Seattle Saying No Way On R Wilson/R Wilson Contract (Merge)

[Superman]

I'm not nearly as fascinated by this as some of you seem to be. And I'm a contract junkie. It's just a negotiation. Wilson won't be the first good QB to play his contract out, and if he gets tagged, he won't be the first good QB to play a season on the tag. Some negotiations are a little more haltered than others. 

 

It's interesting that he wants to be the highest paid, if that's even true (I don't find Jason Cole reliable, so who knows). However, without some drastic changes in circumstance, Wilson will be re-signed by the Seahawks, and he'll get a ton of money. 

[amfootball]

I'm not nearly as fascinated by this as some of you seem to be. And I'm a contract junkie. It's just a negotiation. Wilson won't be the first good QB to play his contract out, and if he gets tagged, he won't be the first good QB to play a season on the tag. Some negotiations are a little more haltered than others. 

 

It's interesting that he wants to be the highest paid, if that's even true (I don't find Jason Cole reliable, so who knows). However, without some drastic changes in circumstance, Wilson will be re-signed by the Seahawks, and he'll get a ton of money. 

I think it is fascinating precisely because Wilson wants to be the highest paid (if true). That is a game changer IMO. There is no way Seattle makes him the highest paid player when they don't even feel he is top 5 QB. Wilson has also stated that he is fine playing elsewhere. Maybe it all is jockeying for position and something gets done in the end but Florio has this interesting take on a possible trade scenario early next year, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/a-trade-is-also-possible-for-russell-wilson/

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm not nearly as fascinated by this as some of you seem to be. And I'm a contract junkie. It's just a negotiation. Wilson won't be the first good QB to play his contract out, and if he gets tagged, he won't be the first good QB to play a season on the tag. Some negotiations are a little more haltered than others. 

 

It's interesting that he wants to be the highest paid, if that's even true (I don't find Jason Cole reliable, so who knows). However, without some drastic changes in circumstance, Wilson will be re-signed by the Seahawks, and he'll get a ton of money. 

 

The Seahawks got 4 great years of upper level QB play, and 2 Super Bowls with one Championship; all on 3rd round money!  Dang right Wilson and his agent want to get paid.  And if the Hawks say its the rest of the team, play out your tags, then leave to another team and let the Hawks  replace you with their next 3rd round project and see how that works for them.

[chad72]

The Seahawks got 4 great years of upper level QB play, and 2 Super Bowls with one Championship; all on 3rd round money!  Dang right Wilson and his agent want to get paid.  And if the Hawks say its the rest of the team, play out your tags, then leave to another team and let the Hawks  replace you with their next 3rd round project and see how that works for them.

 

Lightning does not strike twice for the same team (unless it is Peyton and Andrew back-to-back ). RW as a 3rd rounder is to the Seahawks what Brady as a 6th rounder was to the Patriots.

[Cynjin]

I'm not nearly as fascinated by this as some of you seem to be. And I'm a contract junkie. It's just a negotiation. Wilson won't be the first good QB to play his contract out, and if he gets tagged, he won't be the first good QB to play a season on the tag. Some negotiations are a little more haltered than others. 

 

It's interesting that he wants to be the highest paid, if that's even true (I don't find Jason Cole reliable, so who knows). However, without some drastic changes in circumstance, Wilson will be re-signed by the Seahawks, and he'll get a ton of money.

I wonder if the players, QBs in particular, think about the salary caps effect on signing the other players that are necessary to build a championship team? Not that I condemn any player for getting whatever money they can. I just would be interested if the thought what it takes to build a championship contender enters into their thought process and to what extent it does.

I personally would be willing to take a little less in order to play for a team in contention for a championship. Of course that is assuming I had confidence in the front office's ability.

[Bones_Jones]

pay him 20 mil with more guaranteed money than cam. 

[Superman]

I wonder if the players, QBs in particular, think about the salary caps effect on signing the other players that are necessary to build a championship team? Not that I condemn any player for getting whatever money they can. I just would be interested if the thought what it takes to build a championship contender enters into their thought process and to what extent it does.

I personally would be willing to take a little less in order to play for a team in contention for a championship. Of course that is assuming I had confidence in the front office's ability.

