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Jason Coles "sources" say the Colts want Luck to change his style of play


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https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/650029088791396352

Link to story, don't forget the salt.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2574933-insider-buzz-concerns-over-lucks-health-leading-to-major-changes-on-offense

Colts Want Luck to Make 'Major Changes' to Protect Health by throwing faster(holds the ball too long), running so much, being aggressive with his passes and tackling after he's been intercepted.

They want him to throw faster, cause they can't protect him. Ok, what's next. They don't want him to tackle after he throws an interception because the rest of the team can't. Ok, what's next. Not running with the ball because his line can't create a pocket. Ok, luck is definitely the problem. Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt.

I wouldn't be surprised if luck doesn't re-sign after 4 years of a crap O-line and not offering him a contract sooner.

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They want him to throw faster, cause they can't protect him. Ok, what's next. They don't want him to tackle after he throws an interception because the rest of the team can't. Ok, what's next. Not running with the ball because his line can't create a pocket. Ok, luck is definitely the problem. Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt.

I wouldn't be surprised if luck doesn't re-sign after 4 years of a crap O-line and not offering him a contract sooner.

I actually don't mind when Luck runs. He usually gets a pretty good gain and he slides normally as well. Most of his serious contact is coming inside the pocket. I would rather him run for about 5 yards than get nailed in the pocket trying to make a risky pass under pressure.

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They want him to throw faster, cause they can't protect him. Ok, what's next. They don't want him to tackle after he throws an interception because the rest of the team can't. Ok, what's next. Not running with the ball because his line can't create a pocket. Ok, luck is definitely the problem. Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt.

I wouldn't be surprised if luck doesn't re-sign after 4 years of a crap O-line and not offering him a contract sooner.

Talk about extreme views here, you sound like you think Luck can do no wrong quite honestly...when in fact he has done ALOT wrong

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Inthink Pep's playcalling can help Andrew best.

I'd love to see that dink and dunk NE style passing.

Easy receptions and quick 2 step drops. Let our playmakers make yards after catch and keep Andrew upright and on the firld. Also eill take immense pressure off the OL.

We certainly have the weapons for screens, short passes, etc. possibly the best in the league. Luck just doesn't have the time in pocket for longer developing pass plays.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Also, we have a great punter and an "adequate" defense that should improve.

We need to play smarter but it's not all on Luck. I seem to remember This exact same conversation sbout Peyton. When a QB knows he has to pull a rabbit out of his butt he tries but it doesn't always work. Better playcalling, better overalll SITUATIONAL coaching, and better decisions by Andrew collectively will go a long way.

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Talk about extreme views here, you sound like you think Luck can do no wrong quite honestly...when in fact he has done ALOT wrong

Hardly extreme, they are asking him to change things to protect himself when they know they can't do it. I know luck has done wrong, I'm not saying he hasn't. I was mostly being sarcastic, but there's tons of truth to what I said too.

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Talk about extreme views here, you sound like you think Luck can do no wrong quite honestly...when in fact he has done ALOT wrong

I think what's being missed here by a lot of people is that no one is using this to excuse the poor o-line play.  However, despite that fact, there are things Luck can do with his game to make him better and reduce the number of hits he takes even with the poor line.  Luck does have a tendency to hold the ball way too long even if had a good o-line.  Then from there when he scrambles he does tend to dive and until this year would rarely slide.  As for tackling after INTs that's what it is, he's never going to stop doing that but you can work with him on what you want him to do in those situations.  I also think he needs to learn a sack or a throw away isn't the worst thing that can happen on a play.  That's when he tends to get in trouble, when he's beat and he just wont go down or just throw the ball away and he either ends up taking a nasty hit, fumbling, or throwing a pick. 

 

It reminds me a lot of Manning before Dungy got here.  He used to try to do too much and wouldn't just give up on a bad play and it would lead to a mistake.  Dungy taught him that punting wasn't the worst thing in the world.  So I think that's part of what they are trying to teach Luck here, these things aren't just for his health it's to reduce mistakes. On the second INT in the Titans game Luck could have easily just thrown the ball away but forced it rather than throwing the ball out of bounds and the result was an INT. So besides just health for the betterment of the team I think Luck needs to learn when to give up on a play.

