Bill Belichick Handling the Offensive Line Differently from Other Teams

[amfootball]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-made-simple-change-155902845.html

 

With all the talk about Oline's this year, I found this interesting story on how the Pats are handling their offensive line this year in a unique manner. Here are some snippets:

 

Beyond Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski, and Julian Edelman — not to mention Bill Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels at the helm — there is a less obvious reason to explain New England's fast offensive start: the fact they are revolutionizing their offensive line.

 

The Boston Herald took a deep dive on the frequency with which New England has been rotating its offensive line, and it's unlike anything else you'll find in football.

 

Through their first 30 offensive possessions this year, the Patriots have rolled out nine offensive-line combinations (not including kneels to end halves), and they deployed a 10th unique combination on goal-line packages against the Jaguars that resulted in three LeGarrette Blount rushing touchdowns. Against the Steelers in Week 1, they didn't begin consecutive possessions with the same offensive-line combination until the sixth and seventh possessions.

 

The idea to rotate linemen over the course of the game may not sound particularly groundbreaking. But compared with how the rest of the NFL approaches the offensive line, this is quite unusual.

 

In general, teams will take their best combination of linemen and use them all game long, rather than switching them out as New England is. The reasoning behind this traditional approach to line play isn't all that hard to fathom: Teams want to keep their best players in for as many possessions as possible, and switching it up will mess with communication and chemistry.

 

But Belichick has changed that, at least so far this season. As the Herald noted, this rotation is inevitably causing opposing defenses to prepare not just for different packages, but also for different combinations of linemen within one individual package and within different packages.

 

Dave DeGuglielmo, New England's offensive-line coach, told the Herald there were specific strategic reasons to explain the frequency of these rotations — though don't expect him to elaborate.

 

[NFLfan]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-made-simple-change-155902845.html

With all the talk about Oline's this year, I found this interesting story on how the Pats are handling their offensive line this year in a unique manner. Here are some snippets:

Beyond Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski, and Julian Edelman — not to mention Bill Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels at the helm — there is a less obvious reason to explain New England's fast offensive start: the fact they are revolutionizing their offensive line.

The Boston Herald took a deep dive on the frequency with which New England has been rotating its offensive line, and it's unlike anything else you'll find in football.

Through their first 30 offensive possessions this year, the Patriots have rolled out nine offensive-line combinations (not including kneels to end halves), and they deployed a 10th unique combination on goal-line packages against the Jaguars that resulted in three LeGarrette Blount rushing touchdowns. Against the Steelers in Week 1, they didn't begin consecutive possessions with the same offensive-line combination until the sixth and seventh possessions.

The idea to rotate linemen over the course of the game may not sound particularly groundbreaking. But compared with how the rest of the NFL approaches the offensive line, this is quite unusual.

In general, teams will take their best combination of linemen and use them all game long, rather than switching them out as New England is. The reasoning behind this traditional approach to line play isn't all that hard to fathom: Teams want to keep their best players in for as many possessions as possible, and switching it up will mess with communication and chemistry.

But Belichick has changed that, at least so far this season. As the Herald noted, this rotation is inevitably causing opposing defenses to prepare not just for different packages, but also for different combinations of linemen within one individual package and within different packages.

Dave DeGuglielmo, New England's offensive-line coach, told the Herald there were specific strategic reasons to explain the frequency of these rotations — though don't expect him to elaborate.

Chad posted an article about this in a thread in the Colts section.

[amfootball]

Chad posted an article about this in a thread in the Colts section.

Oh, thanks for letting me know.  I was not able to find his thread. Do you mind posting a link to it?

[NFLfan]

Oh, thanks for letting me know. I was not able to find his thread. Do you mind posting a link to it?

It was in the O-Line Epidemic thread. He posted an article on how the Pats are using their offensive linemen. He posted only the link; there were no quotes from the article.

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40929-the-nfls-o-line-epidemic/#entry1187997

Chad's post is in the middle of the thread.

[amfootball]

It was in the O-Line Epidemic thread. He posted an article on how the Pats are using their offensive linemen. He posted only the link; there were no quotes from the article.

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40929-the-nfls-o-line-epidemic/#entry1187997

Chad's post is in the middle of the thread.