 

The history of players -- especially QBs -- taking less so the team can do more around them is pretty poor. Go back to Brady in 2005, who signed for below market value, and then watched the Patriots let all their good players leave. Then in 2012, Brady signs this deal that gives the Pats a bunch of cap flexibility, and then they let Welker walk, then Talib the next year. Then this year, he stayed with his below market deal (when I thought he'd get another big guaranteed chunk), then watched the Patriots fail to keep Revis.

 

Manning's deal with the Colts in 2011, which was poorly structured and eventually led to his release (partially), and the team won 2 games the next year. He'd have been better off staying on the franchise tag, and it would also have been better for the team, ironically. 

 

Romo has pushed money out, then the Cowboys let Murray walk and are stalemated with Bryant.

 

Roethlisberger pushed money out, then the Steelers let Mike Wallace walk (although that was the right choice, and they kept the better player in Bryant). 

 

Decent to good front offices, all of them (some might scoff at the Cowboys, but I saw an article recently that said the Cowboys have drafted more Pro Bowlers than any other team over the last several seasons, so they aren't as bad as people think). 

[Superman]

Barnwell's lengthy, data-loaded piece on the Russell Wilson situation: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tip-o-the-salary-cap-what-to-do-about-russell-wilson/

 

Good stuff, but probably over-analyzed. Teams don't let good QBs walk in free agency. He'll get paid. 

[amfootball]

Barnwell's lengthy, data-loaded piece on the Russell Wilson situation: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tip-o-the-salary-cap-what-to-do-about-russell-wilson/

 

Good stuff, but probably over-analyzed. Teams don't let good QBs walk in free agency. He'll get paid. 

That was a very in-depth read, thanks for posting. I don't think there is any question that Wilson will get paid but whether or not the Seahawks do it is another thing. I have to think sound minds prevail here and they come to an agreement but if Wilson wants to be the highest paid player and feels another team would pay him that than I can see this getting very sticky for Seattle. Wilson already has a ring so he has that in his favor in terms of possibly getting out of Seattle. In addition, the talk around the team has been that Lynch and the defense has been the main reasons for the Seahawks success. Perhaps he wants to prove elsewhere that he can be that elite QB that leads a team? I don't know but the issues/variables surrounding this deal are somewhat unprecedented IMO.

[Superman]

That was a very in-depth read, thanks for posting. I don't think there is any question that Wilson will get paid but whether or not the Seahawks do it is another thing. I have to think sound minds prevail here and they come to an agreement but if Wilson wants to be the highest paid player and feels another team would pay him that than I can see this getting very sticky for Seattle. Wilson already has a ring so he has that in his favor in terms of possibly getting out of Seattle. In addition, the talk around the team has been that Lynch and the defense has been the main reasons for the Seahawks success. Perhaps he wants to prove elsewhere that he can be that elite QB that leads a team? I don't know but the issues/variables surrounding this deal are somewhat unprecedented IMO.

 

It's not really unprecedented. Good young QBs have had major success on rookie contracts. Anything that's unique about this situation is can be understood by recognizing this is still the first wave of draft pick free agency under the new CBA. Good QBs have played out their contracts, and even played on the franchise tag. 

 

To me, this is another prisoner of the moment kind of situation. I know certain aspects are intriguing, but big picture, this is a good QB who is underpaid and approaching free agency. Historically, it's nothing new, and historically, the QB gets paid. 

[amfootball]

It's not really unprecedented. Good young QBs have had major success on rookie contracts. Anything that's unique about this situation is can be understood by recognizing this is still the first wave of draft pick free agency under the new CBA. Good QBs have played out their contracts, and even played on the franchise tag. 

 

To me, this is another prisoner of the moment kind of situation. I know certain aspects are intriguing, but big picture, this is a good QB who is underpaid and approaching free agency. Historically, it's nothing new, and historically, the QB gets paid. 

Interested in your opinion on this. If your Seattle, do you cave and make him the highest paid QB? if not, what is the work around? Keep tagging him?

[jskinnz]

It's not really unprecedented. Good young QBs have had major success on rookie contracts. Anything that's unique about this situation is can be understood by recognizing this is still the first wave of draft pick free agency under the new CBA. Good QBs have played out their contracts, and even played on the franchise tag. 

 

To me, this is another prisoner of the moment kind of situation. I know certain aspects are intriguing, but big picture, this is a good QB who is underpaid and approaching free agency. Historically, it's nothing new, and historically, the QB gets paid. 

