Trade Idea- Switch Struggling Scheme Fits.

[RealityIsLuck]

Similar to the Jerry Hughes trade, and the Vontae Davis trade (Dolphins connection) but closer to the Hughes deal.

 

Dion Jordan

 

for 

 

Bjoern Werner, 4th

 

Jordan is a bad scheme fit for the 4-3, as he doesn't have the size for DE, or the coverage ability for the OLB. Bjoern Werner doesn't fit the 3-4 as he isn't nearly explosive enough and doesn't have the pass rush ability for the 3-4 OLB, and would be a much better fit for the 4-3 as a DE.

 

For the Colts, you really don't loose much and there is potential for lots of reward for the price of a 4th. Jordan has tons of potential and could fit right in the rotation for now.

 

For the Dolphins, you trade a struggling player for a 4th round pick and a player that is a much better fit for the scheme. I the worst case scenario, you get a player who will give you the same production and a 4th, but Werner has potential for the 4-3.

[CR91]

looks like a win win to me

[MTC]

Dion Jordan's talent is being wasted in Miami. Maybe with Suh, he'll put up better numbers.

 

To stay on course with the topic, I doubt Dolphins would accept that. Dion Jordan still has really high value.

[12isthenew18]

i'd send a 3rd and werner. Werner was a projected top 10 pick at a time too

[RealityIsLuck]

Dion Jordan's talent is being wasted in Miami. Maybe with Suh, he'll put up better numbers.

 

To stay on course with the topic, I doubt Dolphins would accept that. Dion Jordan still has really high value.

I don't know how high. He hasn't really done anything positive since being drafted 3rd overall. He's been suspended, and injured and when healthy not very impressive. Miami just broke the bank for Suh, in order to do that they needed to release lots of good, important role players which they can't afford to replace through FA, making the Draft way more important, so replacing Jordan, and adding a mid-round pick would be adequate, just my opinion.

 

Jordan isn't a big piece of Miamis defense, missing 7 games last year playing 34% of snaps last year in games he played and registered only 1 sack, 12 tackles, 1 QB hit. Not good #'s at all.

[krunk]

Similar to the Jerry Hughes trade, and the Vontae Davis trade (Dolphins connection) but closer to the Hughes deal.

 

Dion Jordan

 

for 

 

Bjoern Werner, 4th

 

Jordan is a bad scheme fit for the 4-3, as he doesn't have the size for DE, or the coverage ability for the OLB. Bjoern Werner doesn't fit the 3-4 as he isn't nearly explosive enough and doesn't have the pass rush ability for the 3-4 OLB, and would be a much better fit for the 4-3 as a DE.

 

For the Colts, you really don't loose much and there is potential for lots of reward for the price of a 4th. Jordan has tons of potential and could fit right in the rotation for now.

 

For the Dolphins, you trade a struggling player for a 4th round pick and a player that is a much better fit for the scheme. I the worst case scenario, you get a player who will give you the same production and a 4th, but Werner has potential for the 4-3.

 

 

I think the bigger thing that needs to be focused on is Dion Jordans substance abuse/use issues.  I think Grigs is getting worn out on these Marijuana guys.   Not sure Grigs will take a risk on a guy that will likely end up in similar shoes as Brazil.  Maybe Jordan would improve in Indy after being pulled away from the Miami party atmosphere, but who really knows.  In Vontaes case he already had proven he was a quality player in the league and Chuck was familiar with him even before that.  In Jordans case he's still got to prove that he's worth anything as a player in the NFL.

[Bluefire4]

I think they're trying him at linebacker this year. It's obvious he is way more talented than Werner.

[wig]

I think the bigger thing that needs to be focused on is Dion Jordans substance abuse/use issues. I think Grigs is getting worn out on these Marijuana guys. Not sure Grigs will take a risk on a guy that will likely end up in similar shoes as Brazil. Maybe Jordan would improve in Indy after being pulled away from the Miami party atmosphere, but who really knows. In Vontaes case he already had proven he was a quality player in the league and Chuck was familiar with him even before that. In Jordans case he's still got to prove that he's worth anything as a player in the NFL.

He got popped for adderall, not pot.

[arkana04]

Jordan will be a good player in the NFL but his talent wont be realized in Miami. 

[RealityIsLuck]

Jordan will be a good player in the NFL but his talent wont be realized in Miami. 

Which is why it would be beneficial for them to trade him. 

 

I think they're trying him at linebacker this year. It's obvious he is way more talented than Werner.

He's not a 4-3 OLB, a very bad fit for the 4-3. He should be in the 3-4, and Werner should be in the 4-3. Miami adds a forth because the potential is there, but won't be utilized.

[Bluefire4]

Which is why it would be beneficial for them to trade him. 

 

He's not a 4-3 OLB, a very bad fit for the 4-3. He should be in the 3-4, and Werner should be in the 4-3. Miami adds a forth because the potential is there, but won't be utilized.

Well they said they have a plan for him. They don't want to give up his talent until they know exactly what they have.

[Gavin]

I'd be for it, But I don't think it will ever happen

[backshoulderfade]

Dion Jordan has been worse than Werner. If anything, we should get a pick off them.

[Dustin]

Dion Jordan isn't a pass rusher. It's not where he wins. He should be covering guys like Gronk and Graham, but Miami is insistent in making him a DE. 

[ztboiler]

It might make sense to give up something for a player of his potential, and on paper Werner and a pick is logical....until you break it down a bit more to what is actually happening on the field.  At that point you come to the conclusion that you'd be giving up a player who has been more productive than Jordan, who does fit in our scheme (just at a different position than initially hoped for) and a valuable pick for a player that has amazing measurables and tons of potential but even less production.

