Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[Superman]

DUN DUN DAAA!!!! Something else that is not going Brady's way

 

I don't think we know much about Judge Kyle yet. I haven't looked at any of his cases, but he recused himself from the NFLPA's antitrust case back in 2010/11. Doty is the one who wants to strip the NFL of its antitrust exemption and rule everything in favor of the union.

 

By the way, I'm not anti union and pro NFL. I think the owners did the union dirty prior to the previous CBA negotiations, and I hate the franchise tag. So it's not that I'm just in the league's corner and think Doty is scum, but he does seem to have an axe to grind and an agenda that he's about. He likes to legislate from the bench when it comes to labor issues. That's why the union likes him.

[Superman]

Speaking as someone who has real life experience and an education in digital forensic and Cybersecurity. There is a very narrow time frame in which wireless carriers keep actual message contents. Beyond that, carriers have information such as sent to/from and time stamps. That's about it. SMS messages don't work and aren't stored in the same fashion as email servers which contain exabytes of capacity. So handing over billing records which would show the sent information and time stamps doesn't prove or disprove squat.

 

The idea is that the league could see that the messages Brady sent/received to/from Jastremski and McNally match up based on time stamps with the messages the league had already reviewed.

[Narcosys]

People are mad that Goodell didn't at least reduce the sentence, but all the reports basically stated that Brady would go to court if he wasn't completely obsolved. So might as well just keep it 4 games so it's going to court anyways right?

[Gramz]

By the way, Gramz, John Dowd ripped everything that the NFL has done. Ripped the Wells report. Called this whole situation an ambush.

Now, Gramz is the one who likened this situation to Pete Rose.

Well, the man who investigated Rose and nailed him disagrees with you 100%.

 

I am assuming you are referring to this comment where I was responding to 18Manning...?

 

18Manning, on 29 Jul 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

_{I can't believe there are people that actually still believe Brady is innocent. What does it take to persuade someone he is not innocent at this point?}

yes, and there are people who still believed Pete Rose and Lance Armstrong, and we all see where that went.

 

I wasn't comparing the two cases,  I was comparing the fact that Rose and Armstrong continued to lie, and their fans continued to believe them.   NEWSFLASH  Tom Brady is lying too...  I'll give you the fact that the cases are different, but the lying is the same.

Anyone with a lick of sense knows Tom Brady is lying.

[bababooey]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/29/deflategate-brings-out-the-venom-from-readers/

I'm crying reading this!!!

[Superman]

People are mad that Goodell didn't at least reduce the sentence, but all the reports basically stated that Brady would go to court if he wasn't completely obsolved. So might as well just keep it 4 games so it's going to court anyways right?

 

How about keep it at 4 games since there's no basis for reducing it? There's a precedent for conduct detrimental, particularly as it pertains to competitive issues being met with a 4 game suspension.

[crazycolt1]

If I understood things right Brady wanted to only be punished for not working with the investigation but be cleared in terms of cheating. 

Also from what I understood was Brady wanted the files sealed.

[ViriLudant]

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media%20Resources/7.29.15%20petition%20to%20vacate.pdf

Wow.

The NFL is even more criminal than we all thought.

[ViriLudant]

I am assuming you are referring to this comment where I was responding to 18Manning...?

 

18Manning, on 29 Jul 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

yes, and there are people who still believed Pete Rose and Lance Armstrong, and we all see where that went.

 

I wasn't comparing the two cases,  I was comparing the fact that Rose and Armstrong continued to lie, and their fans continued to believe them.   NEWSFLASH  Tom Brady is lying too...  I'll give you the fact that the cases are different, but the lying is the same.

Anyone with a lick of sense knows Tom Brady is lying.

Once again, you say random stuff without backing up any of it.

By the way, Goodell's own counsel edited the Wells report.

So much for an "independent" investigation. The NFLPA is going to have a field day with that FACT alone.

[Blue Horseshoe]

It should have been doubled because of the lack of remorse.

[jvan1973]

Once again, you say random stuff without backing up any of it.

By the way, Goodell's own counsel edited the Wells report.

So much for an "independent" investigation. The NFLPA is going to have a field day with that FACT alone.

Yeah, just because they claim that doesn't make it fact.