 

Agree - this is much ado about nothing.  Just offseason nonsense.  Florio's trade outline linked above is meaningless nonsense because Wilson is going nowhere.  Really good, in their prime QB's don't go anywhere.  Pat Kirwan on NFL radio is a really good listen.  His feeling is they can tag him after this year for two years and still be in good shape.  Wilson will be in Seattle for a long time.

[Superman]

Interested in your opinion on this. If your Seattle, do you cave and make him the highest paid QB? if not, what is the work around? Keep tagging him?

 

It's just negotiation. They'll come to an agreement, and then it's behind them. 

[The Fish]

 

 

Colts fans... *put up with me.*

[The Fish]

Wilson is going to get paid by the Hawks, and the Hawks are well within their rights to make him wait. When he get's paid that annual trip to the SB is up.

[jvan1973]

Interested in your opinion on this. If your Seattle, do you cave and make him the highest paid QB? if not, what is the work around? Keep tagging him?

He will not be the highest paid qb. He and his agent will cave between now and two off seasons from now. He will get top three qb money and I'm sure he will be happy to get it.

[BOTT]

Lightning does not strike twice for the same team (unless it is Peyton and Andrew back-to-back ). RW as a 3rd rounder is to the Seahawks what Brady as a 6th rounder was to the Patriots.

Yeah......no

[amfootball]

He will not be the highest paid qb. He and his agent will cave between now and two off seasons from now. He will get top three qb money and I'm sure he will be happy to get it.

Yeah, that is what I think too. Although I think he will closer to top 5 not 3.

[Defjamz26]

With how good Seattle's roster is. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Seahawks do some type of deal for Drew Brees in a year or 2. Breed is almost 40 and on a good day is maybe the 5th best QB in the league. But he's fat better than Wilson and would probably play for a little less than what Wilson wants, given his age.

I'd take a 37 year old Drew Brees for $18 million a year over a young Russell Wilson for $20 million a year any day.

It's not like Seattle was completely crap before Wilson came. They were a 7-9 team before him and we just enough to get them over the hump. The Rams are basically the Seahawks. All they need is a QB just good enough and they're easily as good as Seattle. With Graham now in Seattle too it's perfect.

[Defjamz26]

Plus, they're probably trying to shop Brees anyways.

[bap1331]

I'm shocked that drew Brees is 37. He is oooooooold!!! I thought he was like 33 but I guess the years pass by fast.

[ColtsBlueFL]

It was actually the WORST CALL in the HISTORY of the NFL by Pete Carrol...nuff said

 

You cannot predict what would happen.  I remember Colts were down 21 - 18 to the Steelers in playoffs, 1:20 to go.  First and ten.Steelers on our 2 yard line.  Colts have 3 timeouts.I'm thinking, they are going Jumbo package and giving it to the 'Bus' (Jerome Bettis) every snap.  Safest thing they could do.  I trying to figure out what will be if we can hold the Bus out of the end zone and call timeout each time what the scenario would be on 4th down?

 

Before the first play was completed, my whole thinking and scenarios were tossed on their head. Becasue on the safest and best play call the Steelers could make, this happened...

 

 

So, you never truly know.

[12dalegend]

You cannot predict what would happen.  I remember Colts were down 21 - 18 to the Steelers in playoffs, 1:20 to go.  First and ten.Steelers on our 2 yard line.  Colts have 3 timeouts.I'm thinking, they are going Jumbo package and giving it to the 'Bus' (Jerome Bettis) every snap.  Safest thing they could do.  I trying to figure out what will be if we can hold the Bus out of the end zone and call timeout each time what the scenario would be on 4th down?

 

Before the first play was completed, my whole thinking and scenarios were tossed on their head. Becasue on the safest and best play call the Steelers could make, this happened...

 

 

So, you never truly know.

Bettis was lazy at protecting the ball, he had it out there I could not believe it but BEASTMODE would not have been that careless and Seahawks would have won GUARANTEED!  mahalo.....aloha oi

[ColtsBlueFL]

Bettis was lazy at protecting the ball, he had it out there I could not believe it but BEASTMODE would not have been that careless and Seahawks would have won GUARANTEED!  mahalo.....aloha oi

 

Say it all you want, but you absolutely cannot guarantee anything.  That's why they lineup and play the game.  As the Steelers announcers said, Bettis almost never fumbles.  'Once in a Blue Moon' they put it.  At the worst time, the Blue Moon appeared.  And there is no way to say the same thing or something similar couldn't happen to Lynch as well.  Not expected at all by either in that situation.  Yet it happened to Jerome, and it could have happened to Marshawn.

