Re-thinking Colts' DL situation....

[NewColtsFan]

So,  RJF has been released.    And Redding may retire.

 

Yesterday I found a DL snap-count analysis which shows that last year the two top players we had for snap-counts were RJF and CR.

 

Redding was tops with 70% and RJF was 2nd at 60%

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/10797/colts-snap-count-analysis-defensive-line

 

Now,  that's somewhat misleading, because the plan all along was for Jones to be our #1 guy for snaps.    But his injuries made that impossible.   He wound up 4th just behind Chapman.

 

Ultimately,  my point is that we're not only going to have to invest a top-3 round pick on a DL,  but we're also going to have to sign a top quality DL as well.    We'll need new quality bodies and that's even if Redding decides to return.    He'll be a short-timer if he comes back.

 

So, when you're doing your homework in which college WR you want us to draft,  be sure to leave some time to check out the NFL FA list of DL's...      We're going to need one of those too!

 

Just sayin....

[12isthenew18]

As long as our first two draft picks are front seven and we attempt like jared odrick, fairley and others on fair not overpayed deals i'll be psyched

[bestQBever]

yeah pretty much.

[COLTS449]

Your definitely right NewColtsFan. We absolutely have to address the DL. Its now an even bigger weakness than it was. And it was a major weakness to start with. I think we'll sign a guy or two in free agency, then also draft a guy early. To me the best case scenario is Ngata and Redding, then draft a guy like Armstead or Phillips, depending on where we wanted Ngata to play. I think Grigs should look into Cedric Thornton as well. He's a RFA but it may be worth it. He's a pure run stopper, and we'd have Redding to get after the QB if he returns, but I definitely think we'll go after Nick Fairley btw.

[Superman]

He wound up 4th just behind Chapman.

 

To me, that's the biggest problem. Chapman can't play that many snaps. He averaged 23/game, for 19 games. Too many. 

 

The question is, how do we reduce his snap count? Use one of the other lineman, like Jones or Hughes? Or sign/draft another NT who can share his snaps, and maybe play another position also?

[DougDew]

Asking for info here. So what position did RJF actually play?

Was he counted on for pass rushing, like Redding, and shared snaps there, or was he suppose to rotate with Jones (and saw more snaps because of injury)

I'm just trying to figure out do the Colts sign more of a pass rusher or a run stopper to replace him? The DL didn't really excel at either. I'm thinking pass rusher...a smaller quicker type. Jones and the other guys on the roster are bigger.

And yes, somebody needs to spell Chapman.

[C0LT5]

As long as our first two draft picks are front seven and we attempt like jared odrick, fairley and others on fair not overpayed deals i'll be psyched

 

You won't be psyched, all free agency is over payed unless if it's a June signing.

[RealityIsLuck]

I'd like to sign a NT in FA, draft a DE early. Then get some depth most likely 1 late round pick, 1 cheap under the radar FA.

[COLTS449]

I'd like to sign a NT in FA, draft a DE early. Then get some depth most likely 1 late round pick, 1 cheap under the radar FA.

 

That would be a good plan IMO. Sign Terrence Knighton, then draft Armstead in the 1st, then also bring Redding back or maybe Henry Anderson or Marcus Hardison in the 3rd or 4th. I'm starting to really hope for Ngata since it seems it may actually be a possibility he'll get released now. 

[Superman]

Asking for info here. So what position did RJF actually play?

Was he counted on for pass rushing, like Redding, and shared snaps there, or was he suppose to rotate with Jones (and saw more snaps because of injury)

I'm just trying to figure out do the Colts sign more of a pass rusher or a run stopper to replace him? The DL didn't really excel at either. I'm thinking pass rusher...a smaller quicker type. Jones and the other guys on the roster are bigger.

And yes, somebody needs to spell Chapman.

 

We used him all over. His main position was technically DT, and he was supposed to be the 3-tech guy on the weakside. Penetrate and disrupt. He didn't do a whole lot of that, although it came in spots. He also gave up run gaps a lot. If you look at the back-breaking run from Blount in the 2013 playoffs, it's RJF's gap that allows the play to happen.

 

However, I'm fine with another 3-tech guy who can penetrate and disrupt. So long as he's better at containing the run. It's easier than it sounds, but that's why I like Nick Fairley at that spot. Good interior pass rusher who can also play straight up and control the line in the run game. 