Ah, thanks. I will take a read through. So much discussion these days on Olines ....

[2006Coltsbestever]

Belichick IMO is the best Coach of all-time. I guess one could argue that maybe Lombardi, Shula, Knoll, Landry, Walsh is but Belichick has won 4 SB's in the Free Agency era. Of course he has Tom but when Tom went out, the guy went 11-5 with freakin Matt Cassel.

[Dustin]

The only reason the oline looks good is because Brady is getting the ball out in under 2 seconds. 

[amfootball]

The only reason the oline looks good is because Brady is getting the ball out in under 2 seconds. 

Yes and no. Brady has been going down field as well too and holding the ball and the Oline has been good on short yardage as well. But less face it with three rooks in the interior, it is up to Brady to make hay although the three of them are playing well especially the undrafted center.

[NFLfan]

Ah, thanks. I will take a read through. So much discussion these days on Olines ....

Yes there is. I found it noteworthy that the Bengals selected offensive linemen in the first and second rounds this year despite having one of the top O-lines in the NFL. They also re-signed Boling and Whitworth. I think they are building their team the right way.

[aaron11]

 I think they are building their team the right way.

they probably are, but keep in mind they have spent recent early picks on skill position players too.

 

since the dalton draft, they have taken a tight end, a wide reciever, two corner backs and two running backs in the first two rounds.

 

now they are focusing on the line

[buffalo34]

But Patriots fans keep telling us that their OL isn't that good (despite Brady usually getting 5 hours to throw the ball on any given play)

[HiltonTD]

But Patriots fans keep telling us that their OL isn't that good (despite Brady usually getting 5 hours to throw the ball on any given play)

 

Thats not really a fair statement.. Brady has the fastest release from snap to throw in the NFL right now.. so hes certainly not sitting in the pocket for 5 hours on every play.. the ball comes out in under 2 seconds on average

[buffalo34]

Thats not really a fair statement.. Brady has the fastest release from snap to throw in the NFL right now.. so hes certainly not sitting in the pocket for 5 hours on every play.. the ball comes out in under 2 seconds on average

 

Even when he doesn't get rid of it quickly he can sit back there like a statue and never worry about the rush getting to him. It's cringe-worthy.

[amfootball]

Even when he doesn't get rid of it quickly he can sit back there like a statue and never worry about the rush getting to him. It's cringe-worthy.

He has had much better protection this year than last year at the start.  I am very pleased with how well the young guys have performed with the added complexity of the rotation. I have no issues crediting Brady's Oline where it is due as if this team is going to repeat it will be the key unit in the drive to five just as it was last year when they got their fourth.

[Cynjin]

Belichick handles all of his players differently than other coaches. It is the biggest reason why he is the best coach in the NFL.

[-JJ-]

I'm guessing he was forced to go to this rotation thing due to rookie, injured, and back up players. The norm in football is an experienced line that gels as a unit.

[chad72]

I'm guessing he was forced to go to this rotation thing due to rookie, injured, and back up players. The norm in football is an experienced line that gels as a unit.

 

It will start mattering when you play guys on the other side like the Ravens who say "heck with it, you still can play only 11 players, I will line up against you and beat the drum out of you" . If the other team has defensive depth, you have to worry about the learning curve of those multiple OL being rotated in and out. As the season goes on, when you have stunts and blitzes, will those OL be able to communicate the same way and have the same learning curves? Practicality says, it is going to be hard to sustain. It goes both ways when you play an elite team.

[-JJ-]

It will start mattering when you play guys on the other side like the Ravens who say "heck with it, you still can play only 11 players, I will line up against you and beat the drum out of you" . If the other team has defensive depth, you have to worry about the learning curve of those multiple OL being rotated in and out. As the season goes on, when you have stunts and blitzes, will those OL be able to communicate the same way and have the same learning curves? Practicality says, it is going to be hard to sustain. It goes both ways when you play an elite team.

One would think it hard to sustain unless the players happen to be that versatile which of course is a BB trademark.

 

I was looking at pats depth roster and it showed a couple guys switching positions on the oline.

[The Fish]

Brady and that scheme make up the difference of whatever the shortcomings are O-line might have. 

