Training Camp 8/3/15 (Merged)

[BOTT]

What would you consider "living up to that first round selection?" Not being sarcastic, just curious. I'd personally be happy if he's healthy and productive and plays well at OLB. I'm not interested in seeing the Colts try to fit a square peg into a round hole just because fans want to see the next coming of Dwight Freeney. I'm not implying that that's what you want either, but I feel like a lot of people are labeling him a bust because he's not getting a lot of sacks.

How about making some sort of impact. He was drafted to rush the passer and he is horrible at it. He's a bust because he can't play.

[BOTT]

do you think we could trade him?

Two 15th rd picks and a sixer of bush light

[rockywoj]

There might be a team that could part with a 6th or 7th for him that needs wr help. If he goes on waivers, there's no guarantee that a team will definitely get him, because waivers go in order through the teams. Hence, a team offering a late round pick to make sure they get him.

From where I'm sitting, and no disrespect meant, but to think the Colts can get anything for a 4th year guy that is at best a 4th or 5th receiver that has been BARELY able to make their roster, well, despite his very good hands and all the rooting for the under dog that fans like to do, fact is the Whalen is a marginal player. I would be utterly shocked if any team would give up anything for him.

I like Griff and I like the work ethic he brings to the table, but I think he is a special teamer / emergency fill in at best. He's a guy that if he doesn't make the team now (which I don't think he will), he's a cut / put on waivers guy that some other team will maybe pick up, after he clears waivers. #harsh_truth

[NewColtsFan]

I think we could trade Griff if Duron comes on strong. Maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder?

 

Maybe a 7th rounder.       Maybe.

[dw49]

Maybe a 7th rounder.       Maybe.

 

 

Doubtful IMO

[NewColtsFan]

Exactly the reason I HATE the Dorsett pick to this day.  

 

The guy is literally going to be our starting kick returner and that's it.  And next year?  Unless TY doesn't get re-signed or Andre/Moncrief falls off. . . more of the same.  

 

BPA in the first round sounds great but you have to have some sort of idea or plan of how they are going to get on the field often.  And I just don't see that with Dorsett.  

 

What are you talking about?

 

Are you under the impression he's not going to play WR in 3 and 4 WR sets?

 

That's what he was drafted for.     The ST return stuff is an added bonus.

 

If you think he's not going to play a fair amount of WR,   I think you're going to be surprised.    Whether that's good or bad is completely up to you.    But he's going to play WR a fair amount.

 

I'm surprised you don't know this..........

[NewColtsFan]

Doubtful IMO

 

 

You realize I was responding to a person who speculated we'd trade Griff for a 3rd of 4th Round pick?

[Bravo]

It's the 3rd day players are allowed to wear pads just so everyone is aware!!!! Tuesday is day one of pads IF they choose.

[Narcosys]

I'm not saying Whalen is bad, he's just not gonna make it here. The WR depth has caught up to him. We took Dorsett #1 that's why I put him there, he's not going anywhere he's a lock. Hilton & Johnson & Moncrief are locks. Moncrief opened yesterday lined up a #3

It's just no room for Whalen unless Carter or Brown get injured or stink it up

Whalen will go somewhere like Washington or something and play. Just not here in Indianapolis

So do you put Werner in our top 3 or 4 LB? We took him #1

[Valpo2004]

Bingo. I hate the pick, not the player. I'm sure Dorsett will flourish here.... but that was a deep WR draft could've got anyone smh

But the past is the past, just gotta hope for the best at this point. But Grigson is shooting 1/4 so far on first rounders

Luck (hit)

Trent (bust)

Bjoern (looking like a bust)

Dorsett (TBD)

 

Yeah I'm with you I don't think he's a bad player it's just he got drafted to a team with one of the deepest WR corps in the league and is going to have a hard time finding his way on the field.  

 

If I'm picking a first rounder I want to see him at the least contributing as a rookie and starting by year 2 min.  We don't know when Dorsett is going to start. . . Malcom Brown on the other hand was likely a day 1 starter.  

 

But I also am becoming afraid that we're investing heavily into having a "star wars offense" and not putting much investment in our defense.  

[Valpo2004]

What are you talking about?

