Am I the only Colts fan who thinks Luck gets too much credit for the teams success?

[aaron11]

 it seems every GM in the league has come out and claimed they were interested in Russell Wilson.

that might actually  be true.  even teams that dont need a QB still put a lot of effort into scouting them.  did you see the patriots leaked report on johnny manziel?

 

i think the back up plan if we didnt get a top 2 pick, was to pass on ryan tannehill and take wilson in the second or third.  we almost took him to back up luck if you can believe this report from espn

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/10spot-12week14/what-seattle-picked-russell-wilson-adam-schefter-10-spot

[ColtsBTM12]

You are wrong. Your arguments are pretty much garbage and not really worth going thru point by awful point.

BUT, I noticed you are yet another that blames Luck for the Colts getting in a hole against the Chiefs when that clearly wasn't the case. Did people actually watch that game or do they just repeat cramp from forums?

It annoys me when people say that Luck put us in that 28 point hole with his turnovers when in reality he threw his first INT when we were already down 31-10.

[horseshoeblue22]

It annoys me when people say that Luck put us in that 28 point hole with his turnovers when in reality he threw his first INT when we were already down 31-10.

 

I was more referring to the fact that he could only put up 10 points in the first half, and only 3 after the opening drive. Several times in the first half the Colts failed to sustain drives, forcing the defense back onto the field. If you give Luck the credit for the second half turnaround, you have to also give props to the defense that came out in the second half of that game and looked outstanding, despite Luck throwing 3 interceptions. Hilton broke franchise playoff records with 13 catches and 224 yards, on 18 targets. He also caught two TDs in that game. He caught the game winner. You have to give him props for that.

 

Luck didn't dig that hole on his own, but he also didn't dig his way back out of it on his own.

 

 

 

Put an REAL OL in front of Andrew Luck...       and I do not care who the skill guys are...     I DONT

 

And then put a REAL STRONG DL on D......        Stop the run and get the QB.....     We will see... 

 

But a mobile QB like Andrew will make ANY WR look good..

 

 

Thank you for providing the perfect example of what I am disputing. Luck hasn't been able to make "ANY WR look good". Hakeem Nicks was much more productive playing with Eli Manning than he was here in Indy. DHB was a lost cause, and Luck wasn't able to save him. Donnie Avery, Griff Whalen, Da'Rick Rogers, the list goes on. Very average receivers that have looked like very average receivers catching passes from Luck.

 

Reggie Wayne, Ahmad Bradshaw and TY, and to a lesser extent Fleener, Allen and Moncrief are the only WRs/pass catchers that have looked "Good" in the past few years for us, and it's not Andrew making them look "good"...it's Andrew making them look "better."

 

I said Watt makes their front better than ours. I'd rather have the superstar surrounded by contributing defenders. We have one, they have the other. All told, I'd rather have what they have. You can find/replace contributors, but the star is what the contributors all orbit around.

 

Watt may make their front better then ours, I'll give you that...but our front isn't the strength of our defense. Our secondary is the strength of our defense, and Pagano has built our pieces around our secondary. Our secondary is MUCH better then Houston's, I don't even think you can argue against that.

 

And you can try to make the argument that a shutdown corner is just as valuable as a DL like Watt, but you won't get very much mileage out of that one. If the Texans offered Watt for Davis right now, everyone would take that deal as fast as possible.

 

 

OK, I'll bite. I'll attempt to make that argument. Keep in mind, I think Watt is the best defensive player in the league, possibly the best non-quarterback player in the league...if you are evaluating players in a vacuum. The thing is, you can't really do that in the NFL.

 

For argument's sake: JJ Watt is a 3-4 Defensive End, he is rushing from the interior, unlike a OLB who rushes from the edge. But Watt is still the "designated pass rusher" of the Texans, like Mathis was our "designated pass rusher" in 2013, and Dwight Freeney was for us before that. Meaning, the bltzes and stunts that the Texans employ are designed to free up Watt and counter any double team blocks that are attempting to slow him down. In that sense, Watt is unlike any other 3-4 End in the league, because he is the only one asked to be the primary pass rusher. A 3-4 end is typically asked to hold blocks and allow the linebackers to make plays behind him. In that sense, the Texan's 3-4 scheme is unlike any other 3-4 scheme in the league.

