Expecting News on Donald Thomas before Camp

[ztboiler]

By now it seems fair to assume that the Colts want to see how D. Thomas looks in camp and the pre-season before making a decision about his future.  It also seems fair to assume that there is no way they will let Thomas check into camp without a modified deal or otherwise risk a 3rd year on the shelf at his current money.  

 

Therefore, it seems like we should either expect the announcement of a pay cut laced with roster bonus or playing time incentives or that he's been cut between now and camp.  The status quo does not appear to be an option.

 

It feels to me like it makes sense for both sides to see if Thomas can still earn a starting spot.  We have the need and he needs a team with such a need.  Incentive is there to get a new deal done.

[theanarchist]

Thomas seems to be a huge risk and I am actually surprised that he's still on the roster especially given his current pay. He's spent two  years on the team and played in what?, 2.5 games?

[throwing BBZ]

 Interesting perspective, but i believe there is a way he comes in under his current contract. lol

[lollygagger8]

You would think the contract would get changed due to his excessive injuries. 

 

At least I hope it does. 

[ColtStronger]

I definitely agree, but being out of football for 2 years and not being able to workout, I don't see anyway how he can perform at a starting level!  Same with Ballard...  I mean it is possible, but neither of them were "superstars".  Sure they perhaps are above average, but like I said being out of football that long will definitely deminish skills.  I do hope these players can bounce back, but I certainly won't have high expectations.  I just hope they can make it through most of the season and still be available throughout playoffs.

[TKnight24]

I definitely agree, but being out of football for 2 years and not being able to workout, I don't see anyway how he can perform at a starting level! Same with Ballard... I mean it is possible, but neither of them were "superstars". Sure they perhaps are above average, but like I said being out of football that long will definitely deminish skills. I do hope these players can bounce back, but I certainly won't have high expectations. I just hope they can make it through most of the season and still be available throughout playoffs.

100%

Been saying it since the offseason started, not understanding all the high hopes for Ballard. RB life in the NFL is already short, he's now had two leg injuries without being contacted. All the Colts writers have us carrying 4 RB's with Ballard making the roster

Meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering if he'll even make it through the first preseason game. Smh

[Chucklez]

I think the fact that he is still on the team means that the coaching staff are probably more than likely happy with his health and his rehab process.

 

If they werent or had questions then surely they wouldve cut him by now and taken his and Cherilus' cap space and brought Evan Mathis in?.....

[Archer]

You have a very good point.  After two big knee injuries, his $3.5MM salary is too tall for his likely contribution if he makes the roster.  If the Colts would cut him, they could save that money against the cap and no other team is going to give him much.  Seems like the two sides could reach some common ground that makes it worth it (from a salary cap standpoint) for the team to keep him if he earns a roster spot...

[spartancolt]

Don't think either will make it thru camp..if my memory serves me they both went down EARLY in camp both years. Hoping for the best but have no expectation.

[csmopar]

100%

Been saying it since the offseason started, not understanding all the high hopes for Ballard. RB life in the NFL is already short, he's now had two leg injuries without being contacted. All the Colts writers have us carrying 4 RB's with Ballard making the roster

Meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering if he'll even make it through the first preseason game. Smh

Same here

[BleedBlu8792]

I definitely agree, but being out of football for 2 years and not being able to workout, I don't see anyway how he can perform at a starting level!  Same with Ballard...  I mean it is possible, but neither of them were "superstars".  Sure they perhaps are above average, but like I said being out of football that long will definitely deminish skills.  I do hope these players can bounce back, but I certainly won't have high expectations.  I just hope they can make it through most of the season and still be available throughout playoffs.

 

Granted he had two leg injuries but lets not make it sound like he became handicapped. These guys get rehabilitation that exceeds what the public gets. On top of that, and back to the "not being able to work out" comment, he can still do plenty of things to keep himself active. So yes, he still does work out but just not at the extreme workload that he had when 100% healthy. He's been playing football A LONG time, it will hardly take him much time to get back up to full strength. Getting back into game shape will probably be the hardest obstacle. Muscle memory is a beautiful thing, especially with football players...