 

[dw49]

Not a bad starting point for RW.....

 

 

 

According to Profootballtalk, "word on the NFL grapevine" is that the Seahawks have offered Russell Wilson a long-term contract with an average-annual value of $21 million, and "significant guaranteed money."

It's a good start, but not what Wilson is looking for, which is to become the highest-paid player in the league. That requires surpassing Aaron Rodgers' annual $22 million. It's a standoff where Wilson owns much of the leverage, though Seattle has the ability to franchise tag its quarterback each of the next two years. In the end, a deal before Week 1 seems more likely than not. It's makes too much sense for both sides.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com 

Jul 25 - 1:57 PM

• Player Outlook
•  

[12dalegend]

Say it all you want, but you absolutely cannot guarantee anything.  That's why they lineup and play the game.  As the Steelers announcers said, Bettis almost never fumbles.  'Once in a Blue Moon' they put it.  At the worst time, the Blue Moon appeared.  And there is no way to say the same thing or something similar couldn't happen to Lynch as well.  Not expected at all by either in that situation.  Yet it happened to Jerome, and it could have happened to Marshawn.

 

Should not have attempted that fake before giving it to Lynch that was a BIG mistake and against that 49er defense OUCH! The Pats knew they were passing they also knew Carrol wanted Wilson to be the SAVIOR of the SB, it cost them BIGTIME. In BEASTMODE I trust

[CanuckColt]

pay him 20 mil with more guaranteed money than cam.

Apparently, Wilson/agent turned down 21 mil...he wants more than Aaron Rogers.

Wilson has become a real tool.

[amfootball]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13325784/russell-wilson-faces-pressure-sign-deal-training-camp-nfl

 

He wants $25 mil a year. If a deal is not done by Friday when camp opens than talks will be tabled and the Hawks will franchise him next year at $20 mil. Clayton makes some good points here. Makes sense for Wilson to take a deal at just over $22 mil (assuming the Hawks come up from the $21) rather than wait. Also Seattle does not have the cash to give him the big bonus that the Ben and Cam got so there is that too.

[jvan1973]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13325784/russell-wilson-faces-pressure-sign-deal-training-camp-nfl

He wants $25 mil a year. If a deal is not done by Friday when camp opens than talks will be tabled and the Hawks will franchise him next year at $20 mil. Clayton makes some good points here. Makes sense for Wilson to take a deal at just over $22 mil (assuming the Hawks come up from the $21) rather than wait. Also Seattle does not have the cash to give him the big bonus that the Ben and Cam got so there is that too.

The Seahawks have plenty of cash for the bonus. They have the richest owner in the league

[Narcosys]

No .. for sure he was not a read option QB . Kaepernick and the early version of RG3 are examples of that IMO. He certainly isn't what you would normally label as a "running QB" either as those guys are now dinosaurs in today's NFL. I think the only point we might disagree on is if he can continue to be as effective as he is without improving his play inside the pocket. As you said , it's unlikely he has a growth spurt , so this will be the issue. Can he see the field being 5'11" ? Maybe... Bress did it ( or learned it ?) and he's only an inch or inch and a half taller

He may see the field, but his height is a good reason why he threw that interception. He wasn't tall enough to get the ball over the linemen and at a downward angle. Thus the ball was high at the chest and not in the receivers gut like it should have been. Had he been taller he would have been able to get the ball down more.

And we wouldn't be discussing this.

[amfootball]

The Seahawks have plenty of cash for the bonus. They have the richest owner in the league

According to the article, the cash available is based on the cap. So the Hawks would only have around $20 mil to give him. I am not great at the cap stuff so maybe DW49 can weigh in here.

[amfootball]

He may see the field, but his height is a good reason why he threw that interception. He wasn't tall enough to get the ball over the linemen and at a downward angle. Thus the ball was high at the chest and not in the receivers gut like it should have been. Had he been taller he would have been able to get the ball down more.

And we wouldn't be discussing this.

There was zero wrong with his pass. He put it right where he was supposed to, the issue was Butler was standing right there. If anything his height hurt him from seeing that Butler completely jumped the route.