 

Trading Vontae Davis for JJ Watt: Generally a pass rusher is seen as a more "premier" position than a CB. In a vacuum, Watt is a "better player" then Vontae Davis. But as far as making the swap, I wouldn't be so quick to close the deal...and I expect the coaching staff would see it the same way. I made the point earlier that Pagano has chosen to make the secondary the focal point of our defense. Everything we do on that side of the ball is determined by the play of our press corners and the safeties behind them.

 

Adding JJ Watt is certainly enticing, but we already have Cole, Newsome, Mathis, and to a lesser extent Walden and Werner to play the "designated pass rusher" role. They are all OLBs, yes...but we don't ask our 3-4 ends to play like JJ Watt plays. JJ would be an instant upgrade over Arthur Jones or Kendall Langford, but it is not reasonable to expect him to produce 20+ sacks and all the raw production he's responsible for playing for the Texans. His role would change, and his production would likely suffer.

 

Now if you remove Vontae Davis from our secondary, that puts Greg Toler in the role of our number 1 corner. When Davis went down a few games last year, it was quite evident Toler is not suited to play #1 CB. If he played this role for 16 games, we would be giving up a ton of pass yards when we stick to our "bread and butter" - the press man coverage. That puts third-round rookie D'Joun Smith in the #2 corner role, who is very inexperienced. I like what I've seen from Smith so far, but there's little indication yet that he can be an every down player this early. Darius Butler, who's getting up there in age, is best suited for slot corner, but we have next to no one behind these three guys. Most fans are expecting the team to move on from Toler next offseason, but if we trade Davis, we would almost be forced into extending Toler and giving him #1 CB money...which would be a terrible mistake

 

Add to that the contract figures of both Davis and Watt. Davis just signed a 4 year extension, with an average annual payout of 9.75 million. Watt just signed a 6 year deal, making him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history, with an average annual payout of 16.6 million. Never-minding the fact that we wouldn't currently be able to fit Watt into our salary cap, would you rather have Watt or Vontae Davis+another 7 million in available cap space? For comparison sake, in 2015 we are getting Davis, Trent Cole, and Jonathan Newsome at roughly the same cost as one JJ Watt.

 

Do I make that deal? Maybe, but we have absolutely no replacement for Davis, so I would ultimately decline.

 

Would the Seahawks trade Richard Sherman for JJ Watt?

 

The Seahawks are in roughly the same boat the Colts are in. They couldn't afford to keep Browner, Walter Thurmond or Byron Maxwell in recent years, so their corner depth could struggle going forward. They have no issues getting after the QB with guys like Avril, Bennett, and Irvin. They play a 4-3 front, so Watt would have to play out of position. While he would still be a player with elite talent, It's fair to say he wouldn't be as productive playing in their 4-3 front as he is playing in Houston. Sherman is irreplaceable on the Seahawks right now, another defense predicated on their ability to play press-man coverage. I don't make this deal either.

 

Would the Jets trade Darrelle Revis for JJ Watt?

 

Watt is much younger then Revis, I'll give you that. But Revis is fair and away the best corner on the Jets, a team that was desperate to improve their secondary this offseason. JJ Watt plays 3-4 End, and the Jets play a 3-4, so he would be a great fit here, right? Except the Jets already have Sheldon Richardson. They already have Mohammad Wilkerson, and they just picked up the best 3-4 end available in the draft, Leonard Williams. JJ is a better player then all three of these guys, but it's the law of diminishing returns. Revis on the back-end helps them more then having another DE in the rotation. I don't make this deal either.

 

Would the Broncos trade Chris Harris Jr. for JJ Watt?

 

The Broncos are another team that runs a 4-3 front. They have DeMarcus Ware. They have Von Miller. They gave up some goods to move up for Shane Ray. Watt might fit in here, but he would likely play DT for this team, and positional transition is not always the easiest thing in the NFL. Harris posted the best year out of any CBs in 2014, according to Pro Football Focus, and he is only making 8.5 million dollars annually. He earns about HALF as much as Watt is earning on a yearly basis. When you are talking a sport with a salary cap, then those numbers are very significant. I don't make this deal either.

