Coby Fleener leaving his mark

[TKnight24]

Most catches by #colts TE in 1st 3 years? John Mackey? Dallas Clark? Nope. Coby Fleener with 129. http://t.co/x0IF9ntmBU #indysportscentral

— Mike Chappell (@mchappell51)

June 26, 2015

[Steamboat_Shaun]

TKnight, haven't you heard? He sucks.

[SteelCityColt]

TKnight, haven't you heard? He sucks.

He's been shouting it the loudest

[TKnight24]

TKnight, haven't you heard? He sucks.

He's above average at this moment. He has the potential, just gotta get it out of him. I'm one of the people on the D. Allen bandwagon I'll admit. But since it appears Fleener can stay healthier than Allen, hopefully that forces Fleener to better himself

He's gotta stop with the wide open drops like he had against the Redskins. I wish Fleener could have that mean streak that Allen plays with, he'd be unstoppable gi end his body frame & athleticism

Again, I admit I'm definitely one of the ones calling for Fleener's head but I really hope he can silence me soon. I want that aggressive mentality/play from him

[pgt_rob]

Fleener is a great player. Allen may be more physical but it seems he cannot stay healthy. He may not be as bad but he reminds me of Ahmad Bradshaw. As much as I like him, health matters.

[Jason_]

He's above average at this moment. He has the potential, just gotta get it out of him. I'm one of the people on the D. Allen bandwagon I'll admit. But since it appears Fleener can stay healthier than Allen, hopefully that forces Fleener to better himself

He's gotta stop with the wide open drops like he had against the Redskins. I wish Fleener could have that mean streak that Allen plays with, he'd be unstoppable gi end his body frame & athleticism

Again, I admit I'm definitely one of the ones calling for Fleener's head but I really hope he can silence me soon. I want that aggressive mentality/play from him

 

Every receiver/tight end has a wide open drop from time to time.  Fleener's have been greatly exaggerated.

[21isSuperman]

If Fleener can become stronger and more physical, I could see him becoming Gronk-esque, where he could be almost unstoppable.  He's a size mismatch for anyone and his hands are good (though not great).

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Pep's offense is VERY TE friendly, but impressive none the less.

[Rackeen305]

Fleener and ty both need to learn how to bring in the football consistently/securely.

[Deano1818]

If Fleener can become stronger and more physical, I could see him becoming Gronk-esque, where he could be almost unstoppable.  He's a size mismatch for anyone and his hands are good (though not great).

 

Agree

 

The great TEs can catch the ball with people draped all over them 

 

Fleener needs to catch those balls, vs complaining to the refs.

 

 

 

To me, Jason Witten (2 years ago) was the role model for TEs

 

Tough as nails, and catches almost everything.... and can block

 

 

I have high hopes for Fleener, but lets be honest....... he has been used as a WR almost as much as a TE

 

His number of catches arent as impressive, when you constantly see him in the slot

 

 

I am hoping this is his year......  (Remember its his "money" year......)

[will426]

Every receiver/tight end has a wide open drop from time to time. Fleener's have been greatly exaggerated.

I don't think so everyone drops a wide open pass but he seems to drop wide open TD passes lol it's kinda funny sometimes when you get hyped up and assume he has the TD then he flat out drops it

[The Peytonator]

Hey, I like Fleener, I just like Dwayne Allen better. I like Allen better in the same way that I'd prefer Jason Witten over Julius Thomas.

[BOTT]

If Fleener can become stronger and more physical, I could see him becoming Gronk-esque, where he could be almost unstoppable.  He's a size mismatch for anyone and his hands are good (though not great).

Don't wait around for him to be gronk-esque....he's more of a finesse player.....and that's ok.

[Lawrence Owen]

Agree

 

The great TEs can catch the ball with people draped all over them 

 

Fleener needs to catch those balls, vs complaining to the refs.