 

Potential gets you fired. 

[Dustin]

It might make sense to give up something for a player of his potential, and on paper Werner and a pick is logical....until you break it down a bit more to what is actually happening on the field.  At that point you come to the conclusion that you'd be giving up a player who has been more productive than Jordan, who does fit in our scheme (just at a different position than initially hoped for) and a valuable pick for a player that has amazing measurables and tons of potential but even less production.

 

Potential gets you fired. 

 

I don't think giving up a 4th round pick and a bad pass rusher is going to get Grigson fired. Call it a hunch.

[ztboiler]

I don't think giving up a 4th round pick and a bad pass rusher is going to get Grigson fired. Call it a hunch.

Sometimes you like to talk football, which you are very good at.  Other times you just want to argue.  Not hard to see which instance this is.

[wig]

Dion Jordan isn't a pass rusher. It's not where he wins. He should be covering guys like Gronk and Graham, but Miami is insistent in making him a DE.

He is a pass rusher and would get absolutely torched by those guys in coverage. He's very good covering short zones but that's about it.

[Dustin]

He is a pass rusher and would get absolutely torched by those guys in coverage. He's very good covering short zones but that's about it.

He's already shut down Gronk, Calvin, and Gates before.

[Track Guy]

I like the trade concept. But the drug violation in Jordan's case makes me less into it. 

[Colts_Fan12]

I'd be down for this bit I don't think we will I'd also send a late pick to Dallas for Morris Claiborne then we could get some more talented youth on that D

[wig]

He's already shut down Gronk, Calvin, and Gates before.

To be fair, I'm going off of college and never saw that. Haven't seen him in Miami much. But, I stand by him as a pass rusher.

[ponyboy]

I floated the idea of Werner for Jordan straight up last year before Jordan's suspension and continued lack of production.  I think at this point I wouldn't even do a straight up trade (with no additional draft pick).

 

I'm not completely down on Werner.  There's no doubt he needs to improve his pass rush, but I'm hopeful that he will progress in this area this year.  If he could just plant and spin underneath the OL instead of being guided right past the pocket (or develop some sort of spin move) I think he still has a chance of being very effective.  It seems like he should be able to pick up some sort of move to improve on this.

 

I wasn't as high on Werner's pass rush as some here early in the year (which peaked after the strip sack of Fitz to end the Houston game) and I'm not as down on him as some are now.  I was pleasantly surprised by his run defense this year.  I'd keep Werner.

[wig]

I floated the idea of Werner for Jordan straight up last year before Jordan's suspension and continued lack of production. I think at this point I wouldn't even do a straight up trade (with no additional draft pick).

I'm not completely down on Werner. There's no doubt he needs to improve his pass rush, but I'm hopeful that he will progress in this area this year. If he could just plant and spin underneath the OL instead of being guided right past the pocket (or develop some sort of spin move) I think he still has a chance of being very effective. It seems like he should be able to pick up some sort of move to improve on this.

I wasn't as high on Werner's pass rush as some here early in the year (which peaked after the strip sack of Fitz to end the Houston game) and I'm not as down on him as some are now. I was pleasantly surprised by his run defense this year. I'd keep Werner.

I'm not down on Werner either, but think Jordan would be better in this defense than Werner ever will.

Whether it's here or another 34, I think Jordan will change teams soon and flourish.

[BOTT]

Horrible idea with a false premise.

[UKColt13]

Meh, I've never been high on Jordan

[lollygagger8]

Meh, I've never been high on Jordan

 

Jordan has though, lol.

[Jdubu]

I honestly don't understand why if both players have struggled in the schemes as some have suggested and think each would flourish in the other scheme, why even add a pick? Trade straight up and have each team assume the risk of the new player and hope for the reward of what they both saw coming out of college. We know the Werner is a high motor, hard working kid and has no spots on his record that we know of while Dion does. Idk, seems like a straight forward trade scenario to me. Colts assume more risk if the new kid has a follow up failed drug test.

I still say we keep Werner and use him at the SAM

[Jason_]

I don't think giving up a 4th round pick and a bad pass rusher is going to get Grigson fired. Call it a hunch.

 

hence why ztboiler said:

 

At that point you come to the conclusion that you'd be giving up a player (Werner) who has been more productive than Jordan, who does fit in our scheme (just at a different position (SamLB) than initially hoped for (RushLB) )

 

 

does that help?

[Dustin]

hence why ztboiler said:

does that help?

Considering he still rushed 70% of passing downs, no.

[dgambill]

Like the 20th thread about trading for this pot head. We can do better.

 

Actually maybe it wasn't all pot but honestly the guy is on his 2nd hit....and hasn't played any quality ball. Lets give Werner a chance.

[Coffeedrinker]

What do you mean like the Jerry Hughes situation?  Are you suggesting the Colts trade someone who actually is a good football player and produces for his new team for a player that will be cut the following year?

[Jason_]

Considering he still rushed 70% of passing downs, no.

 

though that was without Mathis and before the signing of Cole.  Do you really expect the same thing this coming season?

[Dustin]

though that was without Mathis and before the signing of Cole. Do you really expect the same thing this coming season?

Yes. It's what edge rushers do.

[Jason_]

Yes. It's what edge rushers do.

 

then you completely missed ztboilers point ;)

[Dustin]

then you completely missed ztboilers point ;)

Werner sucks.

[Jason_]

Werner sucks.

 

well that wasn't his point at all mr. prolly just arguin

[krunk]

Now I wouldn't mind exploring a Werner for Damontre Moore swap if possible.