 

I still don't think the DL is the major problem against the run. First, we don't get beat on the ground, except by the Pats; most of the time, the run defense up front is acceptable. And second, when you watch the Pats games, there's a lot of sloppy play and bad tackling. I still think it's an issue of coaching and execution. Better players will help, obviously, but they have to do the basics better. 

 

And lastly, the problems that come from Chapman being worn out can be addressed with a backup NT. Might mean we dress 6 DL on gameday. That's possible, if we can use a RB or WR as a returner.

[Boiler_Colt]

I'm in the sign one and draft at least one camp. IF Ngata is released,  its a no brainer to sign him, he can play Nose and DE. If not Ngata, sign Knighton as the NT and draft a DT to play RJF's role. I like Armstead or Malcom Brown but both of those guys could be gone. Carl Davis is a nice player, I'm just not sure he's a first round talent. We still have young bucks like Kerr, Hughes, and Quarles who could each make significant progress. Kerr played great in spurts but just hit a rookie wall IMO.

[Superman]

I'm starting to really hope for Ngata since it seems it may actually be a possibility now. 

 

Why does it seem like a possibility now?

[COLTS449]

Why does it seem like a possibility now?

 

A possibility that he's released. My bad. I read an article yesterday saying he's probably played his last game in Baltimore baring major progress.

[Superman]

A possibility that he's released. My bad. I read an article yesterday saying he's probably played his last game in Baltimore baring major progress.

 

Got it.

 

I think the Ravens will figure that out. He seems to me like the prototypical Raven for life.

[DougDew]

We used him all over. His main position was technically DT, and he was supposed to be the 3-tech guy on the weakside. Penetrate and disrupt. He didn't do a whole lot of that, although it came in spots. He also gave up run gaps a lot. If you look at the back-breaking run from Blount in the 2013 playoffs, it's RJF's gap that allows the play to happen.

 

However, I'm fine with another 3-tech guy who can penetrate and disrupt. So long as he's better at containing the run. It's easier than it sounds, but that's why I like Nick Fairley at that spot. Good interior pass rusher who can also play straight up and control the line in the run game. 

 

I still don't think the DL is the major problem against the run. First, we don't get beat on the ground, except by the Pats; most of the time, the run defense up front is acceptable. And second, when you watch the Pats games, there's a lot of sloppy play and bad tackling. I still think it's an issue of coaching and execution. Better players will help, obviously, but they have to do the basics better. 

 

And lastly, the problems that come from Chapman being worn out can be addressed with a backup NT. Might mean we dress 6 DL on gameday. That's possible, if we can use a RB or WR as a returner.

Yeah, I thought RJF was used everywhere, which is what prompted my question of what his real role was supposed to be. Jack of all trades master of none. I'd rather find a master of the 3-tech this offseason.

I think some of the NTs mentioned for possible FA signing would actually replace Chapman. I'm not sure that's necessary so I'd hesitate spending big bucks on some of the big name guys that play the nose. Ngata would command too much money for a part time player...So what would we do, when he wasn't playing the nose slide him over to take Jones' spot? Not sure I'd want that.

Would Ngata be the "nose" on the 4 DL alignment? That would probably work...but that's still a part time position, IMO.

[Superman]

Yeah, I thought RJF was used everywhere, which is what prompted my question of what his real role was supposed to be. Jack of all trades master of none. I'd rather find a master of the 3-tech this offseason.

I think some of the NTs mentioned for possible FA signing would actually replace Chapman. I'm not sure that's necessary so I'd hesitate spending big bucks on some of the big name guys that play the nose. Ngata would command too much money for a part time player...So what would we do, when he wasn't playing the nose slide him over to take Jones' spot? Not sure I'd want that.

Would Ngata be the "nose" on the 4 DL alignment? That would probably work...but that's still a part time position, IMO.

 

Ngata can play all three of our DL positions, better than anyone we've had. If he's available, I'd want him. Figure the rest out later on.

[Colts_Fan12]

To me, that's the biggest problem. Chapman can't play that many snaps. He averaged 23/game, for 19 games. Too many.

The question is, how do we reduce his snap count? Use one of the other lineman, like Jones or Hughes? Or sign/draft another NT who can share his snaps, and maybe play another position also?

who are the NT prospects you like? FA too?

[rock8591]

IMO Kendall Langford should be given a look. 6'6'' 315 lbs or so, ideal size for 3-4 DE. Released from the Rams due to salary cap reasons and a logjam on their DL.