 

 

 

To me, Jason Witten (2 years ago) was the role model for TEs

 

Tough as nails, and catches almost everything.... and can block

 

 

I have high hopes for Fleener, but lets be honest....... he has been used as a WR almost as much as a TE

 

His number of catches arent as impressive, when you constantly see him in the slot

 

 

I am hoping this is his year......  (Remember its his "money" year......)

perhaps he should do alot of practices with a corner and a lb covering him at the same time.  that way he can learn to catch in traffic, while expecting to be hit, and know he'll have to be physical just to bring it in.  

[lollygagger8]

He can't block, but he's not bad at catching. Most of the time.

 

Just don't pull this kind of crap and I won't have to throw things:

 

 

Just get consistent and I'll be happy. 

[RockThatBlue]

Fleener is criminally underrated by too many colts fans. Yes he has silly drops but he far from sucks too

[CroatianColtsFan21]

He can't block, but he's not bad at catching. Most of the time.

Just don't pull this kind of crap and I won't have to throw things:

Just get consistent and I'll be happy.

The funny (sad) thing is, fleener's drop isn't the worst effort on this play..

Look at harrison and right guard that's pathetic..

[21isSuperman]

Don't wait around for him to be gronk-esque....he's more of a finesse player.....and that's ok.

Yeah, I agree.  That's why I'd like to see him be more physical.  Maybe he can add 15-20 lbs of muscle to allow him to be a more physical and aggressive player.  He's currently 250 lbs, while Gronk is 265 lbs.

 

The funny (sad) thing is, fleener's drop isn't the worst effort on this play..

Look at harrison and right guard that's pathetic..

Just about got Luck killed

[throwing BBZ]

He's above average at this moment. He has the potential, just gotta get it out of him. I'm one of the people on the D. Allen bandwagon I'll admit. But since it appears Fleener can stay healthier than Allen, hopefully that forces Fleener to better himself

He's gotta stop with the wide open drops like he had against the Redskins. I wish Fleener could have that mean streak that Allen plays with, he'd be unstoppable gi end his body frame & athleticism

Again, I admit I'm definitely one of the ones calling for Fleener's head but I really hope he can silence me soon. I want that aggressive mentality/play from him

 

 Allen isn`t any meaner than the next guy. What a Joke!

  A wide open drop counts the same as any other drop, they happen. What a guy does over the season is ALL that matters.

 Get over it kid.

   I noticed Donny Avery had the same drop rate as Reggie (6.9%) the season after he left here.

  

The difference? A QB that throws on time and accurately.

Andrew had 40 drops last season and will continue being one of the league leaders until he more often gets the ball to his guys sooner, as they come out of their breaks, and at their numbers. Something he has been unimpressive at.

 Fleener should have had 15-20 more catches last season, but Luck Thrives on waiting for the long ball.

[Solon]

 Allen isn`t any meaner than the next guy. What a Joke!

  A wide open drop counts the same as any other drop, they happen. What a guy does over the season is ALL that matters.

 Get over it kid.

   I noticed Donny Avery had the same drop rate as Reggie (6.9%) the season after he left here.

  

The difference? A QB that throws on time and accurately.

Andrew had 40 drops last season and will continue being one of the league leaders until he more often gets the ball to his guys sooner, as they come out of their breaks, and at their numbers. Something he has been unimpressive at.

 Fleener should have had 15-20 more catches last season, but Luck Thrives on waiting for the long ball.

 

Are you trolling? 

[TKnight24]

Allen isn`t any meaner than the next guy. What a Joke!

A wide open drop counts the same as any other drop, they happen. What a guy does over the season is ALL that matters.

Get over it kid.

I noticed Donny Avery had the same drop rate as Reggie (6.9%) the season after he left here.

The difference? A QB that throws on time and accurately.

Andrew had 40 drops last season and will continue being one of the league leaders until he more often gets the ball to his guys sooner, as they come out of their breaks, and at their numbers. Something he has been unimpressive at.

