Donte Moncrief will have a better season than Phillip Dorsett.

[jskinnz]

Touche. I see the Dorsett pick as an admission by the scouts and coaches that they were not satisfied by Moncrief's rate of progression. They picked him because they are convinced he will have a large impact on what we hope is a Superbowl season.

Ya'll might see it differently, I am just looking at it from Grigson's perspective. He doesn't pick Dorsett in the first rd if he doesn't think it is an improvement over what we already have.

Yeah I don't think that is close to accurate.

[CanuckColt]

"Donte Moncrief will have a better season than Phillip Dorsett."

 

Yes, I think so.

[akcolt]

Don't remember Grigson saying this but do remember him saying he won't draft character issue concern players in the early rounds so he basically limited himself to Dorsett and maybe a few others

 

I hope Moncrief improves vs The Pats he zero catches in both games combined .

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Depends on how we're evaluating what constitutes a better season. What if Moncrief has 4 more receiving TDs over the season with the offense, but Dorsett has 2 or 3 returns for TDs on either PR or KR?

[BrentMc11]

I hope the entire receiving core stays health and learns the system.  I will then worry about who gets the playing time.  Will Andre have His nagging injuries?  Hilton with his physique going to get the big hit.

 

I would be the happiest Colt fan watching if guys like Moncrief, Dorsett, Brown or Carter step up in times of need...too excited to see these guys         !!!

[horseshoeblue22]

Colts General Manager Ryan Grigson says he and coach Chuck Pagano are on the same page about one thing heading into the draft: They need players who make an immediate impact on the field.

 

“I want playmakers. Chuck wants playmakers. We need playmakers,” Grigson said.

 

There’s been talk that Grigson and Pagano may not be on the same page, but Grigson stressed that they’re both in agreement about getting players who can start. Grigson even said the Colts believe they can find starters late in the draft, and he said he doesn’t agree with those who think the third day of the draft is just about roster depth.

 

“If you want to get a bunch of backups in the fifth through seventh, that’s your prerogative, but we’re trying to get guys who are at least trending toward starters,” Grigson said.

 

Grigson and Pagano may want instant-impact playmakers in part because they’re heading into lame-duck years on their contracts and know that they need to show they’re keeping the Colts competitive if they’re going to keep their own jobs.

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/23/grigson-pagano-and-i-agree-colts-need-playmakers/

 

“This just shows that we stick to our guns when it comes to taking our best player on our board,” Grigson said, via the Indianapolis Star. “It’s not just party talk.”

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/01/ryan-grigson-on-picking-phillip-dorsett-we-took-our-best-player-available/

 

“We really try not to draft anybody that you see as a backup. And there are a lot of different philosophies that you need depth. I want playmakers. I know Chuck wants playmakers. We need playmakers."

 

 

http://ind.scout.com/story/1540360-ryan-grigson-on-draft-you-just-never-know

 

 

"They are looking to win the Super Bowl -- right now," Herremans said last week. "The players they brought in are immediate impact players."

Grigson isn't merely trying to close the gap on the Patriots in the wake of their dramatic Super Bowl XLIX victory over the Seattle Seahawks. Having presided over three playoff appearances and a trio of 11-5 regular seasons since taking over as GM in January of 2012, with a steady progression of postseason achievement, he's openly gunning for the sport's biggest prize.

"The directive I get from my owner (Jim Irsay) -- and all of the motivation driving my decisions -- is to win it all," Grigson said. "He wants to win the Super Bowl, and that is my mission. That's why I'll keep searching for players, whether it's a big-name free agent or a guy from the CFL or some small college. I'll be looking under every rock, and trying to find a way to make us better.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000480431/printable/ryan-grigson-has-indianapolis-colts-targeting-super-bowl-50

 

A week before the draft, Grigson had mentioned how the Colts needed playmakers and how they were likely going to take the best player available.  So based on that criteria, the pick of Dorsett makes sense.  He's incredibly fast and definitely fits that "playmaker" mold, and Grigson mentioned tonight that Dorsett was the best player left on their board.

 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/5/1/8527399/phillip-dorsett-was-the-highest-player-left-on-the-colts-draft-board-2015-nfl-draft

 

After rookie minicamp and a round of OTAs, the Colts couldn't be happier with their speedy first-round choice.