[RealityIsLuck]

That would be a good plan IMO. Sign Terrence Knighton, then draft Armstead in the 1st, then also bring Redding back or maybe Henry Anderson or Marcus Hardison in the 3rd or 4th. I'm starting to really hope for Ngata since it seems it may actually be a possibility he'll get released now. 

Exactly my thought,

 

Something like

 

FA- One of: Williams, Knighton, or Harrison and one of: DeVito, Paea, Douzabal, Klug

 

Draft- Either Armstead in 1, Davis in 2 and then Anderson in 4, or some depth in 6.

 

Looks nice  

[Defjamz26]

Your definitely right NewColtsFan. We absolutely have to address the DL. Its now an even bigger weakness than it was. And it was a major weakness to start with. I think we'll sign a guy or two in free agency, then also draft a guy early. To me the best case scenario is Ngata and Redding, then draft a guy like Armstead or Phillips, depending on where we wanted Ngata to play. I think Grigs should look into Cedric Thornton as well. He's a RFA but it may be worth it. He's a pure run stopper, and we'd have Redding to get after the QB if he returns, but I definitely think we'll go after Nick Fairley btw.

 I'd take Dan Williams and let him start at NT. I like Carl Davis as a hybrid lineman. Can come in and start at DE, when he gets gassed you rotate Hughes, Kerr, and Quarles in. TBH Chapman has to go though...

[Jason_]

I'd take Dan Williams and let him start at NT. I like Carl Davis as a hybrid lineman. Can come in and start at DE, when he gets gassed you rotate Hughes, Kerr, and Quarles in. TBH Chapman has to go though...

There I'd absolutely no reason to cut Chapman. He's basically a 2nd year player going into year 3. Grigson talked about how most players go through the biggest jump from year 2 to 3...you hope they can make the jump in year 2 but not all do.

Just hearing him say that much tells me there's probably about a 1% chance of Chapman getting cut.

[Jason_]

We used him all over. His main position was technically DT, and he was supposed to be the 3-tech guy on the weakside. Penetrate and disrupt. He didn't do a whole lot of that, although it came in spots.

One of the rare times I'm going to have to disagree with you. Honestly I felt rjf was probably the most disruptive interior linemen in the passing game. Hus sack numbers weren't great but it seemed like he moved the qb off his spot more so than redding (who I'd say was probably a close second) or jones. Granted jones wasn't healthy all year and he was a far superior run stuffer, which was definitely more of a weakness for rjf.

[NewColtsFan]

So.....

 

How do people see McPhee?

 

Is he a pass rushing OLB? 

 

Or,  is he a pass rushing DE?

 

I'm asking to try and get a feel of where on a roster McPhee might fit?

[Superman]

One of the rare times I'm going to have to disagree with you. Honestly I felt rjf was probably the most disruptive interior linemen in the passing game. Hus sack numbers weren't great but it seemed like he moved the qb off his spot more so than redding (who I'd say was probably a close second) or jones. Granted jones wasn't healthy all year and he was a far superior run stuffer, which was definitely more of a weakness for rjf.

He'd be a nonfactor for long stretches. His pressures came in bunches.

[Jason_]

He'd be a nonfactor for long stretches. His pressures came in bunches.

Would you say the same for redding? Or did you consider redding to have been more consistently disruptive?

[Dustin]

So.....

How do people see McPhee?

Is he a pass rushing OLB?

Or, is he a pass rushing DE?

I'm asking to try and get a feel of where on a roster McPhee might fit?

Both.

[Gavin]

Kerr was having a solid year and showed he has plenty of talent but hit what appeared to be a wall and got gassed. Draft Jordan Phillip, Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown, Sign Adrian Clayborn if healthy

[NewColtsFan]

Kerr was having a solid year and showed he has plenty of talent but hit what appeared to be a wall and got gassed. Draft Jordan Phillip, Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown, Sign Adrian Clayborn if healthy

 

I'm not sure if Phillips, Goldman or Brown will still be on the board when we pick.   I'd be happy with an of the three of them.

 

As for Clayborn,  I'm not sure we can gamble here.   We're down two bodies who had some level of contribution.   Not sure we can gamble a spot at DL on a guy who (A) may not be a scheme fit and (B) has yet to show all that much.    Feels kinda boom or bust at a position where we can't go bust.

