My take on the management of the team

[southwest1]

I agree.  What he's gotten right has far outweighed what he got wrong.

True Archer. It's all about remembering when INDY had real incompetence at the GM position. Remember Chris Polian? Grigson is a scouting god send next to that guy. How quickly some fans forget. Enough said. 

[amfootball]

I liked your post AMF until I got to your 3rd paragraph & that nonsense about "finesse" dome track teams. It's not like players under Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, or Chuck Pagano never practiced outside in chilly temperatures. Perhaps, you were trying to make the point that always practicing outside toughens a team up so NE has never practiced indoors during severe lightning huh? 

 

I always find it funny how people love to watch SBs in a dome, but if your stadium has a roof on it you're automatically considered a wuss & soft as a club? Seriously? You believe that hogwash really? Sigh...You're entitled to your opinion naturally & I'm free to respectfully disagree with your overall conclusion my friend. 

 

I seem to recall head coach Bill Belichick getting fired as head coach of the Browns at First Energy Stadium in Ohio & that outdoor environment didn't garner or generate him any Lombardi trophies. A QB named Brady did. 

I was talking more about roster building SW. If you are a dome team than naturally your team is going to be built to take advantage of the fast track and comfy indoor temps. The cold weather teams have to be built differently in order to win in Nov and Dec given the conditions can turn brutal in terms of the elements. My overall point was that I don't think you can take a dome team and morph them into the Steelers, Ravens or Pats. Where those teams play is a big factor in how they are built and how they play. That  being said, I am not suggesting being a cold weather team is better or more advantageous as after all Seattle almost just won back-to-back SBs. On the contrary, I think you have to build where you strength is and use the dome as an advantage versus trying to be something else.

[Nadine]

To the Pats fan weighing in on our owner, GM, fans, and team

 

As an outside perspective, I have always gotten the sense that the Colts are in no man's land with their football philosophy. 

... a smart owner and GM understand where the strength of the team is and build around that. 

 

Dome teams traditionally have never been smash mouth. They have always been finesse, track teams. I think playing in a controlled environment has an effect on the psyche versus playing outdoors especially outdoors in a cold weather environment. In other words, a dome team in Indy is not going to morph into the mindset of an eastern team like the Ravens, Steelers or Pats. . I think what I am getting at is the Colts are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in their approach. 

 

Our philosophy is flawed and our owner is not smart......check

 

I think often owners and GMs can get stuck on what has been successful in the league and then lose of sight of the balance piece as you say. When I look at the Pats last year...overall got more physical and versatile and managed to stay healthy as well - a big key to any championship run.

 

 I get that the Colts ... want the smash mouth defense but did not add any of the smash guys in FA. 

 

The Pats are more physical and versatile...check

The Colts fail at FA......check

 

Semantics. He correlated Star War numbers with not winning rings. You can't have both is his point and he would rather focus on the balanced team than the star war numbers. The problem is he has the QB to put up those numbers ...

 

Irsay has a flawed view of the past, present, and future.........check

 

There is no such thing as the balanced team in the cap/FA era so you have to shade toward one side or the other and certainly having a great QB goes a long way to covering up many weaknesses on a team but in the Colts case shading toward Luck willl make this regime look the same as the old one which is what Irsay does not want. He made that abundantly clear. He will sacrifice Star Wars numbers for rings. Because he knows you can't have both in this era.

 

Irsay would rather lose than have Star Wars numbers...check

 

I think may be the fan base may be setting itself up for disappointment

 

Colts fans are misguided........check

 

I think once he moved on from Manning and Polian he felt the need to try to justify those moves to the fanbase beyond just saying it was a football decision. And as owner he acutely understands that he needs to satisfy his fanbase. His expectations don't exist in a vacuum and in the end he really wants to make money like all owners and that comes via the fans ...

 

Irsay is pandering to the fan base.......check

 

This "balanced" team mantra really is just owner speak. ...I think for Irsay and Grigson. A team not built around Luck looks forced and will most likely not be unsuccessful. A team built around Luck that wins the Super Bowl will draw the comparisons to Polian/Manning. My point is not sure if Irsay can have his cake and eat it too and I think his desire to win differently compromises Grigson to a certain extent. 