 

"He looks really good," coach Chuck Pagano said of his initial impressions, via The Herald Bulletin. "He's really fast. He's got really good hands. He's really smart. He's picked things up. He looks really good."

 

So far, so good. Dorsett believes he's picking up Hamilton's scheme quickly.

 

After dialing up a few deep throws to his new weapon, Andrew Luck noted that "it's definitely not too big for him. ... He fits in very, very well."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000493951/article/phillip-dorsett-already-impressing-indianapolis-colts

 

--

 

In summary, Ryan Grigson wants:

1. Players who are going to make an immediate impact.

2. Guys who won't be "backups".

3. "Playmakers", which generally refers to offensive skill position players.

4. To win the Superbowl in 2015.

5. To get a contract extension with the Colts.

6. Phillip Dorsett.

 

There's nothing there to suggest Dorsett is a pick with the future in mind. No general manager is going to use a 1st round pick on a guy that has three better options already ahead of him. Especially not a GM in a "lame duck" year. If Grigson isn't cool with a backup in round 5, why in the world would he draft a backup in round one?

 

 That is all speculation based on the WRs we already have on the roster. Moncrief averaged 27 yards a game over the first half of the season. He got more snaps over the second half of the season, and averaged 27 yards a game. He was on the field nearly every snap over our three playoff games, and averaged 27 yards a game. I don't care what Luck's passer rating was throwing to Moncrief. If he wasn't open, Luck wasn't throwing him the ball.

 

If you base your argument on a per snap basis, you must think ATL's Antone Smith is the top RB in the NFL. You must think Joseph Randle is a better RB than DeMarco Murray.

 

Moncrief has all the physical ability in the world, but is it really that hard to imagine the front office likes the rook more than this guy?

[Superman]

In summary, Ryan Grigson wants:

1. Players who are going to make an immediate impact.

2. Guys who won't be "backups".

3. To win the Superbowl in 2015.

4. To get a contract extension with the Colts.

5. Phillip Dorsett.

 

There's nothing there to suggest Dorsett is a pick with the future in mind. No general manager is going to use a 1st round pick on a guy that has three better options already ahead of him. Especially not a GM in a "lame duck" year. If Grigson isn't cool with a backup in round 5, why in the world would he draft a backup in round one?

 

Moncrief has all the physical ability in the world, but is it really that hard to imagine the front office likes the rook more than this guy?

 

You should listen to Grigson's actual presser to get context. The part about backups is out of context. Go to about the 9:15 mark in the video and you'll hear what he actually said: http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Colts-GM-Ryan-Grigson-Pre-Draft-Press-Conference/ca622777-8b99-4f0d-a466-6328b8c656ed

 

We really try not to draft anybody that you see as a backup.... I want playmakers... we need playmakers.... If you want to get a bunch of backups from 5th to 7th, that's your prerogative, but we want guys that are at least trending toward being potential starters, or at least a significant role player.

 

In other words, they don't want to draft a guy that they don't think can eventually become a starter or a significant role player. He wasn't saying that they expect everyone they draft to start right away, or even contribute right away. That's counter to logic, given the available starting spots on the roster.

 

Grigson would draft a player who isn't going to start right away because he thinks he's the best player on the board, and will eventually be a starter / playmaker. You've argued that Dorsett was BPA, and now you're saying that Grigson drafted him based on need. I feel like you're changing your tone to suit your argument.

 

And no, it's not that hard to imagine the front office likes Dorsett more than Moncrief; that's partly why one was a first rounder and the other was a third rounder. That's a separate issue, though. And 'we like Dorsett more than Moncrief' doesn't mean 'we're not happy with Moncrief.'

 

Edit: Go to 13:30 in the video.

Say we're deep at a spot, but there's an undeniable talent there, then you can call us stockpilers.

That applies directly to the Dorsett pick, IMO.

[Superman]

I see your side and everything you say is valid. Guess I'm just arguing the other one. In reality, it is projecting stats based on 1 year in the league when the team won't look the same from a personnel standpoint next year. There's not a right or wrong way to do it and any argument is going to have holes.

