Pats tag kicker Gostkowski, not McCourty (merge)

[Andrew Luck's Beard]

Does this mean we have a chance of landing McCourty? If so, please, please, Grigs. Anyone who can cover.

[12isthenew18]

i hope but he's a patriot only one patriot ever during our beef has been moving from one too another and that's adam vinny

[amfootball]

Most feel with this move that the Pats have something in place with McCourty who has said he wants to remain with the Pats. We'll see. I hope so.

[Alexis Constantin]

Looks like the Pats tagged Stephen Gostkowsky and McCourty is hitting the market,right? Just wondering what kind of money is he asking for

[Chucklez]

The pats still might get a deal done with him before FA starts.

[Alexis Constantin]

But they are over the cap limit,right?do they have the money to keep a player of his caliber?

[Superman]

Looks like the Pats tagged Stephen Gostkowsky and McCourty is hitting the market,right? Just wondering what kind of money is he asking for

 

Your thread was moved and merged with a previously started thread. It's here in NFL General. Just FYI.

[amfootball]

But they are over the cap limit,right?do they have the money to keep a player of his caliber?

They will have the money if they reach a deal with Revis. It is his $20 mil that needs to come off for them to be able to sign other guys which is why I believe they most likely have deals in place with both McCourty and Revis otherwise they would have franchised McCourty.

[dw49]

They will have the money if they reach a deal with Revis. It is his $20 mil that needs to come off for them to be able to sign other guys which is why I believe they most likely have deals in place with both McCourty and Revis otherwise they would have franchised McCourty.

 

 

Or they could feel with a huge Revis contract and  a good sized Browner deal that too much would be spent on the secondary ? Very hard for us dummies to actually do the cap work on this kind of issue. I would guess that the odds would be around 55-45 that what you have is correct. So nothing , IMO, overwhelming

[Combsey]

i hope but he's a patriot only one patriot ever during our beef has been moving from one too another and that's adam vinny

Pretty sure got Butler from the pats

[amfootball]

Or they could feel with a huge Revis contract and  a good sized Browner deal that too much would be spent on the secondary ? Very hard for us dummies to actually do the cap work on this kind of issue. I would guess that the odds would be around 55-45 that what you have is correct. So nothing , IMO, overwhelming

Yes that is possible too. The other thing is they have other contracts to think about as well next year with Hightower and Jones although they could do the 5th year option on both. The issue with not signing McCourty is the safety FA market is thin with no one close to his caliber and the draft is thin as well. He has stated that he wants to retire a Patriot so I am hopeful they can come to an agreement. But you are right. Who knows what they will do. I can never understand the cap and all the ways contracts can be worked and manipulated. I am glad posters like you and Superman are here to help break some of that stuff down when contracts are signed.

[dw49]

Yes that is possible too. The other thing is they have other contracts to think about as well next year with Hightower and Jones although they could do the 5th year option on both. The issue with not signing McCourty is the safety FA market is thin with no one close to his caliber and the draft is thin as well. He has stated that he wants to retire a Patriot so I am hopeful they can come to an agreement. But you are right. Who knows what they will do. I can never understand the cap and all the ways contracts can be worked and manipulated. I am glad posters like you and Superman are here to help break some of that stuff down when contracts are signed.

 

Yeah all true and both Jones and Hightower would qualify for the lower 5th year options and that might work. It's also possible the Pats might do everything possible to keep their window wide open in 2015 and 2016. Then spend 2017 in cap purgatory  as Brady will probably be over the hill anyway. Way too hard to actually try to figure this stuff out.

[-JJ-]

Pretty sure got Butler from the pats

yeah and Dan Kleco

[amfootball]

Mike Reiss, Pats beat writer thinks the Pats will let McCourty test FA in the hopes of still signing him after he gets his offers but I think that is remote as there will be several teams to throw silly money at him IMO, http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4778594/thoughts-on-no-tag-for-devin-mccourty?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

 

FYI - Devin's brother Jason is lobbying hard for him to come to Tenn. where Jason plays CB ...

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Mike Reiss, Pats beat writer thinks the Pats will let McCourty test FA in the hopes of still signing him after he gets his offers but I think that is remote as there will be several teams to throw silly money at him IMO, http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4778594/thoughts-on-no-tag-for-devin-mccourty?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

 

FYI - Devin's brother Jason is lobbying hard for him to come to Tenn. where Jason plays CB ...

