Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[1959Colts]

Many are calling for the Colts to sign G Evan Mathis.

But if Mewhort continues to struggle...   It seems to me, our biggest need is OT.

[Superman]

Seems fishy to me.  He chose to go somewhere to be a backup rather than here as a (more or less) guaranteed starter?  Come on.  Sounds like Grigson is applying some revisionist history here.

 

Seems like you're ignoring the facts to push your narrative. Every team in the league wanted to sign Collins. Grigson said they tried to sign him. Collins said he wanted to be close to home, and in a warm weather city. His agents said 29 teams contacted them between Sunday and Tuesday. That's after at least six teams said they were going to draft him on Day 3, only to back off because his agents said he'd hold out. 

 

Rex Ryan pulled the bold move of flying in to visit him. That didn't work. At least 27 other teams at least put their name in the hat. That didn't work. He signed where he wanted to sign.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/15/lael-collins-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-murder-investigation

 

Unless you can prove that Grigson is lying, you really should let it go. The Colts tried to sign him. He chose the Cowboys. End of story.

[Superman]

Many are calling for the Colts to sign G Evan Mathis.

But if Mewhort continues to struggle...   It seems to me, our biggest need is OT.

 

Our biggest need is already OT. There's no depth behind AC and Mewhort, besides Reitz, who's best at guard. 

 

I'm not worried about Mewhort, but if one of those two gets hurt, then what? Thankfully, John and Good haven't looked totally lost in pass protection.

[NewColtsFan]

Seems fishy to me.  He chose to go somewhere to be a backup rather than here as a (more or less) guaranteed starter?  Come on.  Sounds like Grigson is applying some revisionist history here.

 

I appreciate that you're new,  but this whole thread is one big spectacular FAIL for you.

 

Lots of people here throw out crazy talk....  makes for weird, sometimes even fun discussions.

 

But they almost never stick.      Sooner or later the truth comes out and the crazy talk goes away.

 

See Superman's answer to one of your latest conspiracy theories....

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Preseason football is just practice not a game that counts this is not the regular season Grigsons explaining anything is premature the preseason is all about practice .

 

3 seasons better results each year . It starts in Sept until then chill ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

[Track Guy]

Our biggest need is already OT. There's no depth behind AC and Mewhort, besides Reitz, who's best at guard. 

 

I'm not worried about Mewhort, but if one of those two gets hurt, then what? Thankfully, John and Good haven't looked totally lost in pass protection.

 

I haven't got to watch either preseason game, but you'd say Mewhort doesn't look completely doomed at RT? Some on the board gave the impression this past game was a train wreck. I liked him last year at guard, so I'm really pulling for him.

[Superman]

I haven't got to watch either preseason game, but you'd say Mewhort doesn't look completely doomed at RT? Some on the board gave the impression this past game was a train wreck. I liked him last year at guard, so I'm really pulling for him.

 

He's had two or three bad snaps in 29 pass plays. He's a second year lineman, newly moved to the outside. Second preseason game. He obviously has to do better than he did early yesterday, but every tackle has a rough patch from time to time. I'm really not worried about the proection.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Based on what I've seen in preseason thus far, the offensive line is a complete mess.  Now, what I want to know is:

 

Why the hell didn't we sign La'el Collins?  Or Incognito??  Or Mathis who's still available?!?

 

Yes, we got Herremans, who thus far has looked highly suspect.  Everyone else named above is much better.  Collins more than anyone bothers me.  A first round, possibly top 5 pick is available in FA and we show minimal interest?  Grigson should have thrown in the kitchen sink to get him to sign here.  Instead, the rich (best O line in the league in Dallas) get richer.

 

Grigson needs to be held accountable if the line still stinks come week 1.  This is his 4th year.  Enough is enough.