 

The Colts are no doubt flush with pass catchers, but if Hilton or AJ is injured for a significant amount of time, we will be happy as fans to have that depth, which is why I didn't mind the Dorsett pick at all.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Moncrief/Dorsett thing shakes out by the end of the season. By no means do I think Dorsett was picked because the FO and staff were down on Moncrief. If I had to bet (assuming no significant injuries to WRs), I think them as a combo will be similar to the Fleener/Allen combo last year. If you combine their stats into a single player, said player had one heck of a season, but when viewed separately, neither statistically lit the world on fire. And that's not at all a bad thing. 

 

Yeah, projecting future stats is a tough thing to do. I was just wondering where you were coming from.

 

As for the WR position, we thought we were in great shape the past two years, and come December, that wasn't the case. If Moncrief and/or Dorsett are able to cruise until they're needed later in the season, that isn't a bad thing. Hopefully, though, they both contribute and make the offense better overall. If we had a third WR who could produce against the Pats, maybe we pick up a first down and keep the game from getting out of control in the third quarter. Not that I'm overly concerned with the Pats, but having a better receiving corps isn't in any way counterproductive, IMO. I would have preferred to do something else at #29, but I definitely see Dorsett as being a valuable piece now and in the future.

[LockeDown]

From virtually every interview I've listened to or seen with Allen, it seems he wants to be a major focal point for our offense and I don't blame him.  Everyone (including national analysts like I saw last week) sings his praises.   Injuries kind of ruined it for him, but now that he's healthy, he is just too good to sit back there and only block.  He's a playmaker that really should be used more than Dorsett or Moncrief, imo.  

[ColtsLegacy]

From virtually every interview I've listened to or seen with Allen, it seems he wants to be a major focal point for our offense and I don't blame him. Everyone (including national analysts like I saw last week) sings his praises. Injuries kind of ruined it for him, but now that he's healthy, he is just too good to sit back there and only block. He's a playmaker that really should be used more than Dorsett or Moncrief, imo.

Allen should without a doubt be used more than Dorsett or Moncrief. When at 100% he's an elite all around TE. His rookie season was not a dream or an anomaly.

[horseshoeblue22]

You should listen to Grigson's actual presser to get context...snip.

Every GM, every draft pick ever made was a player who the scouts thought could or would contribute at one point or another. Can you imagine it any other way?

Beat Writer: Grigson, what do you think of Billy Thirdstring, LB out of ABC State, who you picked in the 3rd round?

Grigson: Well, no way he ever sees the field unless every single LB on the team gets hurt. We just hope he finds a spot on the bench he really likes, so he can sit there for the remainder of his career.

Nobody drafts "career backups" with the intention of being a career backup. Everyone is expected to contribute, but sometimes draft picks dont pan out. "We don't want career backups" is an obvious statement. Its like saying "We don't want busts." I think Grigson ideally wanted each pick to at least compete for a starting job, and to do it sooner rather than later.

Even disregarding Grigson's comments, hes on the last year of his contract. Its awful risky on his end, if he chose to use a number 1 pick on some future proposition. I wouldn't say WR was a "need" with that pick, but Moncrief certainly isnt irreplacable.

Dorsett was BPA, according to Grigson, according to multiple sources. I think its reasonable to suggest that he represented the greatest improvement available as well. By that I mean, the staff feel Dorsett has a better chance at earning a starting role (beating out Moncrief for slot WR) than Malcom Brown did (beating out Jones or Langford) or Landon Collins did (beating out Adams or Lowery) or any other player available.

I didnt listen to the interview. Maybe the articles I posted took them out of context, but again...no GM looking for an extension is going to burn a 1st rd pick if they are convinced the guy won't earn a starting role.

Everything Grigson has said, before and after the draft, seems to indicate that he is convinced Dorsett will earn a starting role. And obviously, to put Dorsett (or any young player) on the field they have to take another player off. Its reasonable to conclude that player would be Moncrief. All playing time Dorsett gets will come directly at the expense of Moncrief, Johnson, and TY...or at least guys like Carter and Brown in 4WR sets.

I'm just not convinced the front office trust Moncrief to take a major step forward with the SB on the line, or at least have more trust in vets like Jones, Langford, Chapman and Lowery to hold down their spots against any of the defensive players that were on the board.

That's not to say they don't like Moncrief, they just like Dorsett more.

That's not to say Moncrief is not a talented player, he is, but Dorsett is better.