[Valpo2004]

His cap hit is actually rather low.  It's quite possible they might see what they have in him in TC and assuming he makes it through camp uninjured that he's cut.  If he doesn't make it through camp uninjured then he'll be paid to be on IR for another year.

[ztboiler]

His cap hit is actually rather low.  It's quite possible they might see what they have in him in TC and assuming he makes it through camp uninjured that he's cut.  If he doesn't make it through camp uninjured then he'll be paid to be on IR for another year.

It's $3.5M in new money for Thomas.  That may be a mid level number, but it is very high under the current circumstances.

[ColtStronger]

Granted he had two leg injuries but lets not make it sound like he became handicapped. These guys get rehabilitation that exceeds what the public gets. On top of that, and back to the "not being able to work out" comment, he can still do plenty of things to keep himself active. So yes, he still does work out but just not at the extreme workload that he had when 100% healthy. He's been playing football A LONG time, it will hardly take him much time to get back up to full strength. Getting back into game shape will probably be the hardest obstacle. Muscle memory is a beautiful thing, especially with football players...

I understand that, but look at superstars like Michael Vick and Ricky Williams.  They never really came back to their exact same form after being out of football for so long.  First problem with it is that it does take time, and usually teams aren't willing to wait too long.  Second, Ballard and Thomas aren't pro bowl caliber players starting out.  Teams obviously play next man up and when the original player comes back it is on them to out perform whoever took their job (in most cases).  Im not saying either of them will be cut, but to think they will win a starting job or even be a vital piece of the puzzle is a stretch!

[BleedBlu8792]

I understand that, but look at superstars like Michael Vick and Ricky Williams.  They never really came back to their exact same form after being out of football for so long.  First problem with it is that it does take time, and usually teams aren't willing to wait too long.  Second, Ballard and Thomas aren't pro bowl caliber players starting out.  Teams obviously play next man up and when the original player comes back it is on them to out perform whoever took their job (in most cases).  Im not saying either of them will be cut, but to think they will win a starting job or even be a vital piece of the puzzle is a stretch!

 

To the bold; you're comparing a QB and RB to an OL (Thomas). Both Vick and Williams had to rely on speed and agility which will be easier to lose than pure strength, which Thomas doesn't really have to worry much about. My prior post was specifically pointed at Donald Thomas, as I don't think Ballard will make it unless he has a tremendous camp. Thomas, in my opinion, has a better shot at making the team than Ballard does.

[CR91]

I say let him start at LG and if he gets hurt again cut him.

[ColtsLegacy]

I understand that, but look at superstars like Michael Vick and Ricky Williams. They never really came back to their exact same form after being out of football for so long. First problem with it is that it does take time, and usually teams aren't willing to wait too long. Second, Ballard and Thomas aren't pro bowl caliber players starting out. Teams obviously play next man up and when the original player comes back it is on them to out perform whoever took their job (in most cases). Im not saying either of them will be cut, but to think they will win a starting job or even be a vital piece of the puzzle is a stretch!

Ricky Williams really didn't fall off that much, he just didn't get the attempts he once did. As for Vick, 2010 was easily his best statistical passing season of his career with 2011 being his next best.

[ColtStronger]

To the bold; you're comparing a QB and RB to an OL (Thomas). Both Vick and Williams had to rely on speed and agility which will be easier to lose than pure strength, which Thomas doesn't really have to worry much about. My prior post was specifically pointed at Donald Thomas, as I don't think Ballard will make it unless he has a tremendous camp. Thomas, in my opinion, has a better shot at making the team than Ballard does.

Strength is one thing but what I'm concerned about is technique, footworking, and getting injured again!

