The Future of Caldwell and the Polians [Mega-merge]

[billpolianx]

i think the best the fans can hope for is that the owner wants to make a splash with a name coach and gets rid of the polians and caldwell even if he doesn't really want to

[SilentHill]

how long until Caldwell is Fired? Probably Tuesday?

[MAC]

The problem is no great coach will come here as long as Polian is in charge. Polian will not let anyone else have a say. Caldwell is probably safe because he will not challenge Polian.

Why do people assume this? He can't make it through a press conference without quoting Marv Levy. How about Tony Dungy, Jim Mora and Dom Capers. If you looked closely you'd find plenty of strong assistants in there as well who moved on to be HCs.

It is true that he won't hire a coach like Bill Cowher, but that's not because he is too insecure to work with a strong coach, it's because Cowher will demand full control of all player/personel decisions. In other words, he would want to be the GM. Why would the Colts want that? They already have an excellent front office in place, they don't need a coach who wants to run the entire organization. The only way that a coach like that comes in is if the entire front office is fired, and that would be ridiculous. So the question is, do you want a no-name GM with a "big-name" controlling, egocentric coach who tries to do too much (usually having no more success over the long run than any other coaches), or do you want the front office we have now - amongst the most successful in league history, with a less prominent coach. I'll take the later anyday.

And that doesn't have to mean Caldwell. The point is that I'm sure that there are a LOT of fine coaches that would love to work with the Polians - and vice versa.

[sb2001]

Dont know what Steve Beuerlein was reffering too when he said Caldwell did a terrific job this season. How did CBS hire this guy??

Please change your picture. Its soooooo distracting. lol

[Restored]

"keep jim caldwell"

um no

[chrisfarley]

he "gots" to go...... sorry, he is not the leader of men we need. many players on the team dont seem to be held accountable in-game and it's a big problem. other glaring issues include tactical.

[BOTT]

Why do people assume this? He can't make it through a press conference without quoting Marv Levy. How about Tony Dungy, Jim Mora and Dom Capers. If you looked closely you'd find plenty of strong assistants in there as well who moved on to be HCs.

It is true that he won't hire a coach like Bill Cowher, but that's not because he is too insecure to work with a strong coach, it's because Cowher will demand full control of all player/personel decisions. In other words, he would want to be the GM. Why would the Colts want that? They already have an excellent front office in place, they don't need a coach who wants to run the entire organization. The only way that a coach like that comes in is if the entire front office is fired, and that would be ridiculous. So the question is, do you want a no-name GM with a "big-name" controlling, egocentric coach who tries to do too much (usually having no more success over the long run than any other coaches), or do you want the front office we have now - amongst the most successful in league history, with a less prominent coach. I'll take the later anyday.

And that doesn't have to mean Caldwell. The point is that I'm sure that there are a LOT of fine coaches that would love to work with the Polians - and vice versa.

why do people assume cowher wants total control? correct me if i'm wrong but he never had it in pitt. and why would a coach want total control...most who have had it have failed.

[BOTT]

michael lombardi reporting caldwell not going anywhere as long as polian is around per nfl gameday this morning

last i heard irsay is still his boss...and he is the one who hired dungy, not polian.

[torgodog]

I would like to see Jim Caldwell back. We need a new ST coach way more than we need a new HC.

[Balzer40]

I would like to see Jim Caldwell back. We need a new ST coach way more than we need a new HC.

There is no way a coach should keep his job after a 2-14 season. I don't care about excuses or any other nonsense. The guy is an awful coach.

[BillCowher]

Why do people assume this? He can't make it through a press conference without quoting Marv Levy. How about Tony Dungy, Jim Mora and Dom Capers. If you looked closely you'd find plenty of strong assistants in there as well who moved on to be HCs.