 

Mike Reiss, Pats beat writer thinks the Pats will let McCourty test FA in the hopes of still signing him after he gets his offers but I think that is remote as there will be several teams to throw silly money at him IMO, http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4778594/thoughts-on-no-tag-for-devin-mccourty?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

 

FYI - Devin's brother Jason is lobbying hard for him to come to Tenn. where Jason plays CB ...

 

Why franchise the kicker over the CB ?   

[-JJ-]

Why franchise the kicker over the CB ?   

That's was a question I was just about to ask.  If you want to keep a kicker wouldn't you just do a deal since they're on the low end of the pay scale.

 

They tagged Vinny too the first time.

 

The only way I see tagging a kicker is if he's up there in years and wants a long term deal.

[amfootball]

Why franchise the kicker over the CB ?   

The kicker is cheaper. They franchised Vinny twice. I think with McCourty they may be hopeful to get a longer term deal done this week or are willing to let him test FA in the hopes of him coming back to the team. I think the latter is risky but they probably don't want to pay top dollar for a safety when they will have to pay Revis. Also, not sure what they think of Harmon if he will be able to slide into the safety spot worst case scenario. He has shown some good skill in the little playing time he has had.

[Andrew Luck's Beard]

Why franchise the kicker over the CB ?

The cap hit of a franchised kicker vs. a franchiseed corner is tremendous. Unless they really, really want that corner to stay, most would tag the kicker instead, and try to work an actual deal out with the corner. Also, it's important to have a good kicker who you can count on in clutch situations. Most would take the extra million or two cap hit over the risk of losing in the playoffs because their kicker started freaking out. Just ask the Ravens and Billy Cundiff.

[12isthenew18]

http://nfltraderumors.co/devin-mccourty-says-he-hasnt-heard-much-from-patriots-could-be-playing-elsewhere-in-2015/

[loudnproudcolt]

Most feel with this move that the Pats have something in place with McCourty who has said he wants to remain with the Pats. We'll see. I hope so.

 

I thought the same thing about McCourty, they have a deal waiting, and on NFL Today, Dimitroff echoed those thoughts, plus McCourty has said he wants to stay. My thoughts as of tonight have changed, and I think they are going to let him explore FA. From the report below, it sounds like McCourty does not think or is questioning if he will be back, unless he wants to accept less money than he is going to be offered. Someone is going to offer him Byrd dollars like NO did last year. I would love to have him, but Searcy would be a lot cheaper. Either one I would love to get, but Searcy could be about 40% less.

 

Off note, I was stunned they tagged Gostkoski at 4.7M for a Kicker.

 

This was posted tonight!

 

March 2, 2015 9:22 pm

Patriots' Devin McCourty: There's a 'chance that I might not be back'

by Jason Butt | CBSSports.com

With the Patriots deciding to use their franchise tag on kicker Stephen Gostkowski, safety Devin McCourty knows his time in New England could be coming to an end. 

In an interview with ESPN's Josina Anderson, McCourty said he didn't have much information on what the Patriots would do and was going off of various media reports that came down to the organization deciding whether to franchise him or Gostkowski. 

Now that Gostkowski is ineligible from hitting the free agent market, McCourty will test the waters beginning on March 10. 

it's more realistic now that "I guess  [there's] a chance that I might not be back there," McCourty said. "Or there's still a chance that I will, but I guess [there's] more of a chance now with the franchise tag going to Steve that I could be playing in a different place. Still, keeping an open mind and trying to enjoy the process."

In 2014, McCourty recorded 68 tackles and two interceptions.

 

 

That is a big change from what the prevailing thoughts had been. They may be more worried about getting Revis done, because even taking away his 20M cap charge this year, and then renegotiating, you still only have 7M in cap space. Revis is going to want to be the top paid CB. His history says so. So you can look at least 14.5m/yr. which is just over Sherman and Peterson, and he is going to want same amount of guaranteed money they got, which was over 40M. Going to be tough for the Patriots, but I think this is there first concern!

[dw49]

The kicker is cheaper. They franchised Vinny twice. I think with McCourty they may be hopeful to get a longer term deal done this week or are willing to let him test FA in the hopes of him coming back to the team. I think the latter is risky but they probably don't want to pay top dollar for a safety when they will have to pay Revis. Also, not sure what they think of Harmon if he will be able to slide into the safety spot worst case scenario. He has shown some good skill in the little playing time he has had.

 

 

Sounds like the theory that they pretty much have a deal set with D.C. is down the toilet. Not saying it can't and won't get done but from what McCourtny has said , they are not even at square 1. I'm getting these strange visions ... when I close my eyes , I see a horseshoe on the side of his noggin.....