If they didn't think he was better than TY, Andre, or Moncrief than there is no way they can justify picking a WR4 in the first round. Not when their necks are on the line seeking extensions.

If you were in Grigson's shoes, would you risk your job by using a first rd pick on a kid who couldnt crack the starting lineup now, but would be a future asset?

(Note: Edited for more clarification.)

[Superman]

If they didn't think he was better than TY, Andre, or Moncrief than there is no way they can justify picking a WR4 in the first round. Not when their necks are on the line seeking extensions.

If you were in Grigson's shoes, would you risk your job by using a first rd pick on a kid who couldnt crack the starting lineup now, but would be a future asset?

 

I don't think Grigson's neck is on the line, and I don't think he's risking his job. This premise is one that I disagree with, fundamentally.

 

I think he drafted the player that he thinks was best, and he anticipates that player eventually being a big time contributor. I don't think it's smart to draft based on who you think will play the biggest role right now without regard for whether that player will be a long term contributor. I think Grigson's drafting is based on the assumption that he'll continue to be the GM for many years, not based on a possibility/fear that he won't be extended. That's why you take BPA, because you expect him to be a good player for a long time, not because you expect him to save your job this year.

 

To me, it's very simple: Dorsett was their favorite player on the board, by a long shot, far ahead of the rest of the players at positions of bigger perceived need, and they didn't have good trade offers, so they stuck to their board and drafted BPA. It's what Grigson said he was going to do all along, and it's what he did. I don't think it's a referendum on the players we already had, and I don't think it says anything about either Grigson's view of his job or what kind of role he thinks Dorsett has to play in 2015. 

[horseshoeblue22]

Then I suppose we just disagree. I don't know how Grigson feels about his job security. Maybe he's comfortable moving forward, maybe hes on the edge of his seat. No one knows.

But if there is anything that is going to cost him his job, its the perception that he "wasted" another 1st round pick after he "wasted" 1sts on TRich and Werner.

And I don't think thats just my opinion, thats reality.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Guys, this is kinda silly.  We're comparing apples to oranges here.  Dorsett and Moncrief are different sized players that are going to play different roles depending on the offense on the field.

 

It's like y'all are assuming Pep won't utilize 4WR sets where BOTH are on the field at the same time... or AJ or TY won't get gassed at some point and BOTH Dorsett and Moncrief are on the field for a base formation... or AJ won't suffer yet another injury forcing a 3WR set of TY, Moncrief, and Dorsett...

 

All the recievers are different, and not exactly "interchangable", so injuries and opposing defenses will really dictate how the season shakes out for ALL the receivers.  For all we know, teams will follow Belichicks' recipe and TY gets doubled every game, leading to Moncrief and Dorsett BOTH having "better" seasons than TY.

[ColtsLegacy]

Then I suppose we just disagree. I don't know how Grigson feels about his job security. Maybe he's comfortable moving forward, maybe hes on the edge of his seat. No one knows.

But if there is anything that is going to cost him his job, its the perception that he "wasted" another 1st round pick after he "wasted" 1sts on TRich and Werner.

And I don't think thats just my opinion, thats reality.

If Grigson is drafting certain players over others because he's worried about his job security than he probably will end up getting himself fired. And, if anything, Dorsett is a luxury pick, whether you think he's better than Moncrief or not, so that would put Grigson' butt even more in the line.

[horseshoeblue22]

If Grigson is drafting certain players over others because he's worried about his job security than he probably will end up getting himself fired. And, if anything, Dorsett is a luxury pick, whether you think he's better than Moncrief or not, so that would put Grigson' butt even more in the line.

And you don't think Grigson at least considered the perception that Dorsett is a luxury pick before he turned in the card? If he had any doubts about the kid, Grigson would have or should have passed, given the circumstances.

[ColtsLegacy]

And you don't think Grigson at least considered the perception that Dorsett is a luxury pick before he turned in the card? If he had any doubts about the kid, Grigson would have or should have passed, given the circumstances.

That goes for any pick. You pick the player you feel will be the best player in the long run. That's what Grigson did. Period.

[BProland85]

Dorsett is more talented. I like Moncriefs size tho, just needs to fill out his frame and add some muscle LBS. Otherwise we have a fantastic 4 man deep WR corps. Not to mention the possibilities of Duron C. I don't see the point in saying who will have the better season, they both play for our Colts. I think they'll both get their fair share of plays in. Can't wait to see Dorsetts speed.