Fleener should have had 15-20 more catches last season, but Luck Thrives on waiting for the long ball.

So Andrew Luck is the problem?

[Malakai432]

So Andrew Luck is the problem?

Of course he is, according to Throwing he's probably Mark Sanchez 2.0.

Negative poster is always negative.........

Makes me want to smash my face in.

[Deano1818]

Of course he is, according to Throwing he's probably Mark Sanchez 2.0.

Negative poster is always negative.........

Makes me want to smash my face in.

 Your hockey mask will protect you..........  

[gregr507]

I don't think fleener's problem is that he's physically not big/strong enough, I think it's that he plays soft. I usually don't like that term, but in his case it's pretty accurate. For as large of a man as he is, he seems afraid of contact. When's the last time you saw fleener run over a defender? Or truck a defender in run blocking? Or even aggressively win a jump ball? (In before someone posts a gif of the rare occasion he may do this type of thing, I'm speaking generally) I dunno, maybe that's why he's healthy and Allen isn't. I think he could have a lot of production if he started playing more like a tight end instead of a wide receiver. He has improved the drops though, I'm definitely glad about that.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

I don't think fleener's problem is that he's physically not big/strong enough, I think it's that he plays soft. I usually don't like that term, but in his case it's pretty accurate. For as large of a man as he is, he seems afraid of contact. When's the last time you saw fleener run over a defender? Or truck a defender in run blocking? Or even aggressively win a jump ball? (In before someone posts a gif of the rare occasion he may do this type of thing, I'm speaking generally) I dunno, maybe that's why he's healthy and Allen isn't. I think he could have a lot of production if he started playing more like a tight end instead of a wide receiver. He has improved the drops though, I'm definitely glad about that.

I agree.. Usually when he catches the ball, turns around, starts running down field, sees a cornerback or safety coming at him, it's more probable than not he'll just go out of bounds..

[GoColts8818]

While I still wouldn't rule out grigson finding away to keep both I do think if he has to pick at the end of the season he's going to keep Fleener over Allen. Fleener has proven to be healthier and has been extremely productive the past couple of years. He has really come on since his rookie year.

[GoColts8818]

I agree.. Usually when he catches the ball, turns around, starts running down field, sees a cornerback or safety coming at him, it's more probable than not he'll just go out of bounds..

marvin and Reggie used to make catches over the middle and get down right away for years. They put up two possible Hall of Fame careers. Just because you don't take a big hit doesn't mean you can't be a good player. Avoiding big hit does a few things.

1. Extends careers normally

2. Protects the football as big hits can lead to fumbles.

If Fleener gets out of bounds sometimes it's the smart play.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

marvin and Reggie used to make catches over the middle and get down right away for years. They put up two possible Hall of Fame careers. Just because you don't take a big hit doesn't mean you can't be a good player. Avoiding big hit does a few things.

1. Extends careers normally

2. Protects the football as big hits can lead to fumbles.

If Fleener gets out of bounds sometimes it's the smart play.

And t.y. hilton does it too.. But you can't compare 180 pound wide receivers to a 250 pound tight end..

And fleener doesn't do it sometimes, he does it every time..

[GoColts8818]

And t.y. hilton does it too.. But you can't compare 180 pound wide receivers to a 250 pound tight end..

And fleener doesn't do it sometimes, he does it every time..

so did Marvin and Wayne. Again, it worked fine for them this is a none issue and silly to hold against Fleener but if people want to then so be it.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

so did Marvin and Wayne. Again, it worked fine for them this is a none issue and silly to hold against Fleener but if people want to then so be it.

Why are we going in circle? Again, a 180 pound wr is ok to protect himself from a 210-220 pound safety, but a 250 pound tight end?! When you add his inability to block, that's weak..

[Smonroe]

He can't block, but he's not bad at catching. Most of the time.

 

Just don't pull this kind of crap and I won't have to throw things:

 

 

Just get consistent and I'll be happy.