It is true that he won't hire a coach like Bill Cowher, but that's not because he is too insecure to work with a strong coach, it's because Cowher will demand full control of all player/personel decisions. In other words, he would want to be the GM. Why would the Colts want that? They already have an excellent front office in place, they don't need a coach who wants to run the entire organization. The only way that a coach like that comes in is if the entire front office is fired, and that would be ridiculous. So the question is, do you want a no-name GM with a "big-name" controlling, egocentric coach who tries to do too much (usually having no more success over the long run than any other coaches), or do you want the front office we have now - amongst the most successful in league history, with a less prominent coach. I'll take the later anyday.

And that doesn't have to mean Caldwell. The point is that I'm sure that there are a LOT of fine coaches that would love to work with the Polians - and vice versa.

Dungy was Irsay's guy. Mora was fired by Polian supposedly because he did not see eye to eye with BP. I was a big BP fan but he lost me this year. I think he is done and should be fired along with his son who does not have BP's track record. BP's time is up. I think the past few years started showing his liabilities and this year was an absolute eye opener. We all gave him credit his first ten years or so but he must be held accountable for the past few years. I just think it is time to clean house and now would be a good time. Thank BP for his success and wish him well and lets bring in some fresh ideas.

[MAC]

why do people assume cowher wants total control? correct me if i'm wrong but he never had it in pitt. and why would a coach want total control...most who have had it have failed.

To the best of my knowledge he DID have total control in Pittsburgh. Does anyone have any idea who their GM(s) were at any point in his run? Listen to him on tv now, he talks about players that "HE" drafted. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to be corrected, and to reconsider. (Not that I like him to begin with - but that's a different issue).

[chrisfarley]

Polian needs a Puppet coach and if anyone doesn't know what I mean by that then you're not paying attention and haven't been for a long, long time.

[MAC]

Dungy was Irsay's guy. Mora was fired by Polian supposedly because he did not see eye to eye with BP.

That's not correct. Mora was fired because he refused to fire Vic Fangio. Polian (and Irsay) wanted to fire Fangio because he insisted on running a sophisticated defense (coming off a year in which the defense had been horrendous). They intentionally wanted to go with a defense that would complement what they were building on offense, and not strain the salary cap unnecessarily. When Dungy became available they considered it a stroke of luck, and that he was hands down the obvious choice. Polian was just as enthusiastic as Irsay - if not more.

[braveheartcolt]

Why do people assume this? He can't make it through a press conference without quoting Marv Levy. How about Tony Dungy, Jim Mora and Dom Capers. If you looked closely you'd find plenty of strong assistants in there as well who moved on to be HCs.

It is true that he won't hire a coach like Bill Cowher, but that's not because he is too insecure to work with a strong coach, it's because Cowher will demand full control of all player/personel decisions. In other words, he would want to be the GM. Why would the Colts want that? They already have an excellent front office in place, they don't need a coach who wants to run the entire organization. The only way that a coach like that comes in is if the entire front office is fired, and that would be ridiculous. So the question is, do you want a no-name GM with a "big-name" controlling, egocentric coach who tries to do too much (usually having no more success over the long run than any other coaches), or do you want the front office we have now - amongst the most successful in league history, with a less prominent coach. I'll take the later anyday.

And that doesn't have to mean Caldwell. The point is that I'm sure that there are a LOT of fine coaches that would love to work with the Polians - and vice versa.

Excellent Front Office? You really have no idea.

[BOTT]

To the best of my knowledge he DID have total control in Pittsburgh. Does anyone have any idea who their GM(s) were at any point in his run? Listen to him on tv now, he talks about players that "HE" drafted. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to be corrected, and to reconsider. (Not that I like him to begin with - but that's a different issue).

wow, i didn't know that. i guess i just assumed a organization like pitt wouldn't give a coach that kind of control. i wonder if tomlin has the same control? like you i wasn't advocating cowher....well, unless he brings dick lebeau with him.