I'm not quite sure Dorsett is more talented than Moncrief. Remember Moncrief was considered a physical freak at WR with his size/speed/leaping ability. The only thing Dorsett is said to be better at is his hands.

[horseshoeblue22]

That goes for any pick. You pick the player you feel will be the best player in the long run. That's what Grigson did. Period.

Unless you've talked to Grigson directly about his thought process going into the draft...your speculation is as good as mine.

You can't pick a guy in the first round with the intention of having him sit on the bench all year and see how it goes from there. Grigson, by picking Dorsett, expects Dorsett to be on the field and to make an impact.

That's how I see it. If you see it differently, we disagree. Were all Colts fans, but we're allowed to disagree. I feel like I've spent more than enough time backing my opinion on this subject. I've presented all sorts of stats, relevant articles and "proof" that backs my point of view. You can choose to ignore or discredit this information, thats up to you.

It seems I'm not changing your mind, and you're not changing mine.

[horseshoeblue22]

I'm not quite sure Dorsett is more talented than Moncrief. Remember Moncrief was considered a physical freak at WR with his size/speed/leaping ability. The only thing Dorsett is said to be better at is his hands.

Many scouting profiles also label Dorsett as a very polished route runner, and he has exceptional lateral agility as well, and excels at making cuts. Really the only thing Moncrief is better at is being three inches taller.

[ColtsLegacy]

Unless you've talked to Grigson directly about his thought process going into the draft...your speculation is as good as mine.

You can't pick a guy in the first round with the intention of having him sit on the bench all year and see how it goes from there. Grigson, by picking Dorsett, expects Dorsett to be on the field and to make an impact.

That's how I see it. If you see it differently, we disagree. Were all Colts fans, but we're allowed to disagree. I feel like I've spent more than enough time backing my opinion on this subject. I've presented all sorts of stats, relevant articles and "proof" that backs my point of view. You can choose to ignore or discredit this information, thats up to you.

It seems I'm not changing your mind, and you're not changing mine.

 

I never said or implied Grigson doesn't expect production from Dorsett this year. I said Grigson drafted Dorsett because he felt Dorsett would be the best player in the long run. You don't draft for short term, you draft for the long term. Dorsett is clearly a long term pick. That doesn't mean he won't see the field this year, but realistically, it will be limited due to the crowded group he has joined.

[Colts_Fan12]

Dorsett will be a solid slot receiver in Indy. But OBJ hands are so much better than Dorsetts. It may be close if OBJ had one hand tied behind his back. Even so I still think he would be better.

I was being sarcastic the board seems to think Dorsett is the greatest thing since sliced bread

[ColtsLegacy]

I was being sarcastic the board seems to think Dorsett is the greatest thing since sliced bread

 

For the most part, I've seen pretty normal excitement/expectations for a 1st round WR. You're being dramatic.

[Superman]

Then I suppose we just disagree. I don't know how Grigson feels about his job security. Maybe he's comfortable moving forward, maybe hes on the edge of his seat. No one knows.

But if there is anything that is going to cost him his job, its the perception that he "wasted" another 1st round pick after he "wasted" 1sts on TRich and Werner.

And I don't think thats just my opinion, thats reality.

 

If anything costs Grigson his job, it won't be "perception." It will be actually wasting picks, and no one thinks that's the case with Dorsett, whether he plays a significant role in 2015 or not. (I shouldn't say no one; some people feel that Dorsett is a wasted pick because he's not a DT or a safety; I disagree with that thinking and dismiss it as narrow-minded and shortsighted.)

 

You've built up this argument on the premise that Grigson is trying to save his job, and that must mean that he's relying on Dorsett to be a fantastic pick right away so he can get a new contract. (At this point, I'll remind you that the Colts have a fifth year option on Grigson's contract, so he's not really lame duck at this point.) Now, you don't know how Grigson feels about his job security... And all I'm saying is that whether Grigson is worried about his job or not, it doesn't make sense to make shortsighted draft picks. It makes sense to take the best players he can, that's what he said he was going to do -- seriously, if you ever watch that presser I linked to, he practically telegraphs the Dorsett pick at the 13:30 mark -- and that's what he wound up doing.