[amfootball]

Sounds like the theory that they pretty much have a deal set with D.C. is down the toilet. Not saying it can't and won't get done but from what McCourtny has said , they are not even at square 1. I'm getting these strange visions ... when I close my eyes , I see a horseshoe on the side of his noggin.....

Yeah, it would seem that way. I think Devin will have a lot suitors with the Colts going hard.

 

At this point I just want them to get Revis done as if he is not done then I don't think it matters all that much having Devin or not. The combo of Revis and Browner was tops in the league last year and the safeties were really an after thought in terms of having to help those guys. Even lousy Patrick Chung had a great year at SS and got himself an extension. I do like Harmon so we may have to see what he has got or maybe Bill has other ideas at the position.

 

My lasting hope is given how much Devin wants to stay in NE, this could turn out like Edelman last year where they let him test the market and then he comes back. One thing the Pats are good at is judging the value of players so they probably have his market tabbed right so it just depends if Devin wants to go for the silly money that some team will offer him, most likely a bottom feeder, or stay and get paid well in NE and continue to be part of the best secondary in the AFC.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I thank you for your answers fella's .

 

My hope is McCourty's & his agent & Ryan Grigson have great meeting my Colts are sitting pretty with money to spend McCourty & Suh would be some nice additions to the

[lollygagger8]

Why franchise the kicker over the CB ?   

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

 

 

    Your Incorrigible & LOL Funny ..

[Colts_Fan12]

Ik McCourty is good but I'd rather look at Moore and Searcy could cut ally get both for a lil more then McCourty

[amfootball]

As I have been thinking about the Pats potentially letting McCourty test FA and leave, I am wondering if they took a look at Seattle last year handing out those big deals to 3 of their 4 legion of boom guys and decided it may not be in the best interest of the team to have so much money tied up in the secondary. As much as today's game is predicated on stopping the pass, you need more than just a secondary as Brady proved in the SB surgically taking the Seattle defense apart in the fourth quarter because there was zero pass rush and the LoB just could not cover everyone. If you have Browner and Revis (assuming he signs) do you really need a 9 or 10 million dollar safety behind them? Would that money be better spent on the Dline for a pass rusher?

 

Thoughts?

[Dustin]

As I have been thinking about the Pats potentially letting McCourty test FA and leave, I am wondering if they took a look at Seattle last year handing out those big deals to 3 of their 4 legion of boom guys and decided it may not be in the best interest of the team to have so much money tied up in the secondary. As much as today's game is predicated on stopping the pass, you need more than just a secondary as Brady proved in the SB surgically taking the Seattle defense apart in the fourth quarter because there was zero pass rush and the LoB just could not cover everyone. If you have Browner and Revis (assuming he signs) do you really need a 9 or 10 million dollar safety behind them? Would that money be better spent on the Dline for a pass rusher?

 

Thoughts?

 

That would make sense if they actually had any money to sign a pass rusher with anyway. He's not getting signed because they can't afford him. That's pretty much the only reason. You're trying to make this something bigger than it actually is. They don't have the money to keep him. That's pretty much it. 

[amfootball]

That would make sense if they actually had any money to sign a pass rusher with anyway. He's not getting signed because they can't afford him. That's pretty much the only reason. You're trying to make this something bigger than it actually is. They don't have the money to keep him. That's pretty much it. 

?? They could have franchised him.

[GoPats]

As I have been thinking about the Pats potentially letting McCourty test FA and leave, I am wondering if they took a look at Seattle last year handing out those big deals to 3 of their 4 legion of boom guys and decided it may not be in the best interest of the team to have so much money tied up in the secondary. As much as today's game is predicated on stopping the pass, you need more than just a secondary as Brady proved in the SB surgically taking the Seattle defense apart in the fourth quarter because there was zero pass rush and the LoB just could not cover everyone. If you have Browner and Revis (assuming he signs) do you really need a 9 or 10 million dollar safety behind them? Would that money be better spent on the Dline for a pass rusher?

 

Thoughts?

 

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Patriots have put their "max value" on McCourty and the player's camp obviously declined whatever offer they put out there. So he's heading to FA. 

 

I'm not overly optimistic at this point. I think they would have gotten something done already if that's how it was going to go down. I know they love DMC, he's a captain, great locker room guy, etc. But I'm wondering if Belichick feels like he could plug Logan Ryan or someone else in back there and get the same results. McCourty's job was a lot easier in 2014 with Revis and Browner playing in front of him, and does it take a $10M/year guy to play center field?