 

Is a higher premium placed on a pass rusher than is placed on a cornerback?

 

Generally, yes. Ask all 32 defensive coordinators around the league if they would rather have a corner like Sherman or a rusher like Watt, the majority would likely say Watt. But I think at least 5-10 of those coordinators would place a greater emphasis on the corner, based on the rosters they are currently dealing with. The Rams, for example, have more then enough talent on their defensive line, but the secondary continues to struggle. I would bet St Louis would pass on "the Watt" and add "the Sherman" in this scenario.

[Superman]

Watt may make their front better then ours, I'll give you that...but our front isn't the strength of our defense. Our secondary is the strength of our defense, and Pagano has built our pieces around our secondary. Our secondary is MUCH better then Houston's, I don't even think you can argue against that.

 

I firmly believe that a defense with a good front and a mediocre secondary has an advantage on a defense with a good secondary and mediocre front. Our secondary is no doubt better. But Watt is a difference maker that no one can hold a candle to, and because he's so close to the ball, his impact far outweighs that of any DB in the league.

 

I'm picking at some of the rest of your post:

 

1) Watt is unlike any other 3-4 DE because he's better than any other 3-4 DE.

2) I disagree that the staff has chosen to stress the secondary. I think, by coincidence, they've done a better job of finding difference makers in the secondary. That's not surprising, since good DBs are easier to find than good DL, to say nothing of a player like Watt. That doesn't mean they've made a specific effort to build the defense from the back end first.

 

3) Not only is Watt more than just a great pass rusher, he's one of the best run defenders in the league. Your thoughts about how he'd fit with the rest of our personnel are misplaced, IMO. If we had JJ Watt and then changed his role, the staff should be fired.

4) Your thoughts about replacing Davis are also off. First, he's easier to replace than Watt. Second, with a MUCH better defensive front, our secondary personnel wouldn't need to be as good. Third, you don't make Toler your #1 and pay him that way; you find a new #1. Easier said than done, but still nowhere near as difficult as finding a player like Watt.

5) As for the pay difference, Watt makes much more than Davis for all the reasons I've listed. And we absolutely have the cap space to take Watt's contract right now, and every year for the rest of his deal, even after Luck gets paid. That's without getting rid of Davis. I can break this down, or you can trust me on it.

6) All those teams you listed would absolutely trade their #1 corners for Watt, in a heartbeat. Sherman, Revis, Harris, anyone. The Texans would laugh at any of those offers. If you're not a QB, you're tradeable for Watt. And there are 15-20 QBs that are tradeable for Watt.

7) The Rams are an outlier. They already have a highly disruptive (and expensive) defensive front with two or more high quality players, and are missing talent in the secondary. There's a diminishing return for them in adding someone like Watt, and they'd probably get more value out of lockdown corner (not Sherman, but Revis, Harris or Davis, sure). We are NOT the Rams. We'd get far more value out of Watt than a lockdown corner.

We've veered off into a dream world. My point is just that Watt makes the Texans front much better than ours, despite the auxiliary pieces, and because he's so good, having a front like theirs is better than having a secondary like ours.

[horseshoeblue22]

 

I firmly believe that a defense with a good front and a mediocre secondary has an advantage on a defense with a good secondary and mediocre front. Our secondary is no doubt better. But Watt is a difference maker that no one can hold a candle to, and because he's so close to the ball, his impact far outweighs that of any DB in the league.

 

I'm picking at some of the rest of your post:

 

1) Watt is unlike any other 3-4 DE because he's better than any other 3-4 DE.

 

I agree, I said Watt, in a vacuum, is the best defensive player in the league.

2) I disagree that the staff has chosen to stress the secondary. I think, by coincidence, they've done a better job of finding difference makers in the secondary. That's not surprising, since good DBs are easier to find than good DL, to say nothing of a player like Watt. That doesn't mean they've made a specific effort to build the defense from the back end first.

 

Pagano's background is working with the defensive secondary. I don't think it's a coincidence that our secondary is better then our front seven. We drafted D'Joun Smith before drafting a lineman like Henry Anderson, for example. We traded for Vontae Davis before we traded for a similar pass rusher, for example. We have spent a lot more resources on building a secondary full of veteran players. You may disagree, but I see it as a specific effort to build a defense around the secondary.