 

As for the notion of Luck can do no wrong some have I think that's two fold.  I think people have made such an argument about Luck being the only player on the roster they don't want to see him ripped.  I also think people are so mad about the line they view this as being a copout to not blame the line.  Like I said earlier in this thread they can work on Luck AND address the o-line.  It's not one or the other.  I will say this they can't do too much about the o-line right now during the season but they can work with Luck. 

 

I kinda view people being upset about the Colts wanting Luck to change somethings kinda like when people got mad about Polian saying that McAfee needed to work on his directional kicking during the 2011 season.  People viewed McAfee as the last Colt who should be criticized during that season regardless of it what Polian said was right or not.  McAfee did work on that and has become the best punter in the game.  That's the difference between football people in fans.  Fans see a player they like who has played well and that's good enough he shouldn't be criticized.  Football people see a good player who can still get better and become one of the best in the game if they work on a few things. 

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He kept the guy from scoring though which was a big play which allowed us to ultimately be in position to come back and eventually win that game.  Tennessee did not score a touchdown on the ensuing drive after Luck somehow caused that tackle while being run over.  Luck is a football player.  Can't take that out of him.  It's who he is.  

 

I love that about him just like everyone else. I've seen the Stanford/USC game where the receiver fumbles and Luck nails the defender who picked it up. He said a few weeks ago that he thinks it's part of his job to make sure that if he throws a pick he tries to keep the guy from scoring, and I mostly agree. But he still has to be smart.

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I love that about him just like everyone else. I've seen the Stanford/USC game where the receiver fumbles and Luck nails the defender who picked it up. He said a few weeks ago that he thinks it's part of his job to make sure that if he throws a pick he tries to keep the guy from scoring, and I mostly agree. But he still has to be smart.

Cutler has hurt himself more than once trying to make tackles on his picks. I think it is a good idea to have Luck stay clear in general.

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I always thought we were going to have a "pick your poison" style offense.  We would be able to do whatever style is necessary depending on the defense we play that week.  Apparently, we are not able to do that......at all.  We can't even find success with one style of offense. 

 

Idk, I think we have too many first timers on staff.  First time head coach, first time GM, first time NFL OC, young QB.....it's just not enough experience apparently.

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They want him to throw faster, cause they can't protect him. Ok, what's next. They don't want him to tackle after he throws an interception because the rest of the team can't. Ok, what's next. Not running with the ball because his line can't create a pocket. Ok, luck is definitely the problem. Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt.

I wouldn't be surprised if luck doesn't re-sign after 4 years of a crap O-line and not offering him a contract sooner.

 

"Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt."

 

This made me LOL - great analogy

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Despite the bad o-line Luck does hold on the ball far too long. So does Big Ben and it's why he's missed so many games. Rodgers and Brady are the complete opposite.

Sometimes Rodgers hold on to the ball too long as well, I watched the 49ers game today and he did just that.  That is very rare as his line usually allows him to run a mile before having to throw the ball.

It all depends on the line - a QB is only as good as the line...

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So many people want to blame everyone else for Luck's problems other than Luck.

 

I think Luck is has a lot of great tools as a QB but the fact is he is not playing a whole lot different now than he did his rookie season.  He makes the same kind of mistakes in the same kind of situations over and over again.  He came into the league as a great talent what I have not seen is him progressing to an elite QB.

 

Additionally, according to Football Outsiders (a site I trust a lot more than PFF) the Colts Oline is ranked 4th in run blocking and 15th in pass blocking.  Now these numbers are not the end all be all but it matches what I've been seeing.

 

The Colts have a running game this year with Gore and he is under utilized.  They Colts have three very good TEs that have been under utilized, the Colts have an elite WR, and aging elite WR and an young up and comer and Luck hesitates in throwing them the ball.

 

I'm going to make a prediction, if Luck does not play this weekend, I think the Colts will win and win big putting up 30+ points.

Well, PFF ranks them 18th pass blocking, 16th run blocking (after Jaguars game). Pretty close.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5/

For example (pass blocking):

GB - 14th, SD - 23rd, DEN - 22nd, ARZ - 15th...