Its funny you call people out for making statements without backing it up. You are the biggest offender in doing that very thing

[Gramz]

Once again, you say random stuff without backing up any of it.

By the way, Goodell's own counsel edited the Wells report.

So much for an "independent" investigation. The NFLPA is going to have a field day with that FACT alone.

What am I supposed to back up...??  I back up that  I believe Brady is lying.   75% of the Country believes he is lying.   

[bababooey]

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media%20Resources/7.29.15%20petition%20to%20vacate.pdf

Wow.

The NFL is even more criminal than we all thought.

I'm laughing at you, six months strong

[PrincetonTiger]

Everyone needs to remember

Everything Will Be Okay

[ViriLudant]

Wow. More blatant bias from Goodell.

Paragraph 111

Because the Competitive Integrity Policy has never been given to players, no player in NFL history has ever been disciplined---or even investigated-for violating this Policy, let alone for being generally aware of someone else's violation of this Policy. Rather, only Clubs and Club personnel have been subject to discipline under. For example, in 2009, the NFL suspended a member of the New York Jets equipment staff after he "attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K[icking] Balls prior to" a Jets game against the New England Patriots. NFLPA Ex.209 at l. According to the NFL in imposing the discipline, the equipment personnel's"attempt to use unapproved materials to prep the Kicking] Balls could [have] easily be[en] interpreted as an attempt to gain a competitive advantage." 1d. However, the Jets' kicker-the player who could have benefited from the alleged attempt to gain a competitive advantage" (id.)-was not investigated, let alone disciplined. tlr'g Tr. 25A:7-12 (Vincent). This was perfectly consistent with the Competitive Integrity Policy's application to Clubs, not players, as well as the fact that even if the Jets kicker was "generally aware" of the infraction, general awareness is not a basis for discipline.

[Gramz]

Everyone needs to remember

Everything Will Be Okay

  Everything is Okay.   Just kickin' tires here.

[RockThatBlue]

Once again, you say random stuff without backing up any of it.

By the way, Goodell's own counsel edited the Wells report.

So much for an "independent" investigation. The NFLPA is going to have a field day with that FACT alone.

We are still waiting for you to show us where Brady said he would show all his texts to the league. But shockingly I guess you made it up.

[schwamm]

Wow. More blatant bias from Goodell.

Paragraph 111

I have a blatant bias too against cheating (and efforts to lie and cover up that cheating).

How much documentation should one really need to give, and how much precedent need there be? The rules for correct and fair play are established and well documented. Brady broke them, lied about it repeatedly, and attempted significant efforts to hide and destroy evidence.

"Don't cheat" seems like sufficient documentation; stuff most of us learn as school children... and Brady's behavior is so unprecedented that it would seem to merit unprecedented punishment.

[RockThatBlue]

That water for Brady that pats fans carry must be really heavy.

[ViriLudant]

More evidence that Goodell is the liar.

Quote:

“They never asked for the actual device. Ted Wells, in his May 12 press conference actually said that -- he emphasized that. They didn’t want the actual device........They knew going into the March 6 hearing that they were not going to get the actual device. They knew that.

[ViriLudant]

I have a blatant bias too against cheating (and efforts to lie and cover up that cheating).

How much documentation should one really need to give, and how much precedent need there be? The rules for correct and fair play are established and well documented. Brady broke them, lied about it repeatedly, and attempted significant efforts to hide and destroy evidence.

"Don't cheat" seems like sufficient documentation; stuff most of us learn as school children... and Brady's behavior is so unprecedented that it would seem to merit unprecedented punishment.

Except no proof has been demonstrated that Brady did anything wrong. Let's not let silly little facts like that get in the way .

[jvan1973]

More evidence that Goodell is the liar.

Quote:

“They never asked for the actual device. Ted Wells, in his May 12 press conference actually said that -- he emphasized that. They didn’t want the actual device........They knew going into the March 6 hearing that they were not going to get the actual device. They knew that.

That has been known for awhile. They only wanted relevant texts. He failed to provide them

[MR. Blueblood]

Question: Is there anyway for a Commissioner to vote an owner out of the league, or for the other 31 teams to vote that owner out? Robert Kraft is publicly attacking the NFL and Roger Goodell. Why can't he keep those attacks behind closed doors? To me, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and let someone else step up.