[BillCowher]

That's not correct. Mora was fired because he refused to fire Vic Fangio. Polian (and Irsay) wanted to fire Fangio because he insisted on running a sophisticated defense (coming off a year in which the defense had been horrendous). They intentionally wanted to go with a defense that would complement what they were building on offense, and not strain the salary cap unnecessarily. When Dungy became available they considered it a stroke of luck, and that he was hands down the obvious choice. Polian was just as enthusiastic as Irsay - if not more.

My point exactly. Mora was willing to stand up to BP. I'm not saying he was right but no coach will stand up to BP and still be coach at the end of season. BP wants a coach that will say "how high" to every single BP command. He will not tolerate an independent thinker.

[BOTT]

That's not correct. Mora was fired because he refused to fire Vic Fangio. Polian (and Irsay) wanted to fire Fangio because he insisted on running a sophisticated defense (coming off a year in which the defense had been horrendous). They intentionally wanted to go with a defense that would complement what they were building on offense, and not strain the salary cap unnecessarily. When Dungy became available they considered it a stroke of luck, and that he was hands down the obvious choice. Polian was just as enthusiastic as Irsay - if not more.

so they intentionally built a mediocre defense? i kid....kinda

[BOTT]

That's not correct. Mora was fired because he refused to fire Vic Fangio. Polian (and Irsay) wanted to fire Fangio because he insisted on running a sophisticated defense (coming off a year in which the defense had been horrendous). They intentionally wanted to go with a defense that would complement what they were building on offense, and not strain the salary cap unnecessarily. When Dungy became available they considered it a stroke of luck, and that he was hands down the obvious choice. Polian was just as enthusiastic as Irsay - if not more.

according to the indy star polian wanted nick saban, not dungy. can't say i blame him...

[MAC]

Excellent Front Office? You really have no idea.

Some people are so focused on their own teams assets that they over-rate what they have. In turn some people are so focused on every petty negative that they under-rate (or even absurdly scorn) what they have. How about just fairly looking at all 32 organizations. Whose front office would you rather have? Polian is a lock for the hall-of-fame. If you want to argue about a few bad decisions, terrific - but you could say the same thing about any organization. All in all, the Colts are the envy of the league. It's a pity that you can't even recognize it, and feel compelled to insult those who do.

[fade]

Time for elder Polian to retire and he has earned it and I still admire and respect him. But I cant stand Caldwell. All that smiling and laughing when we do dumb things to lose a game just eats my crawl. Now he is dancing when someone does there job and it just comes across as hey look at me. Honesty I would fire the enitire coaching staff. All of them. Where I differ with most I like Chris Polian. I think he deserves a shot after daddy is retired. Thank God the Colts lost today at least they finally did something right. But my prediction is Irsay will keep the same staff and same players draft Luck and bench him. We then go 10-6 and lose in the first round of play-offs.

[CCH]

See ya Jim... good luck wherever you go. It's time for change in Indianapolis.

[MAC]

wow, i didn't know that. i guess i just assumed a organization like pitt wouldn't give a coach that kind of control. i wonder if tomlin has the same control? like you i wasn't advocating cowher....well, unless he brings dick lebeau with him.

This prompted me to go look it up. The Steelers actually never had a guy with the title GM until this year. Ever. They just promoted their long-time "Director of football operations".

That's not to say that the guy isn't brilliant at evaluating talent, but he was in his early 40s when he started in the previous job. I'm quite sure that he didn't have the final word on drafting. It always sounded very similar to the situation in New England. Belichick isn't running around the country evaluating talent, but he makes the decisions.

[MAC]

according to the indy star polian wanted nick saban, not dungy. can't say i blame him...

When I talk about this topic I like to refer people to this article.

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

The link starts on page 172 for some reason. The article starts on 124, This topic is covered on 128. Fascinating insight into the building of the Colts SB team, and refutes a lot of the silly assumptions that people make about the way that the Colts work.

[MAC]

My point exactly. Mora was willing to stand up to BP. I'm not saying he was right but no coach will stand up to BP and still be coach at the end of season. BP wants a coach that will say "how high" to every single BP command. He will not tolerate an independent thinker.