[horseshoeblue22]

If anything costs Grigson his job, it won't be "perception." It will be actually wasting picks, and no one thinks that's the case with Dorsett, whether he plays a significant role in 2015 or not. (I shouldn't say no one; some people feel that Dorsett is a wasted pick because he's not a DT or a safety; I disagree with that thinking and dismiss it as narrow-minded and shortsighted.)

 

You've built up this argument on the premise that Grigson is trying to save his job, and that must mean that he's relying on Dorsett to be a fantastic pick right away so he can get a new contract. (At this point, I'll remind you that the Colts have a fifth year option on Grigson's contract, so he's not really lame duck at this point.) Now, you don't know how Grigson feels about his job security... And all I'm saying is that whether Grigson is worried about his job or not, it doesn't make sense to make shortsighted draft picks. It makes sense to take the best players he can, that's what he said he was going to do -- seriously, if you ever watch that presser I linked to, he practically telegraphs the Dorsett pick at the 13:30 mark -- and that's what he wound up doing.

 

Yeah, and if he telegraphed the pick, why are so many Colts fans in shock and awe over it? I created the first topic in response to the hysteria that was created when he made the selection. If Dorsett doesn't make a significant impact this year, fans will be clamoring on about "SEE! I told you we should have picked Malcom Brown/Landon Collins/Eddie Goldman! Fireeeeeeeeee Grigson!"

 

Grigson went against the grain a little bit with this pick. Some fans are okay with it, some are not. My OP was directed mostly to the fans that weren't okay with it. I never said Grigson doesn't or shouldn't expect production out of Moncrief. Just that I believe he expects more out of Dorsett at this point.

 

Either way, Dorsett wasn't the "safe" pick for Grigson's job security. It may pan out for him, but one of the defensive players would have satisfied all of the upset fans we have now. If he passes on the defensive guys now, then that is at least an indication, to me, that he thinks Dorsett can have a significant impact this year. Maybe not more significant than Moncrief's impact, exactly, but a significant one nonetheless.

[Jay Kirk]

I hope the entire receiving core stays health and learns the system.  I will then worry about who gets the playing time.  Will Andre have His nagging injuries?  Hilton with his physique going to get the big hit.

 

I would be the happiest Colt fan watching if guys like Moncrief, Dorsett, Brown or Carter step up in times of need...too excited to see these guys         !!!

I like Moncrief for his hands size mixed with the speed , if healthy will be a beast . As I recall Pagano has the same outlook.Not to mention we are loaded at WR.

[BrentMc11]

I like Moncrief for his hands size mixed with the speed , if healthy will be a beast . As I recall Pagano has the same outlook.Not to mention we are loaded at WR.

Moncrief is really strong and can go north and south.  I like the way he has done that instead of trying to 'juke' CBs....he seems to really like the contact.

[Superman]

Yeah, and if he telegraphed the pick, why are so many Colts fans in shock and awe over it? I created the first topic in response to the hysteria that was created when he made the selection. If Dorsett doesn't make a significant impact this year, fans will be clamoring on about "SEE! I told you we should have picked Malcom Brown/Landon Collins/Eddie Goldman! Fireeeeeeeeee Grigson!"

 

Grigson went against the grain a little bit with this pick. Some fans are okay with it, some are not. My OP was directed mostly to the fans that weren't okay with it. I never said Grigson doesn't or shouldn't expect production out of Moncrief. Just that I believe he expects more out of Dorsett at this point.

 

Either way, Dorsett wasn't the "safe" pick for Grigson's job security. It may pan out for him, but one of the defensive players would have satisfied all of the upset fans we have now. If he passes on the defensive guys now, then that is at least an indication, to me, that he thinks Dorsett can have a significant impact this year. Maybe not more significant than Moncrief's impact, exactly, but a significant one nonetheless.

 

The fan hysteria about this pick is nothing surprising, nor is it a gauge for whether the pick was good for the team. Fan reaction certainly isn't going to decide Grigson's job status, now or in the future.

 

My original response to you was 'don't sell Moncrief short just because you want to defend the Dorsett pick.' And that's because you spent three or four posts talking about how overrated Moncrief is, and then ran back to the bunker of your self-proclaimed objectivity to fend off anyone who disagreed with you. And my point was, setting Dorsett aside, Moncrief is a really good talent and a high level prospect.