[TKnight24]

If we're gonna be signing former Ravens, why can't chuck get us some discounts on these guys??? Lol

[TKnight24]

Kerr was having a solid year and showed he has plenty of talent but hit what appeared to be a wall and got gassed. Draft Jordan Phillip, Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown, Sign Adrian Clayborn if healthy

Malcolm Brown & Quandre Diggs

[Gavin]

I'm not sure if Phillips, Goldman or Brown will still be on the board when we pick.   I'd be happy with an of the three of them.

 

As for Clayborn,  I'm not sure we can gamble here.   We're down two bodies who had some level of contribution.   Not sure we can gamble a spot at DL on a guy who (A) may not be a scheme fit and (B) has yet to show all that much.    Feels kinda boom or bust at a position where we can't go bust.

He has shown to be a solid D Lineman actually the 2 years he played a full season, Racking up 5.5 sacks in 2013 with 15 tfl's, 7 sacks in 2011, But forget the numbers, He can shed blocks well, has the agility and athleticism to chase down the ball carrier and read and react to them behind the LOS, He would not be forced to play every down...nor should he be coming off a season ending injury I think but the skill to play in our system is there......We play a multiple defense

[NewColtsFan]

He has shown to be a solid D Lineman actually the 2 years he played a full season, Racking up 5.5 sacks in 2013 with 15 tfl's, 7 sacks in 2011, But forget the numbers, He can shed blocks well, has the agility and athleticism to chase down the ball carrier and read and react to them behind the LOS, He would not be forced to play every down...nor should he be coming off a season ending injury I think but the skill to play in our system is there......We play a multiple defense

 

Thanks.   I didn't realize he had such good numbers in two different seasons.   Good to know.

[HtownColt]

So.....

How do people see McPhee?

Is he a pass rushing OLB?

Or, is he a pass rushing DE?

I'm asking to try and get a feel of where on a roster McPhee might fit?

He played DE when Pagano was in Baltimore

@ColtsAuth_Kyle: Still kind of meh on McPhee, but he had seven sacks, six hits and 21 hurries in just 389 snaps as a tackle when Pagano coached him in 2011.

[AntonMcG]

Zach Kerr has plenty of potential, don't count him out.

[TKnight24]

He played DE when Pagano was in Baltimore

@ColtsAuth_Kyle: Still kind of meh on McPhee, but he had seven sacks, six hits and 21 hurries in just 389 snaps as a tackle when Pagano coached him in 2011.

Pay that man!

[DougDew]

Kerr was having a solid year and showed he has plenty of talent but hit what appeared to be a wall and got gassed. Draft Jordan Phillip, Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown, Sign Adrian Clayborn if healthy

With the high number of decent vet FA Dlineman available this year, I can't see Grigs NOT filling the DL hole with one of them.  So unless a real college stud DL falls to us at 29, I don't see why we'd want to draft one at all.  Getting a developmental DLineman in the middle of the draft isn't going to really provide much more help that what we already have in Kerr and Hughes.  As you noted, Kerr did well until he hit the rookie wall.  I think we sign a vet FA DLineman and, unless there is inescapable value at one of the picks, pass on drafting one this year (we drafted (or UDFA) one each of the past three years).

[Superman]

So.....

 

How do people see McPhee?

 

Is he a pass rushing OLB? 

 

Or,  is he a pass rushing DE?

 

I'm asking to try and get a feel of where on a roster McPhee might fit?

 

Both.

 

Plus an edge setter. And he can play inside in passing situations.

[Superman]

Would you say the same for redding? Or did you consider redding to have been more consistently disruptive?

 

Redding had his spots as well. Too many snaps, I think. But he also played the 5-tech more often, and I think he was doubled more.

[Valpo2004]

I'm not sure if Phillips, Goldman or Brown will still be on the board when we pick.   I'd be happy with an of the three of them.

 

As for Clayborn,  I'm not sure we can gamble here.   We're down two bodies who had some level of contribution.   Not sure we can gamble a spot at DL on a guy who (A) may not be a scheme fit and (B) has yet to show all that much.    Feels kinda boom or bust at a position where we can't go bust.

 

As an Iowa fan I can say I really really don't think Adrian Clayborn would fit our scheme.  I think he's a 4-3 only guy really.  

[rock8591]

In addition to possibly drafting Armstead - Phillips - Shelton - Goldman....(one of those)

IMO we sign also one of these (Knighton - Dan Williams) as well as one of these (Kendall Langford - Chris Canty, latter more realistic).

 

That will give us a lineup of something like this next season:

 

DE: Armstead, Redding, Kelcy Quarles (PS)

NT: Knighton, Chapman, Kerr

DE: Jones, Canty