 

And not taking Collins was just ...     stupid IMO

 

La'el Collins was radioactive at draft.  Yes, a few of us wanted Grigs to roll the dice with a round 6 or 7 pick, but his agent polluted the draft pool saying he'd withdrawal Collins and re-enter next year (which he could not have done) if not ntaken by round 3.  So NO GM took him.  Once he hit FA, and was cleared, many teams were interested. Including Grigson.  Here is Ryan's take on it on August 5th-

 

"We had interest in La'el Collins," Grigson said. "We took it to the Nth degree, but he just chose to go somewhere else. We were in the running. It made sense in a lot of different areas. He was a talented guy who was going to come at a very reduced rate."

 

Nth degree seems like a lot of effort.

 

For the O line?  Here was the 2012 gang.  Now who is left from that group?

2012 Roster

Center-

Samson Satele

A.Q. Shipley

OT-

Anthony Castonzo

Tony Hillis

Winston Justice

Jeff Linkenbach

Bradley Sowell

 

Two left, Catonzo and Reitz.  Here's the additions since-

Guard-

Trai Essex

Mike McGlynn

Seth Olsen

Joe Reitz

Justin Anderson  G   7th

Hugh Thornton   G  3rd

Khaled Holmes  G - C  4th

Jack Mewhort  G - T  2nd

Ulrick John  OT  7th

Denzelle Good  7th

More O Line additions-

Donald Thomas

*Gosder Cherilus

Jonnothan Harrison  - UDFA

Lance Louis  

Todd Herremans

Kitt O'Btien

Hartland Gunn

David Arkin

Tyler Hoover

Brandon Vitable

 

(probably missing more)

---------------------------------------------------------

 

seem most of our fans want the top line player.  Her's how we would sit if that played out as on our forum-

 

Alex Mack               $8,000,000.00   -

Andy Levitre           $8,600,000.00   -

Louis Vasquez        $6,250,000.00   -

Evan Mathis     *     $6,500,000.00   -

Anthony Castonzo  $7,438,000.00   ***

**Gosder Cherilus   $6,900,000.00   -

 

Looks like well over 40+million there... 

 

So in essence, Grigson has addressed the O line, but not by spending 40+ million.  The players have not either been healthy, or not progressed into a good player... yet.  Let's see what another year does in development, and hopefully they stay healthy enough to work and Gel together.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

La'el Collins was radioactive at draft. Yes, a few of us wanted Grigs to roll the dice with a round 6 or 7 pick, but his agent polluted the draft pool saying he'd withdrawal Collins and re-enter next year (which he could not have done) if not ntaken by round 3. So NO GM took him. Once he hit FA, and was cleared, many teams were interested. Including Grigson. Here is Ryan's take on it on August 5th-

"We had interest in La'el Collins," Grigson said. "We took it to the Nth degree, but he just chose to go somewhere else. We were in the running. It made sense in a lot of different areas. He was a talented guy who was going to come at a very reduced rate."

Nth degree seems like a lot of effort.

For the O line? Here was the 2012 gang. Now who is left from that group?

2012 Roster

Center-

Samson Satele

A.Q. Shipley

OT-

Anthony Castonzo

Tony Hillis

Winston Justice

Jeff Linkenbach

Bradley Sowell

Two left, Catonzo and Reitz. Here's the additions since-

Guard-

Trai Essex

Mike McGlynn

Seth Olsen

Joe ReitzDraft:

Justin Anderson G 7th

Hugh Thornton G 3rd

Khaled Holmes G - C 4th

Jack Mewhort G - T 2nd

Ulrick John OT 7th

Denzelle Good 7th

More O Line additions-

Donald Thomas

*Gosder Cherilus

Jonnothan Harrison - UDFA

Lance Louis

Todd Herremans

Kitt O'Btien

Hartland Gunn

David Arkin

Tyler Hoover

Brandon Vitable

(probably missing more)

---------------------------------------------------------

seem most of our fans want the top line player. Her's how we would sit if that played out as on our forum-

Alex Mack $8,000,000.00 -

Andy Levitre $8,600,000.00 -

Louis Vasquez $6,250,000.00 -

Evan Mathis * $6,500,000.00 -

Anthony Castonzo $7,438,000.00 ***

**Gosder Cherilus $6,900,000.00 -

Looks like well over 40+million there...