 

Irsay is limiting Grigson...check

 

 

 

As you say, it is easier said than done and maybe when Grigson's tenure is over Polian may be more lauded among Colts fans for the job he did year in and year out.

 

Polian was better than Grigson.......check

 

 My overall point was that I don't think you can take a dome team and morph them into the Steelers, Ravens or Pats. Where those teams play is a big factor in how they are built and how they play. That  being said, I am not suggesting being a cold weather team is better or more advantageous as after all Seattle almost just won back-to-back SBs. On the contrary, I think you have to build where you strength is and use the dome as an advantage versus trying to be something else.

 

Dome teams are soft.......check

 

 

I understand you look at the world through patriot colored glasses but, come ON!  To all your shots at our owner, GM, and fans I say

 

DON'T BELIEVE ME JUST WATCH!!!!!!!

 

[peytonmanning18]

If the Colts wanted to be a power run team then they never should have drafted Luck and should have traded back in the 2012 draft for more picks. You don't buy a Ferrari and only drive it 30 miles per hour.

[ruksak]

Typically, I don't trust people who use an entire sentence as their user-name. I kid I kid......

[Superman]

Perhaps the disagreement here is that I think Polian had SB worthy rosters but fell short for a myriad of reasons. It is hard to blame him for Roethlisberger making a game saving tackle while running backwards or Sean Payton deciding to pull an onsides kick at half of the SB along with Freeney's injury that completely changed the second half of that game. So many great teams and QBs have had one SB win like Favre or none like Marino, Kelly and Tarkenton.

 

As you say, it is easier said than done and maybe when Grigson's tenure is over Polian may be more lauded among Colts fans for the job he did year in and year out.

 

The 2006 Patriots were a few minutes from going to the Super Bowl, but that team didn't have any receivers. The 2011 Packers were probably the best team in the league, but went out in the first round, and that's partly because of defensive shortcomings and lack of a ground game. 

 

Like I said, I'm not dogging Polian out when I say those teams weren't balanced. Everyone knows that the Colts didn't have a very good defense, and everyone knows that after 2007, the Colts didn't have a very good rushing attack. I don't know why we're acting like this isn't the case; it's historical fact. Polian gets plenty of respect among Colts fans. That doesn't mean his rosters were above reproach.

 

Maybe in a few years, it will become obvious that Irsay's ideal is practical, if hard to achieve. Whether it's Grigson or not doesn't matter. Building a balanced team around a franchise QB is better than building an unbalanced team around a franchise QB. It's really simple.

[amfootball]

 

Maybe in a few years, it will become obvious that Irsay's ideal is practical, if hard to achieve.

Yes, this is the  part I am getting at. His success even with the flaws is very difficult to achieve and he did it with different head coaches as well. I have always maintained that this era of the cap and FA is the hardest to build a team given rosters turn over every 3 years. It would seem to me that the Colts fan base is incredibly hard on its GMs. I know you support Grigson and I think despite some of his obvious mishaps, he has done a great job even if folks like to discount his positive moves because he has Luck. I get the fact that the goal is to win rings and ultimately Grigson will be judged against that but that does not mean if he does not win one that he has not been a good GM who may have had rosters good enough to win the ring but did not because of reasons outside of his control.

[Jason_]

If the Colts wanted to be a power run team then they never should have drafted Luck and should have traded back in the 2012 draft for more picks. You don't buy a Ferrari and only drive it 30 miles per hour.

 

ugh...this is ridiculous.  Luck (at Stanford) and so far in the NFL is much better with an established running game...any QB is.  Even the teams with the best QBs in the league strive to have balance and that includes an effective running game.  The Packers, Broncos, Patriots etc have elite level QBs but still spend plenty of resources trying to also have a complimentary running game. 

 

The whole "power run game" thing is still obviously being misconstrued.  They never said they wanted a "run-first" team, but an effective power running game to compliment the passing game. 

