediocre production so far this year....

 

BUT....

 

That's because all offenses are focused on taking him out of the game...    so, he's always double-teamed,  and often triple-teamed.     So, that frees up other players to make plays.      So, Bosa impacts the game even when he's not piling up stats.

 

That's a good player........

 

I also read he's a likely top-5 player....    a probable top-3 player and a candidate for #1 overall.....

[Superman]

I've not really looked at anyone yet this year....

 

But in the stories I've seen and read about him,  what I get is this....

 

Has very mediocre production so far this year....

 

BUT....

 

That's because all offenses are focused on taking him out of the game...    so, he's always double-teamed,  and often triple-teamed.     So, that frees up other players to make plays.      So, Bosa impacts the game even when he's not piling up stats.

 

That's a good player........

 

I also read he's a likely top-5 player....    a probable top-3 player and a candidate for #1 overall.....

 

No question offenses focus on keeping him from making plays. He had 13.5 sacks last year, only 4 so far this year. He still has a bunch of tackles for loss and still makes plays. Teams run away from him a large majority of the time. He's often double teamed and chipped. His production dropping (really, just sacks) is easy to understand once you watch him.

 

I obviously plan to watch a lot more players, but already I'd say that Bosa isn't the kind of guy I'd want to draft in the top five or ten. I'd rather have Nkemdiche, for sure.

[BleedBlu8792]

That's the thing about doing this before the Combine. Just for kicks, I tried to project his Combine stats, but that's obviously meaningless. However, I don't know if he'll test 'deceptively fast.' I'll be especially interested in his broad jump, the 10 yard split in his 40 yard dash, and his three cone. But if none of those are impressive, then he'll qualify as an "unathletic EDGE," which isn't good for his pro prospects.

Should have used the work quick instead of fast. He won't have the numbers like Clowney had, but the guy won't give up on plays like Clowney did in college either. You don't have to question his stamina, durability, or heart. The kid just doesn't quit. He has the frame to get bigger and not sacrifice much agility, but I think he should stay where he's at.

He won't be a pure grade A pass rusher, but put him as the strong side DE, where he plays now, and he will win consistently against the run and win his one-on-one's against a large portion of the leagues RT's. He doesn't need strong inside help for him to shine. He's helped Adolphus Washington look really good by giving him more single looks inside.

I think he'll go 10-20, but it depends on how bad a team wants to bolster the outside of their defensive line. I think he can be a dominant strong side DE on a 4-3 team.

[Superman]

Should have used the work quick instead of fast. He won't have the numbers like Clowney had, but the guy won't give up on plays like Clowney did in college either. You don't have to question his stamina, durability, or heart. The kid just doesn't quit. He has the frame to get bigger and not sacrifice much agility, but I think he should stay where he's at.

He won't be a pure grade A pass rusher, but put him as the strong side DE, where he plays now, and he will win consistently against the run and win his one-on-one's against a large portion of the leagues RT's. He doesn't need strong inside help for him to shine. He's helped Adolphus Washington look really good by giving him more single looks inside.

I think he'll go 10-20, but it depends on how bad a team wants to bolster the outside of their defensive line. I think he can be a dominant strong side DE on a 4-3 team.

 

Yeah he has some quickness and burst to him. And I agree, strongside edge is where he should be in the pros. The question is whether you spend a high first rounder on an edge defender who isn't a great athlete and isn't a great pure pass rusher. Because of his positive traits, I think he has a pretty high floor, so there's not a lot of risk with him. But I question his upside.

[Defjamz26]

Nice write up. I still think he'll go top 5 probably. Too much talent. He may not be a 15+ sacks a year guy but he's definitely a 10 sack a year guy who might have double digit TFL and multiple QB hits ands hurries. He'll be an effective player regardless.

The guy who may be a better pass rusher than him long term is Shaq Lawson for me. Same traits and skills as Bosa, but more athletic.

[Gavin]

Joey Bosa

 

Pros

• Quick but not elite first step
• Has a EXCELLENTswim move to get to the inside and take a direct path to the QB
• Agile for a man his size
• Versatile, Can play a 43 DT or 34 DE......Don't think he is a stand up LB
• Takes good angles
• Could play SAM but I don't think would make a good rush linebacker, Just not enough get off for my liking
• Anticipates the snap well most of the time, Not often late
• Excellent play recognition

 

Cons

 

• Does not appear to have a 2nd polished move beyond the swim move and he doesn't use the swim move quite enough for my liking
• Good but not elite strength. I think like most players coming out of college he has to gain strength
• Not great closing burst

Basically I did this to say I agree with Supermans overall notes

[BleedBlu8792]

Joey Bosa

Pros

• Quick but not elite first step
• Has a EXCELLENTswim move to get to the inside and take a direct path to the QB
• Agile for a man his size
• Versatile, Can play a 43 DT or 34 DE......Don't think he is a stand up LB
• Takes good angles
• Could play SAM but I don't think would make a good rush linebacker, Just not enough get off for my liking
• Anticipates the snap well most of the time, Not often late
• Excellent play recognition

Cons

• Does not appear to have a 2nd polished move beyond the swim move and he doesn't use the swim move quite enough for my liking
• Good but not elite strength. I think like most players coming out of college he has to gain strength
• Not great closing burst

Basically I did this to say I agree with Supermans overall notes

The guy was benching 400 and squatting 500+ in highschool. Strength is the LAST thing that should be mentioned about him as a weakness.

[Gavin]

The guy was benching 400 and squatting 500+ in highschool. Strength is the LAST thing that should be mentioned about him as a weakness.