So in essence, Grigson has addressed the O line, but not by spending 40+ million. The players have not either been healthy, or not progressed into a good player... yet. Let's see what another year does in development, and hopefully they stay healthy enough to work and Gel together.

I'm not buying this he has tried so hard to fix the o line stuff maybe try picking an o linemen in the 1st and second rounds all his nut mewhort were mud to late picks or UDFAs so no IMO he hadn't done much of anything

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm not buying this he has tried so hard to fix the o line stuff maybe try picking an o linemen in the 1st and second rounds all his nut mewhort were mud to late picks or UDFAs so no IMO he hadn't done much of anything

 

OK, show me your wares and see if we buy?  Who as far as O lineman would you have drafted on the lines last few drafts and where, and what players we have now would be on other teams because of your O line draft choices?  I'm willing to listen.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I haven't got to watch either preseason game, but you'd say Mewhort doesn't look completely doomed at RT? Some on the board gave the impression this past game was a train wreck. I liked him last year at guard, so I'm really pulling for him.

 

He had 2 bad plays on the first drive. They were really bad though, and they just happened to be back-to-back, one of which resulted in a sack. After that he seemed fine.

[ar1888]

OK, show me your wares and see if we buy?  Who as far as O lineman would you have drafted on the lines last few drafts and where, and what players we have now would be on other teams because of your O line draft choices?  I'm willing to listen.

In 2013 Drafted Bjoern Werner In the first.  Could have gone with CTravis Frederick, or G Larry Warford.  That's off the top of my head.

[ztboiler]

He's had two or three bad snaps in 29 pass plays. He's a second year lineman, newly moved to the outside. Second preseason game. He obviously has to do better than he did early yesterday, but every tackle has a rough patch from time to time. I'm really not worried about the proection.

Think folks may be a little jumpy around here?  Mewhort got beat....the whole plan is doomed!!!!

 

We really need fan forum "mirroring" technology so that every thread complaining about an O-line player getting beat can be seen side by side with the opposing teams fan forum about their pass rushers not getting enough pressure.  

 

If McFee hadn't been able to flash (as could have easily been the case and often is) the Bears forum would have been up in arms about how their stupid GM overspent on such a useless excuse for a playmaker.  In fact, if players like McFee weren't capable of beating perfectly good tackles (see Jared Allen besting Castonzo) they wouldn't command a premium FA price.  By definition, I believe that means he probably beat some other good players in years past that were also trying to prevent him from tackling their QB.  Or....maybe those guys only ever beat poor O-lineman to pile up their stats....silly thoughts, I know.

[BOTT]

OK, show me your wares and see if we buy?  Who as far as O lineman would you have drafted on the lines last few drafts and where, and what players we have now would be on other teams because of your O line draft choices?  I'm willing to listen.

Osemele in place of Fleener would have been nice. Not sure how Cordy Glenn has been playing.

[BOTT]

La'el Collins was radioactive at draft.  Yes, a few of us wanted Grigs to roll the dice with a round 6 or 7 pick, but his agent polluted the draft pool saying he'd withdrawal Collins and re-enter next year (which he could not have done) if not ntaken by round 3.  So NO GM took him.  Once he hit FA, and was cleared, many teams were interested. Including Grigson.  Here is Ryan's take on it on August 5th-

 

"We had interest in La'el Collins," Grigson said. "We took it to the Nth degree, but he just chose to go somewhere else. We were in the running. It made sense in a lot of different areas. He was a talented guy who was going to come at a very reduced rate."

 

Nth degree seems like a lot of effort.