 

Are you under the impression he's not going to play WR in 3 and 4 WR sets?

 

That's what he was drafted for.     The ST return stuff is an added bonus.

 

If you think he's not going to play a fair amount of WR,   I think you're going to be surprised.    Whether that's good or bad is completely up to you.    But he's going to play WR a fair amount.

 

I'm surprised you don't know this..........

 

This year I don't see him getting in much except in 3rd and long situations in 4 WR sets.  You don't spend a 1st rounder on your #4 WR.

[dw49]

You realize I was responding to a person who speculated we'd trade Griff for a 3rd of 4th Round pick?

 

I wasn't inferring your post was incorrect. His value is nothing or at best a 7th. I was just saying IMO , it would be nothing

[pgt_rob]

Griff, poor guy can't move up the depth chart when the Colts turn around signing Andre Johnson, draft a WR in the 1st, and still have Hilton & Moncrief and 2 stud TE's. lol

[MB-ColtsFan]

Griff, poor guy can't move up the depth chart when the Colts turn around signing Andre Johnson, draft a WR in the 1st, and still have Hilton & Moncrief and 2 stud TE's. lol

The writing is clearly on the wall

...the floor, the ceiling, the roof...

virtually no chance of him making it as WR. Gotta be our top gunner or something if he's going to make the 53, IMO.

[jskinnz]

This year I don't see him getting in much except in 3rd and long situations in 4 WR sets.  You don't spend a 1st rounder on your #4 WR.

 

You do realize they will play football in 2016 too, right?

 

And the belief that they won't get him time in anything but the situation you outlined above is pure nonsense.

[GoColts8818]

This year I don't see him getting in much except in 3rd and long situations in 4 WR sets.  You don't spend a 1st rounder on your #4 WR.

no you spend it on a guy you think can be a future number two or number one depending on what the Colts do with Hilton. This pick is so much like the year they took Reggie it's not even funny. If this guy turns out anything like Reggie, who himself took a couple,of years to catch on as a starter, then it will be a good pick. Give it time not all draft picks have to be judged good or bust by the end of their rookie year.

[backshoulderfade]

Our offense is about having mismatches on every single snap. Dorsett will be an integral part of that, as will TY, AJ, DRM, Coby and Dwayne.

[pgt_rob]

Our offense is about having mismatches on every single snap. Dorsett will be an integral part of that, as will TY, AJ, DRM, Coby and Dwayne.

 

Exactly. Can you imagine the DB struggles with 2 TY Hiltons out there along with Andre Johnson and our monster TE's?

[TKnight24]

So do you put Werner in our top 3 or 4 LB? We took him #1

Nope. Werner is going into his 3rd yr I believe and has shown me nothing. Newsome out shined him last year. Now bring in Cole and his snaps are being reduced. I don't expect much from Werner this year

[backshoulderfade]

Exactly. Can you imagine the DB struggles with 2 TY Hiltons out there along with Andre Johnson and our monster TE's?

TY, DRM and Allen on the field for a few snaps, rotate in Dorsett, Fleener and AJ...what defense could possibly keep up with that.

[pgt_rob]

TY, DRM and Allen on the field for a few snaps, rotate in Dorsett, Fleener and AJ...what defense could possibly keep up with that.

 

My opinion is that it may be pretty tough to keep up.

[GoColts8818]

TY, DRM and Allen on the field for a few snaps, rotate in Dorsett, Fleener and AJ...what defense could possibly keep up with that.

one that can get to the QB and take advantage of our line. I am glad we have Andrew who can move but the line has to hold up to give luck time to use those weapons. While I think the line should be better I am waiting to see it on the field.

[PeterBowman]

so according to Mike Wells, the Colts will be in helmets only today.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/12891/setting-the-schedule-for-day-3-of-colts-training-camp

 

which, if true, means that they'll be in full pads for the Wednesday night practice....which I'll be attending.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

one that can get to the QB and take advantage of our line. I am glad we have Andrew who can move but the line has to hold up to give luck time to use those weapons. While I think the line should be better I am waiting to see it on the field.

 

They're gonna have to utilize some screens and other quick release throws to neutralize teams with strong pass rush talent. I for one would love to see Dorsett catching bubble screens with 3 blockers out in front of him.