 

On top of that, I find it ironic that you've argued for Dorsett as BPA, but are now ignoring that, along with Grigson's comments/context, to say that picking Dorsett is a referendum on Moncrief. Like I said earlier, Grigson's comments about stockpiling at a deep position because they don't want to pass on an "undeniable talent" explain the Dorsett pick very simply. The rest of your argument is entirely speculative, and in the face of evidence to the contrary.

[Jay Kirk]

Moncrief is really strong and can go north and south.  I like the way he has done that instead of trying to 'juke' CBs....he seems to really like the contact.

 

Physical WRs we now have , and to myself that's a major plus , when you go against a NE type secondary that likes to rough you up.

[Jay Kirk]

The fan hysteria about this pick is nothing surprising, nor is it a gauge for whether the pick was good for the team. Fan reaction certainly isn't going to decide Grigson's job status, now or in the future.

 

My original response to you was 'don't sell Moncrief short just because you want to defend the Dorsett pick.' And that's because you spent three or four posts talking about how overrated Moncrief is, and then ran back to the bunker of your self-proclaimed objectivity to fend off anyone who disagreed with you. And my point was, setting Dorsett aside, Moncrief is a really good talent and a high level prospect.

 

On top of that, I find it ironic that you've argued for Dorsett as BPA, but are now ignoring that, along with Grigson's comments/context, to say that picking Dorsett is a referendum on Moncrief. Like I said earlier, Grigson's comments about stockpiling at a deep position because they don't want to pass on an "undeniable talent" explain the Dorsett pick very simply. The rest of your argument is entirely speculative, and in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I really like Moncrief and folks forget Dorsett hasn't played a down in this league.

[BrentMc11]

 

Physical WRs we now have , and to myself that's a major plus , when you go against a NE type secondary that likes to rough you up.

And....let Dorsett and TY run by them too?  Johnson may not run like he used to, but with our TEs and speed...I cannot wait.    

[Jay Kirk]

And....let Dorsett and TY run by them too?  Johnson may not run like he used to, but with our TEs and speed...I cannot wait.    

Dorsett has decent hands and one thing you cant teach blazing world class speed . IMO his biggest impact this year will be in the return game. 

[BrentMc11]

Dorsett has decent hands and one thing you cant teach blazing world class speed . IMO his biggest impact this year will be in the return game. 

I think that we need to see how everything plays out and training camp.  Injuries may come in.  He can return kicks and punts.  We do need to see him in the passing game....Just in case TY heads out of town for more money than we can give him.

[Jay Kirk]

I think that we need to see how everything plays out and training camp.  Injuries may come in.  He can return kicks and punts.  We do need to see him in the passing game....Just in case TY heads out of town for more money than we can give him.

Oh I do believe he will be involved in 4 WR sets.

[Jay Kirk]

IMO  the 4 WR set giving Luck gets the pass protection spells total nightmares for opposing  defenses.

[horseshoeblue22]

The fan hysteria about this pick is nothing surprising, nor is it a gauge for whether the pick was good for the team. Fan reaction certainly isn't going to decide Grigson's job status, now or in the future.

My original response to you was 'don't sell Moncrief short just because you want to defend the Dorsett pick.' And that's because you spent three or four posts talking about how overrated Moncrief is, and then ran back to the bunker of your self-proclaimed objectivity to fend off anyone who disagreed with you. And my point was, setting Dorsett aside, Moncrief is a really good talent and a high level prospect.

On top of that, I find it ironic that you've argued for Dorsett as BPA, but are now ignoring that, along with Grigson's comments/context, to say that picking Dorsett is a referendum on Moncrief. Like I said earlier, Grigson's comments about stockpiling at a deep position because they don't want to pass on an "undeniable talent" explain the Dorsett pick very simply. The rest of your argument is entirely speculative, and in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I am not selling Moncrief short. I labeled him as a guy who is a world class athlete who averaged 27 yards a game. Thats what he is, or least was last year. I am not sugar coating it.

Calling Dorsett BPA is fine, but I expect him to make an impact this year. So does Grigson and the staff. Maybe that comes at Moncrief's expense.

Yes, I am speculating. You are speculating. Everyone is speculating. Its the offseason, man, what else is there to do on the Colts forums this time of year? Post about deflated footballs?