 

In a perfect world they'd keep him, but you can't keep everyone. 

[Dustin]

?? They could have franchised him.

They could have but it was still too expensive.

[amfootball]

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Patriots have put their "max value" on McCourty and the player's camp obviously declined whatever offer they put out there. So he's heading to FA. 

 

I'm not overly optimistic at this point. I think they would have gotten something done already if that's how it was going to go down. I know they love DMC, he's a captain, great locker room guy, etc. But I'm wondering if Belichick feels like he could plug Logan Ryan or someone else in back there and get the same results. McCourty's job was a lot easier in 2014 with Revis and Browner playing in front of him, and does it take a $10M/year guy to play center field?

 

In a perfect world they'd keep him, but you can't keep everyone. 

Yeah. Pretty much my thoughts as well. You don't need $10 mil to play centerfield. And they need more pass rush.

[amfootball]

They could have but it was still too expensive.

No. They chose not to.

[Dustin]

No. They chose not to.

They chose not to because they can't afford him without other cuts.

[amfootball]

They chose not to because they can't afford him without other cuts.

No. They could have franchised him. They see his position and as GoPats said probably feel they can put someone else back there that is good enough with Browner and Revis as CBs. As with everything, it is about expense vs value and safety is not as critical as CB or pass rusher.

[jvan1973]

No. They could have franchised him. They see his position and as GoPats said probably feel they can put someone else back there that is good enough with Browner and Revis as CBs. As with everything, it is about expense vs value and safety is not as critical as CB or pass rusher.

actually, they couldn't have franchised him without cutting or restructuring contracts

[dgambill]

McCourty is a good safety...but he isn't Rodney Harrison. They will let the market set his rate and if it works for them he will come back...if not they will move on. We've seen Bill work with less talent. Revis is the big fish here and the one that really matters. Not that NE won't be SB contenders again without him but they certainly would have a TON of work to do if he leaves to bring that secondary back up to snuff. Having Revis cover the best wr and then let Browner beat up the other side with safety help over the top makes it really difficult on opposing offenses to find holes in that coverage. Its been years since NE has had an elite pass rush but they do a good job generating pressure through other means. IMO Revis is a bigger piece in the championship cog than McCourtey...but I'm not sure Revis is going to give them a discount.

[dgambill]

actually, they couldn't have franchised him without cutting or restructuring contracts

Yes...actually until they re-worked Revis contract it really limited them from doing anything with McCourtey. They could afford to franchise Gustowski and so they took care of that....the Revis deal is holding them up from getting McCourtey done...if they even want to do it. Once Revis is cut or they rework his contract then that will free up cap space to sign other guys. That huge holder on Revis's contract is what is holding them up. They are strapped until then. At this point it definately looks like Revis is interested in seeing his value on the open market unless Bill can work his magic to get him to come back for less.

 

All in all this Elway's fault.....had he not woken the sleeping giant NE would probably have kept working the system the way they always had.....they went big and took a couple of Bills guys and I think stirred him up into making some big moves...in came Revis and Browner and another SB followed.

[Superman]

as Brady proved in the SB surgically taking the Seattle defense apart in the fourth quarter because there was zero pass rush and the LoB just could not cover everyone.

 

You keep saying this, and I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it because Brady played great, but the Seahawks' secondary was a M.A.S.H. unit coming into the game, and got progressively worse as the game went on and more injuries came up. And their pass rush was hurt.

 

That result is not a referendum on the effectiveness of having a great secondary, or even paying them big money. And it's not the reason the Patriots haven't reached terms with Devin McCourty.

[amfootball]

You keep saying this, and I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it because Brady played great, but the Seahawks' secondary was a M.A.S.H. unit coming into the game, and got progressively worse as the game went on and more injuries came up. And their pass rush was hurt.

 

That result is not a referendum on the effectiveness of having a great secondary, or even paying them big money. And it's not the reason the Patriots haven't reached terms with Devin McCourty.

I completely disagree but what else is new? The Hawks defense looked great in the first half. No signs of injuries at all. But the Pats stayed patient and wore them down starting with the pass rush that was getting there in the first half but ran out of gas in the second half with the consistent passing game of the Pats. Losing Lane certainly hurt early but Brady spread the ball everywhere and to anyone he wanted to. He moved the ball at will as I suspected he would given the Hawks play a ton of cover 3 and cover 1 and do not mix up their looks. When Brady knows what is coming, he will take a defense apart the way he did in that game.