[bababooey]

Yes, this is the  part I am getting at. His success even with the flaws is very difficult to achieve and he did it with different head coaches as well. I have always maintained that this era of the cap and FA is the hardest to build a team given rosters turn over every 3 years. It would seem to me that the Colts fan base is incredibly hard on its GMs. I know you support Grigson and I think despite some of his obvious mishaps, he has done a great job even if folks like to discount his positive moves because he has Luck. I get the fact that the goal is to win rings and ultimately Grigson will be judged against that but that does not mean if he does not win one that he has not been a good GM who may have had rosters good enough to win the ring but did not because of reasons outside of his control.

omg nadine just ROASTED you, i would just take a lap and call it a day at that point . see you at the draft

[amfootball]

omg nadine just ROASTED you, i would just take a lap and call it a day at that point . see you at the draft

She did? I must have missed it. I have only been responding with Superman on this and there has been no barbs just a discussion so not sure why there needed to be a roast?

[Superman]

Yes, this is the  part I am getting at. His success even with the flaws is very difficult to achieve and he did it with different head coaches as well. I have always maintained that this era of the cap and FA is the hardest to build a team given rosters turn over every 3 years. It would seem to me that the Colts fan base is incredibly hard on its GMs. I know you support Grigson and I think despite some of his obvious mishaps, he has done a great job even if folks like to discount his positive moves because he has Luck. I get the fact that the goal is to win rings and ultimately Grigson will be judged against that but that does not mean if he does not win one that he has not been a good GM who may have had rosters good enough to win the ring but did not because of reasons outside of his control.

 

All that's fine. It's different from building a balanced roster around Luck. You originally asked whether the team wants to build a strong, balanced roster, or build around Luck, and the answer is both. Not that it's easy or that anything is guaranteed, but that's the objective.

[amfootball]

All that's fine. It's different from building a balanced roster around Luck. You originally asked whether the team wants to build a strong, balanced roster, or build around Luck, and the answer is both. Not that it's easy or that anything is guaranteed, but that's the objective.

Sure. It was not a question but more of an observation based on Irsay's past comments. But I get what you are saying. Obviously they want the best of both worlds as all teams do.

[peytonmanning18]

ugh...this is ridiculous. Luck (at Stanford) and so far in the NFL is much better with an established running game...any QB is. Even the teams with the best QBs in the league strive to have balance and that includes an effective running game. The Packers, Broncos, Patriots etc have elite level QBs but still spend plenty of resources trying to also have a complimentary running game.

The whole "power run game" thing is still obviously being misconstrued. They never said they wanted a "run-first" team, but an effective power running game to compliment the passing game.

It's obvious that when Pep Hamilton came in, they wanted to take the ball out of Luck's hands and put it into Trent Richardson's which is absurd. Later last season when they realized that Luck is actually a competent quarterback, they let him play his game.

[Jason_]

It's obvious that when Pep Hamilton came in, they wanted to take the ball out of Luck's hands and put it into Trent Richardson's which is absurd. Later last season when they realized that Luck is actually a competent quarterback, they let him play his game.

 

yeah that's not true...that seems to be the viewpoint of someone who has determined they don't like Pep.  There is no QB in the league that will not benefit from an effective running game and that's all they wanted to give Luck.  The difference was that early in the season they wanted to establish the run to setup the pass, but as injuries hit the OL and Trent refused to improve, they decided to switch it up to establish the pass first to setup the run.  They wanted to establish an effective running game.  They did not want to turn Luck into a game manager.

[Nadine]

She did? I must have missed it. I have only been responding with Superman on this and there has been no barbs just a discussion so not sure why there needed to be a roast?

[peytonmanning18]

yeah that's not true...that seems to be the viewpoint of someone who has determined they don't like Pep. There is no QB in the league that will not benefit from an effective running game and that's all they wanted to give Luck. The difference was that early in the season they wanted to establish the run to setup the pass, but as injuries hit the OL and Trent refused to improve, they decided to switch it up to establish the pass first to setup the run. They wanted to establish an effective running game. They did not want to turn Luck into a game manager.

They absolutely wanted to change him into a game manager, and then they realized that they can't stop any of the good teams on defense and can't run the ball.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Yes I do. I just don't want to waste Luck's career like Manning's with this way of thinking.

 

Manning's career has been a total waste.

[jmac_48]

It's obvious that when Pep Hamilton came in, they wanted to take the ball out of Luck's hands and put it into Trent Richardson's which is absurd. Later last season when they realized that Luck is actually a competent quarterback, they let him play his game.

Aye yi yi Amigo, that's a very myopic view of what the Colts are trying to accomplish.

They have known all along that Andrew is capable of running this offense at a high level.