[horseshoeblue22]

I said picking a WR in the first could be an indication that they think Moncrief is not progressing quickly enough. Thats how I see it, key words being "could" and "indication". Its not rock solid evidence. Why would they be concerned with his progression? I spelled it out already. He averaged 27 ypg. First half of season 27 ypg. Second half, 27 ypg. Playoffs, 27 ypg. HE DID NOT IMPROVE. Even with more snaps, he did not improve.

As far as Grigsons job security, Irsay will make that decision and fan support will directly influence it. If Dorsett only catches 5 passes, and we go 11-5 again, fans will want Grigsons head. If we pick Malcom Brown and he only makes 5 tackles, thats okay, because Grigson picked the guy everyone else in the world expected him to.

Moncrief had zero catches vs NE in two games. He was a wildly inconsistent performer. I expect him to improve, he has outstanding athleticism, yes, but the expectations are higher with Dorsett.

Why assume the staff is happy with 27 ypg guy?

[Superman]

I am not selling Moncrief short. I labeled him as a guy who is a world class athlete who averaged 27 yards a game. Thats what he is, or least was last year. I am not sugar coating it.

Calling Dorsett BPA is fine, but I expect him to make an impact this year. So does Grigson and the staff. Maybe that comes at Moncrief's expense.

Yes, I am speculating. You are speculating. Everyone is speculating. Its the offseason, man, what else is there to do on the Colts forums this time of year? Post about deflated footballs?

 

If you're really that bored, why not actually listen to Grigson's presser so that you can stop taking his comments out of context?

[Superman]

I said picking a WR in the first could be an indication that they think Moncrief is not progressing quickly enough. Thats how I see it, key words being "could" and "indication". Its not rock solid evidence. Why would they be concerned with his progression? I spelled it out already. He averaged 27 ypg. First half of season 27 ypg. Second half, 27 ypg. Playoffs, 27 ypg. HE DID NOT IMPROVE. Even with more snaps, he did not improve.

As far as Grigsons job security, Irsay will make that decision and fan support will directly influence it. If Dorsett only catches 5 passes, and we go 11-5 again, fans will want Grigsons head. If we pick Malcom Brown and he only makes 5 tackles, thats okay, because Grigson picked the guy everyone else in the world expected him to.

Moncrief had zero catches vs NE in two games. He was a wildly inconsistent performer. I expect him to improve, he has outstanding athleticism, yes, but the expectations are higher with Dorsett.

Why assume the staff is happy with 27 ypg guy?

 

Is this seriously your criticism of Moncrief?

 

1) The 27 yards/game is incredibly disingenuous, as is the statement that he didn't improve. 

 

2) Moncrief being inconsistent as a rookie who was WR4 most of the season isn't exactly newsworthy, nor is it unexpected, nor should it blind any of us to his incredible potential.

 

3) Once upon a time, a Pro Bowl WR who is second all time in Colts history in every major statistical category was held to 1 catch, 1 yard, in a playoff game. He was covered by Darrelle Revis. The same Darrelle Revis who covered Donte Moncrief in both games against the Patriots last season. So are we criticizing a rookie receiver for not being productive against the best cover corner in the game? Really?

 

4) Your argument that picking Dorsett in the first is an indication about how the staff feels about Moncrief (and the WR corps in general) undermines your argument that Dorsett was picked based on BPA. You can't have both. (It also ignores what Grigson said he would do in the draft.)

 

5) Grigson's job security isn't based on fan support. It's just not. This isn't speculation. Irsay will not determine how to handle Ryan Grigson on the basis of how fans on the Internet feel about him.

[Superfly Jay]

Of course the expectations are higher for Dorsett than Moncrief. They used a first round pick on him. The pick itself has nothing to do with Moncrief's progression, or lack of, as you claim. Moncrief was thrown into the fire when Reggie was out there looking like robocop, and Nicks just didn't have it. He will get better. Don't think for a second he's not looking over his shoulder, with Dorsett lurking in the shadows to take his spot. You like the Dorsett pick, that's cool. But they didn't draft him because Moncrief was unproductive either. Think about when Bradshaw, Allen, and Wayne went down last season. Grigs is making sure we're not in the same situation again. Not only did he draft a wr and rb, but he also got fa's in both positions. You can never have enough weapons in your arsenal.