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Well, PFF ranks them 18th pass blocking, 16th run blocking (after Jaguars game). Pretty close.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5/

For example (pass blocking):

GB - 14th, SD - 23rd, DEN - 22nd, ARZ - 15th...

I have not looked at FO since the Jags game but I doubt if they dropped 10+ places.

 

The thing I like about FO is in their grading system their line stats take into consideration things like, if the QB held the ball too long, pressures, hits, they count it as a negative for the line, if the RB is hit in the backfield (if it was a missed block by the olineman and then breaks a long run

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Sometimes Rodgers hold on to the ball too long as well, I watched the 49ers game today and he did just that.  That is very rare as his line

usually allows him to run a mile before having to throw the ball.

It all depends on the line - a QB is only as good as the line...

Rodgers often runs sideways along the LOS away from pressure to bide more time for his receivers to get open...and throws on the run. When the pocket collapses early, he doesn't tend to stand at the same drop-backed spot waiting for his receivers to get open.

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Well, PFF ranks them 18th pass blocking, 16th run blocking (after Jaguars game). Pretty close.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5/

For example (pass blocking):

GB - 14th, SD - 23rd, DEN - 22nd, ARZ - 15th...

 

PFF grades individual players and individual plays. Their OL unit rankings are based on results (sacks, hits, hurries), not performance. While all of this is useful, it doesn't mean that one offensive line is better than another. In broad, general terms, PFF is far more useful for individual stuff, not team/unit stuff.

 

For instance, PFF's grades had the Colts as the 17th ranked offense last season, even though we led the league in passing TDs, were near the top in yards, third down percentage, etc. That's because one poorly ranked player drags down the overall grade. It's just a collection of individual grades.

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Sometimes Rodgers hold on to the ball too long as well, I watched the 49ers game today and he did just that.  That is very rare as his line usually allows him to run a mile before having to throw the ball.

It all depends on the line - a QB is only as good as the line...

 

Rodgers often holds on to the ball too long. We talk a lot about how he doesn't throw picks, but he's sort of gun shy, and would rather take a sack than throw into tight coverage. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you do wonder how many plays he's leaving out there. I'd rather have his elite efficiency (seriously, the most efficient QB of all time, over the last four years), and he obviously makes tons of plays.

 

To that last point, there was one play against the Niners where he scrambled, ran, dodged pressure, and then fired a dart to the back of the end zone for a TD. And he was never hit. I'll take that kind of extending the play and playmaking all day long. What Luck has been doing more of lately is standing in the pocket and just letting the pressure come to him, then throwing while he's being dragged down. A big part of that is because we don't move him enough. 

 

Anyways, just saying that there's a difference between the way Luck and Rodgers hold on to the ball too long. This year, they've both been under a similar amount of pressure, and Rodgers has been sacked a greater percentage of his dropbacks, but he's also been more accurate when under pressure. No matter how good your line is, your passing game has to beat pressure, beat blitzes, and eventually, you'll see less of them.

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I always thought we were going to have a "pick your poison" style offense.  We would be able to do whatever style is necessary depending on the defense we play that week.  Apparently, we are not able to do that......at all.  We can't even find success with one style of offense. 

 

Idk, I think we have too many first timers on staff.  First time head coach, first time GM, first time NFL OC, young QB.....it's just not enough experience apparently.

 

That's not it. The offense is playing poorly because the execution sucks and the play calling has been bad. That wasn't the case last year or the year before, so it's not having a bunch of first timers. This is the same crew that scored a bunch of TDs last year, except we have a better running game. Luck has to play better, and the play calling has to get better. 

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Rodgers often holds on to the ball too long. We talk a lot about how he doesn't throw picks, but he's sort of gun shy, and would rather take a sack than throw into tight coverage. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you do wonder how many plays he's leaving out there. I'd rather have his elite efficiency (seriously, the most efficient QB of all time, over the last four years), and he obviously makes tons of plays.

 

To that last point, there was one play against the Niners where he scrambled, ran, dodged pressure, and then fired a dart to the back of the end zone for a TD. And he was never hit. I'll take that kind of extending the play and playmaking all day long. What Luck has been doing more of lately is standing in the pocket and just letting the pressure come to him, then throwing while he's being dragged down. A big part of that is because we don't move him enough. 