They are trying to establish a solid running game to complement his skills and open the offense even more.

It's what Supe has been saying, the two facets of the O are not mutually exclusive.

And to be honest depending on just the run or just passing is not the ideal strategy for any team.

 

Look at what happened with NE last year when they shut down our receivers...

We couldn't even run against their front four, now that loss is not just on the O, but that is a whole other can of worms.

 

Balance for the O, Balance on both sides of the ball.

An Ideal to be strived for, Progress, Not Perfection!

[ColtRider]

We're too hot for ya ...

DON'T BELIEVE ME ... JUST WATCH!

(we're waiting for ya in the bushes, N.E.!)

[Jason_]

They absolutely wanted to change him into a game manager, and then they realized that they can't stop any of the good teams on defense and can't run the ball.

 

sorry but that's just stupid.  Pagano, Pep, Grigson, Irsay...they all know Luck is the best player on offense.  They're not trying to limit him, they're trying to help him.  Believe what you want though.

[Restored]

Yes I'm taking a jab at the management in this post. Throughout the Manning year's and now early on in

Luck's young career, they are more worried about a high flying passing attack than a strong running game

and controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

 

Luck is an awesome talent and I believe he could do more with a strong running game that would open

up the play action pass, and a solid line to pass protect and blow open running lanes to allow the play

action pass to take effect.

During the run of the XLI playoff's, the Colts ran the ball well with Dom Rhodes and the defense had

a tough run defense that held their own during most of the playoffs. Why not go back to THAT blueprint?

 

In the off season, they went out and spent even more cap space on the receiving corp with the addition

of an aging Johnson, instead of focusing on the running game. `save Gore, speaking about the lines here'

 

In closing, my concern is that Luck has potential to be a multiple SB winning QB and I don't want his career

to be wasted away with the old philosophy of soft, aerial assault style of play, that crumbles in the playoffs

against teams that run the ball, stop the run and control the lines.

 

If we keep doing what we are doing then expect to keep getting what we are getting, soft football that 

loses in the playoffs. I needed to get that off of my chest. 

 

I think you are confusing the philosophy with the result. The philosophy has been what you and a lot of other fans are wanting. A balanced offensive approach with controlling the lines of scrimmage. Grigson/Pagano have both tried to bring in guys to help that (Trent Richardson trade, signing of RJF and Donald Thomas to name a few). It hasn't been for a lack of sound philosophy but rather the results. Obviously Trent was a disaster, RJF turned out to be who we thought he was and Donald Thomas can't stay healthy. The signing of the Andre Johnson was to re-fill a role that the Colts had with Reggie Wayne (Veteran locker room presence WR that can still make some big time plays occasionally). Overall, you can't be disappointed with the Colts philosophy, however you can be disappointed with the results.

[theanarchist]

Yes I'm taking a jab at the management in this post. Throughout the Manning year's and now early on in

Luck's young career, they are more worried about a high flying passing attack than a strong running game

and controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

 

Luck is an awesome talent and I believe he could do more with a strong running game that would open

up the play action pass, and a solid line to pass protect and blow open running lanes to allow the play

action pass to take effect.

During the run of the XLI playoff's, the Colts ran the ball well with Dom Rhodes and the defense had

a tough run defense that held their own during most of the playoffs. Why not go back to THAT blueprint?

 

In the off season, they went out and spent even more cap space on the receiving corp with the addition

of an aging Johnson, instead of focusing on the running game. `save Gore, speaking about the lines here'

 

In closing, my concern is that Luck has potential to be a multiple SB winning QB and I don't want his career

to be wasted away with the old philosophy of soft, aerial assault style of play, that crumbles in the playoffs

against teams that run the ball, stop the run and control the lines.

 

If we keep doing what we are doing then expect to keep getting what we are getting, soft football that 

loses in the playoffs. I needed to get that off of my chest. 

Agree in part but the blueprint for success in the NFL is a strong passing attack. Now, having said that, what makes a passing attack even better? Strong running game and of course pass protection. Agree that the line has to get better. We also need a playmaker on the DL.

[Nadine]

We're too hot for ya ...

DON'T BELIEVE ME ... JUST WATCH!

(we're waiting for ya in the bushes, N.E.!)

I had that song in my head all day yesterday.  Fun song!