[csmopar]

I still say cut him

[Dark Superman]

There is a big part of me that just wants the Colts to cut him now and move on, but I'm hoping Donald does the right thing and restructures his contract and tries to prove that he's healthy and can make it through a full season without landing on I.R.

[Dark Superman]

Since it's a make or break season and our offensive line quite frankly has been our Achilles heel for a few years now, why not just take a flier on Evan Mathis?

 

It's all or nothing and he will improve our interior line immensely. I would think Grigson would be all over this guy.

[Superman]

I say let him start at LG and if he gets hurt again cut him.

 

If he gets hurt he can't be cut.

[CR91]

If he gets hurt he can't be cut.

 

why not?

[RockThatBlue]

So is there news?

[Superman]

why not?

It's the rules. When a player gets cut they have to pass a physical. If not they can't be cut, unless the injury is from the prior season or if they get hurt in non football activities. So if we put Thomas on the practice field and he gets hurt, we can't cut him.

You can reach an injury settlement, but he would have no incentive to accept a settlement when he'd otherwise be entitled to his full pay.

IMO, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the practice field unless he restructures his contract to vet minimum with incentives. If he won't go for that, cut him.

[Superman]

I went back and rewatched the one game Donald Thomas played for us -- 2013 opener against the Raiders. The guy was a monster out there. Had some crushing blocks on linemen, was good in space as a pulling guard, picked up several blitzes (including one by a safety in the middle of the line, where he really showed how well he can move his feet), etc., etc. He was really powerful, had great hand punch, good leverage, more range than you'd expect for a player his size, great awareness... He made a couple mistakes, most of which he was able to make up for with his physical ability. And this was the first game of the season, on a new team. He did look worn down toward the end of the game.

 

If you just focus on his ability, it's obvious why the staff wants to hang on to him. I just don't think they should allow themselves to sink another $3.25m into a player that has suffered severe injuries the last two seasons, who probably has no football conditioning, and who will have to re-acclimate his body to football contact. If he stays healthy, no problem, but adjust his contract so that the team is protected. 

[NewColtsFan]

Since it's a make or break season and our offensive line quite frankly has been our Achilles heel for a few years now, why not just take a flier on Evan Mathis?

 

It's all or nothing and he will improve our interior line immensely. I would think Grigson would be all over this guy.

 

Because typically a "flier" will play for the vet minimum or close to that.

 

Mathis isn't looking to play for the vet minimum.     He's waiting for a team to get a little desperate,  and pay him close to his asking price.

 

I don't think Grigson wants to pay a guard $4-5 Mill,  especially not at this late date.

[Dark Superman]

Because typically a "flier" will play for the vet minimum or close to that.

 

Mathis isn't looking to play for the vet minimum.     He's waiting for a team to get a little desperate,  and pay him close to his asking price.

 

I don't think Grigson wants to pay a guard $4-5 Mill,  especially not at this late date.

 

I'm pretty sure Mathis is looking for more than $4-5 million a year. I'm thinking more in the 6-7 range..

[austriancolt]

Offensive Line will be a huge concern once again this year. Grigson failed to address one of our biggest weaknesses again this offseason and is gambling again by hoping that some unknown or injury prone guys just step up and play like pro bowlers. I'm not mad they cut Cherilus and think Mewhort will be a good RT but it still leaves a hole on the left side that looked good with Castonzo and Mewhort last year. Lance Louis isn't startig material, Donald Thomas is injury prone and Hugh Thornton struggled... If Luck again is one of the most hit QB this year Irsay seriously needs to talk to Grigson! I know a lot of you think that Grigson is a god that can't fail but in my eyes he did at solving our O-Line issues! 

