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Confirmed: Luck injured throwing shoulder


csmopar

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When in the draft war-room this year, Pagano should have made a banner to hang on the wall right next to the draft board.

 

2014-2015 SEASON: 

71 QB Hits (14 more than any team in the league).

150 quarterback hurries (fifth-most in the league).

77.4 % of QB injuries happen on passing plays

When sacked and landed on by a 300+ lb defensive lineman, eventually something is going to break

 

Then the following hand-outs to all in attendance at the draft war-room.

  1. Bryan T. Kelly, MD*,
  1. Ronnie P. Barnes, MS, ATC,
  1. John W. Powell, PhD, ATC, and
  1. Russell F. Warren*,§

+ Author Affiliations

  1. From the *Sports Medicine and Shoulder Service, Hospital for Special Surgery, New York, New York, the New York Football Giants, Meadowlands, New Jersey, and the Graduate Athletic Training Program, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan
  1. Address correspondence to Russell F. Warren, Hospital for Special Surgery, 535 E. 70th St., New York, NY 10021 (warren@hss.edu).
Abstract

Background: Quarterbacks are at risk for shoulder injury secondary to both the throwing motion as well as from contact injury.

Objective: To delineate the incidence and etiology of shoulder injuries to quarterbacks in the National Football League (NFL).

Methods: Using the NFL Injury Surveillance System (NFLISS)

Results: A total of 1534 quarterback injuries were identified with a mean of 18.8 and a median of 6.0 days of playing time lost. The majority of these injuries occurred during a game (83.8%). Passing plays were responsible for 77.4% of all quarterback-related injuries. Shoulder injuries were the second most common injury reported (233 or 15.2%), following closely behind head injuries (15.4%). Direct trauma was responsible for 82.3% of the injuries, with acromioclavicular joint sprains being the most common injury overall (40%). Overuse injuries were responsible for 14% of the injuries, the most common being rotator cuff tendinitis (6.1%) followed by biceps tendinitis (3.5%).

Conclusion: In this review, the vast majority of shoulder injuries in quarterbacks occurred as a result of direct trauma (82.3%), and less than 15% were overuse injuries resulting from the actual throwing motion.

 

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I said in another thread he tried but didn't try hard enough. If you are really trying to "PROTECT 12" you at least bring in Incognito for a meeting, or spend that 7th round draft pick on La'el Collins. ANYTHING you can. We hear him looking in Canada for guys like Ben Heenan and guards on FA like Herremans or other "diamonds in the rough". If you really want to protect 12 you put whether or not you think someone is a "horseshoe guy" aside and you PROTECT 12.

 

I know people wanted Grigson to outdo Avis (groan... I know) and try even harder than he already has trying to beef up the O line.  But, using those two (Incognito and Collins) players as proof he failed seem disingenuous to me.  You have to understand that these two were, at their peak of FA, the two most Toxic players on the market. 

 

For Collins, not a single GM, nobody, spent a 7th on Collins.  You would have a point if at least one of the 32 GM's took that huge gamble (which it would have been at that time) and used a real draft pick on him.  None did.  Then when he was an FA, he had his choice of teams.  Pay wasn't in the equation, the CBA limited all suitors to the same type offer.  The Lure of Dallas, and the Lone Star won over Indy.

 

As far as Incognito, after he served his suspension, he spent lots of alone time working out and hoping to get a call.  Finally in 8/2014, the Bucs called. After working him ourt and interviewing him, they passed and traded for Logan Mankins days later.  Then the Broncos called a time later.  After visiting, the Broncos also passed.  So I'm sure some teams called those two and asked about Incognito and why he wasn't signable, in private, of course.  Pagano said he wanted to build a monster, not a Bully.  That was Rex Ryan.  So it is Rex that decides to give Richie a last chance.  Everyone knows what they get on the field with Incognito, a nasty, tough competitor.  But nobody trusted he could turn that off once he left the field of play.  Many super nasty greats can/could do just that.  Be meanest, nastiest, toughest son of a gun on the field and display superior skills in the game.  Then take a shower (maybe use head and shoulders) and and be the nicest guy in the world (I thinking Merlin Olsen, Reggie White, and Troy Polamalu for just 3 quick examples off the top of my head) once they went outside of the clubhouse.  Richie was one that had a history that showed he could not.  So teams were hesitant, with reason. 

 

Cowboys used 3 first round picks to get their line (I believe 2011,2012, 2014).  They hit on all.  But they are the exception, not the rule.  The web is littered with stories of failed attempts to draft O lineman in first round- like this one concerning the Cardinals.