 

For the O line?  Here was the 2012 gang.  Now who is left from that group?

2012 Roster

Center-

Samson Satele

A.Q. Shipley

OT-

Anthony Castonzo

Tony Hillis

Winston Justice

Jeff Linkenbach

Bradley Sowell

 

Two left, Catonzo and Reitz.  Here's the additions since-

Guard-

Trai Essex

Mike McGlynn

Seth Olsen

Joe ReitzDraft:

Justin Anderson  G   7th

Hugh Thornton   G  3rd

Khaled Holmes  G - C  4th

Jack Mewhort  G - T  2nd

Ulrick John  OT  7th

Denzelle Good  7th

More O Line additions-

Donald Thomas

*Gosder Cherilus

Jonnothan Harrison  - UDFA

Lance Louis  

Todd Herremans

Kitt O'Btien

Hartland Gunn

David Arkin

Tyler Hoover

Brandon Vitable

 

(probably missing more)

---------------------------------------------------------

 

seem most of our fans want the top line player.  Her's how we would sit if that played out as on our forum-

 

Alex Mack               $8,000,000.00   -

Andy Levitre           $8,600,000.00   -

Louis Vasquez        $6,250,000.00   -

Evan Mathis     *     $6,500,000.00   -

Anthony Castonzo  $7,438,000.00   ***

**Gosder Cherilus   $6,900,000.00   -

 

Looks like well over 40+million there... 

 

So in essence, Grigson has addressed the O line, but not by spending 40+ million.  The players have not either been healthy, or not progressed into a good player... yet.  Let's see what another year does in development, and hopefully they stay healthy enough to work and Gel together.

He could have had Matt Slauson and Andre Smith for much cheaper than what he paid for Thomas and Gosder. I suggested it, but maybe he doesn't read my posts.

[Colts_Fan12]

OK, show me your wares and see if we buy? Who as far as O lineman would you have drafted on the lines last few drafts and where, and what players we have now would be on other teams because of your O line draft choices? I'm willing to listen.

well draft possibilities 2013 Larry Woford G 2014 could have got a better C in Bryan Stork and in 2015 should have got Donovan Smith instead of Dorsette add that with AC and could have gotten one of the good guards in FA wouldn't have to be a superstar just a respectable guard I'd be everyone of those players was available

[Colts_Fan12]

He could have had Matt Slauson and Andre Smith for much cheaper than what he paid for Thomas and Gosder. I suggested it, but maybe he doesn't read my posts.

I'd have taken them as well I like Smith

[ponyboy]

La'el Collins was radioactive at draft.  Yes, a few of us wanted Grigs to roll the dice with a round 6 or 7 pick, but his agent polluted the draft pool saying he'd withdrawal Collins and re-enter next year (which he could not have done) if not ntaken by round 3.  So NO GM took him.

 

 

The fact that no team took a chance on him does show that he was radioactive at the draft -- but I never understood why that had to be the case.

 

I was interested in La'el (prior to the news that knocked him out of the draft) based on interviews I heard with him on XM NFL radio. Plus every commentator I heard on those programs just were over the top praising him on being a high character guy and an incredible talent -- scouts, former GMs, coaches, etc.  I never heard a negative remark about him.

 

Then the news broke.  He was wanted for questioning but *not* considered a suspect.  Coaches and others came out again to stand up for La'el and, of course, say they believed he had absolutely no involvement with what happened and would be beyond shocked if it were otherwise.

 

I would think that GMs who interviewed him would have felt the same way.    I can understand not taking the risk of using a higher round draft pick on him, but why not take a lower round risk if you're 99% sure he has no involvement?    And in the remote chance that he was involved, why would there have to PR backlash if you took a chance on a player you completely trusted -- only to be blindsided and shocked that he was actually involved?