 

3) Not only is Watt more than just a great pass rusher, he's one of the best run defenders in the league. Your thoughts about how he'd fit with the rest of our personnel are misplaced, IMO. If we had JJ Watt and then changed his role, the staff should be fired.

 

In a dream world where we add Watt, and ask him to be the primary pass rusher on our defense, we are essentially asking the rest of the front to change their role around him. Newsome, Mathis and Cole are much better at rushing the passer than any other role that we could give them in our defense. We can only have so many designated pass rushers, so we would be asking our OLBs to cover pass routes or do something that is not their natural strengths.

4) Your thoughts about replacing Davis are also off. First, he's easier to replace than Watt. Second, with a MUCH better defensive front, our secondary personnel wouldn't need to be as good. Third, you don't make Toler your #1 and pay him that way; you find a new #1. Easier said than done, but still nowhere near as difficult as finding a player like Watt.

 

Watt is one of a kind, he's a better pass rusher than any other player in the league. But I think there are a larger number of effective pass rushers in the league than there are top level corner corners. Press man coverage is a trend that isn't going away, and corners that can play press-man on an island are only going to become harder and harder to find.

5) As for the pay difference, Watt makes much more than Davis for all the reasons I've listed. And we absolutely have the cap space to take Watt's contract right now, and every year for the rest of his deal, even after Luck gets paid. That's without getting rid of Davis. I can break this down, or you can trust me on it.

6) All those teams you listed would absolutely trade their #1 corners for Watt, in a heartbeat. Sherman, Revis, Harris, anyone. The Texans would laugh at any of those offers. If you're not a QB, you're tradeable for Watt. And there are 15-20 QBs that are tradeable for Watt.

 

I'm not so sure it's as cut and dry as you believe. All of the teams I mentioned need their top corner more than they need a top pass rusher at this point. Seahawks, Jets, and Broncos have already spent a lot of resources in establishing a productive pass rush. Removing their top corner would be a major setback, one I am not sure is off-set by the addition of JJ Watt.

7) The Rams are an outlier. They already have a highly disruptive (and expensive) defensive front with two or more high quality players, and are missing talent in the secondary. There's a diminishing return for them in adding someone like Watt, and they'd probably get more value out of lockdown corner (not Sherman, but Revis, Harris or Davis, sure). We are NOT the Rams. We'd get far more value out of Watt than a lockdown corner.

 

You wouldn't consider the Jets an outlier in this scenario as well? Richardson, Wilkerson, and Williams are an outstanding set of 3-4 Ends. Some people thought they should pass on Williams because he will mostly be a backup/rotational player in the short term. If the Jets added a Watt, then Leonard Williams barely gets on the field. They have an outstanding, disruptive and expensive defensive front as well. Before this offseason (where they added Revis, Skrine, and Cromartie) their talent in the back-end was well below average. Revis represents more value to the Jets then another End would, even one like JJ Watt.

We've veered off into a dream world. My point is just that Watt makes the Texans front much better than ours, despite the auxiliary pieces, and because he's so good, having a front like theirs is better than having a secondary like ours.

 

Some coordinators chose to emphasize the back-end more then the front seven. Not many, but there are a few. For example, would you rather have the Rams defensive front, or the Seahawks secondary of Chancellor, Earl Thomas and Sherman? I don't think there's a universal answer to that question. It comes down to the preference of the coordinator(s) in question. I understand and agree with most of your points. My point was only "the defense is better than it gets credit for" which you stated you understand and agree with that point. This thread is getting terribly off topic. 

[Superman]

Pagano's background is working with the defensive secondary. I don't think it's a coincidence that our secondary is better then our front seven. We drafted D'Joun Smith before drafting a lineman like Henry Anderson, for example. We traded for Vontae Davis before we traded for a similar pass rusher, for example. We have spent a lot more resources on building a secondary full of veteran players. You may disagree, but I see it as a specific effort to build a defense around the secondary.

 

I don't think drafting Smith over Anderson is because we value the secondary more. It's because Smith was the higher rated player overall. Drafting is about adding the best players for your team, not a referendum on what positions you value more (with some exceptions). And when we traded for Davis, we had one corner with noteworthy experience, and he was injury prone, whereas we had Freeney, Mathis and Hughes as pass rushers. One position was a need, the other was already pretty well stocked.