 

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2015/5/1/8528069/2015-nfl-draft-results-1st-round-offensive-linemen-have-not-worked

 

IMO, Grigson just needs to get a little Lucky on his next attempts.  Because it is incredibly difficult to be good (as GM recruiting them or the O line players themselves).  We Colts fans want a better O line.  We also know it is a chronic issue for the Colts, and the NFL as well, and one I blame on the spread offense schemes of college programs, the same reason good QB's are hard to come by as well.  Especially for teams looking for power scheme blockers (like the Colts) vs. the ZBS.

 

I want a better O line too. But I'm not hanging La'el Collins nor Richie Incognito on him (Grigson) though..

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When Luck hit Hilton for 49 yard gain, he was hit. But there were 2 WR underneath who were wide open: Johnson near sideline and Moncrief in the middle. Yes it was 3-and-20, and no guarantee underneath WR could convert 3rd down, but Luck really had a chance to protect himself.

Pagano is trying to keep his job, Hamilton is trying to maximise his chances to get HC job, Luck is trying to maximise his contract... why should they play boring dink-dunk game? It so easy to blame Grigson.

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Just re-watching the Titans game right now. At about 6:35 in the second qtr Luck gets blind sided on third down. He appears to tuck the ball with his left arm and puts his right arm out to brace the fall. Looks like an awkward landing... that's my guess as too which play the injury took place.

It was Orakpo beating Costanzo untouched on that play. But Costanzo appears to pick Luck up off the turf by his right arm immediately afterward so.. maybe not the play lol

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Looks like Luck did practice somewhat today or was limited. Too bad we don't have an early bye week.

 

I am not ready to press a panic button just yet though. He might be sore and hurting but something tells me he will push through it all unless something major happens.

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I know people wanted Grigson to outdo Avis (groan... I know) and try even harder than he already has trying to beef up the O line.  But, using those two (Incognito and Collins) players as proof he failed seem disingenuous to me.  You have to understand that these two were, at their peak of FA, the two most Toxic players on the market. 

 

For Collins, not a single GM, nobody, spent a 7th on Collins.  You would have a point if at least one of the 32 GM's took that huge gamble (which it would have been at that time) and used a real draft pick on him.  None did.  Then when he was an FA, he had his choice of teams.  Pay wasn't in the equation, the CBA limited all suitors to the same type offer.  The Lure of Dallas, and the Lone Star won over Indy.

 

As far as Incognito, after he served his suspension, he spent lots of alone time working out and hoping to get a call.  Finally in 8/2014, the Bucs called. After working him ourt and interviewing him, they passed and traded for Logan Mankins days later.  Then the Broncos called a time later.  After visiting, the Broncos also passed.  So I'm sure some teams called those two and asked about Incognito and why he wasn't signable, in private, of course.  Pagano said he wanted to build a monster, not a Bully.  That was Rex Ryan.  So it is Rex that decides to give Richie a last chance.  Everyone knows what they get on the field with Incognito, a nasty, tough competitor.  But nobody trusted he could turn that off once he left the field of play.  Many super nasty greats can/could do just that.  Be meanest, nastiest, toughest son of a gun on the field and display superior skills in the game.  Then take a shower (maybe use head and shoulders) and and be the nicest guy in the world (I thinking Merlin Olsen, Reggie White, and Troy Polamalu for just 3 quick examples off the top of my head).  Ric hie was one that had a jistory that showed he could not.  So teams were hesitant, with reason. 

 

Cowboys used 3 first round picks to get their line (I believe 2011,2012, 2014).  Thet hit on all.  But they are the exception, not the rule.  The web is littered with storuies of failed attempts to draft O lineman in firt round- like this one concerning the Cardinals.

 

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2015/5/1/8528069/2015-nfl-draft-results-1st-round-offensive-linemen-have-not-worked

 

IMO, Grigson just needs to get a little Lucky on his next attempts.  Because it is incredibly difficult to be good (as GM recruiting them or the O line players themselves).  We Colts fans want a better O line.  We also know it is a chronic issue for the Colts, and the NFL as well, and one I blame on the spread offense schemes of college programs, the same reason good QB's are hard to come by as well.  Especially for teams looking for power scheme blockers (like the Colts) vs. the ZBS.

 

I want a better O line too. But I'm not hanging La'el Collins nor Richie Incognito on him (Grigson) though..

Nice in depth dissertation here

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When Luck hit Hilton for 49 yard gain, he was hit. But there were 2 WR underneath who were wide open: Johnson near sideline and Moncrief in the middle. Yes it was 3-and-20, and no guarantee underneath WR could convert 3rd down, but Luck really had a chance to protect himself.

Pagano is trying to keep his job, Hamilton is trying to maximise his chances to get HC job, Luck is trying to maximise his contract... why should they play boring dink-dunk game? It so easy to blame Grigson.