Mora didn't get fired for standing up to BP, that's a very shallow way of looking at it. There is a world of difference between preferring to hire people who share your philosophy, and insisting on only hiring weak fools who cowtow to you. One is how you build a cohesive organization. The other is a recipe for a very short career.

How long as Polian been suceeding at this now?

People know that Polian has an oversized ego, a quick temper, and that he doesn't "suffer fools gladly" - so they take the snappy answers and the history of disagreements with his bosses, and project all these silly other concepts and conceits onto him. It may be unpleasant to interview him, or maybe even to sit down for diner with him, but that doesn't mean that he is an irrational manager. He wants to win, and he's been incredibly succesful at doing so. , Do you really think that he could have achieved all that he has if he was as emotionally fragile as you imagine? In reality somebody like that would never have been able to obtain and maintain a responsible position in the first place - much less had dozens of talented people enthusiastically working for him.

[21isSuperman]

I still think Caldwell should be let go. A 14 loss season is no reason to keep someone, it's a reason to get rid of them. Polian needs to hire some solid coaches, then keep his nose out of what the coaches do. Let the coaches do what you brought them in for, Polian needs to stick to finding and bringing in talent

[oldunclemark]

My

http://www.stampedeb...onday#storyjump

I am sorry to say, But I do fear whats been written will come true...

That the Polians will stay, and they will hire a boring, recycled head coach. Another puppet.

I agree..no major changes ..I think caldwell stays

[unitaswestand]

BBS is crazy. He just makes up stuff with no substance.

I hope Monday that Jim Caldwell gets fired along with Clyde Christenson. Bring in Rod Chudzinski or Mike Zimmer as HC.

[presto123]

I still think Caldwell should be let go. A 14 loss season is no reason to keep someone, it's a reason to get rid of them. Polian needs to hire some solid coaches, then keep his nose out of what the coaches do. Let the coaches do what you brought them in for, Polian needs to stick to finding and bringing in talent

I agree but that has never been Polian. You think he's going to change his stripes all the sudden? I don't think so. That's the reason I want Polian gone as well.

[BOTT]

When I talk about this topic I like to refer people to this article.

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

The link starts on page 172 for some reason. The article starts on 124, This topic is covered on 128. Fascinating insight into the building of the Colts SB team, and refutes a lot of the silly assumptions that people make about the way that the Colts work.

yes, u have refered that to me before. i didn't believe it then, and i don't believe it know especially after polian himself dismissed the notion on his radio show. then again, if i had come up with such an *ic plan i would deny it too.

[MAC]

yes, u have refered that to me before. i didn't believe it then, and i don't believe it know especially after polian himself dismissed the notion on his radio show. then again, if i had come up with such an *ic plan i would deny it too.

If you refuse to believe multiple direct quotes in a magazine, what basis do you have for coming to any conclusion on the topic?

And for an "*ic plan" its been incredibly succesful. If you dismiss your own successful "*ic plans", I'd be curious as to what plans you follow. The brilliant but incredibly unsuccessful ones perhaps?

[21isSuperman]

I agree but that has never been Polian. You think he's going to change his stripes all the sudden? I don't think so. That's the reason I want Polian gone as well.

Maybe (hopefully) he starts doing less with the coaching and team stuff so his son can have his say. Polian can just stick to giving scouting info and stuff like that, letting his son and the coaches do their thing?

[BOTT]

If you refuse to believe multiple direct quotes in a magazine, what basis do you have for coming to any conclusion on the topic?

And for an "*ic plan" its been incredibly succesful. If you dismiss your own successful "*ic plans", I'd be curious as to what plans you follow. The brilliant but incredibly unsuccessful ones perhaps?

why, aren't you witty....

i just told one reason why for why i came to that conclusion....he denied it on his own radio show! and that "plan" has continually produced mediocre defenses.

[MAC]

why aren't you witty....

i just told one reason why for why i came to that conclusion....he denied it on his own radio show! and that "plan" has continually produced mediocre defenses.