 

In a dream world where we add Watt, and ask him to be the primary pass rusher on our defense, we are essentially asking the rest of the front to change their role around him. Newsome, Mathis and Cole are much better at rushing the passer than any other role that we could give them in our defense. We can only have so many designated pass rushers, so we would be asking our OLBs to cover pass routes or do something that is not their natural strengths.

 

I don't understand this. Adding Watt doesn't change anyone's role, because none of the guys you mentioned play the same position as him. It only enhances their role as edge rushers to have a great interior rusher attracting attention.

 

I'm not so sure it's as cut and dry as you believe. All of the teams I mentioned need their top corner more than they need a top pass rusher at this point. Seahawks, Jets, and Broncos have already spent a lot of resources in establishing a productive pass rush. Removing their top corner would be a major setback, one I am not sure is off-set by the addition of JJ Watt.

 

We'll just agree to disagree on that one.

 

Watt is one of a kind, he's a better pass rusher than any other player in the league. But I think there are a larger number of effective pass rushers in the league than there are top level corner corners. Press man coverage is a trend that isn't going away, and corners that can play press-man on an island are only going to become harder and harder to find.

 

Players like Watt are harder to find than lockdown corners. Let's not water this down.

 

You wouldn't consider the Jets an outlier in this scenario as well?

Yeah, you can probably throw the Jets in there. The other issue is that Revis is older than Watt and makes almost as much money. Maybe a toss-up, but in a vacuum, Watt >> Revis. 

 

For example, would you rather have the Rams defensive front, or the Seahawks secondary of Chancellor, Earl Thomas and Sherman?

 

Again, let's not water this down. The question is would I rather have the Texans front or the Colts secondary. You know the answer. But even the scenario above isn't really that hard to decide, IMO. Give me the Rams front.

[Chucklez]

Thank you for providing the perfect example of what I am disputing. Luck hasn't been able to make "ANY WR look good". Hakeem Nicks was much more productive playing with Eli Manning than he was here in Indy. DHB was a lost cause, and Luck wasn't able to save him. Donnie Avery, Griff Whalen, Da'Rick Rogers, the list goes on. Very average receivers that have looked like very average receivers catching passes from Luck.

 

Reggie Wayne, Ahmad Bradshaw and TY, and to a lesser extent Fleener, Allen and Moncrief are the only WRs/pass catchers that have looked "Good" in the past few years for us, and it's not Andrew making them look "good"...it's Andrew making them look "better."

 

 

Watt may make their front better then ours, I'll give you that...but our front isn't the strength of our defense. Our secondary is the strength of our defense, and Pagano has built our pieces around our secondary. Our secondary is MUCH better then Houston's, I don't even think you can argue against that.

He said put a real O-line in from of Luck and then Luck can make any WR look good... You cant mention any WR luck has played with yet as examples of him failing to make any WR look good, because Luck hasnt had the stout O-line to pass block for him. 

If you give ANY QB more than 5 seconds to throw the ball, I dont care if it is a PS player against Revis... Eventually that WR will break free and the QB can leisurely pass them the ball. Success in the NFL starts in the Trenches. Andrew is just that good that he has done as well as he has with the shoddy lines he has had to deal with to date.

[horseshoeblue22]

The Texans OLBs are not asked to be pass rush specialists like they are in Indy. You change the role of the DE and in turn you change the responibilities of the OLBs around him.

There is one 3-4 DE "like Watt". There are maybe 4 or 5 shut down corners. But in general there are more "great" pass rushers in the NFL then there are "great" press man corners. Thats why guys like Maxwell get big contracts. Davis is not easily replacable without spending top dollar in FA or using a top draft pick.

Chucklez, our line is not as bad as many people think. We have spent considerable resources to improve it. Drafting Holmes, Thorton and Mewhort. Adding Thomas, Cherilus and Herramans in FA, among others. Injuries have set us back, but injuries are out of the FO's control. Its not like Grigson has totally ignored the offensive line.