[ThaCaliColt]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-made-simple-change-155902845.html

 

With all the talk about Oline's this year, I found this interesting story on how the Pats are handling their offensive line this year in a unique manner. Here are some snippets:

 

Beyond Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski, and Julian Edelman — not to mention Bill Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels at the helm — there is a less obvious reason to explain New England's fast offensive start: the fact they are revolutionizing their offensive line.

 

The Boston Herald took a deep dive on the frequency with which New England has been rotating its offensive line, and it's unlike anything else you'll find in football.

 

Through their first 30 offensive possessions this year, the Patriots have rolled out nine offensive-line combinations (not including kneels to end halves), and they deployed a 10th unique combination on goal-line packages against the Jaguars that resulted in three LeGarrette Blount rushing touchdowns. Against the Steelers in Week 1, they didn't begin consecutive possessions with the same offensive-line combination until the sixth and seventh possessions.

 

The idea to rotate linemen over the course of the game may not sound particularly groundbreaking. But compared with how the rest of the NFL approaches the offensive line, this is quite unusual.

 

In general, teams will take their best combination of linemen and use them all game long, rather than switching them out as New England is. The reasoning behind this traditional approach to line play isn't all that hard to fathom: Teams want to keep their best players in for as many possessions as possible, and switching it up will mess with communication and chemistry.

 

But Belichick has changed that, at least so far this season. As the Herald noted, this rotation is inevitably causing opposing defenses to prepare not just for different packages, but also for different combinations of linemen within one individual package and within different packages.

 

Dave DeGuglielmo, New England's offensive-line coach, told the Herald there were specific strategic reasons to explain the frequency of these rotations — though don't expect him to elaborate.

In your opinion, do you think the Colts issues on the offensive line are more a result of coaching or a lack of talent? I mean, there is an obvious difference in the preparedness between our teams. The Colts have committed countless, uncharacteristic penalties this season. The personnel the Patriots are utlilizing and rotating are clearly better adjusted and more prepared in each scenario. It bothers me to no end the struggles the Colts have had on the OL. Grigson has tried hard as well. Many of his signings just have not panned out. In both instances, our teams are relying on several rookies to play their respective positions.

[Superman]

Brady and that scheme make up the difference of whatever the shortcomings are O-line might have. 

 

They benched a bum last season and put in a fourth round rookie center who is average, at best. It's not personnel, it's scheme and offensive principles (namely, the quicker the QB gets rid of the ball, the less pressure he gets). Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 80.6% of his attempts, which is easily league best, and his average time to attempt is 2.04 seconds, also league best.

 

Luck is about league average at time to attempt, 2.41 seconds on average. He gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 54.6% of the time, which is a little below league average. But when he does get rid of it in 2.5 seconds or less this season, he has taken zero sacks. 

 

I'll mention that Luck is better than Brady going downfield, by quite a bit. That explains why Brady is more of a dink and dunk QB, and I don't want Luck to go quick 80% of the time. But if you're struggling to protect, you should be adapting your passing attack to make up for it.

 

Anyway, I only mean to illustrate why Brady's line gives us so little pressure compared to us and other teams. Basically, it's because he gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB. 

[amfootball]

In your opinion, do you think the Colts issues on the offensive line are more a result of coaching or a lack of talent? I mean, there is an obvious difference in the preparedness between our teams. The Colts have committed countless, uncharacteristic penalties this season. The personnel the Patriots are utlilizing and rotating are clearly better adjusted and more prepared in each scenario. It bothers me to no end the struggles the Colts have had on the OL. Grigson has tried hard as well. Many of his signings just have not panned out. In both instances, our teams are relying on several rookies to play their respective positions.

The talent is not good but it is more Luck and the scheme IMO. Pep has to design some plays to get the ball out of his hands quicker and Luck also has to start looking for the short pass more. So really I think it is a combo.

 

I read an article recently that said the Colts FO wants Luck to play differently and stop looking for the home run and take the check downs so that is probably coming when he takes the field again. I also saw that your TE was happy with the way that Hasselbeck distributed the ball to all the receivers vs Jags. I think Luck has a tendency to lock into his receivers and has certain guys that are his comfort zone like TY and before that it was Reggie. So I don't think it is just one thing but a combo of things. But for sure the talent is just not good up front so you have to compensate with your play design and QB play.