[GoColts8818]

They're gonna have to utilize some screens and other quick release throws to neutralize teams with strong pass rush talent. I for one would love to see Dorsett catching bubble screens with 3 blockers out in front of him.

thats good but still to take full advantage of the weapons your line has to hold up to let Luck read the defense. You can't run screens and quick throws all game every gsme or teams will adjust.

[PeterBowman]

thats good but still to take full advantage of the weapons your line has to hold up to let Luck read the defense. You can't run screens and quick throws all game every gsme or teams will adjust.

works for New England

[NewColtsFan]

This year I don't see him getting in much except in 3rd and long situations in 4 WR sets.  You don't spend a 1st rounder on your #4 WR.

 

Perhaps I'm not following your meaning.

 

Your first sentence says Dorsett is not going to play much.

 

Your second sentence says Dorsett IS going to play a lot.

 

Can you clarify?

[Valpo2004]

Perhaps I'm not following your meaning.

 

Your first sentence says Dorsett is not going to play much.

 

Your second sentence says Dorsett IS going to play a lot.

 

Can you clarify?

 

Our #4 WR isn't going to play a lot.  We have 2 good TE's and RB's to factor in.  Plus usually an RB for checkdowns and picking up blitzes.  

 

They arn't going to be leaving Fleener and Allen on the sidelines to bring Dorsett in unless it's a 3rd and really long where Dorsett's speed might give us more of an advantage over having bigger bodied TE's.  (Who are more suited to underneath stuff)

 

If you start counting TE's in the mix then Dorsett is the #6 receiver at best.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

thats good but still to take full advantage of the weapons your line has to hold up to let Luck read the defense. You can't run screens and quick throws all game every gsme or teams will adjust.

 

I assumed that you assumed that I knew that already.

[csmopar]

I think it is the 4th day of practice, they didn't actually practice on Sat. I also saw an article that said that the night practice was the first in pads.

 

 

 

FYI, this is what I was shown on another post.

 

 

This would be true of the Colts, according to the NFL training camp rules.  But other teams started earler, so can be in day 4 before the Colts are.  Here's the rules-

 

Day 1: Limited to physical examinations, meetings, and classroom instruction; no on-field activities other than running and conditioning

Day 2-3: No contact permitted, no pads worn (This means no pads until Tuesday for the Colts)

Day 4 and on: Two-a-day practices permitted with following rules:

    Players may be on the field for a total of no more than 4 hours per day;

    Players may participate in no more than 1 padded practice per day, which shall be no longer than 3 hours of on-field activities;

    There must be at least a 3 hour break after the practice, and the second practice on the same day may only be for a maximum of the remaining available on-field time,  and shall be limited to only "walk-through" instruction (i.e., no helmets, full-speed pre-snap, and walking pace after the snap).

    The three-hour limit on padded practices shall begin as soon as position coaches begin to coach players on the field.

    In the event that a Club begins a padded practice but such practice is cancelled within sixty minutes of its commencement due to inclement weather or for any other reason beyond the Club's control, such practice shall not count as a padded practice

    A "padded practice" shall be defined as a practice in which players are required to wear helmets and shoulder pads, in addition to any other equipment required by the Club.

    It is not a padded practice if, 1) QBs, kickers, punters, and/or long snappers only wear helmets and/or shoulder pads during practice at the option of the player(s); 2) a player who suffered a head injury is directed by a club physician to wear a helmet as a precautionary measure; 3) the quarterback and/or the defensive player who receives signals from the coaching staff via helmet communication wear helmets during the team period in which helmets are used for such communication.

Film

Teams have to film all on-field activities, and maintain a copy of any film until 30 days after the start of the regular season. The NFLPA can review the films only upon the filing of a complaint alleging a violation the Article 23.

Expenses, per diem, room and board

A player's contract pays a base salary, but that base salary is generally only paid during the 17 weeks of the regular season. Players can request an alternate pay schedule, but for base salary, payment comes during the regular season.

During training camp, players receive compensation in a variety of ways. Section 2 of the Article provides that all players players will receive room and board during the pre­-season training camp. Additionally, if a player has not established residence in the team's city, the team has to provide housing between training camp and the Tuesday prior to the team's first regular season game.