 

During the draft I was hoping the Colts would try to trade up from 108 in the 4th to the end of 3rd to take him (given the agents bluff of not signing if drafted after 3rd).  Of course I was way off as nobody touched him the entire draft, but I still don't understand why he had to be radioactive if you believed in him.

[indyagent17]

Mewhort looked just plain awful last night, he was beaten soundly a few times. He looked lost a few times and simply did not seal his gap as players just took advantage.

 

Its week 2 of the preseason and I am willing to wait until game 1 in September but its just not encouraging 

[ColtRider]

Several things I've noticed reading this thread.

1. Impatience

2. Impatience

and finally,

3. Impatience

Some of our fan base need to be schooled in the art of winning franchises dying at the hands of the three facts above.

[Colts_Fan12]

Several things I've noticed reading this thread.

1. Impatience

2. Impatience

and finally,

3. Impatience

Some of our fan base need to be schooled in the art of winning franchises dying at the hands of the three facts above.

so 4 years in and we still have a crap line and lucks still getting hit that's all good?

[CoachLite]

Our biggest need is already OT. There's no depth behind AC and Mewhort, besides Reitz, who's best at guard. 

 

I'm not worried about Mewhort, but if one of those two gets hurt, then what? Thankfully, John and Good haven't looked totally lost in pass protection.

 

What? Denzelle Good is chopped liver? Yes he's young and rough - and makes rookie mistakes.  I think Good will be very good, and sooner than later.

[jabbanobadda]

I stopped reading this when you said Luck had time. Then reread it to make sure I wasn't dreaming

I didn't know it meant having time when first 2 plays your QB is down. I must be new to this football stuff

I'm not saying the pass pro looked great but to be fair, Luck held the ball too long on his second pass play.

[jabbanobadda]

I stopped reading this when you said Luck had time. Then reread it to make sure I wasn't dreaming

I didn't know it meant having time when first 2 plays your QB is down. I must be new to this football stuff

I'm not saying the pass pro looked great but to be fair, Luck held the ball too long on his second pass play.

[ColtRider]

You don't even know what I'm talking about. Clue : It's not about the O-Line and Andrew Luck! It's something far more egregious than that. Here's another clue : Oakland, Cleveland, ... fill in the rest of the blanks ... and you might understand ...

Ref: post # 141 (forgot to hit "quote")

[Superman]

What? Denzelle Good is chopped liver? Yes he's young and rough - and makes rookie mistakes. I think Good will be very good, and sooner than later.

Good is entirely unproven. He's only played against second and third stringers, and it's not like he's been outstanding. But yeah, I think we should keep him around and coach him up. That's the idea. I just don't want to have to rely on him if something happens to the starters.

[Colts_Fan12]

You don't even know what I'm talking about. Clue : It's not about the O-Line and Andrew Luck! It's something far more egregious than that. Here's another clue : Oakland, Cleveland, ... fill in the rest of the blanks ... and you might understand ...

Ref: post # 141 (forgot to hit "quote")

your trying to say some fans in this thread are impatient

And IMO being * off about the line being bad at the start of year 4 isn't being impatient

[BOTT]

Delete

[BOTT]

You don't even know what I'm talking about. Clue : It's not about the O-Line and Andrew Luck! It's something far more egregious than that. Here's another clue : Oakland, Cleveland, ... fill in the rest of the blanks ... and you might understand ...

Ref: post # 141 (forgot to hit "quote")

Chicago Bulls

[ColtsBlueFL]

In 2013 Drafted Bjoern Werner In the first.  Could have gone with CTravis Frederick, or G Larry Warford.  That's off the top of my head.

There's on, I'm still ears if you have more.  Also, people here (forum)seem to draft for need, not BPA.  What was our biggest need that year?  Pas rush specialist or Big ugly on the O line?

[ColtsBlueFL]

He could have had Matt Slauson and Andre Smith for much cheaper than what he paid for Thomas and Gosder. I suggested it, but maybe he doesn't read my posts.