[amfootball]

They benched a bum last season and put in a fourth round rookie center who is average, at best. It's not personnel, it's scheme and offensive principles (namely, the quicker the QB gets rid of the ball, the less pressure he gets). Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 80.6% of his attempts, which is easily league best, and his average time to attempt is 2.04 seconds, also league best.

 

Luck is about league average at time to attempt, 2.41 seconds on average. He gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 54.6% of the time, which is a little below league average. But when he does get rid of it in 2.5 seconds or less this season, he has taken zero sacks. 

 

I'll mention that Luck is better than Brady going downfield, by quite a bit. That explains why Brady is more of a dink and dunk QB, and I don't want Luck to go quick 80% of the time. But if you're struggling to protect, you should be adapting your passing attack to make up for it.

 

Anyway, I only mean to illustrate why Brady's line gives us so little pressure compared to us and other teams. Basically, it's because he gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB. 

Brady has been getting rid of it fast this year but he has not been dink dunk. He is 8th in yards per attempt at 8.36 this season. I can't seem to find his attempts of 20+ yards or more for some reason but he has taken a lot deep throws this season as well. Really the line has been MUCH better than expected with the three rookies performing well and the rotation. I will credit Brady given his quick release this season but the line has been great when he has held it to go deeper which has been more often than usual for him.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Very interesting article! 

[CS Coltsfan]

I agree that scheme is important, but I believe across the board the Patriots have one of the best coached team in all phases of the game in Football. Their Oline  Coach Dave DeGugliemo is one of the best in the league look what they did the last two years with getting rid of key players and in just a few weeks have another solid Oline...

 

we saw Sunday how much better Hassleback looked with a different scheme and quicker release, but we still have issues with our Oline coach, OC and IMO GM ( former Olineman and we have what we have...)

 

Hats off to Bellichick and the Patriots Coaching...

[Superman]

Brady has been getting rid of it fast this year but he has not been dink dunk. He is 8th in yards per attempt at 8.36 this season. I can't seem to find his attempts of 20+ yards or more for some reason but he has taken a lot deep throws this season as well. Really the line has been MUCH better than expected with the three rookies performing well and the rotation. I will credit Brady given his quick release this season but the line has been great when he has held it to go deeper which has been more often than usual for him.

 

Yards/attempt doesn't adjust for yards after catch, and is a bad stat to use to determine whether a QB is throwing short and underneath. Brady attempts a smaller percentage of passes 20+ yards down the field than all but six other starting QBs. He has 12 attempts of 20+ yards, which isn't a lot through three games; Matt Hasselbeck has played one game, and has 9 attempts of 20+ yards. Almost 49% of the Pats receiving yards come after the catch, and 54% of Brady's yards are in the air, which basically means you can cut Brady's yards/attempt in half for these purposes.

 

Those numbers are very similar to Aaron Rodgers' numbers.

 

Understand, this is not a pejorative. I'm not undermining Brady by saying he's more dink and dunk than Andrew Luck. He takes what he can underneath, he avoids pressure and hits, and he makes life easier on his OL. Then, when they do take some time to throw, they've already undermined the pass rush after 25 quick releases where they had no shot at getting him. It's good QBing, and good offensive scheme. 

[amfootball]

Yards/attempt doesn't adjust for yards after catch, and is a bad stat to use to determine whether a QB is throwing short and underneath. Brady attempts a smaller percentage of passes 20+ yards down the field than all but six other starting QBs. He has 12 attempts of 20+ yards, which isn't a lot through three games; Matt Hasselbeck has played one game, and has 9 attempts of 20+ yards. Almost 49% of the Pats receiving yards come after the catch, and 54% of Brady's yards are in the air, which basically means you can cut Brady's yards/attempt in half for these purposes.

 

Those numbers are very similar to Aaron Rodgers' numbers.

 

Understand, this is not a pejorative. I'm not undermining Brady by saying he's more dink and dunk than Andrew Luck. He takes what he can underneath, he avoids pressure and hits, and he makes life easier on his OL. Then, when they do take some time to throw, they've already undermined the pass rush after 25 quick releases where they had no shot at getting him. It's good QBing, and good offensive scheme. 