I'm all for Brady getting his punishment for lying and cheating, but I just can't get behind this in any way.

 

Mr. Kraft is one of the best, if not the best, owners in the NFL.  He was crucial in working with the players union to even get the last CBA worked out and give us football back.  He is defending his team and the QB that has been the face of his franchise for well over a decade now.  I wouldn't expect much different than that from him.

 

Let me ask you this.....Your friend comes up to you and says hey your spouse of 15 yrs is cheating on you.  You turn to your spouse, who with a straight face, looks you in the eyes and tells you that your friend is full of it and that you shouldn't believe them as they never have cheated and never would cheat on you.  Do you defend your spouse or do you take what your friend told you as the truth and throw away 15ys of marriage?  In this case Mr. Kraft chose to defend his "spouse", some might not make that choice, but I can understand why he did.

 

Now it might be a different story if you asked your spouse for their phone so you could see if they were cheating and they decided to destroy it instead, but I hope you get my point. 

[Gramz]

I give up.

 

[schwamm]

Except no proof has been demonstrated that Brady did anything wrong. Let's not let silly little facts like that get in the way .

Yep. No evidence for global warming or evolution either, right?

[ViriLudant]

Read the NFLPA doc that I linked earlier.

It.

Is.

Outstanding .

Oh, and blows away, clear and simply, anything released by Goodell and Co.

Oh, and this will take place in Minny. Kessell associated this with the Peterson case (which is going to kill Goodell, since he's insisting that they are unrelated), and therefore it will have precedence over what the NFL did in NY.

[RockThatBlue]

Except no proof has been demonstrated that Brady did anything wrong. Let's not let silly little facts like that get in the way .

Post some facts then, not made up stuff.

[ViriLudant]

Yep. No evidence for global warming or evolution either, right?

Thanks again for proving my point.

[jvan1973]

Read the NFLPA doc that I linked earlier.

It.

Is.

Outstanding .

Oh, and blows away, clear and simply, anything released by Goodell and Co.

Oh, and this will take place in Minny. Kessell associated this with the Peterson case (which is going to kill Goodell, since he's insisting that they are unrelated), and therefore it will have precedence over what the NFL did in NY.

The location hasn't been set yet, another thing you spout without being fact.

But even if it is in Minnesota it won't be presided over by the pro union Doty. It will be Richard Kyle, a George H W Bush appointee. So they filed in Minnesota hoping to get Doty and it back fired. They would have been better off filing in Massachusetts

[schwamm]

Thanks again for proving my point.

You say this as if you've had anything resembling a point.

[buccolts]

I love Don Yee. A total sham as completely and totaled expected and I can't wait to see what Brady did provide ... get your popcorn ready!

I like your avatar.

" Look, nothing up my sleeve".

[backshoulderfade]

I am stupider for having read every page of this thread.

[jabbanobadda]

I swear....if a conversation between Brady and "amfootball" went down it would be like this....

 

Brady: I did it...I just didn't want to own up to it. I had the balls deflated it was all on me.

amfootball: The investigation was a total sham just like Yee said. They duped you into you really thinking you did it but you didn't do it.

Brady: Seriously...I really did do it. It really was me

amfootball: Tom...no it's not true. You've been brainwashed...it wasn't you and you didn't do it. I promise you didn't do it.

 

Best post ever?  Yes.

[AndreRison]

Patriots fans claiming there is no evidence, overlook the destroyed cell phone. The destroyed cell phone is evidence. There is no reason an arbitrator shouldn't look at a destroyed cellphone, on or around the day the investigators said they would need to see it, in the worst possible light.

Even if Brady is telling the truth, after first lying about destroying it. Even if it did just break, he knew they wanted to see contents of his text messages. He still would have a SIM card, where the text messsages could be retrieved. If he would then stand fast to his proclamation that he wouldn't show them anything so personal, instead of destroying it, he may have been able to get a court to disqualify his text messages. But, by destroying any trace of them, he left the arbitrator no choice but to conclude he destroyed the phone to cover up incriminating information about this case.

[AndreRison]

Also, if his lawyers told him to destroy the phone they could be disbarred.