Sorry if that was overboard.

The thing is, those mediocre defenses were very often in the top ten in points allowed despite a rotating crop of cheaper players at most positions (good players in their first contracts, great grabs as UFAs). The plan works - if you have a top offense. This year we didn't have a top offense, and the defense was on the field too long (amongst other problems of course). When your starting point is Peyton Manning, I don't have a problem with it.

[BOTT]

If Jeff Fisher is available, Caldwell is fired, and Peyton plans to return - any other NFL team will have a very hard time trying to beat out the Colts for Fisher. He'd love to coach Peyton.

norv turner is likely to get fired and fisher is a socal guy

[Dustin]

If Jeff Fisher is available, Caldwell is fired, and Peyton plans to return - any other NFL team will have a very hard time trying to beat out the Colts for Fisher. He'd love to coach Peyton.

I don't know if this means anything, but Jeff Fisher was spotted at the same Hotel the Tampa Bay Bucs were staying.

[BOTT]

Sorry if that was overboard.

The thing is, those mediocre defenses were very often in the top ten in points allowed despite a rotating crop of cheaper players at most positions (good players in their first contracts, great grabs as UFAs). The plan works - if you have a top offense. This year we didn't have a top offense, and the defense was on the field too long (amongst other problems of course). When your starting point is Peyton Manning, I don't have a problem with it.

but they still paid (and overpaid) on defense....freeney, sanders, hayden, brackett. and don't get me started on using first round picks on running backs when the teams is pass first and running backs aren't worth it anyway.

if that was truly their plan, then it was a recipe for getting beat in the playoffs and that's why i call it *ic.

[deedub75]

There is no way a coach should keep his job after a 2-14 season. I don't care about excuses or any other nonsense. The guy is an awful coach.

I agree. Maybe a 2-14 season if this is your first year coaching and you took over a bad team but it's been going downhill since he lost the Super Bowl for us.

[Fatboyslim11]

That's not correct. Mora was fired because he refused to fire Vic Fangio. Polian (and Irsay) wanted to fire Fangio because he insisted on running a sophisticated defense (coming off a year in which the defense had been horrendous). They intentionally wanted to go with a defense that would complement what they were building on offense, and not strain the salary cap unnecessarily. When Dungy became available they considered it a stroke of luck, and that he was hands down the obvious choice. Polian was just as enthusiastic as Irsay - if not more.

How do you know that Irsay wanted to fire Mora? From all the accounts I have read and heard, Polian was THE person in the Colts organization responsible for Mora’s firing. Also, all the reports most of us have seen show that Irsay was the one who wanted Dungy, not Polian. The Indy Star and other media outlets reported that Polian wanted to hire Nick Saban (I guess that was a part of Polian’s Big 10 fetish).

Your defense of Polian intentionally building a defense that “compliment (ed)” the offense is weak one built on hindsight. Polian wasted a lot of the salary cap initially on a few offensive players that proved too soft to successfully compete in the postseason. Results of this mismanagement of the salary were less talented players for the defense and the continuing legacy of our horrible special teams.

[Moose Of Woe]

Sorry if that was overboard.

The thing is, those mediocre defenses were very often in the top ten in points allowed despite a rotating crop of cheaper players at most positions (good players in their first contracts, great grabs as UFAs). The plan works - if you have a top offense. This year we didn't have a top offense, and the defense was on the field too long (amongst other problems of course). When your starting point is Peyton Manning, I don't have a problem with it.

Top ten points allowed is very misleading. Week in and week out the other team marches down the field for long, time consuming drives. All. Game. Long. When the games are over in the blink of an eye, of course the final scores will reflect that.

We make no name RB's and QB's have career days on a weekly basis. Who were the Chargers' backup QB and RB that torched us in the playoffs last time we met? Anybody remember?

The defense is not mediocre. We should be so lucky. It's built to hang on - not to go out and grab the win. Even so, it can't even always hold on. (Super Bowl) It's BAD.