12 attempts of 20+ yards through 3 games is a lot for Brady.

 

I know what you are saying. My main point was that I don't think dink and dunk is a good description of the Pats offense this year as although Brady is throwing short to intermediate routes, the offense is explosive with the YAC and the chunk yardage gained. When I think of dink and dunk, I more think of the Pats offense in 2001 or even the Broncos offense this year where many throws are at the LOS - lots of horizontal stuff or short slants to pick up 4 or 5 yards.  But overall, this Pats offense has a dynamic to it that is very different than previous years. I think the addition of Chandler and Lewis has really opened things up as well as Amendola being solid like he was toward the end of last season. It seems Brady has more options than ever. This was crystallized for me vs Jax when the Pats had 6 Tds and not one was scored by Gronk.

[ViriLudant]

Brian Stork is average? He was the best center his final year of college and had a great rookie season.

The Patriots have had worse centers in the same system .

[ThaCaliColt]

The talent is not good but it is more Luck and the scheme IMO. Pep has to design some plays to get the ball out of his hands quicker and Luck also has to start looking for the short pass more. So really I think it is a combo.

 

I read an article recently that said the Colts FO wants Luck to play differently and stop looking for the home run and take the check downs so that is probably coming when he takes the field again. I also saw that your TE was happy with the way that Hasselbeck distributed the ball to all the receivers vs Jags. I think Luck has a tendency to lock into his receivers and has certain guys that are his comfort zone like TY and before that it was Reggie. So I don't think it is just one thing but a combo of things. But for sure the talent is just not good up front so you have to compensate with your play design and QB play.

I think Mewhort is a quality player though, as is Castonzo. Thornton had some nice run blocking last Sunday. To me, the draft is the only way to address this problem long term. With the shortage of quality o lineman, no team is going to give up a great player in his prime.

[Superman]

Brian Stork is average? He was the best center his final year of college and had a great rookie season.

The Patriots have had worse centers in the same system .

 

Best center in college based on what metric?

 

He was mostly considered a late round prospect, technically sound, but little upside. He was the fourth center drafted. He was 10th in pass blocking efficiency last season (good for a rookie, otherwise average). Nothing special in the run game.

 

He's average.

[ColtRider]

They benched a bum last season and put in a fourth round rookie center who is average, at best. It's not personnel, it's scheme and offensive principles (namely, the quicker the QB gets rid of the ball, the less pressure he gets). Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 80.6% of his attempts, which is easily league best, and his average time to attempt is 2.04 seconds, also league best.

Luck is about league average at time to attempt, 2.41 seconds on average. He gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 54.6% of the time, which is a little below league average. But when he does get rid of it in 2.5 seconds or less this season, he has taken zero sacks.

I'll mention that Luck is better than Brady going downfield, by quite a bit. That explains why Brady is more of a dink and dunk QB, and I don't want Luck to go quick 80% of the time. But if you're struggling to protect, you should be adapting your passing attack to make up for it.

Anyway, I only mean to illustrate why Brady's line gives us so little pressure compared to us and other teams. Basically, it's because he gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB.

Took the words right out of my mouth. SCHEME. I've been saying this since the 1st day of my membership. Schematic/Systematic football is exactly what Bill Belichick and the Patriots (along with several others) are/have been all about for some time now. BB just finds a way to cut & hone that skill set every single year. (barring the legal envelop pushing) It pains me to say, but this is what sets him above all the rest, IMO.

Glad you touched on this, again, Superman.

[amfootball]

Took the words right out of my mouth. SCHEME. I've been saying this since the 1st day of my membership. Schematic/Systematic football is exactly what Bill Belichick and the Patriots (along with several others) are/have been all about for some time now. BB just finds a way to cut & hone that skill set every single year. (barring the legal envelop pushing) It pains me to say, but this is what sets him above all the rest, IMO.

Glad you touched on this, again, Superman.

It isn't just scheme though as if it was than every team would just copy it. It is Scouting/Drafting with Scheme. Patriots may be the best at scouting players that they can coach up to play the system/scheme. This is why Superman can look at Stork and say he is average which is probably right but yet for the Pats he was the key piece missing in the Oline last year to help it gel and propel this team to the championship. Now this year with Stork out, they have this undrafted rookie FA center named Andrews who is doing the same thing with two rookie guards on either side of him. Like I said previously on this thread, Brady does his thing and for sure that helps the line but the line has been MUCH better than anyone anticipated going into this season and is a large reason why the Pats are the top scoring offense.