If he doesn't destroy the phone, he almost assuredly could have kept his phone out of it. I don't think he would have been compelled to turn it over to investigators. Once he destroyed it, he pretty much sealed his fate, in the courts, and the court of public opinion.

It's funny. The cover up, not the cheating, will destroy any hope of coming out of this unscathed.

[southwest1]

tom brady makes tonya harding look like a rhodes scholar

Before I can really test your theory, I need to hear Tom Brady replicate Nancy Kerrigan's cry "Why? Why? Why?" 3 times very loud & have tears stream down his face to accurately judge your hypothetical re-enactment SDS. 

 

Hey, I was nice. I didn't include an actual crowbar. Tom Brady does come across as an enormous crybaby though so your analogy fits quite well SDS. Nice work. 

[southwest1]

Except no proof has been demonstrated that Brady did anything wrong. Let's not let silly little facts like that get in the way .

This case boils down to science vs non-compliance & I really don't see how the destruction of a phone [don't give me that nonsense of a phone exchange either] really puts Brady in the best cooperative light VL. 

[SteelCityColt]

Let me make one thing clear.. I'm thoroughly sick of this whole thing. I'm not celebrating Brady getting suspended 4 games, I'd have taken him getting a slap on the wrists if he'd put his hands up at the time and this could have all been done and dusted. He didn't even have to admit full complicity, just being generally aware that his guys would lower the ball PSI as much as they can. Heck with that he probably wouldn't have got any punishment. But no it's going to drag on now even longer 

 

But no, he, the organisation, and a large brigade of Pats fans continue to fight this with means both fair and foul. I mean the sheer arrogance shown is positively vomit inducing. 

 

Reading back though this topic some posters remind me of the methods used by another fanatical group... spin the facts, deflect the truth, ignore the inconvenient and discredit anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoints with liberal use of ad hominems, after all they must be "Fair Game"

 

I won't comment on which I find more believable, Tom Brady being totally innocent, or alien spirits in volcanoes... 

 

That being said I don't think some of our own fans are covering themselves in glory here either with their behaviour, 

[BPindy]

More evidence that Goodell is the liar.

Quote:

“They never asked for the actual device. Ted Wells, in his May 12 press conference actually said that -- he emphasized that. They didn’t want the actual device........They knew going into the March 6 hearing that they were not going to get the actual device. They knew that.

If you bothered to actually read all the replies instead of the ones you feel like you can nitpick, you would realize that no one is refuting what you just posted.

[southwest1]

Let me make one thing clear.. I'm thoroughly sick of this whole thing. I'm not celebrating Brady getting suspended 4 games, I'd have taken him getting a slap on the wrists if he'd put his hands up at the time and this could have all been done and dusted. He didn't even have to admit full complicity, just being generally aware that his guys would lower the ball PSI as much as they can. Heck with that he probably wouldn't have got any punishment. But no it's going to drag on now even longer 

 

But not, he, the organisation, and a large brigade of Pats fans continue to fight this with means both fair and foul. I mean the sheer arrogance shown is positively vomit inducing. 

 

Reading back though this topic some posters remind me of the methods used by another fanatical group... spin the facts, deflect the truth, ignore the inconvenient and discredit anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoints with liberal use of ad hominems, after all they must be "Fair Game"

 

I won't comment on which I find more believable, Tom Brady being totally innocent, or alien spirits in volcanoes... 

 

In addition I don't think some of our own fans are covering themselves in glory here either with their behaviour, 

I read ya SCC. The lengths some fans will go to defend their QB is both mind boggling & laughable. Remember NE fans it's only a 4 game suspension not death row okay. Relax. 

 

I just wish aliens would fly me & whoever else wants to hitch a saucer ride off this planet for awhile. It's like being surrounded by a think tank of devoted fans who live in a fact free zone. 

 

My advice to Brady: Stop with the I'm fighting for my innocence routine. It's like being accused of sleeping with another woman instead of your wife. Nobody believes you now & as much as you defiantly claim your innocence the stain of infidelity [cheating] is all that remains or what people will remember. 

 

I can't prove what went down, but as as future HOF QB, you can't tell me you were that aloof & absent minded to what was going on around you Brady. The feel of footballs is your bread & butter for over 10 years.