[Narcosys]

There was zero wrong with his pass. He put it right where he was supposed to, the issue was Butler was standing right there. If anything his height hurt him from seeing that Butler completely jumped the route.

Umm..no definitely not. Even the experts and analysis were saying it should've been in his gut, not high like it was. Take the homerism out. It was a bad pass that assisted in that interception. If it was down and in his gut, it wouldn't have been intercepted.

[UKCOLT17]

Seahawks got a lot of problems kam wants a new contract dont blame him he is underpayed and Bennet wants new deal. That's what happens when have alot of stars but Wilson isn't as much as he thinks he is.

[amfootball]

Umm..no definitely not. Even the experts and analysis were saying it should've been in his gut, not high like it was. Take the homerism out. It was a bad pass that assisted in that interception. If it was down and in his gut, it wouldn't have been intercepted.

What homerism? That was a horrific play call and Wilson did not see Butler standing right there. But his pass was right where it was supposed to be just that Butler got their before his receiver did. I am of the mindset that he should have never thrown it once Browner disrupted the pick play but again I don't believe Wilson saw that either. It was a bang bang play.

[21isSuperman]

 

Not a bad starting point for RW.....

 

 

 

According to Profootballtalk, "word on the NFL grapevine" is that the Seahawks have offered Russell Wilson a long-term contract with an average-annual value of $21 million, and "significant guaranteed money."

It's a good start, but not what Wilson is looking for, which is to become the highest-paid player in the league. That requires surpassing Aaron Rodgers' annual $22 million. It's a standoff where Wilson owns much of the leverage, though Seattle has the ability to franchise tag its quarterback each of the next two years. In the end, a deal before Week 1 seems more likely than not. It's makes too much sense for both sides.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com 

Jul 25 - 1:57 PM

• Player Outlook
•  

 

Wow.  If I'm Russell Wilson, I take that contract very happily.  He has the league's best defense and one of the best RBs in the game to help him.  He's worth less than $21 mil per year, in my opinion.  If the Seahawks have offered that, I'd take it

[Narcosys]

What homerism? That was a horrific play call and Wilson did not see Butler standing right there. But his pass was right where it was supposed to be just that Butler got their before his receiver did. I am of the mindset that he should have never thrown it once Browner disrupted the pick play but again I don't believe Wilson saw that either. It was a bang bang play.

Yes the ball went where he threw it. So it did go where it was supposed to be. But the best throw for that situation is ALWAYS in the gut, not high, to prevent an interception. Had he been taller he would have been able to get it down. He barely got it over the lineman's head to get it where it was and it lead to the interception. You're right about not seeing him but A gut throw leaves that ball unable to be intercepted.

And I just credit his height to the throw more than not seeing him.

[amfootball]

Yes the ball went where he threw it. So it did go where it was supposed to be. But the best throw for that situation is ALWAYS in the gut, not high, to prevent an interception. Had he been taller he would have been able to get it down. He barely got it over the lineman's head to get it where it was and it lead to the interception. You're right about not seeing him but A gut throw leaves that ball unable to be intercepted.

And I just credit his height to the throw more than not seeing him.

Yeah maybe a little of both. But I believe he would have thrown it low or even behind Lockette had he seen Butler.

[Superman]

According to the article, the cash available is based on the cap. So the Hawks would only have around $20 mil to give him. I am not great at the cap stuff so maybe DW49 can weigh in here.

 

Not really how it works. The whole point of signing bonuses (and other ways of doing bonus money) is to spread the impact of the cash over the life of the contract. You can do a five year proration, so a $30m signing bonus only counts $6m against the cap for a contract of 5+ years. Then you add his yearly "salary" on top of whatever prorated bonus there is. 

 

There are significant cap considerations, obviously, but the actual cash isn't an issue. They can use any number of mechanisms to lessen the blow of big bonus money. 

[jvan1973]

Not really how it works. The whole point of signing bonuses (and other ways of doing bonus money) is to spread the impact of the cash over the life of the contract. You can do a five year proration, so a $30m signing bonus only counts $6m against the cap for a contract of 5+ years. Then you add his yearly "salary" on top of whatever prorated bonus there is.

There are significant cap considerations, obviously, but the actual cash isn't an issue. They can use any number of mechanisms to lessen the blow of big bonus money.

Cash on hand is certainly not a problem for Paul Allen. He probably has 50 million hidden in his couch