 

This is ignorance at its finest.  So you're saying it is his fault for trying to move the chains and keep a drive alive rather than dump it off on a 3rd and 20?  Yeesh, with this kind of logic the guy can't win no matter what he does.

 

And I'd have to guess that you'd be in favor of receivers going up with alligator arms to ensure they don't take too much punishment either?

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It was bound to happen sooner or later, Luck getting dinged up. He gets hit more than any other QB in the league. Luckily the injury isn't worse, like a tear or break. It could be worse as in a Romo type injury. You could tell as soon as Romo landed on his shoulder that he probably broke something. That would stink to lose your QB for 2 months like the Cowboys have.

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When in the draft war-room this year, Pagano should have made a banner to hang on the wall right next to the draft board.

 

2014-2015 SEASON: 

71 QB Hits (14 more than any team in the league).

150 quarterback hurries (fifth-most in the league).

77.4 % of QB injuries happen on passing plays

When sacked and landed on by a 300+ lb defensive lineman, eventually something is going to break

 

Then the following hand-outs to all in attendance at the draft war-room.

  1. Bryan T. Kelly, MD*,
  1. Ronnie P. Barnes, MS, ATC,
  1. John W. Powell, PhD, ATC, and
  1. Russell F. Warren*,§

+ Author Affiliations

  1. From the *Sports Medicine and Shoulder Service, Hospital for Special Surgery, New York, New York, the New York Football Giants, Meadowlands, New Jersey, and the Graduate Athletic Training Program, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan
  1. Address correspondence to Russell F. Warren, Hospital for Special Surgery, 535 E. 70th St., New York, NY 10021 (warren@hss.edu).
Abstract

Background: Quarterbacks are at risk for shoulder injury secondary to both the throwing motion as well as from contact injury.

Objective: To delineate the incidence and etiology of shoulder injuries to quarterbacks in the National Football League (NFL).

Methods: Using the NFL Injury Surveillance System (NFLISS)

Results: A total of 1534 quarterback injuries were identified with a mean of 18.8 and a median of 6.0 days of playing time lost. The majority of these injuries occurred during a game (83.8%). Passing plays were responsible for 77.4% of all quarterback-related injuries. Shoulder injuries were the second most common injury reported (233 or 15.2%), following closely behind head injuries (15.4%). Direct trauma was responsible for 82.3% of the injuries, with acromioclavicular joint sprains being the most common injury overall (40%). Overuse injuries were responsible for 14% of the injuries, the most common being rotator cuff tendinitis (6.1%) followed by biceps tendinitis (3.5%).

Conclusion: In this review, the vast majority of shoulder injuries in quarterbacks occurred as a result of direct trauma (82.3%), and less than 15% were overuse injuries resulting from the actual throwing motion.

 

Good one farley

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When Luck hit Hilton for 49 yard gain, he was hit. But there were 2 WR underneath who were wide open: Johnson near sideline and Moncrief in the middle. Yes it was 3-and-20, and no guarantee underneath WR could convert 3rd down, but Luck really had a chance to protect himself.

Pagano is trying to keep his job, Hamilton is trying to maximise his chances to get HC job, Luck is trying to maximise his contract... why should they play boring dink-dunk game? It so easy to blame Grigson.

 

Because "boring dink-dunk" works, is efficient, effective, and keeps the QB upright. Upright QBs play well, and get paid. When QBs play well and get paid, their coordinators have better odds of getting a head coach gig, and their head coaches have better odds of getting a contract extension.

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For as bad as everyone (including myself) thinks the o-line is, they're actually ranked 6th in run blocking, and 15th in pass protection (per Football Outsiders http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol).So they're not even close to being the worst in the league.

Oh good.....they have nice stats!!

 

That's like Abraham Lincoln's wife saying she enjoyed the play that night.

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For those who think Incognito is toxic....

Rex Ryan on Mike Francesa this afternoon: "Richie is a great player, excellent teammate, probably one of the best guards in the league right now."

If you don't think he'd change his ways knowing he's on a serious contender after being the pariah of the league then I'm sorry but you're nuts.

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Careful now... people!

 

Let's not get into the doings of other forums, please.  Please leave their business in their house.  Thank you.

Yeah I agree. I would never even go to their website. I don't even go on ESPN like I used too regarding the gameboards. Just too much negativity for me. I can only imagine what is being said about Luck over there?

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When Luck hit Hilton for 49 yard gain, he was hit. But there were 2 WR underneath who were wide open: Johnson near sideline and Moncrief in the middle. Yes it was 3-and-20, and no guarantee underneath WR could convert 3rd down, but Luck really had a chance to protect himself.

Pagano is trying to keep his job, Hamilton is trying to maximise his chances to get HC job, Luck is trying to maximise his contract... why should they play boring dink-dunk game? It so easy to blame Grigson.