 

Anyways, just saying that there's a difference between the way Luck and Rodgers hold on to the ball too long. This year, they've both been under a similar amount of pressure, and Rodgers has been sacked a greater percentage of his dropbacks, but he's also been more accurate when under pressure. No matter how good your line is, your passing game has to beat pressure, beat blitzes, and eventually, you'll see less of them.

the other things I've noticed with Rodgers is if you have him beat on a play he will just go down like Manning would here rather than letting you take a free shot at him. Luck has yet to learn that and takes the shot.
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To that last point, there was one play against the Niners where Rodgers scrambled, ran, dodged pressure, and then fired a dart to the back of the end zone for a TD. And he was never hit. I'll take that kind of extending the play and playmaking all day long. What Luck has been doing more of lately is standing in the pocket and just letting the pressure come to him, then throwing while he's being dragged down. A big part of that is because we don't move him enough.

Yes.

IOW, Luck has been playing like Carson Palmer. Golly, I wonder where he learned that.

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For what it's worth, if the "reports" are true that the Colts want Luck to make those changes, I'm all for them.  At times, he holds onto the ball for too long.  Or he tries too hard to make a play and it ends up hurting the team.  And I'm really not a fan of him going to tackle defensive players after he throws a pick.  Having Luck changes those aspects will only help him and the team

 

Luck has to find the right balance but it's clear that he's in love with throwing the deep ball.

 

He doesn't seem to believe in progressively marching the team downfield so much as hitting them hard with one dagger.

 

I don't know if it's that year with Bruce Arians or maybe it's the fact that we have so much speed at the WR position that he thinks he should be able to hit his receivers over the top more often then not.  But I agree that has to change.  

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Yes.

IOW, Luck has been playing like Carson Palmer. Golly, I wonder where he learned that.

 

Carson Palmer is making plays, though. Luck has the lowest accuracy percentage and the lowest completion percentage when under pressure this season. Palmer is 17th in accuracy, 9th in completion percentage. Last year, Luck was much better against pressure. He's just been off.

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Carson Palmer is making plays, though. Luck has the lowest accuracy percentage and the lowest completion percentage when under pressure this season. Palmer is 17th in accuracy, 9th in completion percentage. Last year, Luck was much better against pressure. He's just been off.

I think Carson Palmer will always do Carson Palmer better than Andrew Luck would do Carson Palmer.

I'd like to see Luck be more like a bigger, stronger, faster, better-armed Joe Montana.....but go for the deep ball more often than Montana did.

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I think Carson Palmer will always do Carson Palmer better than Andrew Luck would do Carson Palmer.

I'd like to see Luck be more like a bigger, stronger, faster, better-armed Joe Montana.....but go for the deep ball more often than Montana did.

 

You just described Matt Ryan.

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"Buzz: Colts Want Luck to Make 'Major Changes' to Protect Health" via @TeamStream http://t.co/hYGRPuBYUe

— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout)

October 2, 2015

Link to story, don't forget the salt. 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2574933-insider-buzz-concerns-over-lucks-health-leading-to-major-changes-on-offense

 

Colts Want Luck to Make 'Major Changes' to Protect Health by throwing faster(holds the ball too long), running so much, being aggressive with his passes and tackling after he's been intercepted.

"ColtStronger" Wants Colts to make changes to protect Luck's health by changing GM's to somebody who is somewhat competent, and will "Build A Monster" lol

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They want him to throw faster, cause they can't protect him. Ok, what's next. They don't want him to tackle after he throws an interception because the rest of the team can't. Ok, what's next. Not running with the ball because his line can't create a pocket. Ok, luck is definitely the problem. Just like macafee is the problem when he has to tackle after a punt.

I wouldn't be surprised if luck doesn't re-sign after 4 years of a crap O-line and not offering him a contract sooner.

 

Hasselbeck played relatively fine behind that "crap o-line," whereas Luck would've very likely thrown AT LEAST one interception in that game. Fact of the matter is, Luck does need to change his game a bit. He holds on to the ball far too long, and seemingly makes a conscious decision to throw to the other team when he can just as easily throw it out of bounds. Those are facts.