Shhh. It happens.

[BOTT]

I agree.. Usually when he catches the ball, turns around, starts running down field, sees a cornerback or safety coming at him, it's more probable than not he'll just go out of bounds..

If he is running along the sidelines he should just go out of bounds. Or he could be like Ken Dilger who always lowered his shoulder and took unnecessary hits and suffered numerous concussions.

[GoColts8818]

Why are we going in circle? Again, a 180 pound wr is ok to protect himself from a 210-220 pound safety, but a 250 pound tight end?! When you add his inability to block, that's weak..

hes pretty much like Clark was for the Colts who took bruttle shots over the middle. What did that get him? Hurt and turnovers. He wasn't drafted to block. He was drafted to stretch the field. So saying Fleener can't block is like saying Peyton manning can't scramble. While true it's not what you drafted him to do.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

hes pretty much like Clark was for the Colts who took bruttle shots over the middle. What did that get him? Hurt and turnovers. He wasn't drafted to block. He was drafted to stretch the field. So saying Fleener can't block is like saying Peyton manning can't scramble. While true it's not what you drafted him to do.

He's a tight end, he was definitely drafted to block, as well as catch passes.. I bet the colts would agree..

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I don't think so everyone drops a wide open pass but he seems to drop wide open TD passes lol it's kinda funny sometimes when you get hyped up and assume he has the TD then he flat out drops it

 

A lot of wide open TD passes?  He dropped a TD pass vs. Jacksonville and what may have been a TD pass vs. Washington (#25 was closing in fast and Luck underthrew that ball, had Fleener caught it, he might have been tackled before crossing the goal line).  He caught 8 TD passes on the year.  He averaged over 15 yards a reception and only had 5 total drops on the season (one of which was a TD drop, and one was the wide-open drop vs. Washington).  He has very good hands for a TE, in the past 2 years he has been very durable and has only 6 drops, which is one of (maybe even the) best drop rates in the league per the amount of balls that get thrown his way.

 

He can't block, but he's not bad at catching. Most of the time.

 

Just don't pull this kind of crap and I won't have to throw things:

 

 

Just get consistent and I'll be happy. 

 

This was a big drop, but it isn't like it happens all the time for him.  2 years ago, he had 1 drop out of over 50 catchable balls.  This past season he was targeted 92 times, caught 51 balls and had 5 drops.  Yes, 2 of the drops were bad, but he also had plenty of very good catches -- many other TE's in the league have higher drop rates than him, unfortunately, he just had that one wide open drop that people can pick apart (in fact, two years ago, he was 2nd in the league for best hands for a TE -- see link below, I can't find 2014's ratings).

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/25/sig-stats-drop-rate-tes/

 

 Allen isn`t any meaner than the next guy. What a Joke!

  A wide open drop counts the same as any other drop, they happen. What a guy does over the season is ALL that matters.

 Get over it kid.

   I noticed Donny Avery had the same drop rate as Reggie (6.9%) the season after he left here.

  

The difference? A QB that throws on time and accurately.

Andrew had 40 drops last season and will continue being one of the league leaders until he more often gets the ball to his guys sooner, as they come out of their breaks, and at their numbers. Something he has been unimpressive at.

 Fleener should have had 15-20 more catches last season, but Luck Thrives on waiting for the long ball.

 

Give Andrew a better line and better WRs and he might not have to extend plays so much.  The past 2 years after Reggie got hurt, we had one of the weakest WR groups in the league -- when TY lost Reggie 2 years ago the only WRs he had to take heat off him in 2013 were -- Darrius Heyward-Bey, LaVonn Brazill, DaRick Rogers, and Whalen (Rogers and Brazill showed some flashes, Whalen is a poor man's backup slot WR) and in 2014 were -- Nicks, Moncrief, and Whalen (Moncrief started showing signs later in the year but he was raw and a rookie who wasn't ready in the beginning of the year).  Our run games and OL were pretty terrible both years.  Pretty hard to not extend plays if you're Luck in those circumstances.