[MJS87]

Lets face it, the Colts have been a 1 man franchise since 1998. The only time we didn't have our 1 man, we finished 2-14. Im afraid that Luck will make Grigson look way better than he really is the same way that Manning did it for Polian, while he wasted draft after draft with picks like Ugoh, Gonzalez, Angerer, Hughes, Moala, Pollack, etc. The verdict is still out on Grigson, but it seems like he already wasted one top draft pick on Werner. QB is obviously the most important player on a football team and we went from 2-14 to three straight years of 11-5 with him at the helm. Andrew could throw for 4k yards with almost any set of NFL WRs. The money would be much better spent on an actual defense. 

[horseshoeblue22]

Lets face it, the Colts have been a 1 man franchise since 1998.

Lets face it, you're wrong. Since 1998 we have had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Brandon Stokely, Pierre Garcon, Marcus Pollard, Tarik Glenn, Jake Scott, Jeff Saturday, Bob Sanders, Gary Brackett, Cato June, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea, Jerry Hughes, Vontae Davis, Dqwell Jackson, Mike Adams, TY Hilton, Edgerrin James, Dominic Rhodes, Ahmad Bradshaw, Coby Fleener, Anthony Castonzo, Jerrell Freeman, Dwayne Allen, Mike Vanderjagt, Adam Vinitieri, Hunter Smith, and Pat McAfee have all contributed solid seasons for this team. Some of these players are considered NFL greats.

I am sure I missed a few worth mentioning, but do I really have to go on?

[ThatOneColtFan]

Of course you're not, but without Luck we'd probably be the Browns.

[Chucklez]

The Texans OLBs are not asked to be pass rush specialists like they are in Indy. You change the role of the DE and in turn you change the responibilities of the OLBs around him.

There is one 3-4 DE "like Watt". There are maybe 4 or 5 shut down corners. But in general there are more "great" pass rushers in the NFL then there are "great" press man corners. Thats why guys like Maxwell get big contracts. Davis is not easily replacable without spending top dollar in FA or using a top draft pick.

Chucklez, our line is not as bad as many people think. We have spent considerable resources to improve it. Drafting Holmes, Thorton and Mewhort. Adding Thomas, Cherilus and Herramans in FA, among others. Injuries have set us back, but injuries are out of the FO's control. Its not like Grigson has totally ignored the offensive line.

I agree with you, but at the end of the day Luck has been scrambling around and is one of the most hurried and most hit QB's in the league for the last three years. Yes we have tried to put those pieces in place for him, but whether it was through injury or players not panning out, that O-Line has been mixed and matched more than any other in the NFL since Luck arrived. Lack of consistency has made it one of the worst lines in the league. I'm not saying they are bad players, but the circumstances have made it that way.

[horseshoeblue22]

Luck has been scrambling around and is one of the most hurried and most hit QB's in the league for the last three years.

 

And some of that comes down to the offensive play calling. Some of that comes down to the personnel. But some of that also falls on Luck. Peyton Manning was working behind a fairly mediocre line his last couple years in Indy, but he was still consistently one of the least sacked quarterbacks in the league in that time. That is because Manning was so great at quick decision making and getting the ball out before the defense got to him. I think the average time between snap and throw for Manning was something like 2.8 seconds. The defense had no time to rush him, by the design of the offense. New England's offensive line was really struggling the first half of 2014, but you didn't see Brady getting sacked and hit all of the time. That can be credited to his quick release and constant short passes. Luck throws and completes more deep passes than any other quarterback in the league. Deep pass routes take time to develop, and the line has to hold their blocks for much longer.

 

I give credit to Luck's toughness for being willing to stand in there until the last second and get the ball out, but a lot of of the hits he takes are unnecessary. At times, he needs to be more willing to take the short throw and let his receivers make the run after the catch. If no one is open, and the rushers are in pursuit...Luck needs to be more willing to throw the ball away instead of taking the big hit or the sack. How often does Luck throw the ball away? Very rarely. He doesn't need to be throwing the ball deep on nearly every play.

 

Too often, it seems like he is pressing. It's something young quarterbacks do all of the time, they try to get it all on one play. This contributes to the sacks, the hits, the pressures and the turnovers. Once Luck improves this aspect of his game, watch out. But until then, Luck could stand to improve his decision making.