 

Dorsett blew by his man (like a jet!) right off the line of scrimmage..  They had 2 deep safeties, and Dorsett was so fast to the end zone they couldn't get over (either of them) in time.  The fact Luck under threw Phillip, and Dorsett had to slow down and catch it in traffic (as the defender had caught up now, but still not turned his head yet) and make a great grab.  Luck's balls fluttered a lot (like Peyton's did) too.  I think was already injured by then.  His grit and raw talent brought him through.

 

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My bad man!

 

Sorry, not trying to point you out, but was a good time to use as a reminder to all posters.  Sorry it looked like I was singling you out.  This was a reminder to all, I should have made that more clear.  :thmup: I added 1 word to help!

 

Our members can visit anywhere.  Just what happens over there' stays over there.  (like Vegas!)

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Are you shocked? Colts fans were laughing hysterically when Brady got his knee ripped to shreds. In general sports fans are pyschos when it comes to their team and enemy teams.

Well lets hope we have a better time protecting him against the Jags because taking a pounding again like he did against the Titans sure will not help.

Of course Luck could tear his ACL just jogging off the field after a TD, but it is frustrating seeing him hurt and the OL play so poorly.

God bless Marcus Pollard and Kevin Faulk

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I still see it as playcalling.  Luck is waiting for a ton of deep routes to develop, and constantly getting blasted.  Most of those times I seldom see anyone in the flat or 5 yards up field.  Our pass plays are simply looking for it to open up deep.  And we're putting ourselves in predictable situations for the defense.

 

2-3 step drops and get the ball out.  If we start doing that and getting any sort of gains on those plays, we'll take a TON of pressure off of Luck.

I agree. Yeah, Grigs has not been able to field a good offensive line but if Pags is really taking shots at Grigs with his comments then it shows he is aware of the personnel issues and is either unable to get the correct plays called that would help the o-line or that he is unwilling to get the correct plays called. Either way...

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I agree. Yeah, Grigs has not been able to field a good offensive line but if Pags is really taking shots at Grigs with his comments then it shows he is aware of the personnel issues and is either unable to get the correct plays called that would help the o-line or that he is unwilling to get the correct plays called. Either way...

 

Grigson was playing with fire by not doing more to help the O-line. And Luck getting injured was the first burn. It was just an eventuality, at least it sounds like it's not the most serious of injuries at this point. 

 

I'm not a Grigson hater, I think he's absolutely sniped some great mid-round draft picks like Anderson, Parry, Moncrief, Hilton etc. But his inability to get a good Offensive line is enraging at this point.

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In the coming weeks Luck will take a big hit. I'm not talking a typical hard sack that a lot of QBs take, but I mean one of those torpedo hits that'll just drive him into the turf. He'll be slow to get up and we'll all have a mini heart attack.

That'll be it. That'll be the day when Grigson opens his eyes.

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I'm telling you guys,stop blaming the GM.

 

Luck injured his shoulder from throwing too many long passes over the first three weeks.

 

He threw shorter passes in the 4th quarter and we moved the ball well......so maybe a sore shoulder is a good thing.

It sounds like it's a bruise.  You don't bruise your shoulder throwing the ball.  I agree Luck shares in some of the blame for him being banged up but let's not pretend the o-line has been wonderful this year. 

 

I don't agree with putting all the blame on Grigson either and I think calling for his head just because of the o-line isn't truly looking at the whole situation but I do think it's fair to point out his attempts to fix the line have not worked so far. 

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What if he got hurt when he was pancaked trying to make a tackle after his second interception?

 

Edit: I just rewatched the play. He did have a big DL fall on him, but he didn't fall on his throwing shoulder. So that ain't it.

I thought the same thing.  He needs to get off his little "I'm gonna make the tackle" nonsense going forward or the team should start fining him when he does or something.   Though in truth he's saved a couple touchdowns over the years I believe.  Still, enough is enough with the tackling.  

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I'm telling you guys,stop blaming the GM.

 

Luck injured his shoulder from throwing too many long passes over the first three weeks.

 

He threw shorter passes in the 4th quarter and we moved the ball well......so maybe a sore shoulder is a good thing.

uh... yeah...right...okay.... it's always a wonderful thing when your QB is Questionable to start the next game... gosh.. we should be celebrating.... ack....

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It probably makes sense to sit Andrew on Sunday and let Hasselbeck play dinky-dunk and use the running game.

Give Andrew a chance to heal for the following Thursday.

You might be right... man is this tanking my fantasy teams!  I rode luck to 7 out of 10 championships last year.  This year he's not in the top 20 but I was hoping for a monster game this week but it appears that won't happen even if he plays.  

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