[ColtRider]

It isn't just scheme though as if it was than every team would just copy it. It is Scouting/Drafting with Scheme. Patriots may be the best at scouting players that they can coach up to play the system/scheme. This is why Superman can look at Stork and say he is average which is probably right but yet for the Pats he was the key piece missing in the Oline last year to help it gel and propel this team to the championship. Now this year with Stork out, they have this undrafted rookie FA center named Andrews who is doing the same thing with two rookie guards on either side of him. Like I said previously on this thread, Brady does his thing and for sure that helps the line but the line has been MUCH better than anyone anticipated going into this season and is a large reason why the Pats are the top scoring offense.

Uh, yeah, am. That is exactly what you do with "scheme". Scouting and Drafting. The knowledge and contrite fit that your team leader possesses inside his system/schematic layouts are the very reason New England does so well each year. Brady certainly doesn't hurt that effort as well. They're merged at the hip. When you have that analytical ability to plug every player into a role that serves the entire team and organization to it's best performance every week, it's very difficult to emulate if you're just missing the mark. The Patriots do not have that problem with Bill Belichick and his coaching staff. Masterful evaluation of players and teaching them the "Do Your Job" battle cry is why your organization has been so successful over the years.

[dgambill]

They benched a bum last season and put in a fourth round rookie center who is average, at best. It's not personnel, it's scheme and offensive principles (namely, the quicker the QB gets rid of the ball, the less pressure he gets). Brady gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 80.6% of his attempts, which is easily league best, and his average time to attempt is 2.04 seconds, also league best.

 

Luck is about league average at time to attempt, 2.41 seconds on average. He gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less 54.6% of the time, which is a little below league average. But when he does get rid of it in 2.5 seconds or less this season, he has taken zero sacks.

 

I'll mention that Luck is better than Brady going downfield, by quite a bit. That explains why Brady is more of a dink and dunk QB, and I don't want Luck to go quick 80% of the time. But if you're struggling to protect, you should be adapting your passing attack to make up for it.

 

Anyway, I only mean to illustrate why Brady's line gives us so little pressure compared to us and other teams. Basically, it's because he gets rid of the ball faster than any other QB. 

I agree with a lot of what you said there Supes. I think there is a little more to the Patriots success than that but it definately plays a huge role. One thing I wanted to point out though is that I'm not sure what your stat means in the highlighted. Of course when a qb gets rid of the football no matter how long he holds it...it is never a sack....so I'm not sure what that statistic really means. Luck has zero sacks when he gets rid of the ball in 8 seconds as well. He only gets a sack if he fails to get rid of the ball. Maybe what your saying is that he has never taken a sack in less than 2.5 seconds.  I do think there is a huge correlation between holding onto the ball and sacks but there can also be that a qb has to hold onto a ball to avoid a pass rush and thus his stats on avg release etc can be sckewed. Its hard to measure but how long and how often does the qb have a clean pocket is basically what we are getting at. I believe if we can give him a clean pocket for 2.5 seconds before it STARTS to break down we wouldn't see nearly the sacks. Too often its deteriating so fast that he has to start moving around to give himself time and room to throw before or as soon as he reaches his drop so he is hanging onto the ball longer to find that room or pocket to throw. I do think we could speed up his progressions and run some routes designed to get the ball out quick and let our burners use their quickness for run after the catch yards.....that said TY and company haven't done a very good job in creating separation at the line....they usually get it at the top end of their routes when their speed has kicked in. They need to be stronger and fight better to get open earlier in their routes and help Luck out a lot more as well as Pep running quicker routes.

 

One thing I thought about is that Frank ran a lot of read option etc in San Francisco and was pretty successful running out of the shotgun and perhaps we could run a bit more out of that formation to give Luck more time to survey the field and help in the pocket. I still think Gore could run just as effectively (behind our OL that isn't saying much) since he is comfortable running out of that set. Its just a thought...how Denver bought Peyton more time. It could be just a comfort thing if anything but something has to change to help Andrew be more effective this year. We can't continue down this course with him or were going to be on the outside looking in come SB Sunday.