 

Sure, the offensive line could stand to improve as well. Hopefully we can shake off this injury bug and get guys like Donald Thomas, Khaled Holmes and Gosder Cherilus healthy and keep them on the field. We have enough talent for a capable offensive line, but we need to let them "gel" together and get that experience. We are still a young team, especially on the offensive line. No one should expect instant results from these young players, especially when Thomas, Holmes, Cherilus, and Thorton have all dealt with various injuries over the last two years. We have just as much talent on the line as at least half the teams in the league. Lack of consistency can be contributed directly to the number of injuries we have faced over the last couple of years.

 

The offensive line gets a lot of flak because they couldn't make a productive back out of Trent Richardson. But Trent Richardson had absolutely no burst. He could never break through the line of scrimmage, let alone break through the second level of the defense on a long run. Every other back that has run behind this line has been relatively productive. Bradshaw, Herron, Ballard and Donald Brown have all had good average yards per carry in their time here in Indy. The run blocking hasn't been "bad". The lousy running back we traded a first round pick for has been "bad".

[BOTT]

I though I had heard it all until I read someone wouldn't trade Chris Harris for JJ Watt. I could imagine the look on Bum Jr's face if Elway told him he passed on that deal......

[horseshoeblue22]

I though I had heard it all until I read someone wouldn't trade Chris Harris for JJ Watt. I could imagine the look on Bum Jr's face if Elway told him he passed on that deal......

Harris had one of, if not the best, seasons out of all NFL corners last season...and he is making half of what Watt is making. Denver couldnt even make that deal if they wanted to. They dont have the cap room to do it without cutting another contributor or two. If they add Watt then Shane Ray barely gets on the field and becomes a wasted investment. Denver does not play a 3-4 defense. With Watt, they would either have to switch to a 3-4 immediately or ask him to play 4-3 DE or DT.

Houston is not going to trade Watt, so all this discussion is kind of pointless. My point is that Watt is not guaranteed to be as productive on another team (with new players, new coaches, and new schemes) as he is in Houston. Houston's 3-4 defense is the only defense in the league that asks a 3-4 end to be the primary rusher. Most cases with a 3-4 defense, the OLB is the "joker" or the "leo" or whatever you want to call it. Projecting Watt's impact on another team isn't that simple.

[BOTT]

Harris had one of, if not the best, seasons out of all NFL corners last season...and he is making half of what Watt is making. Denver couldnt even make that deal if they wanted to. They dont have the cap room to do it without cutting another contributor or two. If they add Watt then Shane Ray barely gets on the field and becomes a wasted investment. Denver does not play a 3-4 defense. With Watt, they would either have to switch to a 3-4 immediately or ask him to play 4-3 DE or DT.

Houston is not going to trade Watt, so all this discussion is kind of pointless. My point is that Watt is not guaranteed to be as productive on another team (with new players, new coaches, and new schemes) as he is in Houston. Houston's 3-4 defense is the only defense in the league that asks a 3-4 end to be the primary rusher. Most cases with a 3-4 defense, the OLB is the "joker" or the "leo" or whatever you want to call it. Projecting Watt's impact on another team isn't that simple.

Bum Jr was the defensive coordinator in Houston when the Texans drafted what......he loves the kid.

[luvdacolts67]

Nah, I am glad we drafted Luck and moved on from Manning. But this "QB does it all by himself" narrative has been around the Colts for over a decade. In 2006, when the Colts last won the Superbowl, it was "Peyton Manning and everyone else" back then too. You would have thought he was out there making every tackle, every catch, every kick all by himself. It doesn't matter how great your quarterback is, you aren't getting to the playoffs, let alone the AFC Championship without the other players pulling weight. Football is the ultimate team sport, and no team gets by simply by the effort of one player...no matter what the media wants you to believe.

I agree with this.  This is why I believe Peyton ist the GOAT even though he has only won one SB as compared to Brady;s 4.

[horseshoeblue22]

Bum Jr was the defensive coordinator in Houston when the Texans drafted what......he loves the kid.

Ha, didn't even think of that. I don't think Wade Phillips is making the personnel decisions in Denver though. From the sound of it, they love themselves some Shane Ray.

[LordHelpOurColts]

It's pretty simple: He's the best player on the team.