Section 3 and 4 provide that all players will receive per diem payments starting the first day of training camp, and ending one week prior to the team's first regular season game. There is one rate for rookies and "first year" players, and another rate for veteran players. A "first year" player is a player who has not completed a season in which a year of "credited service" has been earned. Players on the practice squad would be an example of that. Rookies and first year players get a per diem at a weekly rate of $925, while veterans get a per diem at a weekly rate of $1,700.

Section 8 provides that the team will reimburse all players under contract for reasonable travel expenses incurred in reaching training camp from the players' residences. The players need to submit vouchers. If a player is released by the team, he will be reimbursed for their return trip to their residence, upon submission of vouchers

 

Thus, Day 4 of Colts camp is Tuesday, yes?  If it is at or beyond day 4 of cowboys camp, they can be in pads.

 

[NewColtsFan]

Our #4 WR isn't going to play a lot.  We have 2 good TE's and RB's to factor in.  Plus usually an RB for checkdowns and picking up blitzes.  

 

They arn't going to be leaving Fleener and Allen on the sidelines to bring Dorsett in unless it's a 3rd and really long where Dorsett's speed might give us more of an advantage over having bigger bodied TE's.  (Who are more suited to underneath stuff)

 

If you start counting TE's in the mix then Dorsett is the #6 receiver at best.

 

I think he's going to play more than you think he's going to play.

 

He may not play as much as we want a #1 pick to play,  but more than a #4 WR or a #6 receiver in general might expect to play.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

From where I'm sitting, and no disrespect meant, but to think the Colts can get anything for a 4th year guy that is at best a 4th or 5th receiver that has been BARELY able to make their roster, well, despite his very good hands and all the rooting for the under dog that fans like to do, fact is the Whalen is a marginal player. I would be utterly shocked if any team would give up anything for him.

I like Griff and I like the work ethic he brings to the table, but I think he is a special teamer / emergency fill in at best. He's a guy that if he doesn't make the team now (which I don't think he will), he's a cut / put on waivers guy that some other team will maybe pick up, after he clears waivers. #harsh_truth

This is correct!!

[Narcosys]

Nope. Werner is going into his 3rd yr I believe and has shown me nothing. Newsome out shined him last year. Now bring in Cole and his snaps are being reduced. I don't expect much from Werner this year

So being a number one pick doesn't make you a top 3 or 4 talent.

[jvan1973]

This year I don't see him getting in much except in 3rd and long situations in 4 WR sets. You don't spend a 1st rounder on your #4 WR.

sure you do. If your first two options are questionable to be here three years from now. And he will probably pass moncrief on the depth chart by midseason

[Colt Forty-Five]

If the line does not hold up all the receivers don't mean squat as Andrew will be watching from the hospital bed. Unfortunately, the line talent and ability does not match the skills firepower potential.    

[krunk]

If the line does not hold up all the receivers don't mean squat as Andrew will be watching from the hospital bed. Unfortunately, the line talent and ability does not match the skills firepower potential.    

 

That's what you guys were yelling last year and he passed for close to 5000 yards.  The pass blocking will be fine, the run blocking is what needs and looks to be improving.

[TKnight24]

Donte Moncrief is having a very nice camp for the Colts as well. This WR position looks good. #ColtsCamp

— Josh Wilson (@JoshWilsonSB)

August 4, 2015

[TKnight24]

If the line does not hold up all the receivers don't mean squat as Andrew will be watching from the hospital bed. Unfortunately, the line talent and ability does not match the skills firepower potential.

Stop with the offensive line bashing. Yes, it's not the best in the league, we get that. But Andrew Luck is also part of that problem. There's plays when the offensive line does their jobs but he holds the ball entirely too long instead of throwing the ball away

Hopefully with all these weapons that stops

[TKnight24]

Drops by Dwayne Allen and Frank Gore on consecutive plays. Oof. #ColtsCamp

— Josh Wilson (@JoshWilsonSB)

August 4, 2015

[TKnight24]

Colts have been switching things up a bit. Luck got some reps w/ 2nd team, Hasselbeck with 1st team. But no, there's no QB controversy here.

— Josh Wilson (@JoshWilsonSB)

August 4, 2015