 

Mine either.  would have had Rhodes over Werner). But he is the 'position' so he trumps.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Osemele in place of Fleener would have been nice. Not sure how Cordy Glenn has been playing.

 

I could see that, there's two, and we're down Fleener and Werner...

[ColtRider]

your trying to say some fans in this thread are impatient

And IMO being * off about the line being bad at the start of year 4 isn't being impatient

That, coupled with the fact of some not knowing the difference between a sustained successful franchise v. unsuccessful ones. Fan and media pressure have actually influenced and killed several I can think of. All of the whining about the Indianapolis Colts and what they're not doing v. their actual record over the last 15 years is not only inaccurate, but down right ridiculous.

To lay blame at the feet of Ryan Grigson for the last 4 years coincides with that line of thinking. Regardless what others think about the inabilities of this GM, the fact remains that no other GM could've matched what this franchise accomplished in the last 3 years. From a dismal 2-14 to an AFCCG in as little time was not all _LUCK_. That's the difference between knowing what an individual can do for a team or an individual lacking the team mentality can prove over such a short period. It's give and take. Grigson has given far more to this franchise than take away from it. For Owners and GMs right down to the fan base it's all about wins and escalating that to the next level each and every year.

Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, the rest of the coaching staff, and players have all done that.

[ColtsBlueFL]

There were serious concerns about the NFL's image and Collins paid the price for it. His crime was basically knowing a woman that was murdered.

 

Very true, but to be fair, he was also a potential father (knowing her in another way) of the baby his ex girlfriend was carrying.  And has the most insanely bad luck in timing for this to occur.  Grigson went after him hard as an F.A., but Jerry and the Lone Star pried him away from us.

[Pacergeek]

The offensive line was garbage when Grigson took over as GM. 4 years later, the offensive line is still a disaster. I don't need to wait until the regular season to see Luck get drilled to realize that the 2015 Colts offensive line is trash

[BOTT]

I could see that, there's two, and we're down Fleener and Werner...

Easy decision. Werner is horrible and Osemele > Fleener

[ColtRider]

The offensive line was garbage when Grigson took over as GM. 4 years later, the offensive line is still a disaster. I don't need to wait until the regular season to see Luck get drilled to realize that the 2015 Colts offensive line is trash

Name one NFL team that's bullet-proof. Every team has it's vulnerabilities. I'm okay with the OL. Can it get better? Sure. I'm not so afraid of Luck getting "drilled" to the point of severe injury and out, as I am to the degree of hiding him in a hole (play calls) and playing it safe because of OL play. The man is going to get hit from time to time. It's the NFL, not flag football. Besides, I highly doubt you're seeing the entire picture during preseason. Ever. From any team. We've had a couple of sacks. So what? It happens.

We go 2-3 games into the regular season and we see him being sacked repeatedly? Yeah, worry then. Not now.

[Colts_Fan12]

There's on, I'm still ears if you have more. Also, people here (forum)seem to draft for need, not BPA. What was our biggest need that year? Pas rush specialist or Big ugly on the O line?

o line was a huge need??

[NewColtsFan]

The offensive line was garbage when Grigson took over as GM. 4 years later, the offensive line is still a disaster. I don't need to wait until the regular season to see Luck get drilled to realize that the 2015 Colts offensive line is trash

 

If you're under the impression that you can judge an offensive line -- ANY offensive line -- by the first two games of the pre-season, you would not just be wrong,  you'd be spectacularly wrong.

 

The offensive line takes time to gel....  any line.... it's taking our line time.     Two games into the pre-season is not nearly enough time to know if the line is "trash"......

[NewColtsFan]

so 4 years in and we still have a crap line and lucks still getting hit that's all good?

 

It's two games in to the pre-season.     It's too soon for you any anyone else to know if our line is "crap" or not.

 

It very well may be.    But judging two weeks into the pre-season is what fans do.    It's not what people who are in the NFL do.