 

And to all the people who are complaining about the o-line, I'm pretty sure I can dig up any of your posts from January after the NE debacle. Everyone was unanimous in their complaints A) Fix the D-Line & run defense B) Figure out how to get our receivers open C) Running game. All 3 of those issues were addressed in the draft, and free agency.

 

Now all the sudden, everyone wants to pile on the o-line and demand that Grigson somehow magically puts together an all-pro unit. It doesn't happen like that. It easily took Dallas 5+ years of drafting to get to where they are with that unit in front of Romo, and he STILL manages to get injured every season. And I don't know where you think Luck's gonna go that has a better line, there's basically 4 or 5 teams in the league that have good to great o-lines, and all of those teams are set as far as QBs go for the foreseeable future.

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Hasselbeck played relatively fine behind that "crap o-line," whereas Luck would've very likely thrown AT LEAST one interception in that game. Fact of the matter is, Luck does need to change his game a bit. He holds on to the ball far too long, and seemingly makes a conscious decision to throw to the other team when he can just as easily throw it out of bounds. Those are facts.

 

And to all the people who are complaining about the o-line, I'm pretty sure I can dig up any of your posts from January after the NE debacle. Everyone was unanimous in their complaints A) Fix the D-Line & run defense B) Figure out how to get our receivers open C) Running game. All 3 of those issues were addressed in the draft, and free agency.

 

Now all the sudden, everyone wants to pile on the o-line and demand that Grigson somehow magically puts together an all-pro unit. It doesn't happen like that. It easily took Dallas 5+ years of drafting to get to where they are with that unit in front of Romo, and he STILL manages to get injured every season. And I don't know where you think Luck's gonna go that has a better line, there's basically 4 or 5 teams in the league that have good to great o-lines, and all of those teams are set as far as QBs go for the foreseeable future.

 

The O-line has progressively gotten worse.  If we had the line we did last year, we'd be better off.  This years line is worse and therefore needs fixed.

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The O-line has progressively gotten worse.  If we had the line we did last year, we'd be better off.  This years line is worse and therefore needs fixed.

 

Needs to be fixed? Okay, how? Fact of life right now, we're stuck with this line until the draft, plain and simple. There's no "fix" unfortunately, so the sooner everyone gets used to that, the better.

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The O-line has progressively gotten worse.  If we had the line we did last year, we'd be better off.  This years line is worse and therefore needs fixed.

I thought we did have the same line as last year. Who got released? Now we have Thornton at RG instead of Louis, who played RG last year. Both were on the team last year.

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Hasselbeck played relatively fine behind that "crap o-line," whereas Luck would've very likely thrown AT LEAST one interception in that game. Fact of the matter is, Luck does need to change his game a bit. He holds on to the ball far too long, and seemingly makes a conscious decision to throw to the other team when he can just as easily throw it out of bounds. Those are facts.

And to all the people who are complaining about the o-line, I'm pretty sure I can dig up any of your posts from January after the NE debacle. Everyone was unanimous in their complaints A) Fix the D-Line & run defense B) Figure out how to get our receivers open C) Running game. All 3 of those issues were addressed in the draft, and free agency.

Now all the sudden, everyone wants to pile on the o-line and demand that Grigson somehow magically puts together an all-pro unit. It doesn't happen like that. It easily took Dallas 5+ years of drafting to get to where they are with that unit in front of Romo, and he STILL manages to get injured every season. And I don't know where you think Luck's gonna go that has a better line, there's basically 4 or 5 teams in the league that have good to great o-lines, and all of those teams are set as far as QBs go for the foreseeable future.

I think it took San Fran about 5 years as well. Russell Wilsons line has been trash for his whole campaign just about. There's still ways to scheme around the issue enough to field a top notch offense. People seem to be conditioned to cry and finger point instead of identifying strategically how long something really takes to build and what things schematcally can be done to get results in the mean time. Never mind all that just fire the stinkin Bums!

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I thought we did have the same line as last year. Who got released? Now we have Thornton at RG instead of Louis, who played RG last year. Both were on the team last year.

Just cause the players are the same doesn't mean the skill is. The talent has dropped off, the protection is just not there like it was.

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