Where did ya hear or read that? Also benching 400-500lbs isn't quite the same as driving an O Lineman into the backfield with your legs that can bench the same or more then you thereby adding resistance unlike bench press

[BleedBlu8792]

Where did ya hear or read that? Also benching 400-500lbs isn't quite the same as driving an O Lineman into the backfield with your legs that can bench the same or more then you thereby adding resistance unlike bench press

That's where his squating numbers come in to play. He has the upper body strength to go with his lower body. Remember, this is what he was doing in highschool. He's gotten stronger since having been at Ohio State. You can look up his recruiting info when he played in Florida. Regardless, what he was doing in highschool was freakish. His brother Nick is almost identical to him and will be at Ohio State next year.

Scroll down until you get to Bosa..

https://fearthehat.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/signing-day-letters-of-intent/

[Gavin]

Meant to put I dont think his best fit is sam/rush linebacker... I think he could play it in limited snaps but I don't think he would be best used as that

[BleedBlu8792]

Meant to put I dont think his best fit is sam/rush linebacker... I think he could play it in limited snaps but I don't think he would be best used as that

It's not.. his best fit will be a LDE(strong side DE) in a 4-3. As a Buckeye fan I would love to see him in Seattle opposite Cliff Avril. He would do serious damage on that team with that defensive front. The Vikings would be anice excellent place for him as well. He would take over Brian Robison's spot probably day 1.

[Defjamz26]

It's not.. his best fit will be a LDE(strong side DE) in a 4-3. As a Buckeye fan I would love to see him in Seattle opposite Cliff Avril. He would do serious damage on that team with that defensive front. The Vikings would be anice excellent place for him as well. He would take over Brian Robison's spot probably day 1.

I think you'll see him on the Titans unfortunately. They could use help at a lot of spots, but like Jacksonville last season, a quality pass rusher might fall right into their laps.

[NFLfan]

The Vikings would be a nice excellent place for him as well. He would take over Brian Robison's spot probably day 1.

Can you say a bit more about why you think he would do well with the Vikes? I would like the rookie Danielle Hunter to replace Robison. The d-line is the deepest unit on the team. I would rather invest our top draft pick on an offensive lineman.

[BProland85]

I think you'll see him on the Titans unfortunately. They could use help at a lot of spots, but like Jacksonville last season, a quality pass rusher might fall right into their laps.

Titans run a 3/4 so he doesn't exactly fit their scheme.

[Gavin]

Titans run a 3/4 so he doesn't exactly fit their scheme.

He could play DT/DE in a 3/4..Preferably in a 1 gap system

[BleedBlu8792]

He could play DT/DE in a 3/4..Preferably in a 1 gap system

He would still need to add another 10+ lbs, in my opinion, to play in that role. As I stated earlier he has room to get bigger, but I think you take away from what he's great at.

[BleedBlu8792]

Can you say a bit more about why you think he would do well with the Vikes? I would like the rookie Danielle Hunter to replace Robison. The d-line is the deepest unit on the team. I would rather invest our top draft pick on an offensive lineman.

Put him next Joseph/Floyd and he will dominate his side of the line. He doesn't need inside help to make plays. He actually does the opposite, however pairing him with an elite interior would allow him to get more 1on1 looks and he will be in the backfield all day. Like I said earlier in the thread he's an excellent run defender who can still get in the backfield when needed. Give him the opportunity to go against RT's 1on1 consistently and he'll be 10+ sack guy. The Vikes interior would make him hard to defend on the edge.

[NFLfan]

Put him next Joseph/Floyd and he will dominate his side of the line. He doesn't need inside help to make plays. He actually does the opposite, however pairing him with an elite interior would allow him to get more 1on1 looks and he will be in the backfield all day. Like I said earlier in the thread he's an excellent run defender who can still get in the backfield when needed. Give him the opportunity to go against RT's 1on1 consistently and he'll be 10+ sack guy. The Vikes interior would make him hard to defend on the edge.

Ok. Great. Thank you.

[Defjamz26]

Titans run a 3/4 so he doesn't exactly fit their scheme.

I was thinking they do what Houston did with Watt and have him play 3-4 DE. He has the skill set to play inside with ease.

[BleedBlu8792]

I was thinking they do what Houston did with Watt and have him play 3-4 DE. He has the skill set to play inside with ease.

He would need to add weight to do that..

[BProland85]

I was thinking they do what Houston did with Watt and have him play 3-4 DE. He has the skill set to play inside with ease.

If he could add 15-20 pounds and still play with the same tenacity and burst at that weight then yes he could play that role.

[BleedBlu8792]

2 sacks and an INT.. heckuva game against Michigan today.

[Superman]

2 sacks and an INT.. heckuva game against Michigan today.

 

He made lots of plays. Michigan didn't double him that often, either. 

[wig]

He made lots of plays. Michigan didn't double him that often, either.

I saw him doubled quite a bit.

I also disagree with most people in here. He's a top 5 pick all day long and will be a very good 43 DE for years.

[Superman]

I saw him doubled quite a bit.

I also disagree with most people in here. He's a top 5 pick all day long and will be a very good 43 DE for years.

 

I didn't watch every snap of the game. And I'll go back and watch the cut-up once it's available. But I thought he was doubled less than usual.

 

It will be no surprise if Bosa goes top five. I should probably wait until I have a better handle on the rest of the draft before I declare anything, as there's only one player I like better so far. But he's an average pass rusher with average athleticism. Doesn't scream top five pick to me.