[BrentMc11]

They also reinstated/re-signed the guy who is a master deflator!!!!(New word in the dictionary)  Had been seen only behind closed doors.

 

[ColtRider]

I agree with a lot of what you said there Supes. I think there is a little more to the Patriots success than that but it definately plays a huge role. One thing I wanted to point out though is that I'm not sure what your stat means in the highlighted. Of course when a qb gets rid of the football no matter how long he holds it...it is never a sack....so I'm not sure what that statistic really means. Luck has zero sacks when he gets rid of the ball in 8 seconds as well. He only gets a sack if he fails to get rid of the ball. Maybe what your saying is that he has never taken a sack in less than 2.5 seconds.  I do think there is a huge correlation between holding onto the ball and sacks but there can also be that a qb has to hold onto a ball to avoid a pass rush and thus his stats on avg release etc can be sckewed. Its hard to measure but how long and how often does the qb have a clean pocket is basically what we are getting at. I believe if we can give him a clean pocket for 2.5 seconds before it STARTS to break down we wouldn't see nearly the sacks. Too often its deteriating so fast that he has to start moving around to give himself time and room to throw before or as soon as he reaches his drop so he is hanging onto the ball longer to find that room or pocket to throw. I do think we could speed up his progressions and run some routes designed to get the ball out quick and let our burners use their quickness for run after the catch yards.....that said TY and company haven't done a very good job in creating separation at the line....they usually get it at the top end of their routes when their speed has kicked in. They need to be stronger and fight better to get open earlier in their routes and help Luck out a lot more as well as Pep running quicker routes.

 

One thing I thought about is that Frank ran a lot of read option etc in San Francisco and was pretty successful running out of the shotgun and perhaps we could run a bit more out of that formation to give Luck more time to survey the field and help in the pocket. I still think Gore could run just as effectively (behind our OL that isn't saying much) since he is comfortable running out of that set. Its just a thought...how Denver bought Peyton more time. It could be just a comfort thing if anything but something has to change to help Andrew be more effective this year. We can't continue down this course with him or were going to be on the outside looking in come SB Sunday.

I agree with a lot of your assessment here with Luck. However, Superman points that out as well. Andrew's timing is Andrew's timing. Great QBs usually fall into what I call, "reckoning their abilities". The adjustments and corrections can standout by experience. Once Andrew figures out (himself & and/or coaches) what the "fine line of timing" is concerning his play he'll put that into a lot more use. The guy is a potentially great QB. IMO, he's not that far off from igniting his full capabilities. Once that happens (and it will), Luck will be one of the most dangerous QBs ever to play the game. He is the one who completely exonerates and captures his own desire to not falter.

[dgambill]

I agree with a lot of your assessment here with Luck. However, Superman points that out as well. Andrew's timing is Andrew's timing. Great QBs usually fall into what I call, "reckoning their abilities". The adjustments and corrections can standout by experience. Once Andrew figures out (himself & and/or coaches) what the "fine line of timing" is concerning his play he'll put that into a lot more use. The guy is a potentially great QB. IMO, he's not that far off from igniting his full capabilities. Once that happens (and it will), Luck will be one of the most dangerous QBs ever to play the game. He is the one who completely exonerates and captures his own desire to not falter.

One thing people forget is Andrew has always thrown ints. He did in college and he does now. He has never been that Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers qb. He is a lot closer to Ben/Brett than the other. He had a good year a couple years ago before the playoffs started but on avg Andrew takes chances...holds on to the ball and tries to make plays. The common theme is he did it in Peps offense at Stanford and continues to do it now. Perhaps he needs a new offense to shake up his timing? Just thinking out loud...but at this point if Andrew isn't running this offense effeciently after playing for Pep for like 7 years maybe we need to get him working with some new people to help him take that next step. We all know change is difficult and hard but sometimes it brings out things in you that you didn't know you could do. I'm not trying to hate on our coaches because Andrew shares a lot of blame for his play but I'm just not sold we could make adjustments and game plans necessary to win it all...and now I'm not even sure this offense is expanding or growing or getting better...and to me thats a problem. To get Andrew to the point where he can get the ball out fast...anticipate the defense and blitzes better etc we may need to bring in some fresh blood.