[ztboiler]

I went back and rewatched the one game Donald Thomas played for us -- 2013 opener against the Raiders. The guy was a monster out there. Had some crushing blocks on linemen, was good in space as a pulling guard, picked up several blitzes (including one by a safety in the middle of the line, where he really showed how well he can move his feet), etc., etc. He was really powerful, had great hand punch, good leverage, more range than you'd expect for a player his size, great awareness... He made a couple mistakes, most of which he was able to make up for with his physical ability. And this was the first game of the season, on a new team. He did look worn down toward the end of the game.

 

If you just focus on his ability, it's obvious why the staff wants to hang on to him. I just don't think they should allow themselves to sink another $3.25m into a player that has suffered severe injuries the last two seasons, who probably has no football conditioning, and who will have to re-acclimate his body to football contact. If he stays healthy, no problem, but adjust his contract so that the team is protected. 

What you cite here must be plenty evident to the staff as well, since they clearly want to find a way to make it work.  

 

I honestly hadn't considered the PUP option since he is a full 12 months past his injury, and I very much believe that this is a move to buy more time and implies exactly what you stated earlier - that they don't want to put him on the practice field as a $3.5M liability.

[NewColtsFan]

I'm pretty sure Mathis is looking for more than $4-5 million a year. I'm thinking more in the 6-7 range..

 

Well....   whatever the number is,  that's more to my point.

 

Grigson has never spent close to that kind of money on a guard.    I think Donald Thomas is the highest paid guard we've ever had at $3.5 per year.     We're not going to Mathis that kind of money now unless we have a terrible rash of injuries at guard.

 

That's why we don't take a "flier" on him......

[Superman]

Well....   whatever the number is,  that's more to my point.

 

Grigson has never spent close to that kind of money on a guard.    I think Donald Thomas is the highest paid guard we've ever had at $3.5 per year.     We're not going to Mathis that kind of money now unless we have a terrible rash of injuries at guard.

 

That's why we don't take a "flier" on him......

 

Indeed, paying a 33 year old guard $6-7m/year isn't 'taking a flier' on him. That's a pretty significant investment.

[BleedBlu8792]

I'm pretty sure Mathis is looking for more than $4-5 million a year. I'm thinking more in the 6-7 range..

 

That's the complete opposite of "flier".... Grigson isn't spending that on an OG, especially not at Mathis' age...

[Deano1818]

I think the Colts want to see what happens with the group they have now, before they look elsewhere

 

If the crew stinks it up at LG, I think there will be an effort to call Mathis then, find a camp cut, or even a trade.

 

I think they are set on doing the evaluation first

[csmopar]

I think the Colts want to see what happens with the group they have now, before they look elsewhere

If the crew stinks it up at LG, I think there will be an effort to call Mathis then, find a camp cut, or even a trade.

I think they are set on doing the evaluation first

I just know I have the feeling that Thomas is gonna be hurt......again...2 years now and he's still not ready for opening day of training camp. I get that they may be playing it cautiously but this is the same old story. I think it's time to wave good bye, tell him good luck and go get someone else

[masterlock]

The only reason the Colts have not cut him is because he'd be a significant upgrade over Lance Louis or Hugh Thornton, if healthy. And even though they put him on PUP, I think that's more cautionary. I think they hope to have him back.

[Superman]

Just a random thought on this: Last year, they put him back on the field with no restrictions, full activity, 10.5 months after his original injury. Typical recovery time is 12 months. He's 12 months removed from his latest surgery now. I think they're optimistic that he can recover, having been given more time. Those extra 6 weeks+ could be very helpful when dealing with a major tendon injury.

 

They should still restructure his contract, IMO.

[ColtsLegacy]

Just a random thought on this: Last year, they put him back on the field with no restrictions, full activity, 10.5 months after his original injury. Typical recovery time is 12 months. He's 12 months removed from his latest surgery now. I think they're optimistic that he can recover, having been given more time. Those extra 6 weeks+ could be very helpful when dealing with a major tendon injury.

 

They should still restructure his contract, IMO.

 

If healthy and back to form, big IF, I would be fairly comfortable with the lineup now except with Louis replaced by DT.