 

While I still wouldn't rule out grigson finding away to keep both I do think if he has to pick at the end of the season he's going to keep Fleener over Allen. Fleener has proven to be healthier and has been extremely productive the past couple of years. He has really come on since his rookie year.

 

I think this will depend a lot of Swoope's development and what is available next year (plus Allen/Fleener's health).  To date, Fleener has stayed healthier than Allen, but Allen only missed 3 games after coming off season ending hip surgery the year before last -- another year away from that and hopefully he is back to a 16 game guy -- 8 TD's in 13 games is pretty darn impressive, especially for a TE.  Anyway, if a guy like Swoope shows he can be a big time receiving threat, it makes Allen more valuable than Fleener as Allen is a more all-around TE compared to Fleener who is better at stretching the field than Allen but not much else.

[GoColts8818]

He's a tight end, he was definitely drafted to block, as well as catch passes.. I bet the colts would agree..

he was not drafted to be a primary blocker there is nothing to suggest that is his strength. He was drafted to be another passing weapon for Luck. The Colts do know this which is why they drafted and Allen and signed Doyle who are much better blockers but can't stretch the field like Fleener. It's why they come in and Fleener comes out in situations where they mainly want the tightend to block,

[Smonroe]

If Fleener can become stronger and more physical, I could see him becoming Gronk-esque, where he could be almost unstoppable.  He's a size mismatch for anyone and his hands are good (though not great).

I don't think he has the body type to be Gronk-esque. Have you seen him in street clothes?

But I agree, he's a mismatch, very tough to gameplan against. Their D's best option is to force him to block. And, personally, I think he's improved there too. No Allen, but definitely not a liability anymore.

[Valpo2004]

Fleener is highly underrated on here.  I believe he's in the top 10 both in 2013 and 2014 of receiving yards among TE's.

 

He's actually pretty good.  His rookie year was forgettable.  But after that he's been solid to above average. 

[Surge89]

Fleener is highly underrated on here.  I believe he's in the top 10 both in 2013 and 2014 of receiving yards among TE's.

 

He's actually pretty good.  His rookie year was forgettable.  But after that he's been solid to above average. 

 

This.

 

Fleener was pretty bad his Rookie year.  But since then he has vastly improved in blocking and very consistent in the pass catching ( he was a bit of a turnstile in his rookie year).  Allen while I love him and I see him as potential to be a great TE has shown butterfingers last year and the inability to stay on the field.  Plus Hamilton's scheme, I think is sterotyping these 2 a bit.  I feel the offense would be much more fluid and both players seen in a better light if they'd alternate responsibilities instead of having Fleener pretty much a constant at the slot or flex and Allen on jumbo in line.  But then again that is just my opinion but I see both players able to adequately fill for each other with Fleener being the slightly better pass catcher and Allen the slightly better blocker. 

[Valpo2004]

This.

 

Fleener was pretty bad his Rookie year.  But since then he has vastly improved in blocking and very consistent in the pass catching ( he was a bit of a turnstile in his rookie year).  Allen while I love him and I see him as potential to be a great TE has shown butterfingers last year and the inability to stay on the field.  Plus Hamilton's scheme, I think is sterotyping these 2 a bit.  I feel the offense would be much more fluid and both players seen in a better light if they'd alternate responsibilities instead of having Fleener pretty much a constant at the slot or flex and Allen on jumbo in line.  But then again that is just my opinion but I see both players able to adequately fill for each other with Fleener being the slightly better pass catcher and Allen the slightly better blocker. 

 

I feel somewhat sorry for Allen.  I think his stock has dropped because this year they kept him back to block.

 

He played a full year if I remember right, they just didn't send him on too many routes.

 

And ultimately TE's get paid for receiving yards more then they do blocking ability.