[ColtRider]

One thing people forget is Andrew has always thrown ints. He did in college and he does now. He has never been that Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers qb. He is a lot closer to Ben/Brett than the other. He had a good year a couple years ago before the playoffs started but on avg Andrew takes chances...holds on to the ball and tries to make plays. The common theme is he did it in Peps offense at Stanford and continues to do it now. Perhaps he needs a new offense to shake up his timing? Just thinking out loud...but at this point if Andrew isn't running this offense effeciently after playing for Pep for like 7 years maybe we need to get him working with some new people to help him take that next step. We all know change is difficult and hard but sometimes it brings out things in you that you didn't know you could do. I'm not trying to hate on our coaches because Andrew shares a lot of blame for his play but I'm just not sold we could make adjustments and game plans necessary to win it all...and now I'm not even sure this offense is expanding or growing or getting better...and to me thats a problem. To get Andrew to the point where he can get the ball out fast...anticipate the defense and blitzes better etc we may need to bring in some fresh blood.

That is exactly correct, IMO. Sometimes it takes QBs of Luck's caliber a little longer to recognize the full potential of what they're really capable of accomplishing. I've always subscribed to the mentality of the "5 year window" concerning this. He's approaching that. Timing involves many aspects of the NFL QB status, including reading of defenses, quick release of the football, check-offs, throwing away, etc. etc. and knowing the difference between them all in any given situation. O-lines certainly contribute to a QB's track of how fast. Luck truly has been under duress at times and that's usually when he gets into a little trouble by forcing. That's the natural instinct of trying to make a play. Once he understands he has plenty of other options besides that, he's going to give the entire league migraines for years to come. I just hope and pray he bounces back from this injury and is never plagued by it again.

[dgambill]

That is exactly correct, IMO. Sometimes it takes QBs of Luck's caliber a little longer to recognize the full potential of what they're really capable of accomplishing. I've always subscribed to the mentality of the "5 year window" concerning this. He's approaching that. Timing involves many aspects of the NFL QB status, including reading of defenses, quick release of the football, check-offs, throwing away, etc. etc. and knowing the difference between them all in any given situation. O-lines certainly contribute to a QB's track of how fast. Luck truly has been under duress at times and that's usually when he gets into a little trouble by forcing. That's the natural instinct of trying to make a play. Once he understands he has plenty of other options besides that, he's going to give the entire league migraines for years to come. I just hope and pray he bounces back from this injury and is never plagued by it again.

I think the injury is a "GOOD" thing. It helps him wake up to the fact that he can get hurt out here....there is a price to pay for hanging onto the ball and this team can't afford to be without him. He can learn from that and sometimes the cold hard facts of the NFL have to wake you up to the fact that what got you through last year doesn't mean you can depend on that this year. You can't play your whole career one way. Sometimes its better to learn earlier rather than later to not hang onto the ball so long...to not take all the hits. Andrew is a big kid but his body can only take so much and as he ages. Best to learn this now to save him hits later. God forbid he take a hit like Peyton did against the Redskins and we see Andrew struggle later in his career with such reprocussions. I do agree though...there are some minor nuances to the game that once Andrew learns and masters...he can be one of the greats....it will take time and a lot of work...but he has the brain and a ton of ability to master them.

[ColtRider]

I think the injury is a "GOOD" thing. It helps him wake up to the fact that he can get hurt out here....there is a price to pay for hanging onto the ball and this team can't afford to be without him. He can learn from that and sometimes the cold hard facts of the NFL have to wake you up to the fact that what got you through last year doesn't mean you can depend on that this year. You can't play your whole career one way. Sometimes its better to learn earlier rather than later to not hang onto the ball so long...to not take all the hits. Andrew is a big kid but his body can only take so much and as he ages. Best to learn this now to save him hits later. God forbid he take a hit like Peyton did against the Redskins and we see Andrew struggle later in his career with such reprocussions. I do agree though...there are some minor nuances to the game that once Andrew learns and masters...he can be one of the greats....it will take time and a lot of work...but he has the brain and a ton of ability to master them.

Copy that, dgambill. Man, do I ever copy that.